endurance races

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Touring Mars
I think the best we can hope for is Nurburgring 300km.... if you dig through the screen shots, you'll find one of a Skyline at the Nurb on lap 5/15... hence, 300 km... this, of course, could just be the normal 'Professional League' race at the Nurburgring :) , but something tells me it will probably be the enduro... on the other hand, the screenshot is also from B-Spec mode, so who is to say that we won't be able to make the races as long as we want...? :dopey:
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Tailoring race length to the time one has available would be a godsend. It could be successfully implemented in the non-sim mode or when the player has completed the game. Mmm…Suzuka 8 hour for cars.
 
Do you race?
Ooooh yeah, I forgot about Apricot Hill 💡 ... I'd make that a touring car-only event so that you can only race certain cars from the British BTCC, Australian V8, Japanese JGTC (but only GT350), American NASCAR and German DTM series (can't think of number 6). It would be great sort of "King of the Touring Cars" Event, one car from each of the six series - around the ultimate driver's track: Apricot Hill! :sly:
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Does anybody know if Apricot Hill will be GT4, i haven't seen or heard anything about it. :grumpy:
 
Even if Le Mans was in the game, I wouldn't want a 24 hour race. 2 is about as much as I would like. The reason being there are only 5 cars to race against, and they are very poor AI! It would end up being a test run.

The only solution to the AI rubbishness in endurance races is to run a really weak powered car, and it just feels silly as they rip past you down the straights, and you catch them up in the corners. It just feels so wrong!

Personally I couldn't care less about 24 hour races, I just want adjustable AI difficulty!
 
Definetelly, a longer endurance with more cars (16+) and a smater AI would be the best thing. Would be better yet if they had restrictions, so you either have to use a car no more powerfull than the AI OR the AI places cars that are equally powered as the one you are driving... Actual endurance races are lame, you race alone, don't care about the AI, and always win (if you are not driving a Vitz, of course...)! :D just my 2¢
 
F310B
Even if Le Mans was in the game, I wouldn't want a 24 hour race. 2 is about as much as I would like. The reason being there are only 5 cars to race against, and they are very poor AI! It would end up being a test run.

The only solution to the AI rubbishness in endurance races is to run a really weak powered car, and it just feels silly as they rip past you down the straights, and you catch them up in the corners. It just feels so wrong!

Personally I couldn't care less about 24 hour races, I just want adjustable AI difficulty!
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For gt4 to provide a challenge for all players, the game system must be able to be tailored by the individual. Hence once you have completed the game, or a certain percentage of the game, the player should be given the option to choose and modify AI opponent cars. If you find that you are winning too easily, simply up the mechanical spec of the AI opponents. You could also choose AI opponents from cars that you have created in your garage. This option would allow for nail biting endurance racing for all...
 
I've recently come to enjoy longer races, like the 2 hour enduros in GT3. Still finding 2 hours to play them is tough.

I prefer the lap count ones, like the 78 laps as Monaco or 50 laps on SS11 over the 2 hour ones, but could live with either.

The option I want is to be able to save in the pits, regardless of the length of the race. That would open up to 2hour+ races. 2 hour races really aren't endurance races anyway, just standard GPs. A 4 hour or even 6 hour enduro would be interesting, but only if you could save in the pits. It is hard enough finding 2 hours to play, let alone 6.

I could see a 4-6 hour enduro at Nurburgring as amazing, or a 4 hour at Suzuka.
 
I like the enduros, but I'm a glutton for punishment...

Just as long as I'm pretty much guaranteed to finish first, I'll be happy to race some enduros in GT4. I would hate to lose in an endurance race though. Thankfully, it hasn't happened in a GT game yet.
 
How about, now that gt4 has the b-spec mode, when you pit the comp takes over until it pits, then you take control again.

My favourite endurance race was the 30 laps trial mountain endurance race in gt2 which had a hp limit of 295. Driving a stock challanger (except for the gearbox, since it only had 3 gears) meant you finished on the same lap as some of the faster cars and had the chance of losing if you messed up.
 
Yeah, I hated picking a car just shy of the horsepower limit and racing against other cars but caning them by 22 Laps around Apricot Hil in GT2 ...
 
Samberto
For gt4 to provide a challenge for all players, the game system must be able to be tailored by the individual. Hence once you have completed the game, or a certain percentage of the game, the player should be given the option to choose and modify AI opponent cars. If you find that you are winning too easily, simply up the mechanical spec of the AI opponents. You could also choose AI opponents from cars that you have created in your garage. This option would allow for nail biting endurance racing for all...
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I agree with this. Personally, I like endurance races, and I'd like them to be longer, but as someone said earlier, it's difficult to find time for them.

With better AI, I'm sure we'll all be happy with the game.
 
Maybe a C-Spec mode? You program the opposition at the beginning of the race, choose your laps and course and the restrictions for the cars and then race against them?

But I don't want long enduros ... these are the best types:
1) 2 Hours = Good
2) Lap-based = Good
3) Restrictions = Good

Anything else (eg more than 2 Hours) and it just gets tedious and I can't play for any more then about 2 and a half.
 
The standard mx5 race in gt3 was good, since you knew what competition you were up against, more standard races like this would be welcome in gt4, like a standard pre 1970 endurance race.
 
Yeah, like a 90's Enduro at New Fuji and an 80's Enduro at Old Fuji.
 
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"I don't seem to gain any enjoyment whatsoever from endurance races. They just drag out on and on, requiring no skill at all. It's hardly fun to already be in the lead at lap 10, and know you have another 80 laps of boring monotony to go through before you can move on..." -LethalChem; August 18th, 2004

I'd like to address a certain situation. I often hear and read the deal that endurance races can be a drag. I know how you feel about it, and it's okay to feel that way. I'm not saying that you're pathetic for not wanting to do endurance races. As a GT veteran, I've been used to taking some time out of my life and race an endurance. So I'm not really bothered. And when it comes to endurance races, I'm more sane and realistic with endurances. Endurance races don't have to be for masochists. They can be fun, exciting, challenging, but nonetheless a way to prove that you can not only play the game of Gran Turismo, but also react to real-life conditions because after all, real racing isn't 3 and 5 lap sprints. So kind of think of these endurances as... you know. A test to see if you can react to real-life type situations in racing. You won't have damage or certain common issues in GT4, but at least you'll be treated to a bigtime challenge. This is the way I think of endurances. You don't have to feel the same way. But my suggestion is that there has to be some sort of learning curve because these endurances won't appeal to every gamer. Fear not, though. Your saving grace may be in the form of B-Spec Mode.

In a future post, I'll talk about what tracks may feature endurances and for how long a distance. Until then, I've spoken up.
 
Entirely ironic that "Endurance Races" in GT4 are actually of a similar lenght to real life races ...

So, John, where do you want to hold an endurance race???
 
Yes, but real life opponents are somewhat more skilled than the GT AI! One problem is that the solution of racing an under-powered car against the AI does not work in many situations. Like, what if you want to race a Toyota GT-ONE? Even with no tuning or setup, you will still cane the computer cars while eating a ham sandwich.
 
Well AI is meant to be better this time round, but will it be quick enough to challenge the quickest GT player???

If it is how does this bode for the slower drivers??? How can they complete the game 100% then???

Should there be some kind of pre-qualifying for races, and dependant on your lap times and/or the potential of your car decides on what opposition AI strength you get...

Or conversely some kind of system that AI is stronger the higher your win percentage is...
 
They should have different difficulty settings which determine the driver AI skill. Other games have this, why not GT4?

The easiest would be like running wide at every corner (wait they do that already in GT3) and the hardest would be turning in gold-license lap times consistently.
 
Okay. As promised, I'd come up with my guesses as to how endurance racing will go including what endurances as well as any stipulations thereforth. I predict that GT4 will include no less than 5 endurances and no more than 10. And when I speak of endurances, I don't mean one-off endurances (for example: "Like the Wind" and the Formula GT race at Monte Carlo). Here are what I predict would be endurance choices as well as the length of time or laps it may use up.

+ New York City: (at least 90 minutes/1:30:00). No limitations
+ Nurburgring Nords.: (at most 120 minutes/2:00:00). MAY have a "no LMP, F1" car deal
+ Sears Point (at least 105 minutes/1:45:00). Race types may vary from no Normal Cars to only American cars. It is also possible to feature compacts and tuned sedans and hatchbacks with no more than 400hp. This situation would last at most 1hr.
+ Hong Kong: (no more than 120 minutes/2:00:00) Action may feature JGTC race cars like the Tokyo Endurance in GT3. The action should be as intense as the Tokyo race. Who says you can't bring Japanese action to Hong Kong?
+ Opera Paris (at least 110 minutes/1:50:00). Action may range from No Limitations to normal, tuned, or racing cars.
+ Fuji (no more than 120 minutes/2:00:00). Action will range between JGTC race cars to touring cars to sportscars.
+ Suzuka Circuit (no more than 90 minutes/1:30:00) Action includes either JGTC race cars or sportscars and may feature a special F1-type endurance.
+ Grand Valley (no less than 120 minutes/2:00:00). Veteran GT racers know what they are getting out of this deal. If the rumor of dynamic time changes come about, a "Grand Valley 500km" would be an interesting experience for sportscar racing here.
+ El Capitan (no more than 120 minutes/2:00:00) This new track will suit tuned cars as well as pure racing machines. Regulations may allow for only race cars, tuned cars, or any available sports cars.
+ Tsukuba (no more than ???/?:??:??) Race length will range from a 50-lap or 100-lap time trial. It will be a unique endurance in which you win on best time, rather than position.

These are my predictions of how GT4 endurances will go. That is all. Carry on.
 
Nice list, John, but I think Georges V Paris or Costa di Amalfi would be a better choice for a time-based enduro instead of Tsukuba.
 
Tsukuba with anything with a little power is under 60secs per lap, and that would get tedious for anything more than an hour... Monaco hopefully will be the shortest lap of anything used.

Nothing longer than two hours??? That's when I'm still in the zone. I don't think there'll be anything longer than 3hrs, but hopefully they'll stretch to 4hrs, I'd love it if one went to 6, and that'd have to be the Nurb of the tracks we know of.

Before you go no-way! 6hrs!!! There would have to be a save function in the pits.

As always there's two sides to the story, some want more & longer endurances and some don't like them, and PD tries it's best to satisfy both groups.

I personally would hate to try to complete an endurance in 3-4(+) different stints, as you would have no rythym at the start of each stint, and would be in the zone when you want to save!!!
 
A endurance race of aprox. 2 hours is enough....Grandvalley with Castrol Supra...GT2..........that's the best endurance i've ever raced!!! Propably because of the variety of the track, the castrol Supra and the opponents.
 
Generally, winning endurance racings in GT1, GT2 and GT3 is too easy.
I'd rather have an 1 hour frentic endurance race where cars are a lot closely matched like in REAL life. I'll always remmber Le Mans ( 67 or 69 ) when after 24 hours Ickx-Oliver won by a 10 meters or less margin.
For example, a Supra endurance race where the power difference would be like 3 or 5 % from one car to the other and distributed randomly amongst the random AI drivers. Sometime your car would be the best, sometime the less powerful then you shoud have to compensate that by a better pit strategy.
 
Ahhh, Pit Strategy, the lifeblood of Endurance Races! Or not - has anyone else completed the Trial Mountain 30 Laps (GT1 or 2) without a single stop? I did it yesterday in an RX-7 GT-C with Hard tyres and caned the opposition by three and four laps. :sly:

Mind you, my tyres were shot by the end. :ouch:
 
If they have full fields in all races I would like to see a rally enduro. Come on, think of it, 8+cars sliding sideways for 2 hours.
 
I thought it was only six cars per race ... or am I missing something here!?
 
Do you race?, xcsti is a 'GTP Fanatic' ;) and he was just getting carried away. As far as everyone is aware '6' cars will still be the norm.
 
Damn, man... to my hometown Houston Astros, you played a hell of a season and did a great job at least getting the NL Wild Card. While I don't follow baseball, still a shame. (sarcastic voice) Yet still, Houston's one of the Top 10 most tortured sports cities. That's alright. NBA starts up soon, the University of Houston Cougars are probably going to try their best at basketball as their football team may not even get a Bowl Game bid, and the Houston Texans are having a very good season. So, uh... SOMEBODY win for Houston!

Despite seeing another of my hometown teams lose, let's get back to business. When I was giving out my predictions, note that for Grand Valley, I typed "no LESS THAN 120 minutes." In other words, the race could last longer than 120 minutes, or two hours. And I gave rather shorter times because I have two beliefs to the endurance racing deal. The first is simple- longer races put bigger emphasis on endurance, making them more of long-distance challenges than glorified sprints. The second side of this is based on personal interest. The second issue I'm discussing relates to the fact that not a lot of people can do the Tokyo R246 endurance as I have (2 hours; 45 minutes at least). So my best guess is that if you don't have a lot of time with endurances, it's best to have endurances that you can actually work with. Remember now, even though a lot of us are GT veterans, GT4 will bring in plenty of newcomers, and you don't want to give a newcomer a race he or she can't handle within a relatively short timeframe. So this is why I gave some shorter time distances.
 
Do you race?
.... and caned the opposition by three and four laps. :sly:

Mind you, my tyres were shot by the end. :ouch:
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Your sentence resume the main complaint I have against the endurance races in the GT serie: most races are not fun because of the high power difference in the lineup
 
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