FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

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Rather pointless yes, but remind you that FM2 physics model is closer to the GT5's physics model, I'll mention the hidden assist but because such assist have an effect on how you understand and perceive the grip from each car, I don't see how the hyped tire model have some relevance over this discussion since the grip levels for each car are affected by the hidden assist.

Needless to say that tyre model is better in FM3, but flawed at the same time because of the presence of such assist, I do get that it simulates things closer to the IRL(like the tyre warm up for example), but the tyre wearing model is almost identical to its predecessor.

I also consider that FM2 should be included into this conversation, since FM3 is technically a striped out version of FM2(difficulty) I don't see why such things shouldn't be consider.
 
Luminis
I wouldn't use the words "spot on" for a game that doesn't make a difference between hard tyres and soft ones as far as the wear is concerned, but that's just me.

Also, FM3 started to take your driving into account. I don't really get how a flaw in FM3 that got fixed in FM3 is really relevant here, but again, that might just be me. After all, having flaws doesn't mean that it wasn't a bespoke tyre model, right?
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It seems it is just you.

I'm talking about FM2 because (a) I do have a decent amount of experience with this game, (b) much of the physics engine seems to have been carried over from FM2. Did they fix the minimum ride height issue? Where bottoming out made you faster? No. They added penalties. That makes me believe not much changed physics wise from FM2 to FM3. If tyre modelling in FM3 is as good as T10 claimed for FM2, then brilliant.

Second, GT5 makes good use of tyre wear across all compounds. Very few unfortunately got the hang of it and maybe balancing is a bit off.

I'm running the 4 hours Nurburgring endurance race, and you do have to worry about tyre wear a lot. One can get close to RH times on SS tyres. But you'll wear the SS out pretty fast. If one is easy on the tyres, 30 seconds a lap slower, They'll last. Problem is, many just don't get it. The way you can push the tyres beyond their comfort zone is realistic. But you'll pay the price. If you pushed too hard, the tyres go pretty fast. They wear even faster if you refuse to adjust.
 
akiraacecombat
Rather pointless yes, but remind you that FM2 physics model is closer to the GT5's physics model
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I wouldn't say that is a good thing though (being like GT5). FM3 did much better in regards to physics related to tires and damage than FM2 did.

I'll mention the hidden assist but because such assist have an effect on how you understand and perceive the grip from each car, I don't see how the hyped tire model have some relevance over this discussion since the grip levels for each car are affected by the hidden assist.
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I am glad this is gone in FM4.
 
ItsHim
It seems it is just you.

I'm talking about FM2 because (a) I do have a decent amount of experience with this game, (b) much of the physics engine seems to have been carried over from FM2. Did they fix the minimum ride height issue? Where bottoming out made you faster? No. They added penalties. That makes me believe not much changed physics wise from FM2 to FM3. If tyre modelling in FM3 is as good as T10 claimed for FM2, then brilliant.
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You were on about how the tyre wear didn't change according to your driving style. It does in FM3. So, what's the point of dragging FM2 in? That some parts of the physics engine have been carried over doesn't matter if this specific issue has been fixed, right?

ItsHim
Second, GT5 makes good use of tyre wear across all compounds. Very few unfortunately got the hang of it and maybe balancing is a bit off.

I'm running the 4 hours Nurburgring endurance race, and you do have to worry about tyre wear a lot. One can get close to RH times on SS tyres. But you'll wear the SS out pretty fast. If one is easy on the tyres, 30 seconds a lap slower, They'll last. Problem is, many just don't get it. The way you can push the tyres beyond their comfort zone is realistic. But you'll pay the price. If you pushed too hard, the tyres go pretty fast. They wear even faster if you refuse to adjust.
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Well, duh, there is tyre wear, of course. That wasn't my point. And that your driving style does affect it isn't, either.

The issue is was on is this: Thread about tyre wear on different compounds.
How spot on is a game if Racing Soft tyres wear just as fast as Racing Hard tyres?
 
zr1chris
Where is the mechanical damage in GT5??? Nowhere near very good imo.
There is videos in this thread that prove GT5 is very accurate on almost every track. I haven't seen any that were poor.
Forza has a much better car selection IMO. Forza has a much better variety.
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Are you kidding Chris, Forza is very Supercar focused. It has always been that way and from what am seeing it doesn't seem to be changing.
 
Daverytimes
Are you kidding Chris, Forza is very Supercar focused. It has always been that way and from what am seeing it doesn't seem to be changing.
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Certainly beats GT's focusing on Kei cars and other boring Japanese cars.

For me at least, Forza has more cars I'm actually interested in driving.
 
Don't agree with that.

There are a lot of supercar yes, but everyone is important in their own way.

however in the sports car category you have just as much choice, and same for hatch backs, it even have a few eco boxes.
 
Daverytimes
Are you kidding Chris, Forza is very Supercar focused. It has always been that way and from what am seeing it doesn't seem to be changing.
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No Im not kidding at all. Id rather drive cars in the game that I have almost no chance in driving in real life. If i really want to drive a civic or miata I can just buy one or test drive one.
 
Daverytimes
Are you kidding Chris, Forza is very Supercar focused. It has always been that way and from what am seeing it doesn't seem to be changing.
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I disagree. There are supercars and race cars, for sure, but T10 has focused on mid tiered and lower cars.

Since I'm a big VW/Audi/euro guy... Forza 1 had a Corrado VR6, 2 mk4 VWs (Jetta and R32) and a new Beetle Turbo S. Forza 2 added a mk2 GTI 16v and a mk5 GTI. Forza 3 then added a mk1 Rabbit GTI, the new Scirroco, mk6 GTI and the beast truck the Tourag R50 (and I'm not a fan of trucks btw)... No VW Nardo concept, although I'd love to have that in, but all VW options alone show that they expanded their 'normal/affordable' cars.

This isn't just a VW thing... the Audis saw just as many super/race cars added just as they did 'normal/affordable' cars. FM3 added the old and infamous Sport Quattro just as they added the newer TT, S4, S5, etc models on top of the different R8s. It's not just euro either... Ford saw well over double the brand count increase in FM3 from FM2. Not only did the super/race cars increase but I wouldn't call a Ford Fiesta a super/race car. They added car fan models like the RS200 Evo, the Focus RS, and even the RS500 Sierra Cosworth.

I'd rather take them adding a handful more super/race cars as well as 'normal' cars over having 20 different Miatas and 2 different Daihatsu Midgets. I mean really... no E30 M3 but 2x Midgets... :yuck:
 
Daverytimes
Are you kidding Chris, Forza is very Supercar focused. It has always been that way and from what am seeing it doesn't seem to be changing.
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This is suppose to be a racing game, not a drive to the store grocery store getter game.
Why is there so many kei cars in GT5? They lap Tsukuba in 1:45+ what good are they?
And FM has a better balance between all countries of origin, inlcuding Europe, Asia, and America.
There isnt 67 Skylines, but 10 Ferraris in the game.
 
Still, no rally cars, no open wheel cars and of course no concept cars, people might bitch about the presence of 20-30 models of the same car in GT5, but there is no denial in the fact that FM3 has a stretch arrangement of cars to choose from(no classics like ford T or nice concepts like the Tank car from Leno).
 
akiraacecombat
Still, no rally cars, no open wheel cars and of course no concept cars, people might bitch about the presence of 20-30 models of the same car in GT5, but there is no denial in the fact that FM3 has a stretch arrangement of cars to choose from(no classics like ford T or nice concepts like the Tank car from Leno).
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GT5 dosent have a Ford T....and the Leno Tank car? How is that important to motorsport?
And I believe GT5 has a license to have those WRC rally cars.
 
HELLAFLUSH240SX
This is suppose to be a racing game, not a drive to the store grocery store getter game.
Why is there so many kei cars in GT5? They lap Tsukuba in 1:45+ what good are they?
And FM has a better balance between all countries of origin, inlcuding Europe, Asia, and America.
There isnt 67 Skylines, but 10 Ferraris in the game.
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If you're on about forza? GT5 has 12. :P:tup:
 
akiraacecombat
Still, no rally cars, no open wheel cars and of course no concept cars, people might bitch about the presence of 20-30 models of the same car in GT5, but there is no denial in the fact that FM3 has a stretch arrangement of cars to choose from(no classics like ford T or nice concepts like the Tank car from Leno).
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bugATI.jpg
 
Again, the game hasn't come out.

And still, no open wheel, concepts or anything remotely similar (where is the T model in FM series).
 
akiraacecombat
Still, no rally cars, no open wheel cars and of course no concept cars, people might bitch about the presence of 20-30 models of the same car in GT5, but there is no denial in the fact that FM3 has a stretch arrangement of cars to choose from(no classics like ford T or nice concepts like the Tank car from Leno).
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Rally cars are simply touring cars on dirt tires. You can easily tune one. In FM3 there are at least 50 models that had been ran as a rally car in some form or another. Actually, which WRC winning model isn't in the game?

concept cars sure, the bertone and spada etc, but then concept cars usually dont have a sound engineering basis so its no big lost not to have a lot of them in a racing game.

Model T.......eh given how many classics that actually raced are still left out, better not waste space for something like that.
 
Daverytimes
Are you kidding Chris, Forza is very Supercar focused. It has always been that way and from what am seeing it doesn't seem to be changing.
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Supercar focused? Well, kinda, depends on what you compare it to. If w're talking about variety here, it's hard to make a case for GT5, though. May I remind you of the insane amount of Skylines, RX-7s and Miatas?

Unless, of course, variety means having 10 different versions of a car available. In my opinion, GT5 offers quantity over quality when it comes to the car list.

zr1chris
No Im not kidding at all. Id rather drive cars in the game that I have almost no chance in driving in real life. If i really want to drive a civic or miata I can just buy one or test drive one.
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Well, it's not like you couldn't drive those cars in Forza - it does have its Miatas, Civics and stuff.

HELLAFLUSH240SX
Is Forza 4 going to have 500 cars, or 800?
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Currently, 500+. Once all DLC and stuff is out, 600+, I'd think. if they're again releasing 12 car packs with 10 cars each, it might get very close to 700 a year after its release.

akiraacecombat
Still, no rally cars, no open wheel cars and of course no concept cars, people might bitch about the presence of 20-30 models of the same car in GT5, but there is no denial in the fact that FM3 has a stretch arrangement of cars to choose from(no classics like ford T or nice concepts like the Tank car from Leno).
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They obviously don't have open wheelers, but Rally cars? From the top of my head, there's at least the Super 2000 Peugot. Also, I'm rather glad T10 don't go around adding wonky cars. Having a 1886 Meceredes Benz Patent Motor Wagon might be funny, but how much time are you going to spend with it?

Aside from the open wheelers, it's mostly the wierd cars that GT has over FM when it comes to the car selection - and I'm glad they don't waste resources on that.
 
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stig's helmet
If you're on about forza? GT5 has 12. :P:tup:
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It was a guess at how little GT5 has. FM3 has over 30 Ferrari's and around 10 Skylines. I'd say thats much better than GT5's selection. GT5's list is pretty bad when they more Skylines which is only one model of Nissan than the entire brand of Ferrari.
 
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stig's helmet
If you're on about forza? GT5 has 12. :P:tup:
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https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=5695098

LMAO sorry.:scared:
I believe Forza has a wider variety of Ferraris in the game.
If you notice, the bio of the Ferraris in GT5 all have a connection with Japan except for maybe 1 or 2.

here is the Ferrari list.

Ferrari
2005 #11 Larbre Competition 550 Maranello GTS
1998 #12 Risi Competizione F333 SP
1998 #30 MOMO/Doran Racing F333 SP
2006 #62 Risi Competizione F430GT
2008 #71 Tafel Racing F430GT
2003 #72 Team Alphand Aventures 550 Maranello GTS
2003 #88 Veloqx / Prodrive Racing 550 Maranello
2008 #90 Farnbacher Racing F430GT
1957 250 California
1964 250 GTO
1957 250 Testa Rossa
1984 288 GTO
1967 330 P4
1999 360
2007 430 Scuderia
2010 458 Italia
1991 512 TR
2002 575M Maranello
2010 599XX
2007 599 GTB Fiorano
2004 612 Scaglietti
2009 California
2003 Challenge Stradale
1969 Dino 246 GT
2002 Enzo Ferrari
1994 F355 Berlinetta
1995 F355 Challenge
1987 F40
1989 F40 Competizione
2004 F430
1995 F50
1996 F50 GT
2005 FXX
 

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