Fanatec Announcements: CSW V2 Reviews Out

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More childish stuff... ugh...



The ISR response to the video:

We got a great laugh out of this.. You should have included the footage of the wheel making that noise though..lol.. Unfortunately, you're not allowed to use our images, voice, music, etc in this video without our permission. Please take it down or we will have to report it. Good work !
simracingtonight 11 hours ago
 
Truth be told I do not think the sim racing community needs ISR. In fact ISR should try more to take those that are new to sim racing (but kinda interested) and bring them in.
 
Though i am only in my first year of sim racing i fully agree. I never heard of ISR before I started visiting here regularly. I personally have never used their reviews as part of my decisions or for product knowledge. I honestly found their latest pedal review very poor. Add on 2 minutes of commercials to every review and you see where their hearts have went.


A couple weeks ago,we were talking about fanatecs marketing and i brought up major electronics magazines. I was thinking about it and i think that is where i found out about the porsche line of wheels. I believe it was in the consumer report smart phone edition last november.
 
Truth be told I do not think the sim racing community needs ISR. In fact ISR should try more to take those that are new to sim racing (but kinda interested) and bring them in.

Truth be told... I think that a good product will sell itself. I mean if only one person buys a wheel and finds it awesome, then he will tell his mates at a big forum like this. Maybe even make a review by himself like I did with the CSP's out of my own accord. People will read that, talk about it and maybe buy the product. If those people become happy they'll tell other people. Anyhow... if the word of mouth is good and positive then a product doesn't need any promotion. Although I know it helps, promoting stuff but I am of the opinion that it's not the best way of promotion.

Anyhow, let's see how things go in the new year with both Fanatec and ISR. I am sure that both will find their way, although I do feel that iRacing and Fanatec were keeping ISR alive. Thus I fear a painful road ahead of them.
Fanatec on the other hand will continue to try and improve their products and support. Just note that a human is never perfect, so the products the humans produce or the support humans can give is never perfect.
Personally I have a feeling we'll see a lot of CSR Elite's around and a few by comparison lucky ones (who can afford it) with a CSW.

What Logitech will do in 2012... no clue. Thrustmaster... no clue. Yeah, maybe a 2012 F1 wheel for the T500 or something like that. Or since Thomas is making a handbrake maybe they will as well. Who knows?

Ah well... I'm going to go and make my grocery list for shabu shabu (japanese dish) which I want to eat for Christmas, since all this talk about all the non-sense of recently has made me hungry. :drool:
 
I would imagine ISR, Darin and Thomas will blow over. Don't let it ruin this glorious rollout of the CSR-E for the early adopters. CSR-E is king. Long live the king.

Scotty
 
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His comments on iracing are stupid... I'm not a member and I'm not sure if I should publish them..

It wasn't a personal attack at each other...


Darin was attacking all fanatec (gap) which he didn't discover himself. He just got copied into a few emails.

Thomas says that the issue is an easy fix and it hasent been picked up on yet.. even by Latte so that's how minor it is.
 
It is normal that the racing community is interested in the situation between Thomas and Darin.

It is up to them to resolve the situation ( if they can) and to be real business people. It is best for sim racing community that they cooperate. But not in the way they did it when Darin was working for Fanatec , they were pushing fanatec from every corner.
But as I already said situation at this moment is also not good at all.

I want strong ISR and Fanatec, also Thrustmaster , Logitech etc. Also I want another guys to make something like ISR.

Community will have most benefits from situation like that.
 
Darin is being an absolute tool in my opinion. A few months ago, before he started working for fanatec, he had nothing but positive things to say about the CSR Elite and all things Fanatec in general. He spent most of his time blowing smoke up Fanatec's ass. Then suddenly since the split all Fanatec wheels have problems and the Elite has many problems. So he was either lying back then or is lying now. Whichever way you look at it that loses him credibility. As for not reviewing anymore Fanatec products, that is effectively ignoring a large section of what is already a niche community. It'll only hurt his own show.
 
Im hoping MrT pops in on the subject ;)

Let me rephrase that, I hope the subject dies a quick death, but if anyone from inside of fanatec feels the need to speak out publicly, i hope it would be Mr T and his pimp shades!
 
Caz
Im hoping MrT pops in on the subject ;)

Let me rephrase that, I hope the subject dies a quick death, but if anyone from inside of fanatec feels the need to speak out publicly, i hope it would be Mr T and his pimp shades!

Mr T? Does it stand for Mr Terminator? :sly:
After all I hear he is being compared to the worlds most famous actor. I hear he has been called a governor of the state that everyone would like to see once. But I hear he is the real squeal from something called Fanatec. Please give him a good oil bath, the T!
 
DJ88
Well, even if it's childish I'm still very interested in reading Darin's "review" and comments on the iracing forums, but I'm not a member yet. My earlier attempt to get some info here from that forum was met with some odd hostility

You weren't asking for info pertaining to the wheel which is what this thread is about.....you wanted to know about the spat between Thomas and Darin which is why I got annoyed and wanted it avoided as a topic in this thread . So you bring the Darin/Thomas topic back up again, the ball is rolling now and now every time I come back here and see new posts have been made I'm sifting through posts that have no relevant info on the CSR E.....just Thomas vs Darin crap. This should be in its own separate thread if people care so much. I have the perfect title for it too:

"As The Sim World Turns"

I don't know all the details on this stupid spat but I'll put my two cents in:

Theres two sides to every story but based on the things I have seen the past two days Darin is being an ass who loses credibility with every word he types or speaks into a camera on this matter. He claims he can be a professional yet he's airing his dirty laundry on his forum and his show......that's not being professional. As mentioned earlier.....looks really bad when back in October you tell people on your show in regards to the CSR E that "you're not going to get anything better"....."it's an amazing wheel" and then do a full 180 on that stance and bash your former employer and their products on your forum and show. Personally I've never thought much of ISR reviews anyway as they all wreak of sponsor bias to some degree and are lacking quite often in substance. A review like Amar's for instance is better than any wheel review I've seen on ISR.
 
Spagetti69
You serious?

He isn't the only one that thinks that way. I fully agree with him. Granted I went off topic as well cause of it.
It is just that most of us here took Darren for a professional, but after reading and hearing his comments and also comparing that with actions and words from the past he lost all credibility and trust. So the reason we want to talk about it is cause it shocked us to some extend.
I also want to add that after reading a lot and having seen many shows I personally feel like Darren/ISR was just always trying to kiss but to get free stuff. I never heard them say we will go and buy this or that. No it was always like "hey madcatz please send us your wheel as we would like to review it here" or "hey Thomas I hope you send us a CSR soon to review". Just asking/begging for stuff. Giving little criticism about products from the manufacturer they got the most off. Now he has an issue with one he is going to the other extreme.

Sorry but all this makes any review from this community more credible and better in my opinion.
 
Spagetti69
You serious?


Yes....I am because for the most part he did a good job conveying how the wheel feels and how it's feel compared to other wheels and the subsequent different aspects of FFB between them. ISR never did stuff like that in the reviews I've watched......comments tended to be very general and not all that objective seemingly.....seems everything they review as of late scores 9/10 or at least an 8.5.
 
Unfortunately I haven't seen any CSR E reviews that would count for me as a consumer roadmap for buying a wheel.
All the reviews are one sided (similar to ISR) as everyone is trying to "deserve" they were worth sending a beta testing wheel.
 
Yes....I am because for the most part he did a good job conveying how the wheel feels and how it's feel compared to other wheels and the subsequent different aspects of FFB between them. ISR never did stuff like that in the reviews I've watched......comments tended to be very general.

I had a chance to try the wheel when Amar got it for reviewing, and it's in different league compared to other wheels (i owned Turbo S and G25). And everything that he wrote is true.

Regarding ISR, they are NFS serial when it comes to reviewing. For me, their audience should be teenagers. It's a great show, and i love to watch it, but i just don't take them seriously when it comes to reviewing. Here on GTplanet, we have more competent guys that do reviews and should be listened.
 
ilonioum
Unfortunately I haven't seen any CSR E reviews that would count for me as a consumer roadmap for buying a wheel.
All the reviews are one sided (similar to ISR) as everyone is trying to "deserve" they were worth sending a beta testing wheel.

At least some of the reviews here are actually decent. I won't mention names but a couple reviews I read on the official Forza forum are......pathetic. I'm reading them thinking...."This guy got voted for this and turns that in?" one review was shorter than some of Logi's recent posts for crying out loud.
 
He isn't the only one that thinks that way. I fully agree with him. Granted I went off topic as well cause of it.
It is just that most of us here took Darren for a professional, but after reading and hearing his comments and also comparing that with actions and words from the past he lost all credibility and trust. So the reason we want to talk about it is cause it shocked us to some extend.
I also want to add that after reading a lot and having seen many shows I personally feel like Darren/ISR was just always trying to kiss but to get free stuff. I never heard them say we will go and buy this or that. No it was always like "hey madcatz please send us your wheel as we would like to review it here" or "hey Thomas I hope you send us a CSR soon to review". Just asking/begging for stuff. Giving little criticism about products from the manufacturer they got the most off. Now he has an issue with one he is going to the other extreme.

Sorry but all this makes any review from this community more credible and better in my opinion.

99% of the reviews of anything anywhere in the world is done in the way that the supplier gives free item for test (not talking about personal reviews by you or me).

Another thing is their aggrement on returning items or not. But ISR guys search for the hardware from suppliers in the wrong way.

Community also has been given discount on beta products, so that is a little bit something to think about.

Also to mention that Amar and Sandbox did great work in their reviews and I trust them. Also Micheal Maine or something did a good job.
 
At least some of the reviews here are actually decent. I won't mention names but a couple reviews I read on the official Forza forum are......pathetic. I'm reading them thinking...."This guy got voted for this and turns that in?" one review was shorter than some of Logi's recent posts for crying out loud.

Totally agree with you on this :) LF is exactly the kind of guy I would read the review of, he knows how to deliver and knows where to seek and has a lot of willing for all of that.

LF, this a compliment.
 
thehawk05
At least some of the reviews here are actually decent. I won't mention names but a couple reviews I read on the official Forza forum are......pathetic. I'm reading them thinking...."This guy got voted for this and turns that in?" one review was shorter than some of Logi's recent posts for crying out loud.

I haven't read any of it but it's sad that reviews are shorter then my posts. Although I just write too much in my opinion. ;)

Leemon
99% of the reviews of anything anywhere in the world is done in the way that the supplier gives free item for test (not talking about personal reviews by you or me).

Another thing is their aggrement on returning items or not. But ISR guys search for the hardware from suppliers in the wrong way.

Community also has been given discount on beta products, so that is a little bit something to think about.

Well surprise surprise. I am also of the opinion that most of the 'pro' reviews done on any kind of product or application/game is biased because of this. Although not all of it, but most for sure.
This is also the reason I always look for user opinions and reviews before purchasing anything.

I agree, there are products that need to be send back. Strangely enough however you rarely hear about this, let alone that they mention they will make sure to buy it for comparison in future reviews or because they themselves liked it.
Indeed I said the same thing basically in my post, the ways ISR use get their hands on stuff aren't right.

I know Thomas gives a discount to us testers here as well, but I hope that everyone here knows from my tone and mindset about matters that I won't go easy on Thomas because of it. I'll try to be as fair and objective as possible, even though I am of course excited like everyone else about these new wheels.
Again I'll do my best not to let anyone down because of anything. Not myself, Thomas (who always says he wants an honest review so he can improve the product where possible) nor the community.

ilonioum
Totally agree with you on this :) LF is exactly the kind of guy I would read the review of, he knows how to deliver and knows where to seek and has a lot of willing for all of that.

LF, this a compliment.

Thanks for your kind words. I hope I won't let you or anyone down when the time comes. I'm afraid of doing the review actually since I am starting to feel the pressure rising. ;)

Caz
Logi you left crispy out. He is also doing a great job on his ongoing writeup ;)

I did?! I am sure I said everyone though but for the heck of it since I don't know if I said anything about Crispy his review yet.
My humblest apologies to you Crispy. Your doing a great job and I'm checking your threat like everyone else's every day for updates. Well for those that promised they would add more info.
Just keep going and don't forget... this might be a once in a lifetime opportunity so enjoy it while it lasts. ;)
 
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You may have, its 6 am here. Just getting out of work
Been up since 6am yesterday. Worked 8-12 volunteered daughters school 12-3 worked till 6 then again at 10 last night. Time for some
<zzzzzzzzzz#


Ps, started redesigning ;) got a one sided mockup going with little.big planet ;) to test functionality lol. Crude,but effective.
 
Caz
You may have, its 6 am here. Just getting out of work
Been up since 6am yesterday. Worked 8-12 volunteered daughters school 12-3 worked till 6 then again at 10 last night. Time for some
<zzzzzzzzzz#

Ps, started redesigning ;) got a one sided mockup going with little.big planet ;) to test functionality lol. Crude,but effective.

Wow! Better get some well deserved shut eye then. ;)

For some reason I wish I could see some live action of that mock up. Sounds fun. lol
I never knew LBP could be used for that as well. Hopefully you will spam me something some of these days again as I was just thinking yesterday if you had progressed or not. ;)

Anyhow goodnight mate. I'm getting out of bed now, although I've been awake and spamming a lot from my iPhone for about 2 hours. Guess I am lazy, but I gotta go to a doctors appointment so I'll have to. Ugh... :(
 
As a matter of fact, we did not send review units to any press accounts yet. ISR complains that they did not get the product but they were not the only one.

And why are they so in a hurry? It took months to make the GT5 review because they waited that the game gets all the patches. ISR knows that we still try to improve the firmware and driver so there should be no rush to publish a review out, right?

Darin claims that his review will be "objective" but at the same time he now claims that the CSR wheel has a lot of issues and we used customers as betatesters.
I am happy to tell you that in fact we were able to improve the quality drastically and that the defective rate of the CSR wheel is well below 1%. Of course I can proof that with hard facts and not just based on some end user reports in some forums. (Darin never had access to such information as was working primarily in PR)

Statements like that makes it easy for the viewer or reader to make up his mind how much a Fanatec review on ISR is really worth at the moment.

I still have a great relationship with Shaun who ownes 50% of ISR (as far as I heard) and I would love to work with ISR on reviews.
Some time ago, ISR decided that Darin will not work on Fanatec reviews as he is biased. The question ISR has to answer now is what makes Darin now less biased after he left Endor and that the split was "so so" like Darin puts it by himself?
 
Also to mention that Amar and Sandbox did great work in their reviews and I trust them. Also Micheal Maine or something did a good job.


Im not wanting to be seen as blowing my own trumpet but Ive really in a nerdy way been enjoying having the wheels and pedals to review. Without criticising others or other forums Ive not seen a review go perhaps the way Ive personally looked at doing my own. Ive bummed n blowed about doing a good report but I will fulfill that and feel it is an obligation, not to Thomas but to friends here and if Im honest to myself as its a thing I enjoy doing.

Do remember though guys I think some good chaps here will be updating their own reviews with the latest firmware and more time testing so all the reviews here I reckon will get much more stuff.

Firstly from me you will get a much closer look at the wheel and its body/rim insides. Not just stating oh its metal, oh its cheap plastic etc, going further in showing the build components and quality. Also highlighting once again in photos things that perhaps raise a concern or should be noted. I have probably more criticisms than most but I understand in reporting these many are minor or not likely a problem for others.





I dont want to give away all the stuff Im doing but one thing I have done is take GT5 on both wheels on a track and done like a breakdown of the track, how the wheel responds feels in each main corner. Photographing this corner to let people get a better impression. Ideally to give a detailed account of how both wheels perform different but also how one perhaps has FFB effects in places you dont seem to feel on the other. This all had to be scrapped due to the new firmware and all tests needing redone giving a new corner by corner track analysis for the T500RS/CSR Elite in GT5.

My own problem is limited free time yet I have spent over 60 hours working with the products, doing friggin photos, picking ones, editing them for just the upcoming pedal comparison alone.

That Michael guy did say some good things about the wheel in general. Im not so harsh on the rim, again as rims are expensive and well the T500RS rim by my accounts isnt any better. However really he didnt look at the products properly regards the Elite pedals, very poor and basic in that part of his review. Although he did say this was his first ever review and my main issue was more that he compares a $150 pedals to his own advanced sim ones not comparing them to say G25/G27 and the following:





If your going to do it, might as well, err do it well :)




Patience lads more info from others and myself will keep coming.
Besides we have many new owners getting theirs too so will be loads of more to come on this wheel for sure.

As for ISR I said it before, they are nothing without good products to review.
Darin imo should realise without Thomas they would not of had the success or exposure they got.
Certainly not impressed with his actions and to me I think Shaun should have more time on the show and Darin perhaps concentrating the forums they have and his own community.
 
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Fanatec...
As a matter of fact, we did not send review units to any press accounts yet. ISR complains that they did not get the product but they were not the only one.

And why are they so in a hurry? It took months to make the GT5 review because they waited that the game gets all the patches. ISR knows that we still try to improve the firmware and driver so there should be no rush to publish a review out, right?

Darin claims that his review will be "objective" but at the same time he now claims that the CSR wheel has a lot of issues and we used customers as betatesters.
I am happy to tell you that in fact we were able to improve the quality drastically and that the defective rate of the CSR wheel is well below 1%. Of course I can proof that with hard facts and not just based on some end user reports in some forums. (Darin never had access to such information as was working primarily in PR)

Statements like that makes it easy for the viewer or reader to make up his mind how much a Fanatec review on ISR is really worth at the moment.

I still have a great relationship with Shaun who ownes 50% of ISR (as far as I heard) and I would love to work with ISR on reviews.
Some time ago, ISR decided that Darin will not work on Fanatec reviews as he is biased. The question ISR has to answer now is what makes Darin now less biased after he left Endor and that the split was "so so" like Darin puts it by himself?

I hear you Thomas. I was thinking the same things more or less after reading things on iRacing.
I don't know why there is a rush now either, but to me this rush feels like they want to get their hands on an early model with a firmware that is still buggy. Just to basically proof Darin his point.

Also the fact that Shaun owns ISR and the fact that the two are real life buddies for quite some time makes me weary of the fact that Shaun is likely to backup Darin in this case. Also even if Shaun did a review the influence of Darin because of their connections and so on will be great. So I highly doubt that if you send in a wheel it will be an honest and objective review from them at this point in time. And if I may be so free to give you advice if you decide to send in one, then make sure you do it by the time the wheels have most of their firmware issues resolved. That way they won't have much to complain about anymore.
But yeah the show and Darin have lost their credibility and it won't return any time soon, not until their mentality changes visually over the course of time by how they act in public. With that I mean fora like this or iRacing but also through their own forum and show.

Btw Thomas, I thought you had completely pulled the plug from your connections with ISR because of Shaun supporting Darin and so on. I guess they are just simply whining. I have to say though that I haven't read their posts on their forum as of writing.

On the note of defects from the CSR wheels, for as far as I can tell the complaints went down rapidly to almost non existent. So I am sure that 1% you speak of is correct without knowing the figures. Besides most buyers you never hear from online unless they have a problem. Hence it always looks worse then it is. ;)

Anyway I hope not much harm is done to Endor by all this gossip, but I wouldn't blame you if you were to sue Darin if he signed a non-disclosure agreement. Like a famous saying goes "if you play with fire your likely to get burned", talking about Darin that is.

On a side note: I doubt you had time for those questions yet we sent to you via amf7? Which I can imagine is probably forgotten due to all of this and other stuff. Or at least is on a side burner.
 
Yeh I can imagine he is very busy..

DG said he'd do it on what I guess was his last day as he told me he was stepping down from pr.. although he didn't mention he was leaving.

Then he ignored my final email about who to contact then you Logiforce gave me one of Thomas's emails!
 
Looking forward to your reviews Mr. Latte :) when is the csr elite pedal review coming out? Great job so far with these teaser pics/info your getting into every little detail on these products
 
Yeh I can imagine he is very busy..

DG said he'd do it on what I guess was his last day as he told me he was stepping down from pr.. although he didn't mention he was leaving.

Then he ignored my final email about who to contact then you Logiforce gave me one of Thomas's emails!

EDIT: Sorry amf, took it out of context. I assumed. And we know what happens with MOST assumptions. And you should have seen the war of words on iRacing. Was quite a show for a little. In the end, imho Darin is slightly spoiled and outspoken @ times.

I, for one, am chomping at the bit for the CSW & CSS(Aren't we all). But will wait for the testing and procedures to take its time before I make a $750+ commitment. I would rather wait and get a fully tested and RELIABLE product.

Take that Eutechnyx!
 
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