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Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by Hun200kmh, Feb 7, 2012.
It makes you wonder if they really are struggling or just some major sandbagging going on.
You mean like what McLaren were doing last year around this time, yet Australia told a very different story.
I hope they will be seventh (I don't like Ferrari, because as a child I had a Lego Ferrari F1 car, and it had too much understeer, very annoying)
Possibly, but in two weeks time we will have a better idea.
Times in pre-season testing mean exactly nothing at all. You don't even have to run a car that complies with the regulations.
The slower teams lacking backing tend to do all sorts of odd things to set fast laps in order to entice potential sponsors, the teams with faster cars tend to try development work rather than go for times.
The first time any of us know how fast the cars are relative to each other will be qualifying in Melbourne.
Unofficial aggregate test times from Barcelona:
1. Kimi Raikkonen, Lotus, 1:22.030, 164 Laps
2. Sergio Perez, Sauber, 1:22.094, 232 Laps
3. Jenson Button, McLaren, 1:22.103, 108 Laps
4. Daniel Ricciardo, Toro Rosso, 1:22.155, 231 Laps
5. Fernando Alonso, Ferrari, 1:22.250, 240 Laps
6. Bruno Senna, Williams, 1:22.296, 212 Laps
7. Nico Hulkenberg, Force India, 1:22.312, 137 Laps
8. Kamui Kobayashi, Sauber, 1:22.386, 149 Laps
9. Felipe Massa, Ferrari, 1:22.413, 227 Laps
10. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, 1:22.430, 180 Laps
11. Paul di Resta, Force India, 1:22.446, 206 Laps
12. Romain Grosjean, Lotus, 1:22.614, 197 Laps
13. Heikki Kovalainen, Caterham, 1:22.630, 168 Laps
14. Mark Webber, Red Bull, 1:22.662, 172 Laps
15. Vitaly Petrov, Caterham, 1:22.795, 224 Laps
16. Nico Rosberg, Mercedes, 1:22.932, 257 Laps
17. Michael Schumacher, Mercedes, 1:22.939, 179 Laps
18. Jean-Eric Vergne, Toro Rosso, 1:23.126, 158 Laps
19. Pastor Maldonado, Williams, 1:23.347, 126 Laps
20. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, 1:23.361, 108 Laps
Testing is now complete, and we're less then two weeks away from Australia . The top 10 teams were all within 1.4 seconds, hopefully the grid will be that close at Australia. It probably won't be that close, but I can hope that it will be
Alex Wurz released what he thought the order was, he said: 1.RedBull, 2.McLaren, 3.Mercedes, 4.Ferrari, 5-9. Lotus/ForceIndia/Williams/Sauber/TorroRosso, 10+ rest
the back of the Williams again is small & radical this year that thing looks crazy
but they seem to have decent speed
I like Williams' approach for this year. They really are looking to turn things around. There is a lot of "out with the old, in with the new" going on there. And unlike last year, when everyone, even themselves, thought they were going to be back at the front, were very much disappointed. This year, I think they have set more realistic targets for themselves, and will do better this time around.
True, I dont know who painted the bleaker picture last year between the media and McLaren spokespeople, but according to preseason testing McLaren were supposed to be third, way behind Red Bull and Ferrari.
I'm hoping Williams do improve a lot, and get into some Q3's. But with Maldonando and Senna, it doesn't look to good, they are alright, but nothing special. Midfield drivers.
Different conditions can explain away a lot of those three seconds. I agree that they've made a step forward, but speaking as someone who has followed F1 since around 1991 (and I was only born in 87) I've seen this all before.
We don't even know if any of the top teams went for an all out fast lap. We'll only know where everyone stands after Q3 in Melbourne. So let's not get too far ahead of ourselves.
And given Vettel's record against Webber since the start of 2009, can you blame him? If push comes to shove and there is only one new front wing, of course it will be given to the guy who has earned the right to number one status in the team. It's not a mystery. It's been happening since the beginning of Grand Prix racing. It's only happened once at Red Bull, but people are still outraged about it. Even going as far as to ignore the fact the Vettel's front wing failed on it's own accord. Which you did.
Any other McLaren fans worried about the under chassis changes for the last 2 days of Barcelona? The snow plough has remained on the car since 2009 and even this year being the only car to not feature the stepped nose it was the case of they'd either missed a trick or were seeing something others weren't. By getting rid of the snow plough for the vertical vanes (a move Jenson Button praised for immediately improving the front end) have they realised now that a higher nose would be best?
Aesthetically, I am VERY glad that they don't have the stepped nose. Wanting McLaren to win, I'm glad that Button has praised the changes and testing has worked out well. Theoretically thinking, would a stepped nose have greatly increased the cars downforce and put it level / ahead of Red Bull?...
I'm not really, most people are saying it might be very close between Mclaren and Red Bull at the start of this year, then Mercedes, Lotus and Ferrari atm. At least that's what Brundle says.
Also there is no higher nose, all the team have the same height for nose, there's a schema in one of the post on this thread on how Mclaren went around the stepped nose thingy. And no theorically the stepped nose dont produce more downforce at least not in the article I've read.
Thanks for the schema Pezzarinho.
They are, I just hope its not Red Bull leaving those last 5 tenths for when they are really needed like they always seem to find... Only time will tell of course.
I have seen the side by side comparison, the nose is definitely lower on the McLaren hence why it doesn't need to incorporate a step to comply with the regulations.
(Picture taken from Scarbs blog http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/)
By raising the nose to the extreme maximum as the other teams have done creates greater space beneath the chassis to speed up the air underneath the car. It does however raise the centre of gravity of the nose section and McLaren's snow plough was seen as a clever device to gain back most of the aero lost with a low nose.
A major plus is that with the rules coming in 2014 for even lower noses then McLaren will not have to adapt as much as the other teams by using lower noses until then anyway.
Yeah well then there is Vettel, that seems to be able to gain those last tenth of seconds when he really need them (he was really awesome last year in qualification, like alonso). But yeah finger crossed, we'll know a bit more in 2 week.
I think it's stupid how the teams have to pass all the crash tests before they can even test the cars.
Because now we are left with two teams who won't know what there cars are like and that is quite frankly ridiculous...
Good move FIA
Yeah how dare the FIA enforce safety regulations!
I get your point, but it's only preseason testing...
I didn't see anyone get seriously hurt in testing last year.
Your case is that 2 teams have not tested because of the new safety rules, but how much testing did they do last and the year before it?
It's a good idea to increase safety, the guys are doing the same speed as in the season so why not have the same safety rules? Unless you would all prefer to wait until someone does get hurt and only then make safety changes? Proactive not reactive...
Everyone else managed to test their cars. Speaking as someone who has seen my fair share of freak accidents over the years, I support the FIA 100% in this ruling.
You said you didn't follow testing last year. And anyway, that's beside the point. The safety regulations apply to everyone. A freak accident can happen at any time. I for one, would rather see a team miss out on winter testing than see a team testing with what could be an unsafe car.
Add to that passing crash tests after pre season testing but before the first race in Melbourne would be a logistical nightmare.
...I didn't hear about anyone getting hurt...
And I was just saying that I can see that side of the argument.
lol seems we're back to Montreal argument last year lol. Where some people were saying that F1 became a sports for sissy, like Lafite who was saying that with rain like that they were racing at this time even if the car were rubish (comparing them to today's car). Some others said it was a good move because driver safety is the most important things.
For my personal feelings, I think that security is good, the racing world lost Simoncelli last year it was already that hard (and I'm betting he's not the only one). Having less injured and dead drivers is good and if it happen, it's because there's crash test regulation.
People complaining about the FIA enforcing a safety regulation just for the sake of a couple under-resourced teams is major facepalm. This is one part of F1 that should not revert to the old days. There is a standard to be met and it should be enforced, just because no accidents have happened recently in testing doesn't mean they won't happen.
And fatal accidents in testing have occured in the past.
Certainly the FIA should do more to help the smaller teams who struggle for funds and resources, but removing safety regulations is not the way to do it.
Yes. Perhaps they should allow the teams who don't show up to the main tests to book their own (restricted) testing with an FIA delegate present, but the safety aspects are necessary.
As we know now, pre-season testing is prohibited as of Monday so the last Sunday of the test was the absolute latest any team had to be ready for. Both teams missed it due to failed crash tests, which means had the same impact occurred on the track rather than in a controlled environment at the factory then we could have seen injuries (the safety margins involved probably mean that the drivers would still be ok though shaken).
To change the subject slightly, where do people judge the teams currently then? I'm entering a dream team again this year and I've ranked the teams as so:
There will be drivers who can make up the difference and beat cars I'd deem faster at the moment, and my main hope (beyond a McLaren championship or 2...) is that Caterham achieve their target this year and are in the midfield. Toro Rosso have 2 "rookies" this year so the experience of the tyres and formula within Caterham should see them closely matched at the start of the year. I also see Ferrari overturning the deficit to Mercedes and maybe the top 2 quickly. Especially with that damn Spaniard driving for them...
What do you all think though?
Alonso to win.
But seriously... despite Newey's outward pessimism, I doubt Red Bull will be anywhere but in the top three teams. I won't be surprised if Mercedes manage to leapfrog everyone with their design... they're using a similar forward mount exhaust to RBR, and they've got some micro-double-diffuser going... I wouldn't count Brawn out.
Ferrari might lose places to one or two teams with their balance issues... The true test for the team is if they can become as flexible as McLaren, and develop hard and fast over the course of the season.
Of course safety is important, how did it work before they had to pass all the crash tests.
In my view I think it's important that all teams are able to test and these lower funded teams are still a part of F1 and should be allowed to test, but only race if the car passes all tests.