FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

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Tapey
I know there's a crazy huge amount of videos out there showing all sorts of unrealistic physics glitches/fails happening in the Forza games but this is my personal favourite just because it makes me picture Darth Vader sat in one of the stands being a complete jackass :lol:




Oh and by the way, for people discussing Bathurst in Forza and how they could go about getting the track in the game, did any of you own the first Forza game? Forza 1 on the original Xbox had a track called Blue Mountains Raceway which was based heavily on Bathurst. I really have no idea why they haven't brought that track back to the series to be honest, I know a lot of fans miss it. Here's a video in case anyone wanted to see:

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Blue mountains is not even remotely close enough to the real deal for it to be a substitute.
 
Yeah I know what you mean but my point was that they made a fictional track based off Bathurst for FM1, so Turn 10 obviously like the track and could either bring back BMR or make another track that more closely resembles Bathurst you know? I have to wonder if they're totally oblivious to their fanbase wanting the track so badly, and if it was actually brought up and mentioned to Dan Greenawalt or whatever his response might be "Oh, we had no idea!" :lol:
 
Tapey
Yeah I know what you mean but my point was that they made a fictional track based off Bathurst for FM1, so Turn 10 obviously like the track and could either bring back BMR or make another track that more closely resembles Bathurst you know? I have to wonder if they're totally oblivious to their fanbase wanting the track so badly, and if it was actually brought up and mentioned to Dan Greenawalt or whatever his response might be "Oh, we had no idea!" :lol:
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Or is it another issue of EA having the rights to it??
 
Tapey
I know there's a crazy huge amount of videos out there showing all sorts of unrealistic physics glitches/fails happening in the Forza games but this is my personal favourite just because it makes me picture Darth Vader sat in one of the stands being a complete jackass :lol:
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Tapey that was amazing! :lol:
 
Why are people posting FM3 videos of online lag-related issues and calling them physics glitches? They are two different things. You won't see any of that stuff happen in single player racing. That's not to say everything is perfect, but a connection problem during online play isn't a physics model glitch.
 
BusierDonkey
Why are people posting FM3 videos of online lag-related issues and calling them physics glitches? They are two different things. You won't see any of that stuff happen in single player racing. That's not to say everything is perfect, but a connection problem during online play isn't a physics model glitch.
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I could have sworn I've seen a video of a single player race where a Ferrari ended up doing a tail stand somewhere. But other evidence of Forza's not-so-perfectness. GT5 isn't perfect either, obviously, but that doesn't mean Forza's without it's issues...and...btw, I've never experienced those lag glitches in GT5 online.

Nose stand:





Stupid AI in Forza 3:



Crappy Rollover physics:




Also ^ Are they REALLY still doing the wheel model change while the car's in motion? It looks so fake...Like the cars are hot wheel cars. And the rollovers are SLOW. I didn't think they were while playing, but in those vids, it's like gravity's been lessened. I hope Forza 4 fixes these issues.
 
SuperShouden
I could have sworn I've seen a video of a single player race where a Ferrari ended up doing a tail stand somewhere. But other evidence of Forza's not-so-perfectness. GT5 isn't perfect either, obviously, but that doesn't mean Forza's without it's issues...and...btw, I've never experienced those lag glitches in GT5 online.
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You have been very lucky then. GT 5 doesnt feel as fluid as FM 3 in multiplayer. In singleplayer there is no problem with distances and lag, but while playing online it feels very different in GT5. It is hart to dertermine the distance to the car in front or back sometimes. When a car get hit in GT5 it is even more odd then FM 3. Hit a standing car at 250 kmh and it get pushed 50 m back and no real impact force gets applied. Neither game can simulate crashes really, because the cars would get destroyed to a peace of metal. The force normally get minimized by the scrapped metal of the car, but neither game will do that. So that is why in FM the cars will fly away, but GT does town those effects way down.

Glitches are a bad proof for the inferiority of one of the both games, because there are physics that will never be simulated by any racing game.
 
I like those DLC cars they released for FM3 that couldn't be affected by collisions online, so if anybody even slightly bumped you during a race they'd always go flying away from your car regardless of the severity of the actual collision :lol:

That's what you get for scratching the paintwork you sluts :sly:
 
I think FM4's rollover should be quick, but not as quick as Shift 2's. Shift 2 looked like the cars were being blown away by a bomb.
 
Why are people going on youtube posting mostly lag spike glitch issues?

You really can tell who's played forza and who hasn't.


I can easily be here posting youtube videos for any game all day long.
Trying too hard, he is..
 
G.T.Ace
Bugs like that happen in every game (in PC sims even more), just look in YouTube for "Forza 3 glitch". You can do crazy stuff in FM3 too.
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I never said that you couldn't. I posted it because I found it funny.
 
cuco33
Why are people going on youtube posting mostly lag spike glitch issues?

You really can tell who's played forza and who hasn't.


I can easily be here posting youtube videos for any game all day long.
Trying too hard, he is..
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Except I've played FM1, 2 & 3 and will be playing FM4. Just like I've played GT1, 2, 3, 4, GTHD, GT5P & GT5. Forza 3 sometimes like the gravity got all screwed up and T10 increased the weight or mass of the vehicles to compensate, so you go around a slight bend and the vehicle just rolls...really slowly and awkwardly. GT5...you still roll awkwardly, but at least the vehicle feels like it's mass/weight and gravity are correct. But, most of the time, FM3 had good physics. Still, the most fun in both games is when you're destroying your opponents and just to mess with 'em, you spin 'em out.
 
SuperShouden
GT5 isn't perfect either, obviously, but that doesn't mean Forza's without it's issues...and...btw, I've never experienced those lag glitches in GT5 online.
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Bogie 19th
You have been extremely lucky then.
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Luck has nothing to do with it. He must have played GT5 for the first few hours he got it when nobody was on and then never played again. That's the only way I can see him playing GT5 online without experiencing any issues. This is no lie, I've honestly experienced more issues online with GT5 in the few months I've played it than the almost 2 years of FM3 play.

I already wrote an essay here about how what I think the PS3 is doing versus the 360 when it comes to online play so no need into going through all that.
 
I challenge you to try rolling over something like a Daihatsu Move or a Honda Life Step Van in GT5 and tell me if mass/weight and gravity for those cars feel correct.
 
GT5 feels better than FM3...that's ALL I'm saying. Both games have their glitches and issues and neither get physics and mass/weight/gravity or whatever perfectly correct. And I'm 100% positive that FM4 will actually be better than GT5 in pretty much every aspect. (Although, Dan was able to roll over the 458 pretty easily.) But I still don't THINK GT5 was a terrible game. Just like FM3 wasn't a terrible game. The Forza series is a great series; an awesome series and I love it. But I love the GT series, as well. That is why I will have a PS3 and a Xbox in my house soon.
 
t.o.
Luck has nothing to do with it. He must have played GT5 for the first few hours he got it when nobody was on and then never played again. That's the only way I can see him playing GT5 online without experiencing any issues. This is no lie, I've honestly experienced more issues online with GT5 in the few months I've played it than the almost 2 years of FM3 play.

I already wrote an essay here about how what I think the PS3 is doing versus the 360 when it comes to online play so no need into going through all that.
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Man, how often during races we were doing did we have trouble hearing each other? Heck, we couldn't even see people sometimes even though they could see us.
I'll take FM's online oddities over GT5's any day.
 
t.o.
I already wrote an essay here about how what I think the PS3 is doing versus the 360 when it comes to online play so no need into going through all that.
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Please don't - that's another topic for another thread.


Ta

Scaff
 
I'm pretty certain those roll over vids are slowed down. The sounds aren't right for a start. The roll overs in the game are quite violently quick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jlu6fitGlAE

There's a player performing a pit maneuver on M. Rossi. Resulting in Rossi getting sideways on the grass and rolling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEngB7clX9E&NR=1

Big rollover at sunset.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4TvqsZnWCE&feature=related

Landy roll.

Transferring force is difficult when your cars don't crumple. In real life, that f50 and skyline would have crumpled, absorbing the force, rather than transferring the force of the accident directly between each other. What you end up with is essentially two bricks hammering together.
 
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Odly enough, the most realistic rollovers I have seen in a game, is in an arcade-style racer.

Download the Driver San Francisco demo and roll your car when going over a ramp.

The weight of the cars is spot-on perfect. None of the moon gravity I see in GT5 and F3. Even the way they slide, with the engine-heavy side on the floor, is way beyond these "Sim" racers.
 
Well, this quote from the interview made early this morning on official Forza site will finally put some things into perspective.

I can presume that some issues, accomplishments and such can be understood in overal context.

If we cut down on the number of cars on track, used original Xbox-generation car models, dropped to 30 FPS, or (and this would be the most effective solution) built specific tracks from the ground-up to have less detail and thus extra performance headroom, then night racing and/or weather conditions may have been possible.
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More about this at this link:
http://forzamotorsport.net/en-us/underthehood2/
 
Funny enough, Dan. Shift 2 didn't have to cut down the number of cars on track, use pastgen models and build specific tracks. It only has 30 fps, yes. But as well as that it has dynamic lighting from every cars' headlights. Which FM doesn't have even on day tracks from any other sources rather than just sun.
And IBL seems to have its faults as well, for example any car in the tunnel turning black and no shadows casted from track lights.
 
amar212
Well, this quote from the interview made early this morning on official Forza site will finally put some things into perspective.

I can presume that some issues, accomplishments and such can be understood in overal context.



More about this at this link:
http://forzamotorsport.net/en-us/underthehood2/
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Reading that now, it kinda translates to: "The 360 isn't powerful enough to run night and weather at 60FPS with 16 cars on the track, so we didn't even bother getting the wet and night information from Pirelli...maybe with FM5."
 
OGL
Funny enough, Dan. Shift 2 didn't have to cut down the number of cars on track, use pastgen models and build specific tracks. It only has 30 fps, yes. But as well as that it has dynamic lighting from every cars' headlights. Which FM doesn't have even on day tracks from any other sources rather than just sun.
And IBL seems to have its faults as well, for example any car in the tunnel turning black and no shadows casted from track lights.
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They have quite clearly stated 30fps is a no go. So that's an irrelevant comparison.
 
Seems like they are being lazy.
Whats the big deal with dropping a few FPS.
If I can get some night races, 'm willing to drop A FEW fps
 
http://jalopnik.com/5476903/inside-forza-motorsport-part-i-where-the-magic-happens
http://jalopnik.com/5478591/inside-forza-motorsport-part-ii-making-the-cars-sound-awesome
http://jalopnik.com/5480781/inside-forza-motorsport-part-iii-the-physics-of-driving-games
Some really good read on FM3 development. For those who say that it's not a sim.

Spagetti69
They have quite clearly stated 30fps is a no go. So that's an irrelevant comparison.
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Making dynamic lighting only casted from the sun would be good enough. It worked with GT 5 already. The car headlights don't cast any shadows in GT 5 like they do in Shift 2.
From what I know is that IBL doesn't allow for this, simple as that.:sly:
 
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HELLAFLUSH240SX
Seems like they are being lazy.
Whats the big deal with dropping a few FPS.
If I can get some night races, 'm willing to drop A FEW fps
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I would rather cut the cars back to 8 and keep a stable frame rate but I would imagine that would anger others.

What I am glad about is that they are aiming for consistency across the board.

Once compromises creep in where do you stop? Dumb down the AI to free up resources.

I quite like the approach that until it's attainable to a satisfactory standard it won't be in.

Also the argument that Forza copies what ever GT implements has been addressed to a certain extent. Not that I find that to be true. There's not much artistic license you can add to a racing game.

It's a shame for sure but no surprise.

Yes GT still has the most bullet points on the back of the box.

NASCAR, WRC licenses. Snow, rain, 1031 cars, dynamic time of day, horns, racing suits and museum cars.

What Forza features is consistency.
Oh and Leaderboards, car clubs, customisation for all cars. Cockpit views for all cars. Better Damage modelling, quicker UI. Ability to save tuning setups, auction house, telemetry. Stuff that I like and will enjoy again.
 

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