Fanatec Announcements: CSW V2 Reviews Out

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VWMasteR
What was said? Is there some valid information there that should be repeated?
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Not really. Just soap opera/personality stuff. The only conclusion you can /really/ draw is the one you have already formed. The worse you can draw from it is that the hardware of the wheel is good but there needs to be work in other areas. At least that is my conclusion.

People are openly talking about firmware updates making improvement, so even that is nothing new.

You can read more into it and decide one person or the other is an a*s but that has nothing to do with the wheel.
 
Thanks guys bout pushing up Forza 4. I just broke down and ordered from Amazon should be here in 2 days. 👍

Note, I already have Fm 2 & fm 3. But was no hurry to order FM 4 cause nowadays I cant play w/o a wheel

Anyway, I'm just learning to drive this HPD-ARX 01c car in iRacing. Was having an awesome time doing my 1st race with it then next thing I know I go flying off the track on Lap 8/100 and my car was freakin' totaled and there probably wont be another fixed series race til Thursday.

So um yeah console racing games still got their bonuses. Granted, I will still no doubt recover my dignity and hop right back in the next available race but sometimes people just want to take the little free time they have to hop into a race and have fun
 
12thgear
I think the Fanatec FFB strength control should work like a volume control instead of just clipping the signal. I don't see much value in it otherwise.....
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If it acted like a "volume control" it's effect would be no different from the in-game setting. More convenient, but redundant. The way Fanatec has implemented FFB settings on the wheel allows the user to boost the smaller effects without over powering on larger effects. This gives you choices. I agree however with your idea on how it should be described.👍

Scotty
 
scoddee
If it acted like a "volume control" it's effect would be no different from the in-game setting. More convenient, but redundant. The way Fanatec has implemented FFB settings on the wheel allows the user to boost the smaller effects without over powering on larger effects. This gives you choices. I agree however with your idea on how it should be described.👍

Scotty
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How about we split the FFB setting on the wheel then. One being FFC (Force Feedback Cut-off) working like how FF works now on the wheel, and the other being FFA (Force Feedback amplitude) working as a "volume knob".

That way you could regulate your entire FFB effects on the wheel if it's not possible in the game, for example console games (like FM4 and GT5) don't offer much fine tuning. Also being able to adjust your FFA and FFC on the fly while driving will make life a hell of a lot easier.

Tweak... set... and GO! :sly:
 
scoddee
If it acted like a "volume control" it's effect would be no different from the in-game setting. More convenient, but redundant. The way Fanatec has implemented FFB settings on the wheel allows the user to boost the smaller effects without over powering on larger effects. This gives you choices. I agree however with your idea on how it should be described.👍
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From hearing the way some people choose to use it, perhaps many Fanatec users want and expect it to work like a volume control.

The way I interpret Sonac's FFB strength graphs and the clipping issue it shows at lower settings, is that there are no ways to boost the smaller effects. If you set FF in the tuning menu to 50 instead if 100, then you're cutting the strength of the most powerful forces in half (at the top of the scale), basically eliminating any variance in forces beyond 50. You'd have to additionally lower the force feedback strength in the game's settings too, to make sure the full range of forces fits within this half scale.

What I'd like is if the wheel electronics allowed you to set a force feedback minimum. The weakest signal sent from the game software would map to this higher level and compress the signal rather than simply amplifying it across the board. You'd have reduced force feedback dynamic range, but you wouldn't introduce additional clipping at the top end.

LogiForce
How about we split the FFB setting on the wheel then. One being FFC (Force Feedback Cut-off) working like how FF works now on the wheel, and the other being FFA (Force Feedback amplitude) working as a "volume knob".

That way you could regulate your entire FFB effects on the wheel if it's not possible in the game, for example console games (like FM4 and GT5) don't offer much fine tuning. Also being able to adjust your FFA and FFC on the fly while driving will make life a hell of a lot easier.
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We do know Fanatec is offering more advanced tuning functionality in the CSW. In his CSW/Formula Rim preview video, Thomas demoed the ability to adjust the strength of different types of force feedback individually. Perhaps there are more advanced tuning surprises in store.
 
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12thgear
From hearing the way some people choose to use it, perhaps many Fanatec users want and expect it to work like a volume control.

The way I interpret Sonac's FFB strength graphs and the clipping issue it shows at lower settings, is that there are no ways to boost the smaller effects. If you set FF in the tuning menu to 50 instead if 100, then you're cutting the strength of the most powerful forces in half (at the top of the scale), basically eliminating any variance in forces beyond 50. You'd have to additionally lower the force feedback strength in the game's settings too, to make sure the full range of forces fits within this half scale.



We do know Fanatec is offering more advanced tuning functionality in the CSW. In his CSW/Formula Rim preview video, Thomas demoed the ability to adjust the strength of different types of force feedback individually. Perhaps there are more advanced tuning surprises in store.
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I believe we have the following on the CSW from the video:

Setup: S_1, S_2, S_3, S_4, S_5
Sensitivity: 0 - 900 (steps of 10)
Force Feedback Strength: 0 - 100 (steps of 10)
ABS: OFF - 100 (steps of 5)
Linearity: .?. - .?.
Deadzone: .?. -.?.
Drift: -3, -2, -1, OFF, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Force Effect: ... - 80 - 130 - .?. (steps of 10)
Spring Effect: ... - ... (probably same as Force Effect)
Damper Effect: ... - ... (probably same as Force Effect)
Fan: ... - ...

So you do have more control indeed. Being able to amplify the Force, Spring and Damper effects that are the basic effects needed for creating all the FFB effects (according to Thomas in the movie). So that in combination with the bandpass filter like "Force Feedback Strength" setting should indeed give enough adjustment to create the perfect feedback for any game I reckon.

Btw, I kinda forgot about the extra settings for the CSW. :dunce:
 
12thgear
From hearing the way some people choose to use it, perhaps many Fanatec users want and expect it to work like a volume control.

The way I interpret Sonac's FFB strength graphs and the clipping issue it shows at lower settings, is that there are no ways to boost the smaller effects. If you set FF in the tuning menu to 50 instead if 100, then you're cutting the strength of the most powerful forces in half (at the top of the scale), basically eliminating any variance in forces beyond 50. You'd have to additionally lower the force feedback strength in the game's settings too, to make sure the full range of forces fits within this half scale....
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I agree with the first part but would RAISE in-game setting. The more powerful forces in your example would not be clipped like audio. They would still be reproduced at the 50% level. Then raising in-game setting raises small effects AND compressed large effects together. You could call it "nonlinear dynamic compression" because I think that's what you would have.

I know its not ideal but it's more choice than t500 and Logitech.

Scotty
 
left888
Don't get me wrong I like Forza, we were speaking about being consistent in long races at iRacing, 25 minutes and up. GT5 and Forza 4 do not offer long races like that. That's why I laughed at the tester that said he improved after 3 laps, I meant no dis to Forza or GT5, apologies if it seemed that way.
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Console races are as long as you want...

Look at the championship that is doing a gt5 100% race online next year!
 
sonac
Thanks guys.
Latte, I can check that tomorrow, if you want. I am only still awake, because I was working on this benchmark until 2am (it's 3:15am now) :) I can not afford to make any noises now. I must admit I never lowered sensitivity in Forza under 900° since the update came out.
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Its great for you to add a little science to the reviews and performance of the wheel. Also credit to you for the time and research involved. Appreciate trying different things too.

However we also have to keep in mind that it is a benchtest. I assume it does not confirm or reflect the wheel on X360/PS3 and how different games with different effects may also change how the wheel feels. Their are also loads of other varibles like maybe changing other functions on the wheel could also have some form of impact or effect on the bench test results.

Personally my advice would be to still concentrate on what you as a gamer feel from the wheel. A wheel is all about sensation, the feedback and personal choices/preferences. Benchtests are great for things like graphic cards/framerates and providing comparsions within the confines of the test. Outside of those confines then it cannot be confirmed. I am not so sure apart from technically showing raw data what it really achieves. You did make comment about this so do not see it as a criticisim.

People will still opt to change settings based on old fashioned feel and well just like our discussions here some may like one setting were the wheel may "technically" be at its peak performance however the user prefer something different.

Like any other wheel, logic tells me their will be a large number of people that end up using similar settings on the wheel because they naturally feel comfortable or good with those and as such the wheel must perform well for those to become popular.

Ive used FFB at anything between 7-10 since getting the wheel. Linarity still can be useful on some cars or wheel rotation settings but never have it over 20. Spring I agree it doesnt feel as natural however it is effective in helping to replicate the arcade feel in Daytona with a setting to 1. Drift mode like you reported isnt really needed and it is evident immediately on how fast the wheel naturally is.

Really different cars, games, systems may all have variations and thats what is great with Fanatec is you have options in the wheel that allow you to personalise it. This is still a big advantage over the T500RS for this particular product and one of the reasons to consider getting it over a T500RS or indeed people considering upgrading their older Logitech/Fanatec or indeed T500RS wheels. You now get T500RS + performance, X360 compatibility and all those features, oh and you wont find like T500RS it will work on all PS3 games not only a handful.
 
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amf7
I find feel is more important ..

F1 especially!
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It is not about what is more important in a review though. Rather in a review you want to inform the reader or viewer with as much data as possible so he himself can make the decision to buy the product or not, plus maybe inform the manufacturer of your findings and input as well. The data should consist of subjective points that you try to back up with objective figures as much as possible so the reader has something to hold on to. If there is an anomaly where the two don't add up you try to explain it as well as possible why you think this is. That's how I see most reviews with benchmarks being done. Also. Below is a small outline of a graphics card review being done, at least how I see it being done on decent sites.

When you review a graphics card for example you usually do it in order of this. Intro with basic info, technical specifications, unboxing and looks, first inpressions of image quality and noise reproduction, closer look at the cards features if overclocking card, temperatures on idle and max load when normal and overclocked, benchmarks, conclusion with you vision on the 'feel' versus what the hard figures show and wrap up with the price tag.
 
Yes but Logiforce the issue with this "Benchmark" is what does it prove how the wheel feels on various platforms with various games and with different cars?

Im not having a go, I applaud Sonac going and looking to get actual data to help backup what users have been saying. Yes it highlights some things as well and is interesting reading. However it should not be used as a way of comparing each wheel to reflect/ensure this is also their performances in games or giving a final verdict.

Thomas himself on these very forums even had a go at Thrustmaster on posting "Data Benchmarks" or specs of motor power and a 1080 wheel rotation that most would not use. I personally asked on more than one occasion for "Data Figures" which they do not release to the public. It was obvious to me he is not interested in playing the numbers game for promoting the wheels.

These tests do not highlight how the wheel feels in your hand and what your instincts tell you when using it. My point is peoples findings from actual playtesting should be much more relevant and important than "Hard Data". Wheels are not graphic cards.

What was discussed in PMs about a month ago among testers was an idea of doing a game/car/track combo that all testers could run and then to accumulate the feedback from each tester to see how the opinions compared. Im willing to help with that if people want to combine their efforts or if anyone thinks it would be of any use.
 
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scoddee
If it acted like a "volume control" it's effect would be no different from the in-game setting.
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Yes, but many games lack the in-game setting. Problem with current wheel FFB setting is that it affects drift mode which is mandatory to get wheel spinning fast enough for good lap times and drifting. So I use constantly 100% FFB setting on wheel with all games.
 
amf7
Console races are as long as you want...

Look at the championship that is doing a gt5 100% race online next year!
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I've done some long ones in GT5 in the hosted sessions. Especially with GTP community. We had a practice, qualifying, pace lap, & then the actual race

But if you do the pickup sessions you'll most likely get some very short races. Although every so often you may catch a long one there too. Other day did a pickup session at Spa with no aids and street tires (or was it comforts I forget).

I've got nothing against console games but they missing major racing sim features such as cautions, controlling your car in a pit, pace car, black flags, etc. Only console racing game I've seen come close to being a racing sim is f1 2011. Sadly the PS3 version was not so great. Need to remember to order the xbox 360 version at some point.

-------

Friend should be bringing me his camera. Tonight or tomorrow I'm hoping to get some material up
 
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Race pro has a custom championship creator, you can set as many laps as you like. AI get flagged and disqualified too.

Excellent.
 
Never got around to nitting at the physics since the ps3 version graphics were so poor. Luckily it was a copy I borrowed so I didn't pay for it. What a shame cause Dirt 3 PS3 was top notch graphically

Granted, I find it entertaining to read such debates (bout sim physics) cause in the back of my mind you are missing g-forces that you experience in real life. We are missing a very critical element of racing physics. I'd be interested in trying out a motion simulator one of these days and perhaps then I'd critique the physics 👍

But don't get me wrong I am impressed by simulated physics. Especially tire modeling. But alas, without feeling those beloved g-forces it's not a debate that interests me very much.
 
Personally, I don't like motion rigs at all. Maybe that one that also simulates traction loss might be cool, but I'm not spending close to $10k. In the two motion rigs I have tried, the side to side and forward/back motion didn't feel like G-forces at all, just felt like someone was rocking me around. Don't get me wrong, it was a cool experience, but for the price I don't think it adds enough to immersion levels.
 
Has anyone received en email with a tracking number when his wheel is shipped ?
My order status changed to "Delivered" so I guess it arrived at the warehouse but I wonder if I'll get a surprise at my door in few days or if Fanatec will give us a tracking number (just like they do with everything else we buy)
 
zibook
Has anyone received en email with a tracking number when his wheel is shipped ?
My order status changed to "Delivered" so I guess it arrived at the warehouse but I wonder if I'll get a surprise at my door in few days or if Fanatec will give us a tracking number (just like they do with everything else we buy)
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Yep, schedueled dekivery for tommorow (europe)
 
Hey guys, i'm sorry but I can't seem to find the drilling template for the CSR Elite... I know it was somewhere on Thomas' blog, but a google search only gave templates for the pedals, anyone have that link handy? Thanks
 

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