Fanatec CSL DD: Entry Level, $350 Direct Drive Wheel

385
Germany
Germany
Hi everyone,



We are investigating an issue that prevented some customers who were eligible for the Wave 1 pre-order from being on the master list.

We're also working through some technical issues that is still preventing some customers from completing a CSL DD pre-order.

'Wave 1' is still open, so for those who have access to the CSL DD on the site, it should be possible for you to place a pre-order once these issues are resolved, so I suggest that you keep checking the site every few hours.

We hope to transition to 'Wave 2' within the next week, so those who missed 'Wave 1' should soon have access to the CSL DD section of the website.

We apologise for the inconvenience and we appreciate your patience.
 
1,817
United States
United States
Hi everyone,



We are investigating an issue that prevented some customers who were eligible for the Wave 1 pre-order from being on the master list.

We're also working through some technical issues that is still preventing some customers from completing a CSL DD pre-order.

'Wave 1' is still open, so for those who have access to the CSL DD on the site, it should be possible for you to place a pre-order once these issues are resolved, so I suggest that you keep checking the site every few hours.

We hope to transition to 'Wave 2' within the next week, so those who missed 'Wave 1' should soon have access to the CSL DD section of the website.

We apologise for the inconvenience and we appreciate your patience.
It is awesome to see someone associated with the manufacturer come on here and acknowledge there were issues with accessing the website and new product for some customers and looking to try to rectify that problem for those customers as well.

My personal experiences using Fanatec products over the last few years has been nothing but positive over a spread of a number of different products and yes I see some of the stories talking about issues and or poor customer service but my personal dealings with Fanatec do not reflect that negativity.

But DomB thanks for keeping the community apprised of what is going on concerning the pre order issues for some potential customers! I know I personally appreciate seeing the effort being put forth.
 
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Whitestar

Premium
1,861
Norway
Norway
Whitestar127
A couple more questions about the 8Nm version:

1. Google tells me that DD wheels have no clipping, is that correct? The CSW 2.5 settings for most games recommends you set Gain to 70 (to avoid clipping?). Which means there's theoretically 30% force left on the table. So if the CSL DD has no clipping then that means you can actually have the full 8Nm and thus 30% more force than the CSW 2.5? Sorry if I misunderstand or simplify too much here.

2. Will the CSL DD handle heavier equipment (for example the R330 rim + Podium hub) better than the CSW 2.5? I mean, since it has faster response and you can presumably (see question 1) set the FF 30% higher. Or will the FFB be dampened (by heavy weight) just as much on the CSL DD?
 
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64
Germany
Germany
1. That's wrong. If you use bad settings even a DD2 can have Clipping.
You should read a bit on forums and documentations about Clipping in Simracing to understand it.

2. Most likely yes because of the faster acceleration
 

Whitestar

Premium
1,861
Norway
Norway
Whitestar127
1. That's wrong. If you use bad settings even a DD2 can have Clipping.
Looks like you are correct, thanks. I wonder how high the Gain for the CSL DD can be set in most games then, compared to the CSW 2.5, without (too much) clipping. Hope some reviews will answer this.
 
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1,817
United States
United States
Looks like you are correct, thanks. I wonder how high the Gain for the CSL DD can be set in most games then, compared to the CSW 2.5, without (too much) clipping. Hope some reviews will answer this.

Actually the advantage of the DD platform is not in its output power, basically 8nm of output power is still 8nm of output power regardless of how the platform achieves that final number. Also the motor will still need the headroom of extra constantly unused power to handle the power spikes without exceeding the level of sustainable power that the motor is capable of outputting and when the level the motor is attempting to output surpasses those sustainable levels that is what is known as clipping. That does not change regardless of how the motor system is configured.

The big difference for the DD is in its transmission of the fine details and the speed that the DD platform can relay that that information to the player and the player can relay information back to the game versus the other types of units such as a belt drive. Millisecond differences in those times can be critical when it comes to saving the car or crashing the car.

Basically a belt drive unit for instance consist of belts, idler pulleys and drive pulleys and even the belt or belts themselves. Each different piece or component or slack between parts even as small as a shaft to a bushing can increase inconsistency or add critical time from in that change and transition or "middle man" that to an extent absorbs a bit of the information that the game is transmitting to the player and also each transition also adds just a bit of time between the actual time the game transmits that information to the time the player receives or feels it.

So what happens is the information takes a little longer and is slightly watered down due to the transmission between the parts and even absorbed by the belt material itself.

Now take a direct drive system the information to the game is transferred from the game to the wheel motor, in turn the DD system uses no middle men, no belts, gears pulleys but that information is transferred straight from the base to the shaft of the motor that the Steering wheel connects to eliminating all of those middle men that other systems use that due to their inherent nature absorb some of the feeling and add time to the information reaching the player and the players reaction being transmitted back to the game.

This is the advantage of the DD motor system which is directly connecting the motors shaft to the steering wheel and to the game and not losing information or delaying the response either in or out nothing to do really with the power output.

Sorry such a long post but to adequately make the difference more understandable need to go into a fair amount of detail.
 
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kikie

I'm here
Premium
24,034
Belgium
in the land of stupidity
Actually the advantage of the DD platform is not in its output power, basically 8nm of output power is still 8nm of output power regardless of how the platform achieves that final number. Also the motor will still need the headroom of extra constantly unused power to handle the power spikes without exceeding the level of sustainable power that the motor is capable of outputting and when the level the motor is attempting to output surpasses those sustainable levels that is what is known as clipping. That does not change regardless of how the motor system is configured.

The big difference for the DD is in its transmission of the fine details and the speed that the DD platform can relay that that information to the player and the player can relay information back to the game versus the other types of units such as a belt drive. Millisecond differences in those times can be critical when it comes to saving the car or crashing the car.

Basically a belt drive unit for instance consist of belts, idler pulleys and drive pulleys and even the belt or belts themselves. Each different piece or component or slack between parts even as small as a shaft to a bushing can increase inconsistency or add critical time from in that change and transition or "middle man" that to an extent absorbs a bit of the information that the game is transmitting to the player and also each transition also adds just a bit of time between the actual time the game transmits that information to the time the player receives or feels it.

So what happens is the information takes a little longer and is slightly watered down due to the transmission between the parts and even absorbed by the belt material itself.

Now take a direct drive system the information to the game is transferred from the game to the wheel motor, in turn the DD system uses no middle men, no belts, gears pulleys but that information is transferred straight from the base to the shaft of the motor that the Steering wheel connects to eliminating all of those middle men that other systems use that due to their inherent nature absorb some of the feeling and add time to the information reaching the player and the players reaction being transmitted back to the game.

This is the advantage of the DD motor system which is directly connecting the motors shaft to the steering wheel and to the game and not losing information or delaying the response either in or out nothing to do really with the power output.

Sorry such a long post but to adequately make the difference more understandable need to go into a fair amount of detail.
I don't like reading lon(er) posts but yours is a very good explanation. 👍 I read the entire post.
 

Whitestar

Premium
1,861
Norway
Norway
Whitestar127
Actually the advantage of the DD platform is not in its output power, basically 8nm of output power is still 8nm of output power regardless of how the platform achieves that final number. Also the motor will still need the headroom of extra constantly unused power to handle the power spikes without exceeding the level of sustainable power that the motor is capable of outputting and when the level the motor is attempting to output surpasses those sustainable levels that is what is known as clipping. That does not change regardless of how the motor system is configured.

The big difference for the DD is in its transmission of the fine details and the speed that the DD platform can relay that that information to the player and the player can relay information back to the game versus the other types of units such as a belt drive. Millisecond differences in those times can be critical when it comes to saving the car or crashing the car.

Basically a belt drive unit for instance consist of belts, idler pulleys and drive pulleys and even the belt or belts themselves. Each different piece or component or slack between parts even as small as a shaft to a bushing can increase inconsistency or add critical time from in that change and transition or "middle man" that to an extent absorbs a bit of the information that the game is transmitting to the player and also each transition also adds just a bit of time between the actual time the game transmits that information to the time the player receives or feels it.

So what happens is the information takes a little longer and is slightly watered down due to the transmission between the parts and even absorbed by the belt material itself.

Now take a direct drive system the information to the game is transferred from the game to the wheel motor, in turn the DD system uses no middle men, no belts, gears pulleys but that information is transferred straight from the base to the shaft of the motor that the Steering wheel connects to eliminating all of those middle men that other systems use that due to their inherent nature absorb some of the feeling and add time to the information reaching the player and the players reaction being transmitted back to the game.

This is the advantage of the DD motor system which is directly connecting the motors shaft to the steering wheel and to the game and not losing information or delaying the response either in or out nothing to do really with the power output.

Sorry such a long post but to adequately make the difference more understandable need to go into a fair amount of detail.
Good info. Most of the other stuff I more or less knew from before but thanks for clearing up the bit about clipping.
 

Whitestar

Premium
1,861
Norway
Norway
Whitestar127
The Fanatec EU web pages seem to be a mess right now. All formatting is gone and suddenly I can't log in with my password. I requested a new password and it said a mail was sent, but no. :boggled:
 
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Famine

GTPEDIA Author
Administrator
72,263
United Kingdom
Rule 12
GTP_Famine
The Fanatec EU web pages seem to be a mess right now. All formatting is gone and suddenly I can't log in with my password. I requested a new password and it said a mail was sent, but no. :boggled:
Perhaps connected to the global Fastly outage?
 
145
Ireland
Ireland
Can someone please explain if you have to use a compatibility mode for older games using the csl dd on Xbox,will this reduce the FFB sensations coming thru the wheel or does it have no effect on FFB. Thanks in advance
 
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45
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Can someone please explain if you have to use a compatibility mode for older games using the csl dd on Xbox,will this reduce the FFB sensations coming thru the wheel or does it have no effect on FFB. Thanks in advance
All wheels on Xbox One/Series have to conform to Microsoft's Xbox wheel specifications, so if an Xbox game supports FFB wheels then all Xbox-compatible FFB wheels will work.
 
145
Ireland
Ireland
All wheels on Xbox One/Series have to conform to Microsoft's Xbox wheel specifications, so if an Xbox game supports FFB wheels then all Xbox-compatible FFB wheels will work.
. Great explanation, thanks ,i was just worried about full functionality on my older driving game’s
 
385
Germany
Germany
@LOGI_Rich is correct.

There is no compatibility mode for Xbox. You could say that this is one benefit to the restrictions that Microsoft have put on input devices - it means that everything works.

Much like the Podium wheel bases, the CSL DD has a compatibility mode for PC, where it appears to the PC as a ClubSport Wheel Base V2.5, which can help with device detection and support for additional features like steering wheel rev lights in some older games. The fidelity/strength of the force feedback is not affected.
 
145
Ireland
Ireland
@LOGI_Rich is correct.

There is no compatibility mode for Xbox. You could say that this is one benefit to the restrictions that Microsoft have put on input devices - it means that everything works.

Much like the Podium wheel bases, the CSL DD has a compatibility mode for PC, where it appears to the PC as a ClubSport Wheel Base V2.5, which can help with device detection and support for additional features like steering wheel rev lights in some older games. The fidelity/strength of the force feedback is not affected.
Thankyou for clarifying that,i still play alot of assetto corsa and pcars 1 and 2
 
4,454
Bulgaria
Bulgaria
Much like the Podium wheel bases, the CSL DD has a compatibility mode for PC, where it appears to the PC as a ClubSport Wheel Base V2.5, which can help with device detection and support for additional features like steering wheel rev lights in some older games.
I wonder if in this mode with DriveHub will work on PS4 and with the appropriate controller on PS5.
 
1,287
United States
The Planet Dirt (Earth)
A question for anyone who can answer it.

How difficult is it to remove the power cord at the base of the CSL DD?

The reason I ask, is I regularly connect/disconnect my CSR at the base when I am setting up or tearing my wheel stand down when I want to use my wheel and pedals. If I can continue doing this with the CSL DD, that would be nice but seeing that the power connection is a 4 pin PC power connection, I don't want to break it. So I'd just strap the PSU to my stand, and properly plug it in.
 
4,081
Ireland
Warwick, UK
PJTierney
PJTierney
@LOGI_Rich is correct.

There is no compatibility mode for Xbox. You could say that this is one benefit to the restrictions that Microsoft have put on input devices - it means that everything works.

Much like the Podium wheel bases, the CSL DD has a compatibility mode for PC, where it appears to the PC as a ClubSport Wheel Base V2.5, which can help with device detection and support for additional features like steering wheel rev lights in some older games. The fidelity/strength of the force feedback is not affected.
Yup, it's unfortunate to lose some of the fancier Fanatec features that you get with a bespoke SDK (PC/PlayStation), but on the plus-side I can plug in any wheel and it "just works".

The WRC wheel for example isn't natively supported in DiRT Rally 2.0, but on Xbox it works no problem as the console just thinks it's a generic steering wheel.
 
451
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
I wonder if in this mode with DriveHub will work on PS4 and with the appropriate controller on PS5.

I'd wait and see what appears for the PS5 version, given that all controllers/wheels on PS4 work on PS5 I'd say there is a reasonable chance it'll work on a PS4.
 
1,817
United States
United States
I'd wait and see what appears for the PS5 version, given that all controllers/wheels on PS4 work on PS5 I'd say there is a reasonable chance it'll work on a PS4.
Just saw on a Fanatec facebook feed where a customer in the comments ask when the PS 4/5 CLS DD version would be available and there was a response from Fanatec that it would be available this year.

I would guess with the current versions having a tentative Sept and OCT. ship date that perhaps the PS5 version maybe shipping in Nov.- Dec.
There was no indication of when that may come up for pre order or its release price or if it would require a bundle with a wheel or be available solo on its own.
below is the Fanatec response,
Fanatec
We plan to ship it this year as well so if you have a PS4 or PS5 then I suggest to wait.
 
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451
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
So for all the fanfare about low prices this is still more or less a grands worth of kit I think?

Base & 8nm power suply £480
Cheapest wheel £350
CSL pedals £80
Load cell for the above £TBC

So maybe £950. Add to that the playstation tax for that version.

If fanatec want to tempt people away from their thrustmasters & logitechs I think there must be another product coming ?
Or they are quite happy being a high end product and want to leave the lower end of the market alone I guess.

I would have thought that if people are prepared to spent £300+ on a G923/T300 you could probably tempt them with a £400+ fanatec product fairly easily ? Not necessarily not direct drive, but a quality reliable product that isn't 15+ year old tech ?
 
1,817
United States
United States
So for all the fanfare about low prices this is still more or less a grands worth of kit I think?

Base & 8nm power suply £480
Cheapest wheel £350
CSL pedals £80
Load cell for the above £TBC

So maybe £950. Add to that the playstation tax for that version.

If fanatec want to tempt people away from their thrustmasters & logitechs I think there must be another product coming ?
Or they are quite happy being a high end product and want to leave the lower end of the market alone I guess.

Actually you can buy the McLaren GT wheel or the WRC round wheel for about $200 so that lowers the price. Also you can buy the 5nm unit for like $350 which would be more beginner level than the 8nm model.

This is being marketed as it always has and at about the same price point as in the past to be an upgrade from the Beginner Logitech and Thrustmaster offerings. Not to try to compete in that market.

Where this is a big deal is it does offer an entrance point to DD wheel ownership at a much lower price point than in the past. In that respect you could call it a beginner DD wheelbase.

Fanatec has always been considered an upgrade choice not a cheap entry level product.
 
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451
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
According to the product page, it isn't compatible with the Mclaren wheel - Podium, Clubsport and CSL wheels only.

My point was that this isn't really a competitor for the logitechs/thrustmasters as was discussed earlier in the thread. imho they need a product at around half the price of this to do that.
 
1,817
United States
United States
The McLaren wheel is a CSL wheel.
My point was that this isn't really a competitor for the logitechs/thrustmasters as was discussed earlier in the thread. imho they need a product at around half the price of this to do that

The Fanatec product line is not pretending to try to be a cheap box store entry level wheel, they never have been in that market segment.
 
1,314
United Kingdom
Coventry
graveltrap
So for all the fanfare about low prices this is still more or less a grands worth of kit I think?

Base & 8nm power suply £480
Cheapest wheel £350
CSL pedals £80
Load cell for the above £TBC

So maybe £950. Add to that the playstation tax for that version.

If fanatec want to tempt people away from their thrustmasters & logitechs I think there must be another product coming ?
Or they are quite happy being a high end product and want to leave the lower end of the market alone I guess.

I would have thought that if people are prepared to spent £300+ on a G923/T300 you could probably tempt them with a £400+ fanatec product fairly easily ? Not necessarily not direct drive, but a quality reliable product that isn't 15+ year old tech ?

Wheelbase + 8Nm PSU + McLaren V2 Rim = 571.35 Euro + VAT & Shipping to the UK.

I would guess this will be the sort of price point for PS setup (drop the PSU and add the pedals + PS tax). Upgrades of course available at extra cost ;) As mentioned above this isn't entry level gear in the greater scheme of things!
 
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