Fanatec CSL DD: Entry Level, $350 Direct Drive Wheel

Discussion in 'Sim Racing Hardware' started by GTPNewsWire, Apr 20, 2021.

  1. super_gt

    super_gt

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    I would expect that only from the Podium series pedals. They will most likely need their own power supply and they will be quite expensive.
    (This is just a guess on my part, nothing more)
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
  2. Stoop Solo

    Stoop Solo

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    A welcome development. I suppose I should be annoyed I ordered the CSL Elite PS4 a month before they announced this, but somehow I'm only very marginally irritated. Probably because I actually have the thing right now, and it's a pretty decent base.

    As a bonus, using the drivehub on it gives it PS3 compatibility.
     
  3. Mr Sausage

    Mr Sausage

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    I've been watching this thread with great interest even though I am very happy with my Clubsport V2.5 and have no plans (or reason for that matter) to change. But this change in direction of technology at the lower to mid tier reminds me of my earliest simming days when at first it was the gear driven Microsoft Sidewinder which was the ubiquitous wheel whilst in the other corner was the long forgotten red Logitech wheel that was belt driven. You could either have that "detailed" feedback that was rather notchy and crunchy via thegears or the far smoother belt driven feedback from that Logitech.

    Logitech of course never repeated that belt drive (which was built like a tank) and as we know they have been geared ever since. But after knowing what the difference was between gears and smooth belt drive, I bought my first Fanatec belt drive (one of the Porsche wheels) once my G25 died.

    I am sure Fanatec won't mind me saying many years down the track that although that first Porsche wheel of mine was much smoother than any Logitech, I missed the Logitech's "immediacy" and "detail" by comparison. Plus there was the inherent extra friction from the Fanatec that did not exist with the Logitechs (though Fanatec mitigated that to some extent with their "drift" modes).

    It actually took me till I got my Clubsport V 2.5 where I have enjoyed the best of both worlds (detail, very low friction - no "drift assist" needed, immediacy and smoothness) so for Fanatec to move in this direction after achieving so much with belt drive technology was quite surprising to me. That said, I naively had always wondered why all wheels were not direct drive because mechanically it was far simpler with much less to go wrong or need maintenance. It was only when I educated myself as to the engineering / electrical challenges involved in direct drive wheels did I understand why it was such an expensive technology.

    Whatever the case I will be very interested to see how this goes and how well Fanatec has met the difficult challenges involved in creating what is effectively a mainstream DD wheel at a belt / gear drive price. That said, there is a side of that can't help thinking there may nevertheless remain some Clubsport belt drive stalwarts who will prefer the (probably much less exciting) very smooth feedback offered by what I now guess might have been Fanatec's last belt drive wheel. Will they become collector's items like high end Voodoo graphics cards or merely conversation trivia years down the track?
     
  4. kikie

    kikie Premium

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    Belt-driven Logitech wheel?

    https://simracingcockpit.com/fanatec-csl-dd/
     
  5. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

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    Exactly my thought too! So I went on a bit of a hunt and it looks to have some weird combination of cogs and belt. I'm no better off understanding it though :dopey:.

    Untitled.png

    From here:
     
  6. Mr Sausage

    Mr Sausage

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    No, it was officially called the "Wingman Formula Force". Built like a tank. There was also a belt driven companion force feedback joystick.

    https://www.pcstats.com/articles/61/index.html
     
  7. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

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    2,907
    Odd, the only thing I can find about that one says it has 'Exclusive I-Force feedback steel-cable drive technology'.

    https://sites.google.com/site/lucasmarshvuzv/logitech-wingman-formula-force-racing-wheel



    I don't doubt it has belt drive though as I don't know where these sources got their info from.
     
  8. Mr Sausage

    Mr Sausage

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    Well I think the "belt" was possibly a cable of sorts but it was obviously still a "belt" in the same way you have a "belt" than runs a CVT transmission in a car. They did use the term "cable" in the joystick definitely - I remember reading about it and I owned one of those too. I never actually opened up my Wingman though to be certain if it was a cable or a belt. Either way, it obviously was not geared - so I think this was the first and last Logitech non-geared Force Feedback wheel.
     
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  9. PJTierney

    PJTierney

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    It looks like a few of the gear channels are getting their CSL DDs this week, so hopefully not long before we see reviews :)
     
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  10. Mr Sausage

    Mr Sausage

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    Hopefully Barry from SRG - my "go to" channel for the most detailed reviews out there. I know what he thinks of something will be almost identical to what I will think of it.
     
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  11. PJTierney

    PJTierney

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    Ah yes, the simracing equivalent of ASMR :D

    I think him, Boosted Media and Chris Haye are the 3 that got the most votes on the Fanatec forum, all great choices.
     
  12. super_gt

    super_gt

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    "UPDATE

    The result of the poll is clearly showing the 3 winners: Sim Racing Garage, Boosted Media, and Chris Haye.

    However, after speaking with Barry from Sim Racing Garage, he stated that he would rather wait for the final retail version of the CSL DD to put it through the normal Sim Racing Garage review process, which means that his review will come later. Barry is doing things properly and this is why he is so popular so how can we not respect that decision? But rest assured he will be in the first batch of the final review samples and he will take his time to make a thorough analysis and the deep review this product deserves, Instead of Sim Racing Garage, the third early CSL DD unit and CSL Pedals will go to YouTube channel GamerMuscleVideos.

    All three are excellent choices and I can't wait to see the results.

    Keep in mind that these are only the first three test units, there will be plenty more full review units closer to the actual release date and thank you for all the suggestions for additional reviewers. Please feel free to add more and we will take care of them.

    These units are pre-production, which means some aspects of them are not up to the specification of the actual retail units. Boosted Media, Chris Haye, and GamerMuscleVideos will be able drive with them using any game they wish, and test the force feedback with and without the Boost Kit 180. They will also be able to try out the new CSL Pedals for the first time, together with some of its accessories. Of course we will share the videos with you as soon as they roll in."
     
  13. SlowGrayAudi

    SlowGrayAudi

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    Maybe they should give us an actual release date
     
  14. Racer294

    Racer294

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    They, Fanatec, still need to release more info and price for the M4 GT3 rim.
     
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  15. PJTierney

    PJTierney

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    I can appreciate SRG's approach here, and the 3 with pre-production units are all great choices so I'm sure we'll get decent impressions all-round.
     
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  16. super_gt

    super_gt

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    That's when the reviews can be expected:

    3.png
     
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  17. SlowGrayAudi

    SlowGrayAudi

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    Well done from these guys. Super professional!
     
  18. kikie

    kikie Premium

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    June 4th. My inner child is getting impatient. They are torturing us me.
     
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  19. super_gt

    super_gt

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    Last edited: Jun 1, 2021
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  20. twoskodas

    twoskodas

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    130 Euro to upgrade a power pack for the 8nm version :eek::eek::grumpy::grumpy: seams a bit :censored: much
     
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  21. super_gt

    super_gt

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    I have to agree.
    Mean Well GST280A48-C6P(48V, 5.84A, 280W) is the power supply for SimuCube 2 Sport 17Nm DD and costs 91 euros including 20% VAT.
     
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  22. twoskodas

    twoskodas

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    i would love to here a official explanation of how they came to that price point,seams very excessive
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2021
  23. DomB_Fanatec

    DomB_Fanatec

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    The CSL DD plus Boost Kit 180 is priced 70 EUR lower than the ClubSport Wheel Base V2.5 and has significantly higher performance. There is no other product on the market at this price that offers this level of performance and features. The Boost Kit 180 is optional. The CSL DD with standard power supply is also offers remarkable performance for its price level.
     
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  24. MrCrynox

    MrCrynox

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    Ha ha ha. A £20 PSU for 130 euro, what an absolute joke. Well done Fanatec. This should be supplied as standard, disgusting behaviour.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2021
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  25. VFOURMAX1

    VFOURMAX1

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    So basically with this pricing scheme adding $130 U.S. to the price to buy it with the 8nm upgrade over the 5nm power unit base price.

    So what this amounts to they are only allowing you basically a credit of $20 U.S. for them keeping the 5nm power supply versus the price of buying the base unit and then buying the 8nm power supply separately as that power supply alone is only $149 when bought extra or later.
    Seems this is sort of a rip off for the customers that buy the unit with the 8nm power supply and only save $20 over those that physically get both the 5nm and 8nm power supply.

    I bet down the road if the wheel is out of warranty and you need to replace the power brick they will not sell you the 5nm powerbrick for anywhere close to $20!
     
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  26. aaron0288

    aaron0288

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    Spin it all you like, none of that takes away from the fact you’re charging €130 for a power supply...

    Base price at €399 and the 8nm version €449. Still would’ve got all your headlines. Be interesting to hear from the reviewers soon. I’d certainly like to think Boosted Media would have something to say about the ridiculous price hike.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2021
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  27. Whitestar

    Whitestar Premium

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    Not to defend that PSU price or anything, but I would say that if, if the CSL DD has significantly higher performance than the v2.5 then that's a very good deal when looking at the big picture.
     
  28. Goonie75

    Goonie75

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    Yes that is still a good price, but most of your potential buyers for this product aren't stupid, they still know the Boost kit power supply is a rip off, and they know you are deliberately pricing CSL DD with boast kit just under the CSW 2.5 even thou the only difference is the over priced boost kit power supply.

    You are also opening yourselves up for potential warranty issues when people try and use a more reasonably priced power supply to get the extra performance.

    Fanatec you really didn't read the room very well on that one.

    upload_2021-6-2_18-10-23.jpeg

    You were so close, at least you can use this as a "what not to do" in your next marketing meeting.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2021
  29. twoskodas

    twoskodas

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    seams to me that your asking boost kit buyers to subsidise the cheaper option,should be buy the dd and add the power pack of choice,otherwise you’re giving the lower power pack for nothing
     
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  30. Rob Brown

    Rob Brown

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    If you read between the lines, the answer is: [drum roll]
    The people with the marketing degrees have to extract their income from somewhere!
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2021
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