FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[Com Fox]

Are you saying that premium cars make the game easier?

No, it is that the events would not have the really fast cars we see in standards. I would aee the GT All-Stars only having the R10 TDI, 787B, GT by Citroen Race Car and the Xanavi Z.

 

[Scaff]

No, it is that the events would not have the really fast cars we see in standards. I would aee the GT All-Stars only having the R10 TDI, 787B, GT by Citroen Race Car and the Xanavi Z.

I think you might be missing the point, in that had PD only included 'premium cars' then we would have had a much better spread of cars (both manufacturers, models and class) because they wouldn't have been able to rely on the 'Standards'.

In the same way that GT3 still had a balanced car list (well as balanced as GT car list get country wise) because it didn't pull across all the cars from GT2.

 

[Com Fox]

I think you might be missing the point, in that had PD only included 'premium cars' then we would have had a much better spread of cars (both manufacturers, models and class) because they wouldn't have been able to rely on the 'Standards'.

In the same way that GT3 still had a balanced car list (well as balanced as GT car list get country wise) because it didn't pull across all the cars from GT2.

I get it but how could you spread the DTM event with only a Lexus IS F Racing Concept or the Dream Car Championship with only 2 'dream' cars. The spread of Race Cars would be wrong with;
2 Group C.
3 LMP.
0 GT1 Cars.
1 DTM.
2 'Dream cars'.
There is a lack of them in the Premium section and I wouldn't want a GT world championship or the GT all-stars with only Road Cars when the PD Cup already handles that.

 

[Scaff]

I get it but how could you spread the DTM event with only a Lexus IS F Racing Concept or the Dream Car Championship with only 2 'dream' cars. The spread of Race Cars would be wrong with;
2 Group C.
3 LMP.
0 GT1 Cars.
1 DTM.
2 'Dream cars'.
There is a lack of them in the Premium section and I wouldn't want a GT world championship or the GT all-stars with only Road Cars when the PD Cup already handles that.

Nope you haven't got what I'm saying at all, you keep refering back to the existing premium car list. What I'm saying is that if PD had chosen not to include standard cars in GT5 then they almost certainly would not have picked the 200 odd cars they did for the current premium list.

As such you need to imagine a clean sheet of paper for the premium list, and its more than possible to have a good balance in 200 - 250 cars, take the S2U car list as an example....

http://wiki.nfsunlimited.net/wiki/SHIFT_2_Unleashed_Car_List

...now I'm not saying that's what GT5's premium list should have looked like, but it does show that a good balance can be had without the need for 1,000+ cars. Keep in mind that GT3 had less cars in total than GT5 has premium cars and still managed a reasonable balance (and without the advantage of being able to update via DLC).

 

[Com Fox]

Nope you haven't got what I'm saying at all, you keep refering back to the existing premium car list. What I'm saying is that if PD had chosen not to include standard cars in GT5 then they almost certainly would not have picked the 200 odd cars they did for the current premium list.

As such you need to imagine a clean sheet of paper for the premium list, and its more than possible to have a good balance in 200 - 250 cars, take the S2U car list as an example....

http://wiki.nfsunlimited.net/wiki/SHIFT_2_Unleashed_Car_List

...now I'm not saying that's what GT5's premium list should have looked like, but it does show that a good balance can be had without the need for 1,000+ cars. Keep in mind that GT3 had less cars in total than GT5 has premium cars and still managed a reasonable balance (and without the advantage of being able to update via DLC).

OK then. I think they would've done 400 premium or even 500.

 

[HBK]

OK then. I think they would've done 400 premium or even 500.

Unlikely.

Standard imports were literal GT4 imports. It's pretty obvious PD mostly had to develop an automatic import tool and maybe do some minor manual fixes. I don't think not including the standard cars would have allowed them to include much more Premium cars, I'd guess maybe 40~50 at best (very best).

Besides this import was most likely done by a different team than the Premium modelers. So it was probably "free" in that regard.

 

[Cassius101]

What about Graphically? GT5 looks better but I would like to see some standard cars in some side by side videos of the 3rd person car view, can someone please post some links of this? I was having trouble finding some.

http://www.gamereactor.eu/media/84/forza4gran_258452b.jpg

We need to see gameplay to know for sure. The best comparisons are 3rd person car views since this is where the game differs most in terms of how it looks.

 

[Eks]

I don't think people even bother comparing standard cars. But am I the only one who thinks that some look better than others? The '90s Miatas look bad and even less detailed, but the Lotus's look kinda great actually. Ugh, inconsistency at its best.

Also, I believe it is unfair to compare GT4 models to FM4 models. Yes I know they're in the game and are to be reckoned with but when we want to compare cars, it should come down to the developer's ability to model the cars and standard cars are way below PD's ability.
So in my eyes, it should be GT5 Premium vs FM4 cars.

But I guess in the end, people will always bring up standard cars when having a GT5 vs FM4 car debate.

 

[JDMLOVER]

Honestly I think Forza 4 is winning over GT5 at this point owning both games. Just got Forza 4 and it's the only thing I want to play. GT5 never had me feeling this way. I don't know if it's the sound or the much better structured career mode and the handling is awesome of course also GT's handling is amazing.
My only gripe with Forza is that they keep recycling car models. The Skyline GT-R R32 is still fugly as hell and the entire body looks swollen, the S15 still looks off, and the S2000 looks elongated and too rounded at the front. Enthusia modeled those cars better and that game came out in 2005. No excuses Turn 10 and for 4 games unchanged. but everything else is just amazing. Some of GT4 cars are even better modeled than Forza 4. They need to stop outsourcing their projects overseas. GT5's premium graphics still look better than Forza 4 also. Sometimes Forza 4 reminds me of Toca Race Driver 3 for the PS2 I think it's that goofy lighting engine.

 

[Luminis]

it should come down to the developer's ability to model the cars and standard cars are way below PD's ability.
So in my eyes, it should be GT5 Premium vs FM4 cars.

It should be GT5's premiums vs. FM4's AutoVista cars, then.

 

[Eks]

It should be GT5's premiums vs. FM4's AutoVista cars, then.

You got me there..completely forgot about them. But the onl difference is that their's slightly more detailed textures and engine is rendered...

I should've said FM4 dealership vs GT5 dealership.

 

[Luminis]

You got me there..completely forgot about them. But the onl difference is that their's slightly more detailed textures and engine is rendered...

I should've said FM4 dealership vs GT5 dealership.

I was jsut jerking your chain Sorry about that.

Either way, I guess there's no way to do a fair comparison. It's obviously not really fair to drag the standard cars into this, but if you're not doing that, that's cutting GT5 a huge amount of slack. Gonna have to wait for a game of each series that does without a tiered car list.

 

[buickgnx88]

...I think it's that goofy lighting engine.

I agree, there's just something about the cars in FM4 where they look realistic, but at the same time look fake. I also believe it's the lighting engine they used.

 

[Com Fox]

I don't get the "great" sound in forza, it is so unrealistic take the Calsonic for a drive in FM4 then watch a Super GT race with a GT-R going past and the BMW sound like vacuum cleaners.
They're great but unrealistic while GT5 is the Opposite (Not great but realistic).

 

[Luminis]

I don't get the "great" sound in forza, it is so unrealistic take the Calsonic for a drive in FM4 then watch a Super GT race with a GT-R going past and the BMW sound like vacuum cleaners.
They're great but unrealistic while GT5 is the Opposite (Not great but realistic).

GT5:


FM4:


The real thing:


How, exactly, is GT5's sound realistic? If anything, FM4 is far closer to the real thing.

 

[HAL20XX]

I've been to quite a few races in my time and never have I heard a car that sounds anything like the cars in GT5. I'm not saying that the samples are wrong, but it's obvious that they've synthesized the noises in-between their samples, especially above 4k RPM. Forza did a great job sampling the entire RPM range. The issue is that they turned the overdrive dial to 11. In reality, a lot of Forza's stock street cars sound like a car with an aftermarket intake. I can say with personal experience having owned an STi and Genesis Coupe, Forza nails the sounds of those cars.

EDIT: Holy crap that FM4 rig is awesome!

 

[Tornado]

I don't get the "great" sound in forza, it is so unrealistic take the Calsonic for a drive in FM4 then watch a Super GT race with a GT-R going past and the BMW sound like vacuum cleaners.
They're great but unrealistic while GT5 is the Opposite (Not great but realistic).

Oh my. I take it you've never heard of The Patented V6 Blazer Sound©®™?








Which is spot on, actually, but... not for a Corvette C5-R.

 

[Com Fox]

Maybe you got something but the sounds there of the GT500 in forza don't sound what they do in real life.

 

[Lock2Lock]

Maybe you got something but the sounds there of the GT500 in forza don't sound what they do in real life.

Neither does the 787B in Forza

 

[Luminis]

Maybe you got something but the sounds there of the GT500 in forza don't sound what they do in real life.

And this does "sound like real life", I suppose?

 

[Com Fox]

I'm on my 3ds now so I can't watch the video until later.

 

[Luminis]

Well, it was a rhetorical question, anyways. Because it isn't lifelike.

 

[Com Fox]

Well no sim can get anything 100 percent, like the real thing.
Doesn't matter if its GT, FM, NFS, iRacing or the V8 supercar series. "Nothing is like the real thing".

 

[thelvynau]

Well no sim can get anything 100 percent, like the real thing.
Doesn't matter if its GT, FM, NFS, iRacing or the V8 supercar series. "Nothing is like the real thing".

Your right but surely they can get closer than what we have.

 

[1241Penguin]

Well no sim can get anything 100 percent, like the real thing.
Doesn't matter if its GT, FM, NFS, iRacing or the V8 supercar series. "Nothing is like the real thing".

That is one of the poorest excuses I've ever heard. It's like saying Mario Kart is not 100 percent like real life, but no game is. Therefore, it's okay.

The world is not black and white, there's a lot of gray areas.

 

[lemans2005]

Honestly I think Forza 4 is winning over GT5 at this point owning both games. Just got Forza 4 and it's the only thing I want to play. GT5 never had me feeling this way. I don't know if it's the sound or the much better structured career mode and the handling is awesome of course also GT's handling is amazing.
My only gripe with Forza is that they keep recycling car models. The Skyline GT-R R32 is still fugly as hell and the entire body looks swollen, the S15 still looks off, and the S2000 looks elongated and too rounded at the front. Enthusia modeled those cars better and that game came out in 2005. No excuses Turn 10 and for 4 games unchanged. but everything else is just amazing. Some of GT4 cars are even better modeled than Forza 4. They need to stop outsourcing their projects overseas. GT5's premium graphics still look better than Forza 4 also. Sometimes Forza 4 reminds me of Toca Race Driver 3 for the PS2 I think it's that goofy lighting engine.

You got my point~ I love FM4 (of course GT5 too), but how can they keep using the same rubbish NA1 NSX model from FM1 to FM4?!

Even the NSX in GT1 has more accurate model than the one in FM4!

 

[Com Fox]

Your right but surely they can get closer than what we have.

I agree, imagine the future when simulation games will be 99.9 percent like real life.

 

[Luminis]

Well no sim can get anything 100 percent, like the real thing.
Doesn't matter if its GT, FM, NFS, iRacing or the V8 supercar series. "Nothing is like the real thing".

Well, obviously.

But you can get close to real life in terms of sound on lots of cars (which FM4 does) or you can screw up 95% of your car's engine sounds (like GT5). That's why I thing it's peculiar whenever someone claims that GT5 is more realistic in that regard than other games. I mean, that's what Kazunori once said, if I'm not mistaken. I don't know whether he even believes that himself or if he's aware of that being a daft statement... But I bet lots of folks will believe in what he said just because he's Kaz.

 

[Cassius101]

How many Premium cars does GT5 have now? I believe they would be equal in how good both games are if they had more.

 

[Zer0]

FM4:


The real thing:


How, exactly, is GT5's sound realistic? If anything, FM4 is far closer to the real thing.

The GT5 sound is much more setup dependant and spatial than in FM4. A direct video card sound recording played throught youtube to 2ch stereo it's the worst scenario possible and does not represent how the GT5 sound mix is perceived in a real multi channel setup.

On-air like your other comparisson vids:


Your GT5 example: