European Events

Discussion in 'GT4 Events' started by daan, Oct 20, 2006.

  1. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

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    1000 miles! at La Sarthe - for 200 A-spec points

    Using my red Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Speciale '63, I have won at La Sarthe for 200 points! This is the same car that I mention above that I used to win 190 points.

    The competition was as follows (a lineup that Austin343 noted):

    Nissan Fairlady 2000 SR311 '68
    Lotus Elan S1 '62
    Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GTA 1600 '65
    Ginetta G4 '64
    Mini Marcos GT '70

    My Alfa GSS had 114HP and I added 91kg of ballast to get to the 200 point tune. With all non-point upgrades and on N1/N3 tires. The suspension is tweeked to my satisfaction. And the transmission is set so the top speed reaches 125mph (it reaches 135mph in a draft).

    From the start I use one bar of NOS to take the lead from the Nissan Fairlady and then block the Fairlady, Ginetta and Alfa GTA down the Mulsanne straight. I let the Fairlady get by just before the Mulsanne corner so I can punt the Fairlady into the sand.:guilty: I then block the Ginetta down into Indianapolis and Arnage. The Fairlady and the Ginetta get by me in the Porsche curves, but I retake the lead by cutting the Ford chicanes while watching the Ginetta cross the Ford chicanes at a perpendicular angle.:dunce: I now have a 2 second lead over the Fairlady starting lap 2.

    For the next 6 laps, I block the Fairlady and the Ginetta down the Mulsanne straight and dump the Fairlady into the sand trap at the Mulsanne corner (to give me breathing room going into Indianapolis). On lap 7 the Ginetta blows the Porsche curves and drops back, never to challenge me again. On laps 8, 9, and 10, I just have to block the Fairlady down the Mulsanne straight. During these first 10 laps, my lead at the start/finish line is never more than 5 seconds.

    On lap 11 the Fairlady blows the Porsche curves and drops back so I have a 18 second lead at the start/finish line at the end of lap 11. This lead drops to 10 seconds at the end of lap 12, 5 seconds at the end of lap 13, and 2 seconds at the end of lap 14.

    On lap 15 I pit my Alfa GSS to take on N2/N3 tires and fuel. Followed closely by the Nissan Fairlady, who is 10 seconds back (running slowly on worn tires).

    My Alfa GSS comes alive with the N2/N3 tires and I start to enjoy the race.

    The Nissan Fairlady takes three laps to catch back up with me, so by the end of lap 18, I once again have only a 5 second lead at the start/finish line. So during the next 7 laps, I once again battle the Fairlady every lap, and usually punt it into the sand at Mulsanne corner.

    During lap 19 I lap the Mini Marcos going thru the Dunlap curves at the top of the hill. The Alfa GTA pits on lap 20. During lap 23 I lap the Ginetta who is having problems with the Ford chicanes again. The Ginetta pits on lap 26.

    On lap 26, the Fairlady struggles somewhere, and I pull out a 15 second lead at the end of the lap. This lead falls to 10 seconds at the end of lap 27, and to 7 seconds at the end of lap 28, and once again I am battling the Fairlady on laps 28 and 29.

    On lap 30, the Fairlady pits for a second time, and I have a 20 second lead at the start/finish line as I begin my lap 31. During lap 31 my lead ballons to 50 seconds due to the Fairlady's pit stop.

    I decide to use some NOS on lap 32, so I turn my best lap of the race which was a 5.10.743!

    On lap 33 I lap the Mini Marcos for a second time in Tertre Rouge.

    On lap 34 I lap the Alfa GTA going thru the Dunlop curves.

    The race challenged Marcos:dunce: pits again on lap 35.

    I finish the race with a 57 second lead over the Nissan Fairlady!!

    Total race time was 3.06.608

    I did not catch the Lotus Elan (the 3rd place car), who is about 15 seconds ahead of me on the track (I did catch and lap the Elan when I was using the 190 point tune mentioned in my earlier post above).

    Quite a decent race, even if it entailed a significant amount of blocking. Though, once the switch to N2 tires is made, you can just about run laps as fast as the Fairlady. I only had to use about half my NOS during the race.

    Respectfully,
    GTsail290
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2009
  2. jbrennen

    jbrennen

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    Quoting ANK from the old 200pt thread...

    Just wanted to offer some clarification, since this was short on details.

    This works against NTSC lineup #1. :)

    The races at Opera, Grand Valley, and Cote d'Azur are easy; you can qualify on pole and win each race easily without any nitrous, and nothing but clean driving.

    For La Sarthe, I used the nitrous and shortcutted some chicanes; this was probably overkill, as I won by about 8 seconds. If you don't use nitrous and don't shortcut, you might be able to win, but you'd be blocking actively all the way down the Mulsanne straight. (Or you could punt the SLR and/or the Cizeta into the sand somewhere I guess...)

    For the 'Ring, I similarly used the nitrous and some shady driving (grasscutting, wallriding). It might be possible to win it cleanly with just a little bit of blocking, but by my fourth attempt, I just wanted to get it over with. :) I ended up winning by about 4 seconds. I basically rationed the nitrous out to use a little bit on each of the three lengthy wide-open-throttle sections of the 'Ring. That helped to keep the McLaren SLR far enough behind that I never had to drive defensively.

    I had all of the standard DT/SU upgrades, and I did tweak the gearing quite a bit. Standard transmission trick, final ratio ranged from I think 3.250 at La Sarthe to 4.400 at Cote.
     
  3. jbrennen

    jbrennen

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    I did this as well, assuming that NTSC lineup #2 is the same as PAL lineup #2... Not sure if that's the case.

    Anyway, I swept it for 200 points each, but the race at Grand Valley Reverse was anything but uneventful. This was the only race of the championship with a standing start. The underpowered front-drive 106 Rallye is at a severe disadvantage from a standing start, and the Hommell Berlinette is pretty quick at GVR anyway, and although it might be winnable in a straightforward race, I actually had to "cheat" slightly to make this easier.

    What I did at GVR was to basically harass the Berlinette for his entire qualifying lap and made sure that his first hot lap was slow, then ran a quick nitrous-aided lap myself to qualify on pole before he could finish his second hot lap. This resulted in putting me #1 on the grid and the Berlinette #6. This gave me a lap of relative peace before the Berlinette was knocking on my rear bumper; he worked through traffic and up to P2 at the end of the first lap, and was closing in fast going into Turn 1 on the second lap. However, between blocking and nitrous and some pretty aggressive fender-rubbing, trading P1 and P2 a couple of times, I was just able to beat him to the finish line for the win.

    So, 1000 points down for the Tous France Championnat. :tup:
     
  4. Austin343

    Austin343

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    Although I haven't actually begun the championship yet, the 110S is definitely able to win cleanly at Nurburgring in 1000 Miles. As it turns out, the "magic lineup" that I mentioned above and that GTsail used at La Sarthe in the Giulia does appear, and is only the thirty-fourth NTSC lineup. N1 tires and 155 kilograms of ballast (at -15 to mitigate oversteer) let it earn 200 points, while switching to N3s after the first lap gives it the pace required to beat the Elan and the Fairlady. As with the Isuzu, I only replaced the drivetrain components, so the naturally oversteering car is beset with a tire life of only three laps, but can set 9'10 lap times. I'm somewhat unsure of how successful it will be at Opera and at Cote d'Azur, where the Elan is unaffected by its mediocre straight-line speed and needs only one pit stop, but I'll investigate that after winning at Nurburgring.
     
  5. jbrennen

    jbrennen

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    330
    Agree, I followed Dotini's setup and your lineup and beat this thing for 200 pts each.

    I would disagree that you need to "conserve" nitrous anywhere but the 'Ring. :) These are 1 and 2 lap races in a 60+ HP car; it just doesn't eat nitrous fast enough to worry about it. I was able to run nitrous @ 100 at every track and except for the 'Ring, you can pretty much use the nitrous anywhere that you're under full throttle and if you run out at all, it'll be right near the finish of the race (at which point you should have at least a couple of seconds lead if you've been juicing most of the way).


    At the 'Ring, I ran nitrous @100 and I passed the Mercedes very early on (maybe 30 seconds into the lap). After that, I was able to conserve nitrous well enough and block well enough to have 4 bars of nitrous left heading into the long straight near the end. Even with 4 bars left @ 100, the Mercedes made the final sprint a little uncomfortable and he was basically side by side with me as we came under the bridge, and I ended up grass-cutting the twisties just before the pit entrance; I think the MOV was about 4 seconds when all was said and done.


    Still, nice combination of setup and lineup. The other races besides the 'Ring were laughably easy. :)
     
  6. Tetraeder

    Tetraeder

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    47
    DTM Opera and Nürburgring for 200 points each.

    Using the AMG 190 EVO Touring Car with the following settings: 345 hp, R3/R3, Downforce 34/49, ballast 115, Nos @ 20 for Opera and 25 for NR, Tranny trick final 5,50 for Opera and 3,85 for NR. At Opera this is a little too short for the straight but it has the benefit to be faster on the rest of the track.

    I ran without qualifying against PAL lineup #4 with the other 190 on pole and the CLK on #2. At Opera you have to get past the CLK before he passes the 190. So I was in second after the first round and in the lead shortly afterwards. After that its just fun to drive that car with R3´s on that track. MOV 12,5 sec.

    Same tactics for NR. Get in the lead asap and save some NOS for the final straight. Fun stuff :)
     
  7. Austin343

    Austin343

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    I completed the Nurburgring race in 1000 Miles! more successfully than I anticipated.

    1. Mazda 110S (L10A) '67: Low mileage (prize car, not used car), N1 tires (switch to N3 on lap 1), 155 ballast at -15, fully customizable transmission (autoset 7), triple plate clutch, racing flywheel. Race time 3:53'52.012, fastest lap 9'06.563, pits on laps 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 19, 22
    2. Lotus Elan S1 '62: +3'00, pits on lap 14
    3. Nissan Fairlady 2000 (SR311) '68: +3'30, pits on laps 6, 12, 18, 24
    4. Ginetta G4 '64: +8'00, pits on laps 9, 18, 24 (:confused:)
    5. Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GTA 1600 '65: +8'00, pits on laps 8, 16, 24
    6. Mini Marcos GT '70: +1 lap, pits on laps 6, 12, 18 (not 24 because I had already lapped it and lap 24 became its last of the race)

    I thought that this race would be quite a bit closer than it eventually was. Part of the cause was that the Fairlady, which (as happens to all AI cars) drives more aggressively because it starts in first place, wore its rear tires more quickly and thus had more problems spinning when trying to pit. What made the bigger difference, though, was the surprising amount of extra speed given to me by a near-empty fuel tank; at the beginning, my fastest laps were in the 9'15 range, while later, I had the capability to set, but never succeeded in completing, a 9'05 lap. As you can see, there is a price to pay for fast pace: my tire life was abysmal, as even setting the ballast further forward to moderate oversteer couldn't solve the three-lap lifespan of the rear tires. As for cleanliness, I probably put three wheels off of the track once per two laps, which doesn't sound very good, but the laps do last for nine minutes each. I only had one moment of contact with a wall or an AI car, when I had just passed the Elan and tried to use the "look back" button (L1) but instead pressed downshift (L2); obviously, that slowed me quite a lot, and the Elan maintained its speed and line and hit me. :ouch: It wasn't a very hard hit, but I was hoping for a contact-free race. Now that I know that I could have gone significantly more slowly and still won, I wish that I had made more of an effort to keep the car always on the track.

    Clearly, at least for NTSC players, this (#34) is the "magic lineup." The cars are very evenly matched not only in pace but also in A-Spec points. The comfortable winning margin that I enjoyed means that even with such poor tire life, lap times averaging around 9'18 will suffice to win the race. That allows for the possibility that several other cars, such as the Alfa Romeo Spider Duetto, could win in similarly clean style. What remains to be seen is whether or not the success in this race will transfer to Cote d'Azur or Opera, where preliminary calculations indicate that the results will be very close.
     
  8. Open Addict

    Open Addict Premium

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    Very nice find there Austin, this could almost be a Championship Cup contender. I wonder how far in the line-up hunt us PAL users would need to get to?
     
  9. Austin343

    Austin343

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    In all probability, PAL users would not get this lineup. I imagine that a fairly similar one would appear eventually (perhaps after a couple hundred enter/exits :scared:), but at least for the first three races, there is no lineup better than this one for this approximate A-Spec value. Only by going much lower (e.g. Fiat, Sports 800, Skyline 2000 GT-B, S800, Bellet) or much higher (e.g. Corvette, Jaguar, Mercedes, Ginetta, Elan) could you have a lineup that is potentially easier to beat. And even these "ideal" lineups don't work at La Sarthe, where you really need something entirely different. Certainly, the Fairlady would leave the 110S in the dust, and I don't think that any 200-point car can compete with the top speed of, say, the Jaguar.
     
  10. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

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    A Big Congratulations from me Austin343 on proposing this car and track combination and winning easily with it.:tup:

    I have followed in your footsteps and taken down your "magic lineup" as well at Nurburgring.

    Sadly, I did not closely follow your footsteps, but finished far in arears! My finishing time was over 2 minutes behind yours.:grumpy:

    However, I can confirm that your lineup with the Lotus Elan and the Nissan Fairlady is an excellant lineup. The Lotus and the Fairlady are pretty evenly matched and give great points when combined with the Ginetta G4.

    I got out my Mazda 110S with 111HP and stuffed 155kg of ballast in the engine bay. I can post my suspension settings later if anyone wants them.

    I started the race on N1/N3 tires and switched to N3/N3 tires at the end of lap 1 when I pitted from second place. I exited the pits in last place, 41 seconds behind the Ginetta. I passed the Alfa Sprint GTA on lap 2 at Aremburg. I passed the Mini Marcos GT on lap 2 as well going thru Adenaur Forst. I passed the Lotus Elan and took over 3rd place on lap 5. Also on lap 5 the Nissan Fairlady passes the Ginetta G4 and takes over the lead of the race when the Ginetta takes to the beach in the Aremburg turn.

    The Nissan Fairlady pits on lap 6 followed closely by myself for my second pit stop (I'm about 14 seconds back). I chase the Fairlady for the next six laps, and catch the Fairlady on lap 12 in the final esses before the pit entrance and take over the lead of the race as we both enter the pits. The Lotus Elan passes us both while we are conferring on race strategy in the pits.

    I catch the Lotus on lap 14 going down the long straight and take over the lead of the race.:) The Lotus takes this as a sign, and drives into the pits for its one and only pit stop. The Fairlady takes second place back from the Lotus, and is about 20 seconds behind me as I begin lap 15.

    On lap 18, I pit for a third time with a 30 second lead over the Fairlady, who also pits on lap 18. I just cruise for the next 6 laps wondering if I can stretch my tires for 7 laps.

    On lap 24 the tires are starting to turn light orange about half way thru the lap, and I decide that safety is better, so I pit a final time at the end of lap 24 and take on new tires and a splash of fuel that only needs to last one lap. The Fairlady also pits on lap 24, and gives second place back to the Lotus Elan. My final winning margin was 47 seconds. My best lap was a 9.14.469 and it was aided by a draft behind the Lotus on lap 14. The Fairlady finished third, and was about 12-15 seconds behind the Lotus. I did not catch the last place Mini Marcos, who was about 30 seconds ahead of me on the track.

    Austin343 mentions burning up his tires, and having to pit every three laps. I did not have this problem since my lap times were significantly slower than his. I did have to pit after 5 laps on my second stop (lap six) since the tires were starting to go (and I had been running with a full fuel load), but after that my tires were lasting the full six lap stints. Perhaps if I could learn to drive faster I would wear out the tires quicker! I can also confirm what Austin343 said about the Fairlady: on its 6th lap on each stint, it struggles with the final esses and seems to lose about 10 seconds. It would finish in front of the Lotus if it did not do this four times during the race.:dunce:

    Austin343 has found a great car and lineup, and I would recommend it to anyone interested in a nicely balanced race.:tup:

    Respectfully,
    GTsail290
     
  11. imtheleprechaun

    imtheleprechaun

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    117
    How well do you guys think Austin343's car/lineup choice would fare at the Sarthe round of 1000 Miles!? I went to lineup #48 in my BLRA when I did the championship, and managed 200 points at the first 3 races, but Sarthe would have required shortcutting so I just added power and settled for 130-odd points there.

    I haven't yet built up the will required to mount another car/lineup search for that race, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Actually, for that matter, if anyone's got a good car/lineup suggestion for the European Classic Car series too, I'd love to hear it also. The same thing (car performance disparity) that makes it difficult to find a lineup for 1000 Miles! would also seem to apply at ECC.
     
  12. Austin343

    Austin343

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    It wouldn't work at all at La Sarthe, because the Fairlady has very high straight-line speed and is only beatable at Nurburgring because the AI takes corners so slowly in it. La Sarthe is really a completely different race; I'm pretty sure that there is no way to complete the entire series without having to block in at least one race because for 200 points, you have to sacrifice either speed or cornering and really can't have both at once. Digital-Nitrate's thread reveals that high-point opponent cars that won't blow you away at La Sarthe are the Ginetta and the Marcos, and that the Elan is acceptable, too, if you simply can't be offered quite enough points to be competitive. I found a good lineup that I mentioned in post 175 and later used, including the Elan, the Ginetta, the Duetto, the Sports 800, and the Fiat, but I'm not sure that it can be found in a different car or from a console reset, and it took a while to find, regardless. An ideal lineup would probably contain the Bellet, the Ginetta, the Marcos, the Sports 800, and the Skyline 2000 GT-B, with the S800, the Fiat, the Duetto, the 117, and the Giulia Speciale being acceptable substitutes.

    For the classic car series, do your best to find a lineup without the 427, the Jaguar, the Karmann, or either Fiat - but that should go without saying. I did what the second post in the thread recommended and used the Giulia Sprint Speciale, but if you're willing to spend some time reading all of the posts, there's some good advice showing that the Beetle and the Karmann are also good choices. And I don't remember what lineup I used, but ideally, it would have the Mercedes, the Elan, and the Ginetta all at once while excluding the cars I mentioned. I hope that helps somewhat.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2009
  13. imtheleprechaun

    imtheleprechaun

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    117
    You got that right! Better handling and cornering-speed just isn't enough there. I don't mind blocking, but I do prefer not to have to rely on it lap after lap. I'm going to have a go at finding your lineup for the 117 Coupe, once I set the final drive, and desperately hope the day I'm on isn't going to mean I never find it.

    I'm sure it will, those are the kind of details I need. Thanks for taking the time Austin343!
     
  14. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

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    I think it will depend upon how cleanly you want to run the race.

    I am currently 18 laps into the race at La Sarthe, against Austin343's favored lineup, using my Mazda 110S again, in the 200 point tune, and have a small lead over the Nissan Fairlady. I have not yet needed to do any blocking or punting (mainly because I pitted on lap one, and it took 16 laps to catch the Fairlady), but I am cutting the Ford chicanes every lap, and I used a lot of NOS. I lose about 4 seconds to the Fairlady down the Mulsanne straight, but otherwise the Mazda holds its own pretty well. All the other AI competitors have fallen completely away. The only competition is the Fairlady. The competitors are the Nissan Fairlady 2000 SR311, the Lotus Elan S1, the Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GTA 1600, the Ginetta G4, and the Mini Marcos GT.

    I think it might even be possible to win the race cleanly if you were a very good driver. I would not be able to, but some of our more illustrious drivers might. The Mazda is quite fast once it gets up to speed, and its still fairly light even with the additional 155kg of ballast, so it accelerates decently. It still exhibits oversteer, but its manageable. And its fairly gentle on its tires at La Sarthe, so you do not need to pit more often than the Nissan Fairlady.

    I should be able to finish the race in the morning, and I will let you know how it goes.

    Update:
    I completed the race at La Sarthe and obtained the coveted 200 A-spec points with my Mazda. Once I got into the lead on lap 16 over the Nissan Fairlady, I was able to cruise to the finish. I maintained my 10 second lead over the Fairlady until it pits on lap 30. The Fairlady would take about 4.5 seconds out of me down the Mulsanne straight every lap. I would stay even for most of the rest of the lap, and then take 5 seconds back by cutting the Ford chicanes. My top speed down the Mulsanne straight was 131mph during the beginning of the race, and this increased to 132mph by the end of the race. I pitted on lap 31 for tires and a little more fuel. I now had a 20 second lead over the Fairlady. This grew to 25 seconds by the final lap. My best lap was a 5.06.841 (draft and NOS aided), but I was normally running laps of between 5.10.xx and 5.12.xx during the second half of the race once the fuel load was reduced (still, always cutting the Ford chicanes). The Fairlady is also running laps in this range once its tires warm up. The Fairlady only runs slow laps on the out lap after a pit stop, and on its final lap before a pit stop.


    Respectfully,
    GTsail290
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2009
  15. imtheleprechaun

    imtheleprechaun

    Messages:
    117
    How did you find Austin343's lineup? Is it this one: the Elan, the Ginetta, the Duetto, the Sports 800, and the 500F ?

    I've gone through 20 lineups from a reset with the 117, 188 points with 200kg against ---SPORTS 800, Ginetta, Skyline 1500Dlx, 110S, Skyline 2000GT-B--- is the highest points on offer without unbeatable cars. I can probably win that but I don't want to do this race a third time.

    I thought I'd see what I could do with the Ginetta. With it I think I can beat every car except the 4 cars that shouldn't even be in the entry list to begin with. Trouble is, only 2 out of the first 10 lineups don't have one of those stupidly included cars. Then I tried doing a Sarthe I preview first. Same ratio in the first ten lineups. Those 4 not-impossible races are worth 108, 101, 100, and 84 points. :(

    I'm so frustrated with PD. Why are those 4 cars that can do sub-5-minute laps even on the list of possible entrants??? They majorly screwed up every single historic race in the game. For crying out loud, why couldn't they do a series for high powered fast historic cars and another series for the kinds of cars that don't stand a snowball's chance in hell against the high powered fast cars?? Yowza!

    *sigh* have to try again tomorrow I guess, had enough for today!
     
  16. Austin343

    Austin343

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    No, he means the one that I used at Nurburgring. The one that I used at La Sarthe took quite a few resets to get; I would imagine that it's number 25 at the very least and number 40 at the most.
     
  17. imtheleprechaun

    imtheleprechaun

    Messages:
    117
    I think I've got one! And it's in the single digits! I did a Sarthe I 24h preview and the 9th lineup after that is: Elan, Marcos, GSS, Ginetta, Bellett. With 98kg added to the Isuzu 117, it gives 200 points. I might even be able to beat the Elan on pace. My 200-ballast, unpracticed-lap test run on N3s was only 1 second slower than the Elan's average laptime. I'm going to give it a shot!

    edit: YES! This one is it for sure. My braking leg is beginning to hurt though so I'm probably going to finish this after sleeping some. Anyway, just started lap 23. Lap 22 was my best so far: 5'21.543. At first I was surprised to see the Ginetta break away a lot (was expecting the pole-sitting Elan to), and after my lap 1 stop it had about 1 minute's lead on me. The gap was up to as much as 1'08 but I was managing to keep it around 1 minute or so. Then on lap 8, the Ginetta starts to suffer from apparent total brake failure and goes headlong into the sand after every braking point. P2 on L5, P1 on L12. I pitted at the end of lap 19 with a red left front and a right front that would have been red after 1 more lap. The Elan had about 6 seconds on me when I emerged, and by lap 21 I had the lead back. I've got 14 seconds on the Lotus now and if I can keep it together like I have done so far this should be 200 points for me after another hour of so of racing. Woop woop!

    Austin343 - your list of opponents was gold! :bowdown:
    Dotini - Sarthe I 24hr preview? YES! :bowdown:
    GTSail290 - The ACO would be giving me a couple drive-throughs for sure, but I don't want to do any grass/sand-cutting, that's one the reasons this race is such a PITA for me. Anyway, let us know how your race ends up eh!
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2009
  18. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

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    Nicely done Imtheleprechaun!

    I'm congratulating you in advance since you have a lead that I'm sure the Lotus Elan will not be able to pry from your grasp!

    I may have to try the lineup you are running, which was also recommended by Austin343. I have now received 200 points at La Sarthe in the Nissan Sport Coupe, the Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Speciale, and the Mazda 110S. Winning with the Isuzu 117 Coupe sounds like it should be the next candidate on my list.

    Sorry if my earlier post did not specifically say which lineup I used. I have gone back and edited my post so it now lists the other competitors. Austin343 was right, the lineup I raced against was the one he recommended for the Nurburgring race. I had just finished the Nurburgring race with the Mazda as a Championship, so I just was continuing on to La Sarthe in the same car (I skipped the Opera Paris and the Cote d'Azur races).

    Respectfully,
    GTsail290
     
  19. imtheleprechaun

    imtheleprechaun

    Messages:
    117
    Thanks GTSail! And same to you, full points in so many cars at this race is an admirable feat. Well done!

    If you're keen on it (and it seems you are!), the 117 should provide an enjoyable drive, it's eminently tossable, even on N3s. It's a lot of fun managing the weight transfer through the Porsche Curves. Tire wear isn't as good as I'd like, I was doing 5:29/5:30 laps on completely spent fronts just before my stop and I'll probably have to do the last 2 or 3 laps on similarly worn rubber. There's probably pace enough in the 177 to do a few more laps on N1s before switching to N3s (in order to not have to run the N3s until they're completely worn), but I don't think there's enough pace to make a third stop. I'll let you know how it goes.

    No need to appologize, that lineup wasn't what I was hoping it was anyway. I was thinking about starting a championship myself(I mistakenly feared the pole-sitting Lotus), but I wasn't sure I could skip the first three races without having it adversely affect my win ratio - is that possible? There's no "abandon just this championship round" button is there? Only "abandon entire championship", correct?

    I'll post again to say how it went, but I will be editing my existing 1000 Miles! post to add the specifics.

    Three cheers for :gtplanet: !

    edit: updated my original 1000 Miles! post. Probably going to add some pics eventually, lots of bodyroll here!
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2009
  20. Austin343

    Austin343

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    The 110S proved capable at Opera Paris, as well.

    1. Mazda 110S (L10A) '67: same settings as at Nurburgring, total time 2:49'52.963, fastest lap 1'43.368, pitted on laps 1, 16, 30, 43, 56, 79, and 82
    2. Lotus Elan S1 '62: +1 lap, pitted on lap 52
    3. Nissan Fairlady 2000 (SR311) '68: + multiple laps
    4. Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GTA 1600 '65: +multiple laps
    5. Ginetta G4 '64: +multiple laps
    6. Mini Marcos GT '70: +multiple laps

    As you can see, only the Elan, which is actually the second-fastest of all AI cars at this race (the AC 427 is fastest), posed any threat. The margin of victory is somewhat deceptive, because for the first half of the race, you really have to concentrate on setting a fast time on every lap. The reason is that it is impossible to pass the Elan cleanly, so it's vital to build a 20+ second lead over it before each pit stop; otherwise, you'll be trapped behind it and will then fall 20+ seconds behind after you pit. I did manage to do so, but only on my second attempt; I abandoned the first after 45 minutes because I hadn't driven fast enough and was caught behind it. Even then, each stop put me only between three and ten seconds ahead, so I really had to focus. After the Elan pits, the race becomes easy, because it drives very slowly on cold tires (as the fact that I was able to pit from 25 seconds ahead at the end of lap 16 attests), allowing you to build a gap. And on occasion, the lead will balloon because it has become caught behind a slow car. My lap times were mostly mid- to high-1'44s nearer the beginning and lowered to low 1'44s when the fuel tank had mostly emptied; my fastest lap was half a second faster than any other I ran, so although the car felt much sharper and was evidently capable of much faster times with low fuel, my driving must not have taken advantage of that.

    In terms of the clean driving this time, I didn't have much success in consistently cleanly passing AI cars; their fixation on getting back on the driving line again after running wide meant that what should have been perfectly acceptable passes ended in door slams. I also touched a wall every four or five laps, but it was always minor.

    imtheleprechaun, that's an excellent report. :tup: I'm glad you found success in the race, too, and that you found the car as fun to drive as I did. :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2009
  21. imtheleprechaun

    imtheleprechaun

    Messages:
    117
    Thanks Austin343, if you look again you'll see that I've since peppered that post with pics. The 117 is really great fun! So thanks to you again for the inspiration :tup: :bowdown:

    If I can sweep European Classic Car now, then I'll have won all the points available in Europe. I'm thinking about trying the Beetle...
     
  22. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

    Messages:
    2,445
    Location:
    United States
    1000 miles! at La Sarthe - for 200 A-spec points

    Continuing with my quest for 200 points with multiple cars in this series, I have taken my Isuzu 117 Coupe '68 to La Sarthe and taken on Austin343's lineup (thanks). My Isuzu Coupe has horsepower of 108, and ballast of 131 was added to get to the 200 point tune on N1/N3 tires. I added all non-point upgrades and tweeked the suspension somewhat. Top speed on the Mulsanne straight was normally 123mph, except with an empty fuel tank, when my Isuzu would briefly hit 124mph by the second chicane cut-off.

    The competition was as follows:
    Lotus Elan S1 '62
    Ginetta G4 '64
    Alfa Romeo Spider 1600 Duetto '66
    Toyota Sports 800 '65
    Fiat 500F '65

    I used Austin343's recommended lineup because I could not find the one mentioned by Imtheleprechaun.

    From the start I use a bit of NOS and pass the entire field during the stretch from the Dunlop overpass to half-way on the Mulsanne straight. The Ginetta gets back past me in the Porsche curves, and I pull into the pits in second place just in front of the Lotus, at the end of lap one.

    I exit the pits in 4th place, 28 seconds behind the Ginetta. The Toyota passes me as I get back on the track, and I fall back to 5th place. I re-pass the Toyota at the beginning of the Mulsanne straight and re-take 4th place.

    On lap 3, I pass the Alfa Spider Duetto going thru the Dunlop curves at the top of the hill, and take over 3rd place in the race.

    On lap 4, I lap the Fiat 500F for the 1st time on the Mulsanne straight (this is going to occur throughout the race).

    On lap 5, I catch the Lotus Elan going into the Dunlop curves, draft for a while and then pass it going down the Mulsanne straight once it hits its top speed. I am now 46 seconds behind the Ginetta and in 2nd place.

    During lap 6, the Ginetta stretches its lead to 55 seconds.

    On lap 7, I lap the rolling pylon (I mean the Fiat 500F) for a second time on the Mulsanne straight.

    During lap 8, the Ginetta starts to struggle and its lead drops to 44 seconds.

    On lap 9, I can see that the Ginetta blows the Dunlop curves, and its lead over me drops to 32 seconds.

    On lap 10, I lap the Fiat 500F for a third time on the Mulsanne straight. Meanwhile the Ginetta blows the Ford chicanes and its lead drops to 12 seconds.

    During lap 11, the Ginetta struggles thru Dunlop and then stuffs itself into the wall at Tertre Rouge, so I wave as I pass it by to begin the blast down the Mulsanne straight with the lead! I also get a brief draft behind the Toyota down the straight before I put it one lap down. The Ginetta once again blows the Ford chicanes, so as I begin lap 12 I have a 16 second lead over the Ginetta.

    During lap 12, I can see that the Ginetta struggles with both the Porsche curves and the Ford chicane, so my lead balloons to 39 seconds.

    On lap 13, I lap the poor Fiat 500F for a fourth time on the Mulsanne straight, as the Ginetta struggles and my lead increases to 55 seconds.

    During lap 14, the Ginetta blows either the Dunlop curves or Tertre Rouge and gives second place to the Lotus Elan. The Lotus is 67 seconds behind my Isuzu Coupe at this point.

    I increase my lead over the Lotus to 70 seconds during lap 15.

    On lap 16, I lap the Fiat 500F for a fifth time on the Mulsanne straight, as my lead grows to 80 seconds.

    Laps 17 and 18 pass un-eventfully as my lead grows to 90 seconds.

    On lap 19, I lap the Fiat 500F for a sixth time on the Mulsanne straight. I also lap the Toyota for a second time just before the Porsche curves.

    By the end of lap 20, my lead has grown to 1 minute and 40 seconds over the second place Lotus, so I take a trip into the pit area for fuel, tires and some refreshments.

    My lead has dropped to 72 seconds after the pit stop.

    On lap 22, I lap the Fiat 500F for a seventh time on the Mulsanne straight, and add a few seconds to my lead over the Lotus which is now 80 seconds back.

    During lap 23, I lap the Alfa Spider Duetto going thru the Ford chicanes.

    Lap 24 sees my lead increase to 90 seconds over the Lotus.

    On lap 25, I lap the Fiat 500F (are you surprised?) for an eighth time on the Mulsanne straight. I also catch the Ginetta after it blows the Porsche curves. The Ginetta has had enough, so it takes this opportunity to enter the pits for some fresh rubber. I therefore lap the Ginetta without any issue.

    During lap 26 my lead over the Lotus grows to 1 minute and 40 seconds again.

    As I begin lap 27, I lap the Toyota for a third time going down the start/finish straight. My one brief trading of paint occurs as I pass the Toyota. As you know, the Toyota is fairly slow, so I know I won't have any trouble passing it down the front straight once I see it ahead on the road. So I swing wide to go around the outside and to the left of the Toyota as we start to turn right at the end of the front straight, and the Toyota actually seems to swing wide as well for its entry into this right hander before the esses and hits me!! Usually the AI doesn't see you on the inside of a turn and turns into you, this time it didn't see me on the outside of a turn and it hit me! The nerve!

    On lap 28, I lap the Fiat 500F for a 9th time on the Mulsanne straight.

    During laps 29 and 30, my lead over the Lotus grows to 2 minutes an 10 seconds.

    On lap 31, I lap the Fiat 500F for a 10th time on the Mulsanne straight. Perhaps the Fiat 500F is just parked on the Mulsanne straight, allowing me to pass it by lap after lap. Perhaps it would just rather view the beautiful French countryside rather than race today.

    During laps 32 and 33, my lead over the Lotus grows to 2 minutes and 30 seconds as I really pour it on.

    On lap 34, I lap the...........wait for it............ Fiat 500F for a 11th time on the Mulsanne straight. To make it interesting, I also lap the Toyota for a 4th time going into Indianapolis.

    The final split time seen on lap 35, is 2 minutes and 42 seconds over the Lotus Elan.

    Overall race time was 3.08.29.344, my best lap was a 5.17.060, with NOS but no draft.

    As you can tell, the Isuzu 117 Coupe makes easy work in beating the Lotus Elan at La Sarthe. I would recommend this car and lineup to anyone still in the hunt.

    Respectfully,
    GTsail290
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2009
  23. Austin343

    Austin343

    Messages:
    1,903
    Location:
    United States
    Wow! :eek: Aren't you sick of La Sarthe yet? :D Congratulations on yet another win - you're thoroughly proving that practically any car can succeed in this race.
     
  24. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

    Messages:
    2,445
    Location:
    United States
    You would think so ----:crazy:

    Actually, driving the different cars is quite enjoyable, its only the hours of lineup searching that is painful! I have twice gone thru 50 lineups after the La Sarthe preview without finding Imtheleprechaun's lineup.:yuck: Plus its always fun watching the Ginetta find new ways of driving off into the sand traps!

    Learning how the different cars respond to the same race track/series in quite interesting. For example, how good the Nissan Sport Coupe handles on N1 tires, how much oversteer the Mazda 110S exhibits, how (dare I say it) the Alfa Romeo GSS is aerodynamic!

    Besides, I found that if you go to the Tuner Village, you can pick up an "after-market" cruise control unit for your race car, and then you can talk all you want on your cell phone, eat lunch, send lengthy text messages, and read posts on GTPlanet for at least half the lap at La Sarthe! (romuh alert)

    GTsail290
     
  25. imtheleprechaun

    imtheleprechaun

    Messages:
    117
    There's definitely a lot of time for extra-vehicular activities in this race. Nice writeup GTSail, you really clobbered that Elan!

    I'm sorry to hear you couldn't find my lineup. 100 lineups looking for it! ZOMG. It's so annoying that the exact races in which it's so difficult(understatement!) to find a good lineup, all have lineups that aren't reproducible on different days. I can't decide if that's a bigger failure than having a 427 (or an E-Type, a 300 SL or a Corvette, or a combination of these) in the same races as a bunch of cars with under or just barely over 100HP.

    Maybe the biggest failure is the fact that those 4 cars are pretty easily trounced by human drivers in the 100HP cars at most tracks. Maybe I should have a go at Nurb in a 427 to see how much trouble the AI gives me in Skylines and the like... [mantra]focus on the good points focus on the good points focus on the good points[/mantra]

    I'm not sure I still have the will to go past 20 lineups, and even that's a stretch for me now. If I went through 20 fields without any hits, I'd start over with 2 previews and then 3 previews if still nothing. It's all voodoo though, I don't understand in the least how it works, even after reading about how it works. Maybe more previews would make it worse, but that's what I'd try before going past 20 fields again. Previewing a different race is something else to try, the choice of Sarthe I 24h was quite arbitrary - Dotini suggested it to great effect for a number of manufacturer races so I tried it first. I really don't know what difference it makes previewing one race or another.
     
  26. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

    Messages:
    13,030
    Location:
    United States
    Doing some testing showed me that the Sarthe I Preview was usually effective in conjuring up alternative lineups, usually favorable ones.

    Sarthe II would provide provide another set of lineups. Many of the enduros would provide the same alternative lineups as some of the others. So there are not as many variations as there are enduros. The shorter the enduro previewed, i.e., a preview of a 4 hour race as opposed to a 24 hour race, the quicker the lineups would revert to the standard or "main line" of lineups.

    A preview of the very race you want to race will also insert an alternative number of grids into the sequence, but it will shortly revert back to the main line as you keep entering/exiting.

    This tool of using Preview is an unrefined and unpolished method of assisting the search for favorable lineups. It's no magic bullet. It's for those who want to plow new ground rather than slog through 50 or more lineups that are already known.

    The road to gold is long and cold
    but few there are who mind it.

    Come search for treasures while you may
    for gold is where you find it.
     
  27. Jani

    Jani

    Messages:
    4
    Only checked the first page and the last two, so maybe someone posted this before...

    British Lightweight for 600 Pts:

    Get a used 97 MGF (araound 60.000Km). The car weighs in at about 1100 Kg so you need Stage 2 weight reduction to be able to race this series.

    Triple clutch, 1.5 LSD and racing flywheel,
    NOS @ 70,
    N2 front, N3 rear,
    max ballast, all to the front.

    Autumn Ring was rather easy, the other two races took me about 5 tries each. :tup:
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2010
  28. Tetraeder

    Tetraeder

    Messages:
    47
    I am using Dotini´s setup 7376 at GTVault. The lineup Dotini is mentioning is the same as the one used by Uncle Harry in the PAL version (#6). I´m using PAL too and wanted to complete the race at NR for 200 with that lineup. Problem is, that in my grid #6 the 5th place starting Elan is replaced by a Karman Ghia and is offering only 161 points. I won the race and was looking further down for that lineup, without success.

    I´ve heard of differences between NTSC and PAL versions, also concerning the lineups. But are there also different PAL versions?
     
  29. AMG.

    AMG. Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    3,115
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Unfortunately yes, see post 2 in this thread. It gave me some headaches.

    AMG.
     
  30. Austin343

    Austin343

    Messages:
    1,903
    Location:
    United States
    On Sunday, I finally got around to starting the last 1000 Miles! event that I had left, at Cote d'Azur, and I finished it today. This race completes the set of clean-in-principle races, with the Mazda conquering the slower tracks and the Isuzu being reserved for La Sarthe.

    1. Mazda 110S (L10A) '67: same settings as at Nurburgring and Opera Paris, total time 3:33'25.046, fastest lap 2'04.410, pitted on laps 1, 14, 27, 39, 51, 63, 75, and 87
    2. Lotus Elan S1 '62: +1.7 laps, pitted on lap 68
    3. Nissan Fairlady 2000 (SR311) '68: +2 or 3 laps
    4. Ginetta G4 '64: +4 laps
    5. Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GTA 1600 '65: +4 or 5 laps
    6. Mini Marcos GT '70: +several laps

    This race isn't very difficult; the competitors are all quite lackluster. What was difficult was passing the AI cars. :mad: I made fewer than half of my passes without an AI car cramming me into the Armco or bashing me from behind, even doing my best to be patient (if I had just accepted that making most passes entirely cleanly was an impossible goal, then barging carelessly through them as they do to you would probably have improved my finishing time by about a minute). The problem is that you're fully five seconds faster per lap than many of the AI cars, so you can guess how quickly they take corners. :rolleyes: But as usual, they manage to occupy the entire track, often weaving from side to side, even while moving so slowly. :banghead: That said, my performance in terms of cleanliness on my own was dismal; because of my innate tendency to pursue the fastest lap and because going fast at this track requires getting as close to barriers as possible, I made a huge number of wall contacts, on the order of one every 1.5-2 laps. :guilty: The race can be won much more cleanly than I did by going more slowly, as evidenced by the large MOV, but I'm satisfied with completing the series without intentional blocking, ramming, wallriding, or shortcutting.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2010