FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[Saidur_Ali]

Here is a Laguna Seca comparison done by someone who plays GT5 and also races for real.

Similar car, same driver.



People think the GT5 version is inaccurate due to how green it looks but you can see in that video the real version is as green in the same spots.

 

[Minty]

People think the GT5 version is inaccurate because the corkscrew is exaggerated.

You can see it in the video you poster, despite the fact the IRL video looks to be recorded with a baked potato. Watch the car in GT5, it drops a lot harder than the one in real life. If the dip in the corkscrew were as rough as it is in GT5 there would be a collection of front bumpers all over the track side.


That and the grass in real life isn't a perfectly smooth, even line. In GT5 it looks more like they lined the track side with some green plastic for whatever reason instead of just letting the grass grow. Although, it's hard to see the details because, again, the whole baked potato issue.

EDIT: Wait, checked the annotation link to the full video, it's pretty good quality, but all it served to do is make the "grass" in GT5's Laguna Seca look even worse.

 

[Chad Esposito]

I like both games in the console world. Both are ok games, but both have pretty annoying stuff when compared to proper sims like Live for Speed, Netkar Pro, etc...

e.g. I played Forza and liked better the brakes simulation (for console game level, that is). It just rendered GT5 annoying afterwards.

However, I cannot really care about how accurate the tracks are if the brakes on GT5 on one hand, and the super grippy magic on Forza on the other ruin the experience in both cases for me.

Both PD and T10 need to improve on physics before anything else, IMO.

I'll have to wait with high hopes on FM4's or GT6's physics in order to really feel that track accuracy is worth it this time around...

 

[James1436]

It gives a better experience but doesn't make it a better racing sim, but the liveries are a great feature. 👍

Technically, it does make it a better sim or simulator. A simulator represents real world qualities in to the virtual world. In the real world, people make liveries to compete and sponsor their team. In Forza 3, many people create liveries to represent their teams or honer brands.

 

[shadynader]

Technically, it does make it a better sim or simulator. A simulator represents real world qualities in to the virtual world. In the real world, people make liveries to compete and sponsor their team. In Forza 3, many people create liveries to represent their teams or honer brands.

But from the second you turn on FM3, imho, it looks like a cartoon with its lighting compared to GT5. So immersion is gone instantly if you get hung up with things like this. Replays are terrible too when compared but it doesn't stop me playing Forza. Not at all. Same with GT5 and all its flaws.

The bottom line is both games offer me something different enough to make me want to play them, regardless of there shortcomings. Once you look beyond the many flaws that both games have in different areas you realize this. Yeah maybe the Nordschleife in FM3 is way off the mark or the corkscrew in GT5 is too steep but i play them tracks for what they are in respective games because there is not much point in comparing them to real life when the handling model of both games are not representative of the real thing.

I just play them for what they are and enjoy the fact that, in certain areas, if one game doesn't quite do it for me, theres a good chance the other one will.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

People think the GT5 version is inaccurate because the corkscrew is exaggerated.

You can see it in the video you poster, despite the fact the IRL video looks to be recorded with a baked potato. Watch the car in GT5, it drops a lot harder than the one in real life. If the dip in the corkscrew were as rough as it is in GT5 there would be a collection of front bumpers all over the track side.


That and the grass in real life isn't a perfectly smooth, even line. In GT5 it looks more like they lined the track side with some green plastic for whatever reason instead of just letting the grass grow. Although, it's hard to see the details because, again, the whole baked potato issue.

EDIT: Wait, checked the annotation link to the full video, it's pretty good quality, but all it served to do is make the "grass" in GT5's Laguna Seca look even worse.

The corkscrew in GT5, if you pause the video above you can see the steepness is more or less identical to the real one. In the real life video you can see the driver going down pretty hard and that is the characteristic of the corkscrew.

The grass in the Nurburgring is also not as even line and smooth as it is in GT5. That is due to people going off, and other things but in a game world you can make the track how it would look if it was tidied up.

 

[alucard0712]

EDIT: Wait, checked the annotation link to the full video, it's pretty good quality, but all it served to do is make the "grass" in GT5's Laguna Seca look even worse.

Because it's ported from GT4...

 

[Vaxxtx]

Here is a Laguna Seca comparison done by someone who plays GT5 and also races for real.

Similar car, same driver.



People think the GT5 version is inaccurate due to how green it looks but you can see in that video the real version is as green in the same spots.

I do not see anything as far as green in the real video. I think you are mistaken. The track layout looks a little steeper in GT5, IMO. Its still good, but you can tell they made the corkscrew steeper to relate the turn to a game.

Also, its hard to judge without a cokpit view. If they both had the same viewpoint...

 

[McLaren]

The corkscrew in GT5, if you pause the video above you can see the steepness is more or less identical to the real one. In the real life video you can see the driver going down pretty hard and that is the characteristic of the corkscrew.

I'm not seeing it.

1. The video is choppy as Mint said.
2. The in-game camera is situated on the front bumper. The car camera is in the car behind the driver.

The only thing I see when I pause it is the in-game camera showing me corkscrew's steepness about a second before the car does.

 

[Minty]

The grass in the Nurburgring is also not as even line and smooth as it is in GT5. That is due to people going off, and other things but in a game world you can make the track how it would look if it was tidied up.

Look at the grass off track in the real life video. It's not torn up by cars, it just didn't grow magically in a perfectly even line with no imperfections to speak of; like it did in GT5.

And the grass on the 'ring has a smooth edge because it comes all the way up to the track's edge, which is smooth. I'm not saying they should make it look damaged and dirty, although that'd be nice, just make it look like it grew in naturally.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

One obvious thing that should be pointed out about that comparison video: when you introduce tuned cars, you have no idea how accurate they are. Sure, he "recreated his car to similar spec", but using a stock car, on a stock track, would be a better comparison.

Look at how easy it is to go well below the "Official Record" run for the GT-R, as just one example. GT is close, absolutely, and it's impressive. But using tuned cars can cause problems. Not to mention, judging by his cornering speeds, he's not pushing it as hard as he can n-game.

 

[VXR]

Even 'stock' cars have varying tolerances when new, so really you'll always be chasing the dragon with half-baked intentions.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Look at the grass off track in the real life video. It's not torn up by cars, it just didn't grow magically in a perfectly even line with no imperfections to speak of; like it did in GT5.

And the grass on the 'ring has a smooth edge because it comes all the way up to the track's edge, which is smooth. I'm not saying they should make it look damaged and dirty, although that'd be nice, just make it look like it grew in naturally.

It all depends on how much grass has grown on the real track. PD just perfected the grass. Like on YouTube if you see real life onboards, some have no grass, some have little grass and some have a lot of grass which looks close to how the track is in GT5 and that is probably the time when PD visited the track.

One obvious thing that should be pointed out about that comparison video: when you introduce tuned cars, you have no idea how accurate they are. Sure, he "recreated his car to similar spec", but using a stock car, on a stock track, would be a better comparison.

Look at how easy it is to go well below the "Official Record" run for the GT-R, as just one example. GT is close, absolutely, and it's impressive. But using tuned cars can cause problems. Not to mention, judging by his cornering speeds, he's not pushing it as hard as he can n-game.

I agree that tuned cars is not the best way, stock for stock is better.

You should be able to go a bit quicker in the game as far as the GT-R official record is concerned due to no fear but mainly due to no restart to perfect every corner and such for unlimited amount of times. However I'm convinced that if say the driver who drove the record in real life drove in a similar way in GT5, his lap time will be very close to what he did in real. You can drive the car more ragged than most people do in the real word at the track because you can restart if you mess things up and there is no tyre wear in time trial mode as well as no brakes getting cooked. We are talking like 16 seconds difference between one of the fastest GT5 drivers against real world time though which is not a lot on a track so long, GT5 simulating perfect conditions and real world being real. Future GT versions should make the simulation more detailed, the base physics is already quite good.

Anyway about corkscrew, it is very steep in real life as shown in the video linked below. I don't have photo comparisons between real and GT5 from same angle but looking at videos at pictures, it is quite accurate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-vPhbgGBlw&t=2m19s

 

[James1436]

But from the second you turn on FM3, imho, it looks like a cartoon with its lighting compared to GT5. So immersion is gone instantly if you get hung up with things like this. Replays are terrible too when compared but it doesn't stop me playing Forza. Not at all. Same with GT5 and all its flaws.

The bottom line is both games offer me something different enough to make me want to play them, regardless of there shortcomings. Once you look beyond the many flaws that both games have in different areas you realize this. Yeah maybe the Nordschleife in FM3 is way off the mark or the corkscrew in GT5 is too steep but i play them tracks for what they are in respective games because there is not much point in comparing them to real life when the handling model of both games are not representative of the real thing.

I just play them for what they are and enjoy the fact that, in certain areas, if one game doesn't quite do it for me, theres a good chance the other one will.

Cartoon?

ok..

You know, all I stated was that a livery editor improves the "simulation" aspect of the game....

 

[Vaxxtx]

Eh...I have seen that video a few times. Just remember the camera angle and lens on the shots of him walking on it, are obviously adjusted for effect.

Anywho, the updated Laguna, and Road America have me a happy camper so far.

 

[Jamezinho]

I hope we get some more car reveals tomorrow and they come thick and fast. It's been a bit barren of late.

Some news on a demo would be great, or reveals of cars new to the game. I've got a feeling we'll get some big news this week.

Edit - sorry, wrong thread!

 

[Minty]

It all depends on how much grass has grown on the real track. PD just perfected the grass. Like on YouTube if you see real life onboards, some have no grass, some have little grass and some have a lot of grass which looks close to how the track is in GT5 and that is probably the time when PD visited the track.

Except I wasn't talking about the quantity.

I don't care how much there is, grass doesn't grow in a perfectly smooth line on it's own.

But from the second you turn on FM3, imho, it looks like a cartoon with its lighting

EDIT: The image was a bit large, so I chose something a little smaller.
EDIT2: On second though. Here's the full size anyway.

You must watch some damn good cartoons. I mean, granted, it's not as good as GT5s lighting, but "cartoon"? Really?
I think you might be exaggerating. Just a bit.

 

[KreepaEvox]

Lol, always the "cartoony" argument.... Well, I guess "cartooniness" didn't stop Forza being a better rounded experienced than GT5. Let's see how things look after October when lighting sort of gets a little even between the two.... then maybe the argument will change to cartoony physics... lol

But then again " It's not fair to compare a year old game to a new one", when Forza got critized to bits when GT came out.... and still was a better "game"

Hey MintBerry that's not fair.... both cars are too new to be in GT5... Lol

We are not gonna even bring up the car lists into play here... I think that any normal human being would prefer the 599xx to the Kubelwagen... I know it's subjective, but come on now

 

[Bogie 19th]

That's ok. It seems like GT5 is looking "cartoony" compared to FM4 . See what I did there?

 

[shadynader]

Post as many photo mode pics as you like. Doesn't change my opinion what so ever of FM3. I think it looks cartoon like and it comes down to the lighting and contrast. Once in photo mode however, you can improve the realism and that's great. It shows the potential of the engine and with a few tweaks to the lighting (which i feel they are heading towards with FM4) the immersion level will go up from the second it loads up.

The discussion was about immersion in regards to the liveries that can be added in Forza. I was merely stating that a certain level of immersion is lost once I have loaded up. To be honest the graphics remind me of a mix between GTR evolution and a game on the Unreal engine (don't know where I got that combo from)

Now I am not arguing the livery editor is a bad thing, in fact my thoughts are quite the opposite James1436, It is a big bonus to immersion and longevity of the game. I admire the creations that some very talented people have come up with, even some my own (although they would probably be an argument against livery editors )

Bogie 19th and KreepaEvox

You guys need to show a little maturity and realise not everybody is here to blindly defend the game of preference. Just for the record, I too hope it looks better than GT5, I hope it blows it out the water in every way possible.

This might be a little hard for you two to understand but I have no personal feelings/attachment for either game franchise. I am just thankful there are two games I will enjoy playing.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Bogie 19th and KreepaEvox

You guys need to show a little maturity and realise not everybody is here to blindly defend the game of preference. Just for the record, I too hope it looks better than GT5, I hope it blows it out the water in every way possible.

This might be a little hard for you two to understand but I have no personal feelings/attachment for either game franchise. I am just thankful there are two games I will enjoy playing.

Nor do I. I was joking. Hence the smiley face.

 

[KreepaEvox]

Post as many photo mode pics as you like. Doesn't change my opinion what so ever of FM3. I think it looks cartoon like and it comes down to the lighting and contrast. Once in photo mode however, you can improve the realism and that's great. It shows the potential of the engine and with a few tweaks to the lighting (which i feel they are heading towards with FM4) the immersion level will go up from the second it loads up.

The discussion was about immersion in regards to the liveries that can be added in Forza. I was merely stating that a certain level of immersion is lost once I have loaded up. To be honest the graphics remind me of a mix between GTR evolution and a game on the Unreal engine (don't know where I got that combo from)

Now I am not arguing the livery editor is a bad thing, in fact my thoughts are quite the opposite James1436, It is a big bonus to immersion and longevity of the game. I admire the creations that some very talented people have come up with, even some my own (although they would probably be an argument against livery editors )

Bogie 19th and KreepaEvox

You guys need to show a little maturity and realise not everybody is here to blindly defend the game of preference. Just for the record, I too hope it looks better than GT5, I hope it blows it out the water in every way possible.

This might be a little hard for you two to understand but I have no personal feelings/attachment for either game franchise. I am just thankful there are two games I will enjoy playing.

No one is blindly defending anything here, being inmature or whatever man, You simply state something that is flame bait, in an inmature manner, and somehow, WE are the inmature ones for simply pointing out the obvious. I get the reason for critizism, is the manner in which you bring it up.

I simply stated my OPINION on the matter, just as you have yours. That yours and mine differ, thats the world for you.

 

[Luminis]

Post as many photo mode pics as you like. Doesn't change my opinion what so ever of FM3.

I find this interesting, as you're also talking about maturity. In that regard, it seems a bit hypocritical to say something along the lines of "this is may opinion, and no matter what you're showing to me, I won't change it".

That, however, is just my opinion.

 

[PzR Slim]

Post as many photo mode pics as you like. Doesn't change my opinion what so ever of FM3. I think it looks cartoon like and it comes down to the lighting and contrast. Once in photo mode however, you can improve the realism and that's great. It shows the potential of the engine and with a few tweaks to the lighting (which i feel they are heading towards with FM4) the immersion level will go up from the second it loads up.

The discussion was about immersion in regards to the liveries that can be added in Forza. I was merely stating that a certain level of immersion is lost once I have loaded up. To be honest the graphics remind me of a mix between GTR evolution and a game on the Unreal engine (don't know where I got that combo from)

Now I am not arguing the livery editor is a bad thing, in fact my thoughts are quite the opposite James1436, It is a big bonus to immersion and longevity of the game. I admire the creations that some very talented people have come up with, even some my own (although they would probably be an argument against livery editors )

Bogie 19th and KreepaEvox

You guys need to show a little maturity and realise not everybody is here to blindly defend the game of preference. Just for the record, I too hope it looks better than GT5, I hope it blows it out the water in every way possible.

This might be a little hard for you two to understand but I have no personal feelings/attachment for either game franchise. I am just thankful there are two games I will enjoy playing.

I think you will find the vast majority of people posting here feel that way. There are the odd few from both ends of the spectrum who buck that trend mind you. I can't agree with the word cartoony, I'd go with less realistic and, as you have pointed out, that's down to the lighting but cartoony I can't agree with.

No one is blindly defending anything here, being inmature or whatever man, You simply state something that is flame bait, in an inmature manner, and somehow, WE are the inmature ones for simply pointing out the obvious. I get the reason for critizism, is the manner in which you bring it up.

I simply stated my OPINION on the matter, just as you have yours. That yours and mine differ, thats the world for you.

You do realise it's incredibly immature to capitalise words to get your point across and only serves to annoy people.

 

[Luminis]

I can't agree with the word cartoony, I'd go with less realistic and, as you have pointed out, that's down to the lighting but cartoony I can't agree with.

Neither can I... Plastic like, maybe, or oversaturated. If it was 'cartoony', one shouldn't be able to remedy the issue with a few adjustments to the camera settings in photo mode.

However, when I'm thinking of 'cartoony', I'm thinking of cell-shaded games, like The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker.

 

[H3avyM3tal]

I'll tell you one thing - I hope the soundtrack will be awesome, but previous forza games had a lame one, imho. Luminis, lets hope for some Deadmou5.

 

[JJ72]

Turning all music off is the first thing I did in FM3 lol. Second is turning off the HUD.

 

[Luminis]

Deadmau5 would be epic, but probably too epic

Anyways, I didn't really mind FM3's soundtrack, but that was mainly due to it being turned off while racing, so I only heard it during the time I spent in the menues and tuning and such, which wasn't exactly a lot

 

[barryl85]

I'll tell you one thing - I hope the soundtrack will be awesome, but previous forza games had a lame one, imho. Luminis, lets hope for some Deadmou5.

If you compare (since this is a comparison thread) the bgm from GT5 & FM3 I know what i'd rather listen to.

GT5 piano music has always been a turn off, infact embarrassing, you have no idea how many times someone has shouted through to me while im playing, WTF are you listening to.

Deadmau5 would be epic, but probably too epic

Anyways, I didn't really mind FM3's soundtrack, but that was mainly due to it being turned off while racing, so I only heard it during the time I spent in the menues and tuning and such, which wasn't exactly a lot

The statistic menu in FM3 tells you how long you have been in the menu's - mines was at 40hrs or similar ! I was shocked.

 

[NLxAROSA]

GT5 piano music has always been a turn off, infact embarrassing, you have no idea how many times someone has shouted through to me while im playing, WTF are you listening to.

You know you can turn off individual tracks in GT5, right? The piano ones were the first to go in my playlist. I kind of like the synth-elevator-music tracks though, call me crazy.