FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

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frogmanlego
thet thingthat gets in my nerves about forza 4 is they swap out the display models with the in game models i ,
and as seen in the Enzo picture its hugely inaccurate, the front bumpers off by alot! as in game its just right but dosent look as good... , i just hope they stop falsely advertising with the high res cars and then when we see in game is slightly superior to FM3 =P
im pretty sure they buy the models on ebay lol =D the high polly count ones =D
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I really dont understand what you are trying to say here. Ebay models?
 
He means they buy the high-poly models from eBay instead of modeling them (guess it was meant to be a joke, ha ha).
 
G.T.Ace
He means they buy the high-poly models from eBay instead of modeling them (guess it was meant to be a joke, ha ha).
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Ahhh...ok, I am usually pretty quick to get a joke, but not much of what posted made sense. Thanks for the clearing it up.
 
I find it funny he brought up eBay models, when the underside of many GT5 cars show they got the models from well, models.
 
Time change and weather change is one of my favorite feature in GT5. The ability to drive at night and in the rain is awsome. It raining now and my brother and I took a quick drive earlier, he had me laughing because he said it reminded him of GT5.
 
Yeah, I loved the night and weather in the PGR series (still do!). It's an oldie but goodie feature to have.
 
Bogie 19th
Yeah, I loved the night and weather in the PGR series (still do!). It's an oldie but goodie feature to have.
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Never played it ughh makes me feel bad, you think the FM team will get weather in the FM5? Its a feature that can make the game so much better, especially the time change. Driving on the ring at night/sunset with the dials lit up is amazing.
 
Doubtful. If FM5 comes in about 2 years on the 720, I doubt we'll be getting night *and* weather. Actually, I think we will be getting neither of them. That would be for FM6 (in 4 years) on the 720. Unless they are willing to take 3 years to make FM5, then we would be getting both. But this does not seem to fit in the current Turn10 development cycle.
 
JDMKING13
Never played it ughh makes me feel bad, you think the FM team will get weather in the FM5? Its a feature that can make the game so much better, especially the time change. Driving on the ring at night/sunset with the dials lit up is amazing.
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Ya know, the time change thing is good if doing a real 24hr race. I would have to have an in race save though.

Going from day to night in one lap reminds me of grand theft auto.

Honestly.
 
HBK
Doubtful.
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Actually, probable.

If FM5 comes in about 2 years on the 720, I doubt we'll be getting night *and* weather. Actually, I think we will be getting neither of them. That would be for FM6 (in 4 years) on the 720. Unless they are willing to take 3 years to make FM5, then we would be getting both. But this does not seem to fit in the current Turn10 development cycle.
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The next FM will most likely be on the Xbox 3, and they will probably port the engine over as well. I imagine the time frame for the next Forza will be longer than the traditional 2 years.
 
Spagetti69
Ya know, the time change thing is good if doing a real 24hr race. I would have to have an in race save though.

Going from day to night in one lap reminds me of grand theft auto.

Honestly.
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I agree. I dont like the time lapse some games put in to "simulate" day/night cycle.
 
Spagetti69
Ya know, the time change thing is good if doing a real 24hr race. I would have to have an in race save though.

Going from day to night in one lap reminds me of grand theft auto.

Honestly.
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Well you have the ability to choose how fast the transition is, but time change is not only good for 24 hour its good for game play. To start with the sunset with 8 of your buddies and finish in the dark is a experience like no other.
 
Spagetti69
Ya know, the time change thing is good if doing a real 24hr race. I would have to have an in race save though.

Going from day to night in one lap reminds me of grand theft auto.

Honestly.
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Well there is ways to adjust it to make it fully day or fully night, or even lengthen the day to night cycle (or night to day). It can take up to an hour just to get to mid-day, let alone night, If you were referring gt5 to gta...

Edit !!! If you were referring to the a-spec 24 hour races then ya, i can agree with you on that,
 
JDMKING13
Well you have the ability to choose how fast the transition is, but time change is not only good for 24 hour its good for game play. To start with the sunset with 8 of your buddies and finish in the dark is a experience like no other.
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Agree'd... As INCOMPLETE GT5 is or will be, when its good, hell its better than good. Its beautiful !
 
JDMKING13
To start with the sunset with 8 of your buddies and finish in the dark is a experience like no other.
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Let's try and keep this about video games eh, lol.
 
Bogie 19th
The next FM will most likely be on the Xbox 3, and they will probably port the engine over as well. I imagine the time frame for the next Forza will be longer than the traditional 2 years.
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Maybe. I think it's highly probable that we will be getting Forza 5 as a launch title for the 720 by the end of 2013. All Xbox were launched with an in-house racing title. Now that PGR is gone, it's up to Forza. And I doubt MS would be willing to resurrect PGR. But only time will tell :sly:
 
HBK
Maybe. I think it's highly probable that we will be getting Forza 5 as a launch title for the 720 by the end of 2013. All Xbox were launched with an in-house racing title. Now that PGR is gone, it's up to Forza. And I doubt MS would be willing to resurrect PGR. But only time will tell :sly:
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Hope they base the console on Dan's needs.

32 car grid would be nice for a kick off.
 
HBK
Maybe. I think it's highly probable that we will be getting Forza 5 as a launch title for the 720 by the end of 2013.
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My thoughts exactly. They might even push Forza 5 back a few months if needed, I'd think.

Whether we'll see stuff like weather and/or dynamic time change though...
Spagetti69
Hope they base the console on Dan's needs.



32 car grid would be nice for a kick off.
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I just hope they put some decent amounts of RAM/VRAM in their console... And, yeah, a nice, big grid would be really cool.
 
Luminis
My thoughts exactly. They might even push Forza 5 back a few months if needed, I'd think.
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Yeah, I think that too, to match the next Xbox release (in case of an early 2014 release). But I don't see them pushing Forza 5 back more than a few months. They really seem to be willing to push out a game every 2 years.

But then again, that's some heavy speculation here :D

I don't see them announcing the Xbox 3/720/whatever its name will be at E3 2012. Halo 4 is scheduled for end of 2012 on 360. That would be kind of counter productive. But an announcement at E3 2013 for release by the end of 2013. Yeah, that seems likely. That would make an 8 years life cycle for the 360, which is pretty much in line with what was expected at the beginning of this generation.

Edit : And yeah, 32 cars on track would be nice. I don't see it happening though, too many associated issues (network congestion, game design balancing, and of course processing power).
 
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HBK
Doubtful. If FM5 comes in about 2 years on the 720, I doubt we'll be getting night *and* weather. Actually, I think we will be getting neither of them.
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I don't know, I tend to disagree on this one.

We all know that all in-game engines and probably assets from PGR series have been turned down to T10 after Bizzare left Microsoft. Also, at one point there was a gossip how T10 will actually continue to develop PGR series and we have also see assets with night/rain concept art in T10 studio overviews.

We also know how all this-gen engines (both graphics/audio and physics) are made to fit the constraints of current hardware but how actual assets originally made for this-gen games are in much higher quality than one we all get in final products.

My presumption is how T10 probably experiments with both Bizzare's engine and their own engine on some placeholder hardware for next-gen. Also notice how Codemasters already achieved a crazy level of development for their EGO 2.0 engine used in both Dirt 3/F1 2011 which already can do 24 destructible cars (graphically 25 with Safety Car) on track with open-wheel geometry and suspension animation and modeling, progressive mechanical damage modeling, high-res textures, fully animated drivers, fully animated cockpits with lighting and shadowing and full weather cycles and day/night cycles (notice how Abu Dhabi GP in F12011 will have day/dusk/night transition) with interchangeable skyboxes. All above can be run on 1080p/+60fps on decent PC with no problems. So, even current-gen engine can run everything we want from this gen driving games, only constraint is the 2005 hardware in consoles.

To cut long story short, I would be really disappointed if any of AAA racing titles on next-gen hardware doesn't come with all mentioned above. However, since GT series already presented all above on this-gen consoles - although with some problems, but goal is achieved - I would presume how roughly 4X more powerful hardware will allow that driving games come with all we want from them.

I can fully understand how current-gen hardware is limiting in every way imaginable but how possibility for them probably exists in every engine currently on the market. Slight return to past says how Codemasters introduced variable daytime changes even in EGO 1.0-powered GRID (on LeMans tracks), first TDU had pre-baked time of day that run in real-time, TDU2 introduced real time daytime and weather changes, Rockstar did the same with their GTA/RDR/Midnight Club engine, Eutechnyx deployed the best looking rain-effects on their PS3 racers Ferrari&Supercar Challenge games, I already mentioned PGR engine... and list goes on. But only constraint was 30fps because of insufficient hardware power, only being successfully tackled by Polyphony Digital through crazy programming.

In conclusion, engines to achieve everything already exist and it would be really surprising not to see them shine in full glory on the very beginning of next-gen lifetime.
 
I hear what you're saying amar. Thing is, I think you underestimate the overall scope of games like Forza in regard to those games using engines "achieving everything".

I really doubt in two years Turn10 can adapt to the new hardware (improving all graphical aspects accordingly) and on top of that add night racing and weather changes (even pre-baked), while still adding tracks and cars, and of course maintaining silky smooth 60fps.

I mean, it's not just a technical problem, it's also a game design problem. If you do night racing, you have to take into account that some race cars does not have headlights, or that slight contacts could break headlights and therefore leave players in the dark because of some slight mistake. If you do weather, you have to balance it properly so that it does not simply feel frustrating like "this sucks, i'm gonna restart until it stops raining" or like "ok, it's a rain trial, time to bring rain tires and drive carefully".

I mean, when you look at the way the Forza games are designed as games, it's obvious technical limitations were far from the only reasons weather and night racing were not implemented.

Edit : Even GT5 kept those two features out of the career mode for the most part.
 
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tribolik
Disk space has nothing to do with it... the current disk space in the xbox 360 - 250gb is enough...
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Facepalm....

He was talking about diskspace as in the disk the game is delivered on..
FM3 needed two discs for all the content..
 
ZSPaulus
Facepalm....

He was talking about diskspace as in the disk the game is delivered on..
FM3 needed two discs for all the content..
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He's got a point, though. Throw in a huge HDD and install the stuff that won't fit on the disk.

Actually, I wouldn't be suprised if this isn't going to happen for the next gen consoles, anyways - if only to cut down on loading times, and such.
 
Daverytimes
This is the problem with this argument, if i were to ask you a game that had all the features that GT5 provided in one Package you wouldn't be able to name a single one. Many games have one or two of the features in GT5 and some of them have perfected it but none of them has every one of those features in one package. Shift 2 might have the best night racing but it doesn't have weather, LFS might have the best physics but it doesn't have real cars, Iracing might have great physics and real cars but it doesn't have weather or track creator, you see were this is going? GT5 might have swallowed a bit too much but this is were the fun begins, GT6 will definitely improve on all fronts GT7 will improve even further GT8 will then take another leap and the cycle continues.
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Regarding the "there is nothing GT5 did that another game didnt do better" debate I'd state that you could make a similar arguement against Forza as well if you wanted to. I mean for me, I don't think any console game has trumped GT5 in the physics department yet, and personally since I'm all about the racing, that's an important feature.

I mean you could say "Well what does Forza do better than other games?" and think well gee, games such as Shift, DiRT and GRiD etc all have much better damage. Shift has way better audio. Track selection? Shift is king again, although GT5 also trumps Forza for sheer variety and the presence of a track creator. Graphics? GT5 is still at the top. Rewind system? Codemasters still wins there. Rivals mode? Autolog does the same thing but better.

You could go on and on. The point is though, is that you could use that arguement against any game if you really wanted to. For me? GT5 is currently king for physics, Forza is king for painting cars, Shift is king for emulating the actual feel/sensation of racing, F1 2010 does weather best and so on and so forth.

Now just because F1 2010 does weather better than GT5, does that suddenly mean that GT5 having tracks with dynamic weather is somehow not good? Of course not, the implementation in GT5 is fantastic even if it isn't across every track in the game. Likewise Shift has night racing for every track, does that somehow nullify the fact that GT5 has it? No. I mean sure not every track in GT5 has night racing but they did a hell of a good job with it and it's actually dynamic too.

I mean that's like pointing out how loads of games have livery editors so why give a hoot if Forza has one? It's totally missing the point and selling the games short at the end of the day.

I'll also point out that I'm talking about console games here. Games such as iRacing are obviously in a whole different league, so for comparison I always keep console games and PC sims in different groups. I mean you wouldn't compare a Nissan Micra to a Ferrari Enzo would you? :nervous:
 

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