FITT American Classics Shootout - Winners announced! Congrats NEWDRIVER2 and Motor City Hami!

jtqmopar
I would say probably so. Also, we need to make sure the testers can all afford the car you tuned.

edit: conversation sent to all but @Motor City Hami because I'm assuming he might be able to scrape a couple pennies together, and I could only have 10 people in the conversation.
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So if I choose Ford GT40 Mark 1 '66 also and do it without an oil change, all testers will be required to purchase two of these cars because of the oil change issue.
 
I just left you out, because I thought you'd be more likely to be able to get the car than the others, based on the fact that you are a tuner and would likely have been grinding credits. That's also why I tagged you in that post so you'd know about the car. I'm tuning another car. MrGrado has apparently tuned the car and fit it in specs with max ballast and [allowable] power limiter.
 
Motor City Hami
So if I choose Ford GT40 Mark 1 '66 also and do it without an oil change, all testers will be required to purchase two of these cars because of the oil change issue.
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That most likely would be correct, and if that were the case that there were two entries for this car, I would be unsure if i could manage to test both cars.
 
MCHami said on page 2 of this thread that oil changes will be required. it takes less than 200 miles before the power begins to drop. It wont be possible to test 2 or more tunes with the same car that way. It's not fair to the testers to require them to buy more than one version of a car just because a tuner cant figure out another way to squeeze more time out of the tune. Requiring an oil change makes the field more even and less stressful on the testers. IMHO.
 
To be honest I'm rather disappointed by this whole situation.
We asked DB to ban the Z28, Trans AM and C3 convertible as being to fast for the rest of the comprtition. Had a discussion about why doing an Oil Change would be a good idea for all tunes.
Then someone shoehorns a car that starts out ineligible for the event into the specs.

I understand we are all competitive on some level and want to win, but the idea is to start with a fairly level playing field and show our skills as tuners, not how good we may be at circumventing regulations.

I've not tested the GT40 so have no idea if it has an edge on other cars, but at least on the surfice it appears to be a deliberate attempt to circumvent the spirit of the competition if not the exact letter of the rules.:(
 
Well, what do the testing volunteer's think?

Not to start anything, but on page 3 I asked if the OP was up to date and correct, and I got a "yes" it is. And the OP only says it's "highly suggested" to get an oil change.

MrGrado, what would you think of maybe doing another car instead? Again, not starting anything but I know a few people would like to know your opinion on that as well?

Hope my 2-cents doesn't get me in trouble, lol
 
Even if the car is allowed, has nobody read the post about it? It just barely makes regulations without an oil change. I really don't think it would be an allowable car though, because I've driven my 15th anniv one, and the one at Goodwood, and they handle way better than all the FR cars the rest of us are tuning
 
Re the GT40, I think it will still beat all the other cars in laptimes.

Reason why? I was testing a CRAP event with some friends yesterday - classic cars pre '69 and one guy was using the GT40 at 445PP and was still really fast, beating all the other cars that were being tested.

So at 500PP it will probably be a ringer. But if you wanna test it and rule it out go ahead, I just think it will be too fast though.
 
Re GT40 it can be argued that it is not a muscle car as it was not produced for the masses, it was designed as a pure race car, with the sole intent to beat Ferrari in the 24 of LeMans. The street version didn't come about till the 2000's placing it as modern super car not a classic muscle car, the but also the rule just states American pre 1980 car so it fits that.
 
@MrGrado - great find. I give you credit. You found a car that fits within the written rules without trickery. I looked at my 15th anniversary edition and thought that the car would not fit the specs without 200+ mile dirty oil. But now I realize that the anniversary cars carry a slightly higher PP level. I just purchased a new one and sure enough, brand new, no oil change it fits the specs. Again, nice find.

The Ford GT40 Mark 1 '66 is right there with my current lead selection and I have only set up the LSD so far and run three laps. It should be able to beat my current best car by a second after I tune it. If it is allowed, I may have to enter it. The car drives great!

The Laguna Seca track is 2.24 miles long. Most testers will do about ten laps or say 22.5 miles. Many testers will do more laps but does anyone drive more than 20 laps when testing? Well, I guess for those who test twice. So at 20 laps it will burn up 45 miles. So in theory, you should be able to test three tunes before hitting 150 miles. I haven't payed close enough attention, but it seems to me that cars were gaining some hp around 100 miles then losing around 150. Can anyone confirm.

Again to MrGrado, nice find.
 
Motor City Hami
@MrGrado - great find. I give you credit. You found a car that fits within the written rules without trickery. I looked at my 15th anniversary edition and thought that the car would not fit the specs without 200+ mile dirty oil. But now I realize that the anniversary cars carry a slightly higher PP level. I just purchased a new one and sure enough, brand new, no oil change it fits the specs. Again, nice find.

The Ford GT40 Mark 1 '66 is right there with my current lead selection and I have only set up the LSD so far and run three laps. It should be able to beat my current best car by a second after I tune it. If it is allowed, I may have to enter it. The car drives great!

The Laguna Seca track is 2.24 miles long. Most testers will do about ten laps or say 22.5 miles. Many testers will do more laps but does anyone drive more than 20 laps when testing? Well, I guess for those who test twice. So at 20 laps it will burn up 45 miles. So in theory, you should be able to test three tunes before hitting 150 miles. I haven't payed close enough attention, but it seems to me that cars were gaining some hp around 100 miles then losing around 150. Can anyone confirm.

Again to MrGrado, nice find.
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-IF THAT CAR MAY chevrolette corvette stingray convertible (C3) '69 CAN ALSO FOLLOW THE SAME CHARACTERISTICS, AND OTHER which were abolished:cheers:
 
I suppose the best question, is really how does it compare in lap times to the three cars that have been banned? Versus the cars that are left. Is it comparable to the banned cars or the allowed cars?
But than the question is how many tunes do we allow for it as there are a finite number of laps before the tester has to buy another one. As hammie stated it looks like about 60 laps than it out of regs.
I love the gt40 always have, had all of them in gt5, it's a great car, I personally consider it a classic racer not a muscle car but that it's my opinion.
Just my opinion but if the car is allowed, the number if tunes should be limited to save the testers money, we are not at the infinite money point in the game yet so 3 million credits is a hefty chuck of change. And with the limited tunes, and of the remaining tunes I'd suggest a lotto drawing of the tuners that want to tune it.
 
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AND if it is allowed, say 2 of them, and they both came in 1st and 2nd place by a decent margin, how many other tuners with other cars are going to feel like "wtf" ?
Honestly, I don't care, so it won't be me complaining, I'm more or less in this just to see how these work, and get a feel for it.
But let's be honest, if you had 100$ to your name, and saw a race between a Pontiac tempest and a mean looking GT40, is there even the slightest question which car your putting your money on?
I'm personally satisfied with just saying I tried. It doesn't look like everyone is as passive as I am though.

Tough decision for you guys, I don't envy you having to make it ><
 
Well I just bought a GT40 and set the limiter to to 95% and the ballast to 200kg@-10 and left everything else untouched. I did a warm up lap and then 1 more lap and I was 1 second quicker than any of the tunes posted already that I've tested. I think this falls into the same category as the other cars that got banned as far as lap times.
Personally, what I disliked about time trials in GT5 was the fact that rather than building a car up from under the PP limit, the go to cars were always detuned as much as possible (ie. Lamborghini Miura in the 450PP classic cars time trial at Autumn Ring).
 
You can tune out the engine limiter as the horsepower drops, so there's no need for testers to buy many cars.

As I have tested it, it's pretty close in lap time as the the Mach1 Mustang, just a little faster, that is end tune speeds, the GT40 comes with a more than decent set of suspension values when FC suspension is fitted.

The other thing is, my car meets entry requirements. It's hardly fair to exclude someones entry after they have tuned it and entered it. This car was/is a possible car choice for anyone else also.
 
Maybe a second class is called for...
Stick the Z28, C3 convertible, Trans AM and GT40 in their own class.

Let Tuners only enter one class, but allow Test Drivers the choice of only testing one class or both.

Would allow pretty much all the pre '80 American road cars to at least have some sort of representation, yet not have obvious ringers mucking up the results so people would feel a bit more comfortable tuning what they liked.

I know I'm still undecided on what car I'll enter because there are a few I really like but they are a touch off the pace so it's, do I go for something different and fun or do I just try to make the fastest car possible regardless of how many others may decide to use the same car.:drool:
 
Motor City Hami
I have five hours of testing into a Mach 1. In five laps with a GT40 with only a slapped on LSD tune I am faster than my Mach 1. If the GT40 stays in, I will have to enter it.
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It was because of a similar performance advantage that the other 3 cars got banned.

Hate to say it but think the Mach 1 has a slight edge on the remainder, but it's not nearly as big an advantage as the banned cars enjoy and a couple other cars can at least keep things interesting for it.
 
XDesperado67
It was because of a similar performance advantage that the other 3 cars got banned.

Hate to say it but think the Mach 1 has a slight edge on the remainder, but it's not nearly as big an advantage as the banned cars enjoy and a couple other cars can at least keep things interesting for it.
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I would put the Mach I in the same performance level as the three banned cars, actually.
 
Hello friends, to avoid this kind of things , the best thing to do before any shootout would be checking all the cars available before the event one by one . For example , if you take a medium car at 500pp as a reference, you can raise or low the PP limit of each other car tested one by one to make them very close in lap time.
This can be done with a basic stock tune with customs parts on it for the test.
It's a big job but every tuner have to do this to check every car anyway.
But, it's too late now, there is no problem with dominant cars, i think i have one too . Not very fair for the cuda , mercury..... It's OK for me no problems.
We can also do one thing, for example giving more points for the driving feeling and driver choice.
Just an idea. Have a good day everybody.
 
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XDesperado67
Maybe a second class is called for...
Stick the Z28, C3 convertible, Trans AM and GT40 in their own class.

Let Tuners only enter one class, but allow Test Drivers the choice of only testing one class or both.

Would allow pretty much all the pre '80 American road cars to at least have some sort of representation, yet not have obvious ringers mucking up the results so people would feel a bit more comfortable tuning what they liked.

I know I'm still undecided on what car I'll enter because there are a few I really like but they are a touch off the pace so it's, do I go for something different and fun or do I just try to make the fastest car possible regardless of how many others may decide to use the same car.:drool:
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2 classes would work, we've done it before, S2000's I think it was at Spa, maybe. We've also done 2 different PP level's in one competition. Either would mean no cars banned from tuning.
 
@biffa3 yeah I somehow missed the memo and ended up with my Altezza TC being the only non S2000 race/tuner car in that shootout division.:lol::lol:
Still it ended up being a very good shootout.👍👍
 
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praiano63
Hello friends, to avoid this kind of things , the best thing to do before any shootout would be checking all the cars available before the event one by one . For example , if you take a medium car at 500pp as a reference, you can raise or low the PP limit of each other car tested one by one to make them very close in lap time.
This can be done with a basic stock tune with customs parts on it for the test.
It's a big job but every tuner have to do this to check every car anyway.
But, it's too late now, there is no problem with dominant cars, i think i have one too . Not very fair for the cuda , mercury..... It's OK for me no problems.
We can also do one thing, for example giving more points for the driving feeling and driver choice.
Just an idea. Have a good day everybody.
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all muscle cars have to have at least 1,300 kg and power limit of 375 HP, so we had more balance between the testers., and an idea but could solve this question :confused::cheers:
 
Cars without an oil change are like the Energizer bunny.

Going
0acx.jpg

And going
dt8z.jpg

And going...
lxra.jpg

And going.


Oil change starts deteriorating at 186MI/300KM just like GT5.
Until I test it I'm assuming oil changes deteriorate down to "stock" power levels and stay there until stock oil deteriorates, a la GT5 as well.
 

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