Feedback on accident plz
- Thread starter racer_xis
- 44 comments
- 1,669 views
marvthegamer
Premium
- 51
- Los Angeles, CA
- marvinthepianist
Oof, hard to see because of resolution but I would say that from the angle we can see it was a clean overtake by the white car, since it sorta had the inside already and the other car should have backed off a bit. But honestly, it looks like a simple racing incident, doesn’t look like it was on purpose to me.
- 16,271
- Boise, ID
- GTP_EDK
Hard to tell without onboard footage from both of those drivers, but it looks like the Lamborghini made an optimistic lunge in a spot that's not great for overtaking, and then could not hold his side of the corner. He ended up hitting the Mustang when he entered "his side" of the track.
He established full overlap before turn in, but it was still a bit of a dive bomb, in the sense that he outbraked himself and likely would not have made the corner cleanly from that spot, even if no other cars were present.
- 1,090
- Norwich
- TheNorfolkDad
The white lambo is in the wrong. Looks like he swerves back into the mustang before the corner whereas the mustang looks like he’s maintaining the outside so not to hit him.
Shouldn’t be overtaking there anyway.
Shouldn’t be overtaking there anyway.
marvthegamer
Premium
- 51
- Los Angeles, CA
- marvinthepianist
Agree, 99% of the time an overtake attempt there ends up with someone’s car being used as a turn in wall.
- 1,324
- Toronto
- 16,271
- Boise, ID
- GTP_EDK
That's what I'm trying to say. I'm not sure he would have made the corner from that spot, at that speed.
He might still have run wide to his right if not for the Mustang being there. It's speculative from that angle, without an on board view.
But I can tell you that I would not have tried that move right there, it's not a good spot for overtaking on those tires with that power at that speed.
- 1,355
- United Kingdom
This is pretty hard to judge from this angle.
The Mustang turns in as if the Lambo isn't there though, so poor awareness from the Mustang driver, however it is very hard to tell if the Lambo has braked too late.
If the Lambo driver was braking too late and wouldn't have made the corner, it's that drivers fault.
But if the Lambo driver was going to make the corner, then the Mustang is at fault for turning in without realising an overtake attempt was made.
It's certainly a clean attempt at an overtake (as in, the Lambo driver wasn't too far behind before braking), however without knowing if the Lambo driver has broken too late, nothing certain can be said. I don't think it is possible to make a full judgement based off that footage.
The Mustang turns in as if the Lambo isn't there though, so poor awareness from the Mustang driver, however it is very hard to tell if the Lambo has braked too late.
If the Lambo driver was braking too late and wouldn't have made the corner, it's that drivers fault.
But if the Lambo driver was going to make the corner, then the Mustang is at fault for turning in without realising an overtake attempt was made.
It's certainly a clean attempt at an overtake (as in, the Lambo driver wasn't too far behind before braking), however without knowing if the Lambo driver has broken too late, nothing certain can be said. I don't think it is possible to make a full judgement based off that footage.
- 786
- United States
It's two Brazilians... So probably dirty from both! LOL (jk)
The fault, as usual in these situations, seems to be both. An optimistic dive, that we do not get to see if it could have been pulled off, and an oblivious (or unnecessarily defensive) turn-in and pinching-off by the outside car.
But one thing I have learned from racing Brazilians... they WILL go for gaps that aren't there, and cut you off mercilessly when you look like you may be able to pull off a clean pass. It's nice to see both approaches used on each other, for a change!
The fault, as usual in these situations, seems to be both. An optimistic dive, that we do not get to see if it could have been pulled off, and an oblivious (or unnecessarily defensive) turn-in and pinching-off by the outside car.
But one thing I have learned from racing Brazilians... they WILL go for gaps that aren't there, and cut you off mercilessly when you look like you may be able to pull off a clean pass. It's nice to see both approaches used on each other, for a change!
- 5,518
- Minnesota
- GTP_Ph1sh
Thats a tough situation to be in for the white lambo. I've been in that situation and what I've learned over time is you can't force the pass. You have to let it come to you. You could tell the mustang was trying to block you a little as you approach the corner as you probably had more speed as you wanted to overtake him. But in that tight of a corner I would've hung back. Keep pressuring him.
Pressuring drivers by riding on them is a smart way to be patient and wait for them to make a mistake. Once they do. You can make the pass. Otherwise another tactic I use when in that situation is stay behind him and get a faster exist speed on the straight. Slow in, fast out.
It's never a situation of who can get into the corner first, but instead who can get out of the corner faster.
Just my 2 cents 👍
Pressuring drivers by riding on them is a smart way to be patient and wait for them to make a mistake. Once they do. You can make the pass. Otherwise another tactic I use when in that situation is stay behind him and get a faster exist speed on the straight. Slow in, fast out.
It's never a situation of who can get into the corner first, but instead who can get out of the corner faster.
Just my 2 cents 👍
what is getting me confused is this article https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/
particularly this part
I wasnt sliding towards him, wasnt too fast for the corner (130kmh) and had the "advantage" listed in the article
besides that, the lobby penalties were on the hardet setting, and I didnt take any penalty for the large cut of the chicane
@Argon @Ph1sh @EDK and others
particularly this part
I wasnt sliding towards him, wasnt too fast for the corner (130kmh) and had the "advantage" listed in the article
besides that, the lobby penalties were on the hardet setting, and I didnt take any penalty for the large cut of the chicane
@Argon @Ph1sh @EDK and others
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- 1,324
- Toronto
OK after watching again and using what little info there is, it stands to reason that the front driver took an "optimal" line.
When the Mustang makes contact with the Lambo he actually has a more aggressive steering angle than the lead driver (who cut over grass), this stands to reason that the Mustang did not leave enough room for the Lambo and essentially drove as if the Lambo wasn't there.
This is a particularly hard section of track to overtake on, but the Lambo was well within right to the corner and without seeing from his view we have no way of knowing whether he was going to overshoot the apex.
With the information we have, the Mustang is clearly the at fault driver - I don't understand everyone's point of view that this was a dive, he clearly has overlap before they start braking and underbrakes the Mustang but was contacted before he began his turn in.
When the Mustang makes contact with the Lambo he actually has a more aggressive steering angle than the lead driver (who cut over grass), this stands to reason that the Mustang did not leave enough room for the Lambo and essentially drove as if the Lambo wasn't there.
This is a particularly hard section of track to overtake on, but the Lambo was well within right to the corner and without seeing from his view we have no way of knowing whether he was going to overshoot the apex.
With the information we have, the Mustang is clearly the at fault driver - I don't understand everyone's point of view that this was a dive, he clearly has overlap before they start braking and underbrakes the Mustang but was contacted before he began his turn in.
Yeah, I understand that the corner is risky to overtake and such... but DIVE? I was almost touching the back of his car, I went to the inside more to avoid contact than to overtake, but he simply braked much more and faster than me (and the driver in front of him)
- 1,324
- Toronto
I'll arrive home in a couple of hours and will upload a video with it, as soon as I do this I'll post here and tag people
- 16,271
- Boise, ID
- GTP_EDK
This is something I've done in that exact spot, as making a pass on the way up the hill or into the slow hairpin at the top is much less risky and you are more likely to pull it off.
@racer_xis you asked for a quick assessment with relatively limited information available. I play by the rule that you leave side room until you've completely cleared the driver you are overtaking. That's the reason I said what I did.
But as I originally mentioned, the viewing angle is not optimum for making a judgement. Seeing on board from each car would be the best way to judge this one.
- 786
- United States
The delay between turn-in and the car actually turning is what fools a lot of people. Without in cockpit views of both cars, it's hard to apportion blame, but from GTS's abysmal tire physics, you have to assume a turn-in from the lead car has happened WAY before you see it. Once the lead car makes that turn in, there goes those apex rights.
What the attacker is not considering is, is there any way for the outside car to not be forced off track by the exit line that late a brake line will inevitably lead to? While he is not expected to pinch you off (close the door on you!), he is also entitled to you not forcing him off on exit. Which, from the replay, looked extremely likely.
What the attacker is not considering is, is there any way for the outside car to not be forced off track by the exit line that late a brake line will inevitably lead to? While he is not expected to pinch you off (close the door on you!), he is also entitled to you not forcing him off on exit. Which, from the replay, looked extremely likely.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
I play this game so much yet I can't tell a Mustang from a Lambo 
The white car doesn't have full overlap before the braking point. I've tried that move while being almost fully ahead and still got a penalty from getting turned into, fender against rear bumper. Overtaking just doesn't work in that corner.
Yet right before contact it doesn't look like the white car is going to make it to the apex, looks like he's going wide. Very hard to tell though from that angle. White car does seem to turn slightly too little, dark car too much. Don't cross the streams!
The white car doesn't have full overlap before the braking point. I've tried that move while being almost fully ahead and still got a penalty from getting turned into, fender against rear bumper. Overtaking just doesn't work in that corner.
Yet right before contact it doesn't look like the white car is going to make it to the apex, looks like he's going wide. Very hard to tell though from that angle. White car does seem to turn slightly too little, dark car too much. Don't cross the streams!
- 1,436
- Kansas City/MO/US
- BallPtPenTheif
- BallPtPenTheif
Even if the Lambo was going to overshoot the turn due to entry speed, the Mustang should have given the Lambo space to do so and capitalize off of it to secure the position. If the Mustang would have taken a wider entry and given room he possibly would have been hit by the Lambo on the second apex but then it wouldn't be his fault.
- 3,131
- IL, USA
- DigitalBaka
- DigitalBaka587
Looks like the Lambo will shoot wide there or at the very least not leave enough room for the Mustang. Mustang also turns into the Lambo from what I see so there's fault on both sides. If I'm the Mustang I move to the middle of the track and defend from there instead of keeping on the racing line. And with the Lambo I'm with @Ph1sh and @EDK in that the better move is to lift/brake sooner and pass up the hill. I've never seen two wide in those esses end well.
- 210
- United States
For the black car it was easy to get rid of the lambo since the latter missed its breaking point, thats why the radar is paramount.
Uploaded the video with the data you were talking about
@EDK @Argon @Ph1sh @Sean Renon @marvthegamer @simsimsheree @Sven Jurgens @VeeDoubleU
Paused and showed the speeds at the moment of the accident ,including the guy ahead for reference regarding corner speed
- 1,355
- United Kingdom
delete
- 1,355
- United Kingdom
The Mustang driver is turning in more than the 1st place driver, and the 1st place driver uses all of the kerbing with the left side wheels.
The Mustang driver needs to be more aware and understand that racing isn't a single file practice session.
It's a bit tight but I think you would have been able to make the corner with the speed you had, and I think even still be able to give enough space on the outside for the Mustang driver,
If you are on the outside and someone is overtaking you on the inside, you can't just turn into the corner and then be surprised at contact. If the Mustang driver had more awareness, they would have left room on the inside rather than turning ridiculously early. You were alongside and I think would have made the corner. If you weren't alongside, then yeah it would be your fault. If you were alongside but going too fast, it would be your fault.
But you aren't. The other driver simply cannot turn in as if you don't exist. If the other driver wanted to avoid contact, they could have done so very easily.
Others might say that it is a risky corner to overtake on, but so what? It may be risky but that doesn't mean a driver should be blamed. If a driver performs a clean fair overtake (or is doing so until another driver turns in without paying attention) at a risky turn, then fair play and the driver shouldn't be criticised for it.
The Mustang driver needs to be more aware and understand that racing isn't a single file practice session.
It's a bit tight but I think you would have been able to make the corner with the speed you had, and I think even still be able to give enough space on the outside for the Mustang driver,
If you are on the outside and someone is overtaking you on the inside, you can't just turn into the corner and then be surprised at contact. If the Mustang driver had more awareness, they would have left room on the inside rather than turning ridiculously early. You were alongside and I think would have made the corner. If you weren't alongside, then yeah it would be your fault. If you were alongside but going too fast, it would be your fault.
But you aren't. The other driver simply cannot turn in as if you don't exist. If the other driver wanted to avoid contact, they could have done so very easily.
Others might say that it is a risky corner to overtake on, but so what? It may be risky but that doesn't mean a driver should be blamed. If a driver performs a clean fair overtake (or is doing so until another driver turns in without paying attention) at a risky turn, then fair play and the driver shouldn't be criticised for it.
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