FIA considering closed cockpit F1 in the future?

[LumpiestFish]

Why is it even a debate?

Justin Wilson, Dan Wheldon and others would still be alive now if they had a closed cockpit.

I'd argue that Wheldon would be alive to be honest. His accident was just far too bad that even a closed cockpit would have saved him.

 

[sk8er913]

Every time there is an injury like this, everybody gets carried away with the idea of closed cockpits and doesn't consider the downside of the concept. What do you do if a canopy gets jammed shut when a driver needs urgent attention?.

LMP1 doesn't seem to have a problem with their canopies. They never seem to "get jammed" after a crash. Why not put some LMP advancements into the open wheel world?

 

[GTPorsche]

LMP1 doesn't seem to have a problem with their canopies. They never seem to "get jammed" after a crash. Why not put some LMP advancements into the open wheel world?

LMP1 doesn't have canopies. Those are roofs.

 

[sk8er913]

LMP1 doesn't have canopies. Those are roofs.

You could make a roof out of the same material as the canopy. That way you could still see through it.

 

[GTPorsche]

You could make a roof out of the same material as the canopy. That way you could still see through it.

So, you want them to make a canopy in the form of a roof, out of ballistic resistant plastic?

That's just a canopy....

 

[sk8er913]

So, you want them to make a canopy in the form of a roof, out of ballistic resistant plastic?

That's just a canopy....

No, it would be based off of an LMP cockpit with doors and all but with transparent materials. Added onto the indy or F1 car. What could be wrong with that? Its clearly better than nothing at all and I don't see any way that it could make a situation worse.

 

[GTPorsche]

There's no way that would work.

 

[sk8er913]

There's no way that would work.

Why wouldn't it? Make something like the closed cockpit delta wing, but extend the windshield back to that pointy thing behind the driver.

 

[mustafur]

I think Most people know this was going to be inevitable eventually, the only way that seems to work for such a compact design that is an open wheeler would be some kind of semi covering, as a closed Canopy would create too much issues with escaping the car.

Yes it was a freak incident but it is very much on the common side of a freak incident, not to mention there have been plenty of Non Fatal injuries that have came from it as well.

It's not just an IndyCar problem which some may see it, However it gets highlighted the most in the series that has these hits at significantly higher speeds then what would happen on a Road Course, increasing the likelihood of Fatality.

If we had a track design that resulted in this many related Fatalities/Injuries over the years I Doubt anyone would want to support the use of it.

 

[GTPorsche]

An LMP cockpit is just too big for and open wheel car.

 

[sk8er913]

I think Most people know this was going to be inevitable eventually, the only way that seems to work for such a compact design that is an open wheeler would be some kind of semi covering, as a closed Canopy would create too much issues with escaping the car.

Yes it was a freak incident but it is very much on the common side of a freak incident, not to mention there have been plenty of Non Fatal injuries that have came from it as well.

It's not just an IndyCar problem which some may see it, However it gets highlighted the most in the series that has these hits at significantly higher speeds then what would happen on a Road Course, increasing the likelihood of Fatality.

If we had a track design that resulted in this many related Fatalities/Injuries over the years I Doubt anyone would want to support the use of it.

Speaking of track design, yeah the catch fences can cause a lot of problems. But the pros definitely outweigh the cons. We don't want another le mans 55, ever.

An LMP cockpit is just too big for and open wheel car.

Even the deltawings? That car has a lot of open wheeler DNA...

 

[Korza]

No, it would be based off of an LMP cockpit with doors and all but with transparent materials. Added onto the indy or F1 car. What could be wrong with that? Its clearly better than nothing at all and I don't see any way that it could make a situation worse.

Because then it would be an LMP car.

 

[sk8er913]

Because then it would be an LMP car.

No it wouldn't, it would still be an open wheel car and a single seater. LMPs are 2 seaters and have fenders. I do hold the opinion that LMP1 is like Formula 1 except with fenders, though.

 

[mustafur]

Open Wheeler design would have to Mirror a Sports car to get a cockpit, its far too compact.

Also another idea inspired by the Mercedes SLS, having a Closed Canopy with explosive hinges that deploy the openings in event of crisis.

 

[GTPorsche]

Speaking of track design, yeah the catch fences can cause a lot of problems. But the pros definitely outweigh the cons. We don't want another le mans 55, ever.



Even the deltawings? That car has a lot of open wheeler DNA...

It was an open wheel concept, but it was changed a lot to make it into the LMP version.

 

[sk8er913]

Open Wheeler design would have to Mirror a Sports car to get a cockpit, its far too compact.

Also another idea inspired by the Mercedes SLS, having a Closed Canopy with explosive hinges that deploy the openings in event of crisis.

Sounds like a good idea, except for the "Explosive" part.

It was an open wheel concept, but it was changed a lot to make it into the LMP version.

Why not take away some of the LMP stuff and make it back into an open wheeler? Keeping a cockpit similar to its current form, except with more transparent materials/more visibility.

 

[mustafur]

The Explosive used is similar to a Bunger, anything more would create more issues then it would solve.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

LMP1 doesn't seem to have a problem with their canopies. They never seem to "get jammed" after a crash. Why not put some LMP advancements into the open wheel world?

Because it would mean fundamentally changing the structure of the car.

 

[NotThePrez]

And how many others would be dead?

Every time there is an injury like this, everybody gets carried away with the idea of closed cockpits and doesn't consider the downside of the concept. What do you do if a canopy gets jammed shut when a driver needs urgent attention? What about the potential for the curvature of the canopy glass to distort a driver's perception of his or her surroundings when racing wheel to wheel? And what about accidents like Bianchi's where a canopy would have afforded no protection.

There's also a logistical element as well. Incorporating an closed-cockpit design would most likely require a complete re-design of the race car in order for it to maintain performance. In an age where motorsport is trying to cut down on costs, this would already kill the idea, especially in F1 where the small teams already have plenty of money issues.

 

[sk8er913]

Because it would mean fundamentally changing the structure of the car.

Change the structure of the roof and doors so that it doesn't change the structure of the car much. I'm only suggesting to use proven LMP cockpits as a starting point. Of how they should design a closed cockpit open wheel car. Starting with an LMP cockpit is probably better than starting with a fighter jets cockpit.

There's also a logistical element as well. Incorporating an closed-cockpit design would most likely require a complete re-design of the race car in order for it to maintain performance. In an age where motorsport is trying to cut down on costs, this would already kill the idea, especially in F1 where the small teams already have plenty of money issues.

I read that Indycar is planning for a new car in 2018, maybe they can incorporate it into that car.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Change the structure of the roof and doors so that it doesn't change the structure of the car much. I'm only suggesting to use proven LMP cockpits as a starting point. Of how they should design a closed cockpit open wheel car. Starting with an LMP cockpit is probably better than starting with a fighter jets cockpit.

Again, that would require a fundamental redesign of the car.

 

[NotThePrez]

Change the structure of the roof and doors so that it doesn't change the structure of the car much. I'm only suggesting to use proven LMP cockpits as a starting point. Of how they should design a closed cockpit open wheel car. Starting with an LMP cockpit is probably better than starting with a fighter jets cockpit.

Which would still require the car's construction to be changed for it to be effective.

Tree'd

 

[sk8er913]

Again, that would require a fundamental redesign of the car.

Which would still require the car's construction to be changed for it to be effective.

Tree'd

I have already posted that they are designing a new car for the 2018 season, maybe they can incorporate it into that design.

 

[NotThePrez]

I have already posted that they are designing a new car for the 2018 season, maybe they can incorporate it into that design.

Perhaps. Most likely only if it doesn't drive up the costs while still being effective.

 

[sk8er913]

Perhaps. Most likely only if it doesn't drive up the costs while still being effective.

What is the cost of a F1/indy car? I don't actually know... I do know that Audi spend 250 million a season on WEC though. But they are Audi... They are there to win.

 

[Earth]

The only sure-fire way is to ban motorsport entirely.

That may not be a bad idea

 

[sk8er913]

That may not be a bad idea

I hope you're joking. That's a terrible idea.

 

[NotThePrez]

What is the cost of a F1/indy car? I don't actually know... I do know that Audi spend 250 million a season on WEC though. But they are Audi... They are there to win.

According to this article, Mercedes' budget was around 470 million Euros for this year, and they're the 2nd biggest spender. While it doesn't say where all that money goes (Though the driver's salaries have been published/speculated), typically the majority of that cash is spent on just the Research & Development aspect of the car. I remember hearing that just getting an F1 car up & running is roughly $10 million bucks (which is probably hogwash ), but when you factor in the development of the aero, the development of the engine & drivetrain, the bespoke parts for the brakes, suspension, body, ect., as well as having the replacements for these bespoke parts in case they get damaged or destroyed, It's probably very likely that Mercedes, Red Bull & Ferrari are spending more on their cars than Audi spend on the R18.*

*Again, pure speculation. If someone has access to hard numbers, I'd love to see them.

Also, consider that the top Indycar teams spend less than 5% of the top F1 teams.

Christ, I can't spell tonight, lul.

 

[sk8er913]

According to this article, Mercedes' budget was around 470 Euros for this year, and they're the 2nd biggest spender. While it doesn't say where all that money goes (Though the driver's salaries have been published/speculated), typically the majority of that cash is spent on just the Resarch & Development aspect of the car. I remember hearing that just getting an F1 car up & running is roughly $10 million bucks (which is probably hogwash ), bust when you factor in the development of the aero, the development of the engine & drivetrain, the bespoke parts for the brakes, suspension, body, ect., as well as having the replacements for these bespoke parts in case they get damaged or destroyed, It's probably very likely that Mercedes, Red Bull & Ferrari are spending more on their cars than Audi spend on the R18.*

*Again, pure speculation. If someone has access to hard numbers, I'd love to see them.

Also, consider that the top Indycar teams spend less than 5% of the top F1 teams.

Christ, I can't spell tonight, lul.

Nascar spends 25 million a car per year. But they have a race almost every weekend, and they get totaled many times in a season.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Why is it even a debate?

Justin Wilson, Dan Wheldon and others would still be alive now if they had a closed cockpit.

You and this again! Replacing one danger with another danger is not a solution.

Does the idea of a race car upside down and on fire not ring bells for you?