FF Drifting

Discussion in 'GT4 Drifting' started by nos2, Dec 31, 2005.

  1. SWAT2291

    SWAT2291

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    118
    Hmm you could do with that much e braking... If you mix tires probably, but I'm not gonna try it and I'm probably wrong.
     
  2. -Cheezman-

    -Cheezman-

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    Location:
    United States
    Good job on the research. Kudos to you, but the truth is, no one will take a FF drifter seriously, including me, I have see plenty, and not one could come close to a rear wheel drive, front engined car... not one. And I am talking about real life, not a video game.

    Now let me ask all of you this, do you have real world drifting experience? Because I do, I have been in a few drifting cars, including a Lancer Evo VIII, 1990 Ford Mustang (Owned by my brother), 2002 WRX, Chevy Caprice Classic SS, Talon ESI AWD, Honda Civic, and Mazda 6 Sport. All of the above EXCEPT the Honda civic and Mazda 6 got sideways, on courses, dry roads, parking lots, wet roads, snow.

    [​IMG]
    Honda Civic SI in back...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Talon ESI AWD

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Now before you continue to "prove me wrong", just remember, I have actually experience, not that of google.com... I live for motor sports. Also all the photos are provided by my brother, or have been taken by myself.

    The WRX and Evo are Auto X pictures, the Evo driver is Brad, the WRX driver is Keith, both close friend of my family.

    Also I AM NOT emplying that it is imposible to drift with a FF rather, I am saying, it is highly unlikely to find a drifting FF, and one that is doing good at it for that fact. Also sorry if I went way off topic, or abused the rules, not my intentions at all.
     
  3. luftrofl

    luftrofl

    Messages:
    669
    Your entire post is off the topic that you and I were discussing previously, Cheezman.

    We were not talking about how good FF is at drifting and we were not talking about people taking them(FF drifters) seriously.

    You have also contradicted your previous point:
    -"A front wheel drive car CAN NOT drift." - Jan 08 2006, 11:00 AM

    With this one:
    -"Also I AM NOT emplying that it is imposible to drift with a FF..." Yesterday, 7:44 PM - Last edited by -Cheezman- : Yesterday at 7:54 PM.
     
  4. -Cheezman-

    -Cheezman-

    Messages:
    622
    Location:
    United States
    Let me re-word my frist post then. Relying souly on your E-break is not drifting, drifting is about technique, not an E-break, sure E-brake Drift is a type of technique, but its only one, and in a true drifting show down, they (judges) look for the most angle, the most technique, and the cleanest line. Why don't you choke on that for a little while? Remember, GT4 is a video game, it does not have perfect real world physics, what you can do in the game, is nothing like what it would be out side of the game. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5587010895482106872

    Also, I wasn't off topic in my first post because I gave a tip on how to tune the car. Softer springs in the front, harder in the rear, reason being, is if you have hard springs in the rear, the car will bounce around more, making it easier to brake traction, softer in the front to produce oversteer, when ever you have softer suspension ride in the front and harder in the rear, your car will tend to oversteer more, if harder in front and softer in the rear, it will understeer more, and FF's understeer enough as is, with out ASM... so you need to really tune.

    You may also want to tune your ASM more for oversteer, maybe 20 understeer, 5 oversteer, and have TCS at like 3, because FF's also will just sit there is spin tires all day if you don't, given that you are driving at full throttle, if you manage your throttle it will be unneeded.

    :idea: luftrofl, may I suggest you go drifting in real life, or go to a drifting show, maybe learn something? They have shows every where now. Just a suggestion.
     
  5. luftrofl

    luftrofl

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    669
    Cheezman you really have a tough time staying on topic don't you?
    We were talking about your statement: "A front wheel drive car CAN NOT drift."
    We were not talking about how good FF drifters are or the likelyhood of a FF drivetrain car winning a drifting competition.

    I feel no need to discuss this topic any further as you have already "agreed" with my point, which is: "FF can indeed drift" with this statement: "Also I AM NOT emplying that it is imposible to drift with a FF..."

    Stop twisting statements into different ones that you want to argue against.
     
  6. -Cheezman-

    -Cheezman-

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    Location:
    United States
    You're just over compensating for the fact that I disproved you. So I worded wrong, my point how ever, is still valid. I'm willing to drop this if you are, because the truth is, we are going on about something that can be argued until the end of time. :sly:
     
  7. luftrofl

    luftrofl

    Messages:
    669
    I hate repeating myself, but you NEED to get it into your head:

    The two following sentences(#1 and #2) were both typed by you, they are both your thoughts, yet they contradict eachother.

    1) "A front wheel drive car CAN NOT drift. it may slide, but you can't call it a drift."

    2) "Also I AM NOT emplying that it is imposible to drift with a FF rather, I am saying, it is highly unlikely to find a drifting FF, and one that is doing good..."

    I don't understand why you've claimed victory. Your only point(you had many) that "is still valid" is that FF drifters will probably not beat a RWD car in a competition. But that's not what we were talking about were we?

    Again, I know I said this before(twice actually), but you need to understand this small bit of information.

    On a side note, by playing the "I didn't mean what I said" card, you have lost my respect.
     
  8. nos2

    nos2

    Messages:
    355
    Remember, this is a discussion about a game, not real life. I have a Eagle Talon TSi AWD in real life, it drifts worse than the FF Eclipse in the game, but that doesn't mean you can't drift FF car in GT4.
     
  9. Roen

    Roen

    Messages:
    2
    Not to back you up Chezman, because I think the way you handled this situation made you look like 1. an ass, and 2. an immature kid who can't handle losing, even thought you're probably much older than me, If you really want to be technical when arguing drifting, all cars can achieve a drift. However, FF's cannot sustain a drift because of how a drift is defined.

    From http://www.sentra.net/tech/garage/suspension.php, Mike Kojima's Handling Guide

    Neutral: This is the fast way around a turn where all four wheels slide evenly. Since the total friction circle traction of each tire is being used, all the available grip that the tires have and the car possesses is being put to the ground. Racers call this "drifting". This not to be mistaken for the idiotic Japanese Option Magazine video/Stupid Street Magazine stuff that makes a mockery of proper driving technique. Neutral is the fast way around a corner most of the time. Neutral is also the hardest handling mode to achieve for the suspension tuner.

    Drift is supposed to be the fastest way around a corner, not the mockery of a "sport" that it is today. We all know that "drifting" or rather, sliding an FF is definitely not the fastest way around a corner on road. Dirt, ice, snow, arguments can be made, but definitely not on road.

    This comes from a Sentra guide, which is obviously an FF car. To summarize, he defines drift as where all the wheels slide evenly. As an FF induces drift, he induces push with the e-brake, and then induces plow to straighten the car out. He may achieve drift momentarily, but what self-respecting driver wants to claim that he can drift for a split-second at a time? The other point that this makes is that only drivers of the highest skill can properly induce and sustain a drift. A proper drift, from entry to exit, is one where the exact amount of steering is inputed, along with weight shifting, to induce drift, and then the exact amount of pedal control is applied to control the drift without countersteer. All of us FR hobbyists, who claim we can "drift", really don't. We merely repeatedly cross the line between push and plow and achieve drift momentarily multiple times. The difference between us and the FF crowd is that FF drivers only cross the line once.

    The main argument between the drifting camps, is can an FF drift? The answer is yes, but not significantly. The main point here, as I am a supporter of the pure drifting camp (FR, MR, RR and AWD), is that FF's cannot sustain a drift at speed along multiple corners. If you're not able to sustain a drift, then you can claim you can drift as much as you want, but it really doesn't mean anything.

    That being said, FF sliding still makes for some pretty good pictures and I hope to see more of them up on this forum.
     
  10. FaLLeNAn9eL

    FaLLeNAn9eL

    Messages:
    1,580
    Amen to that!!! :lol: im also having the same problem with AWD but ive been noticing the drifts getting longer as a throw the car into the corners harder. soft left, then swing it hard to the right then counter steer while tapping the gas (which seems to extends the drift but i dont know how to get it to work correctly for me) yes i am a newb, u may now laugh at me and decduct 2 cool points:dunce:
     
  11. -Cheezman-

    -Cheezman-

    Messages:
    622
    Location:
    United States
    I didn't claim victory at all bro. So don't even try that, I said that you know my point is valid... And yes, I was wrong saying they can't drift. But I am still correct that they aren't the greatest at the sport. And drifting an FF wont get you around the track any faster like it is suppose too.

    You must have over looked this line here:
    "we are going on about something that can be argued until the end of time."

    I said I would let it go, but you are such a know-it-all, you had to continued, and you say you lost respect for me? Hate to burst your bubble, but who cares... it's an Internet forum.

    @Roen, You say I acted like an ass, well yes, I did, but you said you are not backing me up, when in fact, you actually are. I'm not the immature kid here, I said I would drop it if luftrofl did, but he showed that he needed to be all e-cool and e-tough.

    I will say this, this debate is over, it no longer involves me. My point has been made, I'm sorry that you can't see where it's coming from, but if you really want a debate, I suggest you start in real motor sports.

    Have a nice day.
     
  12. luftrofl

    luftrofl

    Messages:
    669
    We could argue this until the end of time? It might take that long for you to understand what this discussion is/was about.

    Get this into your head: I(or anybody else for that matter) was NOT talking about how WELL FF can drift. I was arguing that they CAN drift.

    Remember to READ that bold, italicized, and underlined sentence above this one. It states what I have been trying to get across to you for quite some time, but somehow you seem to be missing.

    I never said ANYTHING against your newly claimed point(FF isn't good at drifting).

    You realized you said something stupid. Instead of taking it back or saying "I was wrong" or something along those lines, you decided to change your argument without telling anybody.

    Do you read my posts? Or do you assume that whatever I type MUST be insulting you and whatever point you want to argue at that time?

    You're arguing against imaginary people Cheezman, nobody said that FF was the best drivetrain for drifting, and probably nobody will. Did you imagine that somebody did?
    I doubt it, you clearly decided to stop arguing against "FF can drift" and for "FF isn't good at drifting," and I'm willing to bet you did it because you realized your point had nothing backing it up(even the "research" you told me to do disproved your own point).

    If you're not imagining people posting, then did I imagine you posting "A front wheel drive car CAN NOT drift." on Jan 08 2006, at 11:00 AM ??? Because that's what you(for a short while anyways) and I were discussing.

    Stop bringing up real motorsports. Do you know me in real life? No. For all you know I could be a professional racer.

    Anyways, do I need to have gone drifting to understand drifting? Do I need to have a "drift-ready" car to know how drifting works?(which I doubt you do seeing as how I'm actually older than you, though your posts hint that you think this is not the case).
    The answer is: No, I don't need experience to know how it works, I just won't be very good at it.

    It's difficult yes, but not too complex is it?
    -initiate.
    -countersteer.
    -do whatever you need to hold the drift.
    -straighten the front wheels out when you exit.

    I'm repeating this because I think it's important:
    Get this into your head: I(or anybody else for that matter) was NOT talking about how WELL FF can drift. I was arguing that they CAN drift.
     
  13. gts167

    gts167

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    3
    Front Wheel drifting is like going to Macca's for an apple..... possible, but totally pointless
     
  14. -Cheezman-

    -Cheezman-

    Messages:
    622
    Location:
    United States
    luftrofl, fine I was wrong, if that what makes you happy, I will admit to it. But excuse me for making a mistake, AND posting my opinion on a public forum.
     
  15. vinsion

    vinsion

    Messages:
    307
    Let's make this simple everyone. FF drifting is, for lack of a better and more respectful term, assdragging. There is no such thing as a real FF drift. FF's can be slid around corners and whatnot, but that's not the real-true-actual meaning of a drift. E-brakeless FF drifts are, well, powerslides.

    It's as simple as that. If you have any questions feel free to email me, PM probably won't work, because I'm rarely on these forums anymore.
    vinsionsan@gmail.com

    //Vin
     
  16. gt4az

    gt4az

    Messages:
    20
    f cars are ok for 90 deg corners but when coming 2 long corners,:guilty: they are poo, if you tried going into the driving aids and turning the tcs off and where it says asm (understeer) put that to 20 :dopey:

    that makes the car oversteer a lot more, o and btw if you buy a f.c lsd ,
    you shouyld move the initial torque more 2 the bak than the front


    and the the slip diff. more to the rear end ok m8:)
     
  17. siCk_sLiDing

    siCk_sLiDing

    Messages:
    13
    I beg to differ, these setups that im about to post are the best FF tune drift setups ive ever done. Try them out for yourself and see. Drifting liong sweep corners is at ease with these 2 cars :sly:

    Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GTS 03'
    338Hp / 412.29Nm (torque)

    Parts Bought: - Tuned through HKS

    Oil Change
    Racing Exhaust
    Racing Brakes & Controller
    Port n Polish
    Engine Balance
    Racing Chip
    NOS - (Optional)
    NA Tune 3
    Custom transmission
    Triple Plate Clutch
    Racing Flywheel
    2-way LSD
    Racing Suspension
    N3's,N1's Tyres
    Weight Reduction
    1,2 & 3

    Settings:

    Tyres:
    N3's Front / N1's Rear

    Brake Balance:
    Front 8 / Rear 16

    Suspension:
    Spring Rate: Front 6.5 / Rear 5.5
    Ride Height: Front 115 / Rear 115
    Damper (Bound) 5 / 5
    Damper (Rebound) 4 / 4
    Camber: Front 2.5 / Rear 1.2
    Toe: Front -1 / Rear 0
    Stabilizers: Front 3 / Rear 2
    Transmission: Auto Setting 7

    Driving Aids: NONE!

    Weight Balance:
    Ballast Weight: 105
    Front / Rear Balance: 35

    I tuned this car on these circuits

    - Trial Mountain
    - Deep Forest

    _________________________________________

    Mitsubishi Eclipse GT 06'
    445Hp / 683.35Nm (torque)

    Parts Bought: Tuned through RalliArt

    Oil Change
    Racing Exhaust
    Racing Brakes & Controller
    Port n Polish
    Engine Balance
    Racing Chip
    SuperCharger
    Racing Suspension
    Custom Transmission
    Triple Plate Clutch
    Racing Flywheel
    2-way LSD
    N3's, N1's Tyres
    Weight Reduction
    1,2 & 3

    Settings:

    Tyres:
    Front N3's / Rear N1's

    Brake Balance:
    Front 7 / Rear 14

    Suspension:
    Spring Rate: Front 6.8 / 5.5
    Ride Height: Front 117 / Rear 177
    Damper (Bound) 5 / 5
    Damper (Rebound) 4 / 4
    Camber: Front 2.4 / Rear 1.1
    Toe: Front -1 / Rear 0
    Stabilizers: Front 3 / Rear 1
    Transmission: Do the (tranny trick) auto set to 1 and final back to 3.900

    Driving Aids: NONE!

    Weight Balance:
    Ballast Weight: 103
    Front / Rear Weight: 33



    I tuned this car on these circuits

    - Trial Mountain
    - High Speed Ring

    Enjoy these setting they are trick good luck :dopey:

    Peace man.
     
  18. sicbeing

    sicbeing

    Messages:
    1,104
    When i FF drift, I...

    Speed Down the Straight away, here we go!
    brake to trasnfer weight forward, woah dude!
    feint to create as much oversteer as possible, yea?
    Emergency!...brake!
    Back end slides out of control!..but wait...
    No countersteer? Hmm...
    At the end of the curve, burn out! Why?
    Understeer! The four wheel drift! (or my version of whatever)
    Car automatically straightens out, whew.
    Continue as if I knew what I was doing.
     
  19. Janro

    Janro

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    6
    It depends on the style of how you drift, I think. Well I find it one heck of a challenge to drift. But since I'm 'biased' to the '95 Eclipse I do whatever I can with it. I just go in at a faster pace through the corner slide sideways and hope that I don't get the chance to straighten too early. :D
     
  20. DodgeitorRamit

    DodgeitorRamit

    Messages:
    12
    I've found the '88 accord, when tuned to the max on default settings(will elaborate at bottom of post) will drift nicely. How I do it: "Brake and swerve, floor it+nitro, tap e-brake if needed to maintain and hope I dun catch the grass." Ittl do it on R5s. I suck at drifting, and for me to pull off FnF style drifts, it's all car. I've done so many a time. Ittl do it alot at nurburgring due to the bumps which upset everything I've ever run there, but it doesnt like catching a sandtrap.

    Setup and driving points: Turn oversteer ASM off, leave understeer and TCS alone. leave factory flywheel. Up the auto in the trans by one tick. Max out the brake controller both ends. Max the NOS. Brake and swerve, the e-brake is only to sustain the drift. You should be floored and holding nitrous once it's slid to the desired angle, steering input is up to you. Keep revs high, 5,000-6,000. Get a 1.5way LSD. See how it works for you and have fun
     
  21. manhezze

    manhezze

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    44
    lmao well if i did try to drift with a FF this is what i'd probably try... any and all setups that you all mentioned... but 1st i'd try getting the drift then just try to keep it cuz any gas is gonna kill it, & E-brake just slows ya down. so my question is:

    how brave are ya to go into a corner 40mph to fast 8D lmao
     
  22. articzap

    articzap

    Messages:
    1,155
  23. manhezze

    manhezze

    Messages:
    44
    pretty dame good job articzap... never tried a FF drifter. but looks like you got it down 8D
     
  24. art555(Ukraine)

    art555(Ukraine)

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    98
    Maybe its a bit late reply but here is my FF vid

     
  25. articzap

    articzap

    Messages:
    1,155
    This is posted in drift videos, but I was drifting automatic, dfp, stock, with only stagered tires.
     
  26. skateboardgrind

    skateboardgrind

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    5
    is the '98 ford taurus SHO a decent ff drifter? it has a few more horses than the '95 eclipse and more mass which should mean more momentum, so how good of a ff drifter is it?

    i don't have the game yet so sorry if this is a question with an obvious answer.
     

    Attached Files:

  27. TunerFocus

    TunerFocus

    Messages:
    222
    hey...very good point.:D
     
  28. 300zxfairman

    300zxfairman

    Messages:
    569
    Location:
    Germany
    FF cars suck either way.Drifting and raceing them.U can do more **** in reallife then u can in gt4 i took corners going about 120 in a buddy of mines 400hp eclipse .it feels like in gt4 they lack at handleing then they really should
     
  29. GT4_drifter7

    GT4_drifter7

    Messages:
    44
    i can drift a trial celica(with is a FF) very well.and its quite easy.
     
  30. takahashi-bros

    takahashi-bros

    Messages:
    2
    yes ff cars can drift, i know everything about drifting

    FF Drift- or front wheel drive drift. The E-brake as well as steering and braking techniques must be used to balance the car through a corner. Note that the E-brake is the main technique used to balance the drift.

    Power Over- this performed when entering a corner and using full throttle to produce heavy oversteer (tail slide) through the turn. Note that you need horsepower to make this happen.