FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Scaff
  • 8,743 comments
  • 625,007 views
We're not trying to make you think it's perfect, were just showing you that "cartoony" is a massive exaggeration.

I mean,

^Skip to about 30 second in for the actual video.

I guess he mean "cartoony" in the sense of a very simplified form of reality regarding lighting, shading, color treatment, etc... not necessary meant outlined classic cartoons painted with planar colors.

As an example:
[youtubehd]FGvTlzYjuXc&hd=1[/youtubehd]
 
I can make sense of that point to be honest even if its still not to my taste.
It makes little sense to argue tastes.

I just happen to kinda like GT "elevator tune" music. It's not the kind of music I'll listen separately as "real music", but it makes a rather nice soundtrack (even if it can get old pretty quick, but that's mostly due to a lack of variety within the soundtrack). I also think most "race tunes" are pretty well fitted (even if I tend to race without music for reasons many of us share, I think).
 
I guess he mean "cartoony" in the sense of a very simplified form of reality regarding lighting, shading, color treatment, etc... not necessary meant outlined classic cartoons painted with planar colors.
"Cartoony" is just troll bait.

Yes, it's over-saturated/way too colorful/not very realistic. But it's far from being "cartoony".
 
^^^Yes, I figured that, but that's not a cartoon, it's 3D CGI. There's a difference.

If that's what he meant he should have said so, but saying it looks like a cartoon, if were using the definition of cartoon here, is an exaggeration.

I think Luminis summed it up pretty well;

Plastic like, maybe, or oversaturated. If it was 'cartoony', one shouldn't be able to remedy the issue with a few adjustments to the camera settings in photo mode.



It might sound a bit pedantic, but "cartoony" just makes it sound like the graphics and lighting system are either utter garbage, or intended to look that way, and neither of those things are true.
 
HBK
"Cartoony" is just troll bait.

Yes, it's over-saturated/way too colorful/not very realistic. But it's far from being "cartoony".

It's simple GT looks photorealistic but sucks, Forza looks awesome and owns..👍

Forza 4 will demolish gt5 mark my words.

vztRx.jpg
 
Last edited:
I dont know about you guys, but I simply LOVE the fact that l can listen to judast priests - turbo lover, and motly crue's - kickstart my heart while in an endurance race running JGTC class vehicles in gt3. But i'll agree, gt3 so far is the greatest in the series in terms of not only how fun a GT game can be, but also in terms of music content.
 
I always put custom music on in my racing games, when I feel like having music play. I never bother with the soundtrack in the game.
 
Fun? GT2 was the one, GT3 was a "look at my pretty graphics" game.... GT2, on the other hand, had all the racing bases covered, true that it had a questionable soundtrack( Paranoid everyone?)... It's my opinion though, but I hated GT3 vastly because it was then that GT was transformed into a game of graphics instead of a game of racing.

Thinking about it I think I didn't like any GT after 2.... 4 was great, but all that constant loading and flickering frames, made me throw my PS2 in the closet once Forza came out. I even gave GT5 a chance and I thank God I only bought the game and played it on a loaned PS3.... I would be very pissed if I bought the console only for GT only to come out as disappointed as I did.
 
KreepaEvox
"but I hated GT3 vastly because it was then that GT was transformed into a game of graphics instead of a game of racing."

Judging with AI, I have actually had a lot more interesting and close races on gt3 than any other gt game I have played. Like for example, l am now doing an enduance race on tokyo r246, im on lap 46 out of 100 and the difference between 1st and 4th position is a mere 9 seconds, which is pretty far from what any other gt release can accomplish (through fair competition), and since 5 of the cars are split up into 2 different tiers of performance. And gt3 has some pretty good races too, they have races regulated by what drivetrain, tyre composition, car class/model, turbo/na, and license. But with gt2, i'll agree and disagree with what you say. The races are fairly organised and covered well with thought, but to say gt3 just focused on "looks" and not on racing is pretty crude. If they just focused on looks than we'd have another "gt5" on our hands now wouldnt we? Hehe, and might l add that the replay system is quite possibly the best l have ever seen in almost any playable racing game franchise.

! Edit ! In the arcade menu, the game actually awarded you with cars that you can unlock in arcade races. The harder the difficulty, the more cars you unlocked. And the only "in-game" cheat in the game was to make the level selection go from "hard" to "professional".
 
Last edited:
Sorry but in what way is it being silly? Its my opinion - the music is embarrassing, I have never had any other game receive critisism or shock from the BGM playing other than Gran Turismo.

I dont want to spend time putting music on my PS3 that I never play, I spend my gaming time on my Xbox my PS3 is a bluray player and i was really looking forward to GT5 which was good for a bit, I dont want to spend time changing the music in GT5 - I want to play the game for what I bought it for.

I dont want to be hassled with trying to find out what the track names are for the piano music or whatever garbage it is just to turn it off.

I buy the games to actually play them I shouldnt have to think about the BGM, I havent ever changed any games BGM only turned it off during play to hear the sound effects.

When I sit down to play on a console I want to play a game - not adjust things and take my time away from actual playing.


It's good to not like a music but to say that Jazz is embarrassing? common son. Unless you are really young i don't see how Jazz embarrasses you, GT5's music is those kinds of music that calms your heart.
 
The best thing about GT5's soundtrack (or any other racing game's) is that it can be turned off so you can hear your car properly.

Maybe not that desirable with most of GT5's engine sounds, but still.
GT5's music is those kinds of music that calms your heart.
:odd:
 
It's good to not like a music but to say that Jazz is embarrassing? common son. Unless you are really young i don't see how Jazz embarrasses you, GT5's music is those kinds of music that calms your heart.

What does age have to do with finding something embarrassing?

FYI i'm 25 thats older than you 'son'.

Embarrassing is a strong word I will agree but its still the word to be used, I wouldnt want anyone to hear me listening to that kind of music, is that so wrong?

Above all I do not like the music its annoying, I cannot relate to it, its just my opinion.
 
I wouldnt want anyone to hear me listening to that kind of music, is that so wrong?
Actually, you may want to think about it a little. But that kind of comment is neither here nor there.
 
Some games just have *their* music.

It is not just *soundtrack* or something that player should *listen* while playing, it is more a very deliberate design choice made in order to create all-around product.

Such examples can be traced at FF series, MGS series, Silent Hill or Siren series, as well as many other titles that are heavily influenced by wish to create some virtual universe.

As we talk about GT series, you have to look all the way back to the first game, take some cultural implications into account and also accept how Kazunori Yamauchi and his closest team of associates are trying to create a virtual universe that will have some unique spirit and carry some emotional impact onto players.

Notice I will not so much discuss "international" releases of the game, because of the one simple fact - both US and Euro soundtracks in every GT game so far was heavily influenced by SCE producers at particular territory. Thus the vast difference between GT3 US and Euro soundtracks for example, where regional SCE GT producers opted for songs they found "important" for particular territory (probably based on input from Sony Music division).

Another really bad example of above are changes made for opening themes for every GT game so far. You probably know about famous Moon Over The Castle theme, which is the trademark of the whole Gran Turismo series - same as "original" MGS theme (despite it is blatantly stolen by Tappi Iwase from Sviridov's Puschkin Garland overture) is for all MGS games (exception is MGS4 because of the copyright issues Kojima had with Sviridov copyright holders). That original Moon Over the Castle theme is used on opening intro of every GT game so far, but US and Euro producers never allowed it for the US/EU releases of the game. Result is completely butchered intros of all GT games so far - with only exception being famous GT2 Cardigan "Loosing my Favorite Game" intro that was somewhat made bearable - and greatest butchery being made for GT5 where they've opted for non-inclusion of original MOTC anywhere on the disc which I still can't comprehend.

First GT game had a great soundtrack from Masahiro Andoh and Isamu Ohira which was a tribute to Japanese heritage of 80's heavy-rock genre being associated with the driving genre. Notice how the first GT game was also the most profound soundtrack-wise because each manufacturer and section of the game carried it's own theme which was extremely beautiful detail and that was the place where Andoh and Ohira experimented with pure electronica. Since the first game Ohira is the man in charge of menu music.

GT2 also carried their work and GT3 introduced another great composer, Daiki Kasho. He continued his work together with Andoh and Ohira on GT4, creating some of the best songs for the game and GT4 was also the first to introduce a classical selection of the music for Photo galleries.

GT5 pushed the philosophy into further universe, with 189 songs and some of the best Japanese authors on the soundtrack through various genres. All of them are probably very carefully selected by Yamauchi and Ohira, both great lovers of classical music and contemporary jazz.

You may not personally like the music they are using for the game, but you should really try to *understand* the logic behind their choices. What Western people often hear as "another elevator music" is what Japanese contemporary-jazz authors currently experiment as of the most important genres for their musical scene.

If you take a time and explore the whole logic behind deliberate choices made for soundtracks in all GT games, maybe you would better understand the very clear and logical path of development of the unique and recognizable atmosphere of Gran Turismo series soundtracks. Also, no game except Gran Turismo can say it had the world's best piano player willingly opted to play for it's main theme and record his versions of some best classical pieces around for it's soundtrack.

What you find embarrassing - and you are really free to feel so, it is 100% your private opinion you're free to express - is probably just result of not being really into music and heritage of GT series philosophy. I really hope that one day you'll be able to comprehend and favor what Yamauchi and Ohira are doing for last 14 years.

For more information about actual changes for international releases of every GT game so far and vast differences of official soundtracks, here is the useful link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_of_the_Gran_Turismo_series

Regards.
 
HBK
Actually, you may want to think about it a little. But that kind of comment is neither here nor there.

I'd like to know why?

Its not really something thats up for discussion I mean its my opinion, its how I feel and if I dont want any association with it no one can argue about it.

This is going far off topic and sounding extreme, the BGM in GT5 to not being to my taste it doenst bother me, I just wouldn't like for anyone to think i'm meaningly listening to it.

And just to add if I dont like music in a game I would never sit and sort out my own music to play in game, i'd turn off the BGM and put my stereo on.
 
Great post amar 👍

As for barryl, this is completely off topic, but you may want to reconsider how you look at music if it's only driven by what people will think about it.

But then again, to each his own.
 
I don't see how 'understanding the logic behind something' is supposed to make it more enjoyable.

If I don't like Jazz, they can have the best reason in the world to implement it - I'm still not gonna like it.

For example, I can totally see the logic behind the paint chip system: It's a huge money and time sink. Does that mean I should find it more enjoyable than I do?
 
Very good post indeed. Though I have to say, She Sells Sanctuary and Panama were great inclusions for the US intro's of GT3 and GT4. Though it's probably just because I've been growing up with that music for about 10 years now!

One song I'd like to be featured as a Main Menu song in Forza or GT5 is Strobe-Deadmau5. I found that song very very good.
 
You may not personally like the music they are using for the game, but you should really try to *understand* the logic behind their choices. What Western people often hear as "another elevator music" is what Japanese contemporary-jazz authors currently experiment as of the most important genres for their musical scene.

If you take a time and explore the whole logic behind deliberate choices made for soundtracks in all GT games, maybe you would better understand the very clear and logical path of development of the unique and recognizable atmosphere of Gran Turismo series soundtracks. Also, no game except Gran Turismo can say it had the world's best piano player willingly opted to play for it's main theme and record his versions of some best classical pieces around for it's soundtrack.
What you find embarrassing - and you are really free to feel so, it is 100% your private opinion you're free to express - is probably just result of not being really into music and heritage of GT series philosophy. I really hope that one day you'll be able to comprehend and favor what Yamauchi and Ohira are doing for last 14 years.

For more information about actual changes for international releases of every GT game so far and vast differences of official soundtracks, here is the useful link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_of_the_Gran_Turismo_series

Regards.

I find no reason at all to explore the logic for BGM in a game when I dont care for the music. Thats is just a bit too much. I buy a game for the gameplay, not for the music, and especially when its an od selection that I dont find good (GT5). Unique? So is just about every other big budget games "music". Nothing special about it.

Please read the underlined statments.

Why should I care what Yamauchi and Ohira like? I mean seriously. Because two guys invloved with a game like certain music, it should be enough for me jump to attention and give a rats ass why?

I consider myself open to most generes of music, but to make it sound like GT's is so awesome that people that dont like it, "Just dont understand it", is really dumb. Just like everything else in GT5, cram a bunch of crap in, call it unique, and be done.
 
If so, GT5's feature to customize your background music would betray that thought process, no?

But, I agree: Music is important to games - to story driven games that want to raise emotions and convey the feelings of the characters. The older Final Fantasy titles were great at doing so, for example.

However, I don't consider GT5 (or Forza, for that matter) to be very story driven. And I can't help it, there's just no emotion to be conveyed when switching from, say, the garage menue to the upgrade shop. I find that to be a tad different from killing 'The Boss' in MGS3. That's where conveying emotions becomes important.

Also, knowing that Kazunori or whomever elses likes GT5's music doesn't change a thing for me. Wasn't it said on the previous page that other people's opinions about music shouldn't matter to you? If so, why is that even an argument?

To some people, Kazunori's taste may matter, fine. It doesn't to me, and, seemingly, to some others, neither.
 
HBK
Music is an important part of gaming.

These kind of messages make me sad.

Important to you maybe. Some games, RPG's for instance, I can see how music can help set the mood. Even in the Dragon Age series, I play with music off, though. Hell even GTA, Red Dead, and Midnight Club I turn it off. Thats the way I play.

With that said, music in a racing game? No thanks. I like the engine sounds, shift transitions, and tires screeching. Even in the menus, after an hour of painting and tuning, I cant stand the BGM.

If I want to listen to music, Ill listen on my long drives at work, or pop in my MP3 with music *I* like, and not some music Kaz likes, thank you.
 
I'll try to be a little more clear.
If I want to listen to music, Ill listen on my long drives at work, or pop in my MP3 with music *I* like, and not some music Kaz likes, thank you.
I was replying to this :
I find no reason at all to explore the logic for BGM in a game when I dont care for the music.
You indeed *do* care about the music. You have every right to hate GT5's soundtrack. Just don't say you don't care in order to try to justify what shouldn't ever be justified (your musical taste), when you clearly do care, and rightfully so.

Music *is* important in games. Music *is* important in racing games. Not liking GT5's soundtrack is perfectly fine. Replacing it with a musical score that fits your tastes is perfectly fine.

But (not necessarily replying to you directly) saying GT5's soundtrack is embarrassing is just a tad bit presumptuous.

Edit :
To some people, Kazunori's taste may matter, fine. It doesn't to me, and, seemingly, to some others, neither.
I don't give a rat's ass about Mr. Yamauchi's musical tastes. It just happens we kind of share similar tastes, or so it seems.
 
Last edited:
These are racing games so the music score is far less important than a game trying to tell a story or set the mood. Games like shooters or RPGs is where music is important. A racer? Not so important.
 
HBK
As for barryl, this is completely off topic, but you may want to reconsider how you look at music if it's only driven by what people will think about it.

Now your twisting it a bit as I have said all along I do not like the music at all AND that I dont want to be associated with it.

I never once said I don't like it because other people don't like it.

My interests in types of music has absolutely nothing to do with anyone else but me and what I like.
 
HBK
You indeed *do* care about the music. You have every right to hate GT5's soundtrack. Just don't say you don't care in order to try to justify what shouldn't ever be justified (your musical taste), when you clearly do care, and rightfully so.

Music *is* important in games. Music *is* important in racing games. Not liking GT5's soundtrack is perfectly fine. Replacing it with a musical score that fits your tastes is perfectly fine.

I dont quite follow. I really dont care about the music. Thats why I turn it off in 99% of the games I play. I never once said I hated GT5's music, I just "dont care" about it. I dont care enough about it to get into some spiritual journey that armar212 was trying to take me on.

Music might be important for you. Not for me. You see, I wouldnt even take the time to replace GT5's music with a musical score that I like. Why? Because like I said before...I dont care for music in games.

Now take the music by itself, and I find GT5's music something that I dont care for...in game or out.

So I just dont get this insist that I do care :)
 
If so, GT5's feature to customize your background music would betray that thought process, no?

But, I agree: Music is important to games - to story driven games that want to raise emotions and convey the feelings of the characters. The older Final Fantasy titles were great at doing so, for example.

However, I don't consider GT5 (or Forza, for that matter) to be very story driven. And I can't help it, there's just no emotion to be conveyed when switching from, say, the garage menue to the upgrade shop. I find that to be a tad different from killing 'The Boss' in MGS3. That's where conveying emotions becomes important.

Also, knowing that Kazunori or whomever elses likes GT5's music doesn't change a thing for me. Wasn't it said on the previous page that other people's opinions about music shouldn't matter to you? If so, why is that even an argument?

To some people, Kazunori's taste may matter, fine. It doesn't to me, and, seemingly, to some others, neither.

You are twisting it to your liking.

So an add of Porche with Deadmou5 playing in the background will make you feel the same if it was Michael Jackson?

Music is an important aspect of EVERYTHING in life. HOW important is up to you.
 
Back