FITT M Power Challenge - Mystery Solved - Congratulations to the Winners

Discussion in 'GT6 Tuning' started by shaunm80, May 28, 2015.

  1. steefpeef

    steefpeef

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    average it takes me 10 minutes to apply a tune, (bottom up...)

    the whole shebang, with looks...

    how much time do you need?
     
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  2. Bowtie-muscle

    Bowtie-muscle

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    Maybe it doesn't need any improvement:sly:.

    Have to wait a bit, still quite a few cars to get to. And I don't want to give yours away.:dopey:
     
  3. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    I usually try to offer tuning reasons for why I think the car wasn't performing as I think it should so hopefully my reviews will be of service. With the unnamed tuners it will be more difficult to tailor your personal review to be more technically based but if I notice anything on any of the cars that could be fixed/improved then I usually make a note of it. :tup:
     
  4. coryclifford

    coryclifford

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    Could build a couple other cars and drive em.
     
  5. Otaliema

    Otaliema

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    One of the best things you can do for improvement is to build other cars that ran faster then yours did. Note that in a multi car challenge tune up the same car so your testing apples to apples and not oranges. As you're building and refining a tune generator it shouldn't take you long to do this.
    Eg you tuned one of the GTR's you would want to test any GTR that was faster, then test the podium.

    Edit just relized I should used a different example car like one of the M4
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2015
  6. steefpeef

    steefpeef

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    you know, as we are testing family saloons here,

    we tend to have grandchildren and mother in laws in the car,
    so we want them to get sick in the same places on the track consistently...

    there are other cars that need to be driven differently,
    like you where pursued bu the cops,
    or you want to impress the pretty girl next to you...

    but as we grow old... consistency is something to hold on!

    ... just some thoughts...
     
  7. ALB123

    ALB123

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    This is my first time acting as a test driver for a FITT Challenge, so please forgive me if you aren't completely pleased with my time or my short comments. I'm not a super fast driver. I gave 100% effort and attention to each car, except one that I was still waiting for a tune to be posted. I will do that last car as soon as possible. If any tuner feels dissatisfied with my best lap time for their tune, please remember that we all have different driving styles and what may feel awesome for you might feel not so great for me.

    Having said that, I really tried to give a thoughtful Drivers Choice score. There might be some tunes that had quicker times but lower DC scores and vice-versa. If I was able to rip 2 really fast, but uncomfortable laps and had 8 slow, out of control, totally uncomfortable laps that tune will end up with a lower DC than a tune that wasn't quite as quick but felt great to drive and easy to duplicate incredibly consistent lap times, lap after lap. I think all the tuners did a great job. Certainly a lot better than I could ever hope to do and that's why I don't tune! :lol: Unfortunately, not every tune is going to be a perfect fit and I mean no disrespect to anyone's tuning efforts. Again, it could certainly be a driving style clash, not being able to get the best out of your car.

    On to the results (in order of Tuner #):

    Tuner #1 - M3 Chrome Line
    Lap Time: 2:09.206
    DC: 8.75
    Comments: I found the braking to be a little weak which made braking inconsistent for me. The Gearbox is fine. The suspension felt good. For some reason, when driving these Chrome Line M3's, I feel like my times will be better than they are.

    Tuner #2 - M4 Coupe
    Lap Time: 02:08.580
    DC: 9.25
    Comments: Great transmission for this track! Easy to read the limits of the car. Power delivery is incredible. Brakes are smooth and firm. Predictable - you always know what the car is always going to do and that makes consistent, quick laps easy to accomplish.

    Tuner #3 - M3 GTR
    Lap Time: 02:06.695
    DC: 9.50
    Comments: Excellent setup. A fast car that is just incredibly balanced. I really enjoyed the transmission for this track. I always felt like I was in the power band. I honestly couldn't find anything to seriously complain about. Occasionally I felt understeer, but I think it was because I was driving so damn fast. Probably my fault - not the car's.

    Tuner #4 – M3 '07
    Lap Time: 02:09.115
    DC: 8.00
    Comments: A fast car! But a little bit too dangerous for me. I felt like I was constantly on the edge and the slighest mistake would have me spinning off the track. There was lots of oversteer and flat out sliding on corner entry. I adjusted my braking points, to scrub speed sooner in more of a straight line and it helps keep the car planted, but hurts the lap time quite a bit.

    Tuner #5 - 135i Coupe
    Lap Time: 2:09.671
    DC: 8.50
    Comments: I was looking forward to this car and the Tuner did not disappoint. I believe the transmission could be improved, however, as I felt 3rd & 4th gear were too long. The braking could probably be a little more friendly, but once I got used to it, I was able to keep the back end planted firmly. My first few laps were wrought with oversteer. It really felt like if I ONLY concentrated on being smooth, rather than fast, my lap times would improve.

    Tuner #6 – M3 '07
    Lap Time: 2:09.248
    DC: 8.00
    Comments: The car felt a little uncontrolled to me at times. Perhaps the better drivers like that "driving on the edge of a knife" feel, but I don't. 3rd gear was too long, I believe. What it does have going for it is I can tell this would be a much faster car than my time indicates, if I were to spend a day or two with it.

    Tuner #7 - M3 CSL
    Lap Time: 2:08.165
    DC: 8.00
    Comments: This car was a little weird for me. The car felt/drove much heavier than it actually is. Also, the transmission just felt strange to me...gears too long perhaps. It's not slow by any means, but I was expecting it to be faster.

    Tuner #8 – M3 Chrome Line
    Lap Time: 2:09.866
    DC: 8.50
    Comments: The suspension felt really good, but the brakes could have used a little more bite. Another Chrome Line that feels faster than it was on the clock. Still, it's a fun car to drive because it's consistent. No surprises when I experienced a bit of oversteer. A very predictable drive, which I like.

    Tuner #9 – M4 Performance Edition
    Lap Time: WITHDREW
    DC: WITHDREW
    Comments: WITHDREW

    Tuner #10 – M4 Coupe
    Lap Time: 2:08.843
    DC: 8.75
    Comments: The only real flaw I found was the car would occasionally understeer at times that I would never have predicted. Overall grip was really good. This car is a real pleasure to drive. The handling is sharp and allows you to recover easily from tiny mistakes.

    Tuner #11 - M3 CSL
    Lap Time: 2:07.222
    DC: 9.00
    Comments: Almost flawless. It is very easy to drive this car fast. Balance is really good in this CSL. Brakes are great. The lack of weight allows you to just carry more speed into the turns.

    Tuner #12 – M4 Performance Edition
    Lap Time: 2:08.964
    DC: 8.25
    Comments: I like the way this car feels. I have a feeling most won't. It drives like a Replica Tune (that's what I drive 95% of the time). But, having said that, it's leaving a LOT of time out on the track. A bit too much understeer. Transmission is setup wrong for this track.

    Tuner #13 - M3 Chrome Line
    Lap Time: 2:08.878
    DC: 9.00
    Comments: Excellent setup. Very easy to drive hard into turns. Power gets down almost flawlessly. There is a hint of understeer at times, but easy enough to tell where the limit is.

    Tuner #14 - M3 CSL
    Lap Time: 2:06.705
    DC: 9.00
    Comments: Incredible tune. So easy to run consistent laps. Turn in is effortless. The transmission felt perfect - keeping me in the power band at all times. Suspension is stiff, but forgiving. I really like that. Excellent job!

    Tuner #15 – M4 Performance
    Lap Time: PENDING
    DC: PENDING
    Comments: PENDING

    Tuner #16 – M4 Coupe
    Lap Time: 2:08.920
    DC: 7.75
    Comments: I could not get comfortable with this car. I actually stopped my test session to double check brake settings. The entire car would slide like crazy when I was trying to trail brake. I did not like the transmission at all. There is speed in this car - but I couldn't control the car well enough to consistently find it.

    Tuner #17 - M3 GTR
    Lap Time: 02:09.519
    DC: 9.00
    Comments: I really enjoyed this car. I just felt the weight held me back from a low time. The transmission felt great. Car is well balanced in turns. It feels smooth and precise. The brakes weren't perfect, but the handling and power delivery made up for any braking mistake.

    Tuner #18 – M3 GTR
    Lap Time: 02:09.431
    DC: 7.50
    Comments: The car is quick enough, but I never felt comfortable and planted. There was a lot of bouncing around. I couldn't find a good rhythm with this transmission either. I felt stuck between gears several times. This car will oversteer too easily.
     
  8. shaunm80

    shaunm80

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    That is definitely interesting. Not sure id want to be responsible for cleaning up the mess in the back seats from children being sick and being chased by cops isn't the same when you can actually escape them. All these cars have enough power to escape just by putting your foot down. :)
     
  9. shaunm80

    shaunm80

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    Thanks for the review. Consistent times again! Looks like you enjoyed driving these. Excellent job.
     
  10. Bowtie-muscle

    Bowtie-muscle

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    For your first review, I would say that was really really good. You gave your impressions and your lap times were on par. Great Job and welcome to FITT. Thank you for putting in the time and effort to get these done, and for driving my tune. Cannot say which one it was, but it was the kind of comments I was expecting.
     
  11. ALB123

    ALB123

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    @shaunm80 & @Bowtie-muscle thank you both for having me as a part of this FITT Challenge. Boy, it was a lot of work... It took several hours to get through all of the cars. It was fun, but a little stressful as well. I really wanted to put in a great effort with each car to try and get the best lap times that I could, but also pay very close attention to what I was feeling from each car. I know you know what I mean because you guys do these month after month, but for my first time doing a FITT Challenge as a tester, it was quite an experience. :cheers:
     
  12. DaBomm4

    DaBomm4

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    @ALB123 thanks for the review, I agree with most and once I test my car compared to its brethren I might agree with the rest. Hope to see you on the track and maybe testing in the next FITT event also. ;)

    Also, if you want, you can throw out your guesses of whose tune was whose. :)
     
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  13. ALB123

    ALB123

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    I might as well assign random names to the Tuner #s as my "guesses". I have several cars tuned from Exeter GT Tuning (shaunm80's garage), one or two tunes from Bowtie's Garage, two from DolHaus and maybe one or two from MotorCityHami's Garage. When you guys try to guess who's tune is who's it is to see if you're getting familiar with a particular tuners style and patterns. I'm so unfamiliar with the Tuners...although I know who many are from seeing their work on GTP. I couldn't make educated guesses unfortunately. :(
     
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  14. Otaliema

    Otaliema

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    Great set of times you have there very consistent. You pointed out the only thing I couldn't fix so just worked with it.

    Result observations we have tw cars jumping out to a fast lead with one reeling them in after the first two turns.
     
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  15. Voodoovaj

    Voodoovaj

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    What I am really curious about is the lap times though. It's interesting to see the difference under the same conditions. As I mentioned, in testing my tune, I am running 1.5 to 2 seconds faster. That's a significant difference.

    I wonder where the difference is. I don't think it's a talent level differece. There must be something in the way the cars are being driven.

    Like, if I saw someone post a tune and a time, then I see my time is consistently 1.5 seconds faster, I would assume that something in the tune is significantly better. After all the various tune discussions since the GT6 release, the fact is that there is no one size fits all tune.

    I find it fascinating.
     
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  16. Bowtie-muscle

    Bowtie-muscle

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    And these challenges really show that most of the time.

    Are you on a wheel or ds3?
     
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  17. ALB123

    ALB123

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    I definitely think that level of talent plays a part in it, but wouldn't you expect your tune to be perfectly tailored to your driving style and shouldn't you also know all of the subtleties of that tune since you're the person who created it? Like @shaunm80 said, we also only have 10 laps (approximately) to spend on each car. I am 100% positive that if I spend a couple of hours with any tune in this challenge, I will be considerably* faster with that tune. Heck, I'd be willing to go as far as to say that if we didn't have to judge these tunes with a Driver's Choice score, I could have possibly posted some lower times. If I was just going all out, balls to the wall in each car - not caring if there is consistency in my driving of the car, not focusing on whether I enjoy the tune or not, but just 100% focused on dropping the best lap time as possible - I'm sure my times would have been lower. Unfortunately, I didn't want to spend 2 hours driving each car...but I gave the same amount of time to each setup. I made sure that my judging of the cars was fair, with respect to each other.

    EDIT: * - "considerably" was probably a bad word choice. I should have just said "faster", not "considerably faster".
     
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  18. fordracer

    fordracer

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    Nice job on your first time testing. Hope you will do so again. Welcome to FITT.
     
  19. Otaliema

    Otaliema

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    That being said skill has a large part of lap time if it didn't GTA would be a lot closer then it is between the top 200 and the rest of the world. All of my cars are faster then I put down times for. Take my 2J TT I manage 2-3 seconds faster then gold most of the time. In the hands of a world class driver it's top ten dang near every time.
     
  20. ugabugaz

    ugabugaz

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    @Voodoovaj I would disagree,

    I think it comes down to mostly talent and track knowledge, and less so the particular tune. A tune I would say, if the car isn't broken should worth at most 0.3-0.5 on a medium length track. For me the difference in laptime is 3+ seconds.

    By the way to testers, feel free to be as vocal as you like - the more criticism the better.
     
  21. fordracer

    fordracer

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    I think tihis whole dicussion on testers lap times.being fast or not is a.dead point. I will probably have some of the slowest lap times in the whole tester group. As long as my times are consistently 2,4 even 6 seconds slower, what will it matter? The present scoring system is an AVERAGE. The top cars will still be on top...the bottom cars will be rearanged a bit because I dont have the skill to compensate for the lesser tunes. As a tuner...in my OPINION, I want a group of testers from as.broad a spectrum of skill level as I can get. What better way to eval. my car?
     
  22. ALB123

    ALB123

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    I agree with everything you've said...100%! If I'm slower with Tuner #1's car by a significant margin, chances are I'm going to be slower with most every other tune by a similar margin. It won't be exactly the same with every tune, but that's why it gets averaged.

    Looking at shaunm80's testing results, I see that he and I are very close with some cars, he is faster than me with some and I am faster than he was with some. The D.C. is the thing that Tuners need to be worried about. It's entirely subjective. I'm positive that there are going to be some testers who look at my results and think "What? He gave that car a 9.0? But he only gave this one an 8.0?" It's tough for the tuners...but lap times are relative.
     
  23. Otaliema

    Otaliema

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    It is true the actual lap times are not important consistency is. If your four seconds slower in all but one car and that you're on pace then you're results will be called into question.
     
  24. steefpeef

    steefpeef

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    I agree with all of that and what you wrote earlier.

    one thing could be interesting, to take the first cars you tested again and look how they perform now, after > 150 laps of experience on the track...

    what setup did you use for the test?
     
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  25. steefpeef

    steefpeef

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    I started testing myself, off the record, same specs... just for practice, testing wise...

    i thought of using all the cars in a a-spec race on the same track and look how they perform with cars around...
    that is another approach, you can not depend on the ideal line, and the cars have to perform other maneuvers...
     
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  26. shaunm80

    shaunm80

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    We can always accommodate another official tester if you wanted to test these under FITT conditions :) No pressure, but seen as your putting a few of these tunes through there paces, why not see what you think to all of them?
     
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  27. steefpeef

    steefpeef

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    Thank you for the kind words!

    I am still a little shy and humble, and not jet able to put my findings in proper words, i will publish my results.
    Let me be a consumer of this challenge (and i am sure i am not the only one).
    It just adds another dimension to this.
     
  28. shaunm80

    shaunm80

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    Sure thing, no problem. :) I was kind of being cheeky but it just seemed a waste of data if you are going to put hours into this. On the other side of the coin, i am glad that you are enjoying these cars and testing them out. There are some great examples of tuning hidden in these cars.
     
  29. steefpeef

    steefpeef

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    just to be clear,

    all testing is done with abs1 all other aids off?
     
  30. shaunm80

    shaunm80

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    Yes. ABS 1 only. Grip set to real.