Harry Freq
(Banned)
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- United Kingdom
FM7 vs. PCars 2 vs. GT:Sport
- Thread starter HighSeasHoMastr
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There is no way Forza 7 has anywhere close to better feedback than PC2 regardless of hardware. I use a CSW V2 and the Forza demo whilst serviceable was a long way from good and the 80 page thread on the Forza forums talking about the FFB not being very good would tell me most people agree.
I bought an Accuforce in the BF sale along with Forza 7 Ultimate Edition so I will be testing it on both wheels but I would be shocked if it is any better. The controller gave more feedback than the wheel in my experience.
Sorry my bad I read the other reply and merged the two. I still have to say the FFB in the demo was so far from superb I feel like we played two different games.
Comparing it back to back with PC2, AC, RRRE, Autombolista etc. it has pretty terrible FFB in communicating what the car is doing when on and over the limit, it was pretty lifeless. Big improvement over FH3 and Apex but still a long way from good.
I turn off all the fake FFB effects too as I have a Buttkicker to take care of that so it's not like I even expect tons of effects but it's just lifeless.
Take vibration for example what is that setting trying to do? As far as I could tell it was just a copy/paste from a controller to vibrate on uneven ground in a very canned way without actually giving any feedback.
Perhaps it's much improved in the full game and like I say I've picked up the ultimate edition and an Accuforce so I'm not trying to **** on the game, I just don't think it has good FFB and neither do most people. You said he can't refute your claims because he doesn't have the same wheel but I do and we shall see.
Keep in mind that Forza 7 does not yet have native SC4/Accuforce support and so you will need to use GIMX and a USB adapter to get FFB, etc. GIMX emulates a G27 and so it allows you to use your wheel, pedals, etc. in Forza 7 because the G27 is a support wheel. More details can be found here:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...ogitech-driving-force-gt-g27-with-ffb.336625/
Yeah, its a good question. I will try my Accuforce tonight with Forza 7, without using GIMX and will report back. I am on the iRacing forums and the owner of Simxperience, Berney Villers, just posted the following note:
"I'm not sure why this would be needed to play Forza Motorsport 7 on the PC with the OSW. To the best of my knowledge, no special hardware is needed to run the AccuForce with the PC version of Forza Motorsport 7 on Windows 10. (emphasis added) If any AccuForce owners find that to not be the case, please start a thread in the SimXperience Owners Club forum to discuss."
- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
- 10,735
- Plymouth, UK
- motorforum
Having no qualms about how 7 would feel to play given previous experience in the series, I have to say, GTS has definitely come more in line with the Forza approach to car feel. Not quite there, I do miss the more subtle elements of car control that only Forza has really nailed on a pad, but certainly better than GT6 where the transition of grip always felt very black and white.
Eventually I will get 7, but I don't feel bad for going the GT route this time.
Eventually I will get 7, but I don't feel bad for going the GT route this time.
How does that make the FFB bad because one wheel doesn't work, DD wheels don't work on consoles so does that automatically make them all suck, no.
Anyway been playing some Forza on the pad first and now starting on the wheel, feels pretty good so far actually, better than the demo but will need to adjust some settings now as still felt a bit rubberbandy on stock settings.
Not really, he bolded the part where I said regardless of hardware as if the G920 not working meant Forza 7 has better FFB. All that means is he hasn't even been able to compare.
What was you interpretation of his comment then? Unless he was just using it as another opportunity to say how bad PC2 is, otherwise it had no real relevance to my point about FFB quality. Every wheel works in PC2 on PC but the same can't be said of Forza 7, swings both ways. Perhaps next time I will ask what it has to do with what I said to keep you happy
.Now back to testing Forza
- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
I didn't say it was bad.
You said it's better regardless of hardware.
I pointed out that's not true.
FM7 may not work with every wheel on PC, but they haven't been making games on PC as long as PCars has on Xbox.
Another obvious difference is that FM7 is decent with a controller, PCars feels like an old Test Drive from PS2 with it.
It is better though, just because it doesn't work for you doesn't change the underlying physics/FFB does it now, that would only be the case if it was only tuned for one wheel with 30nm of force that wouldn't scale on anything lower and just clipped everything losing detail which is not the case. I'd also like to point out that plenty of people are having issues with the G920 on Forza 7 too...
FM7 is decent with a controller because of all the hidden controller assists, turn them all off like every other full sim and they are just as hard to drive with a controller. Forza makes it much easier to drive with a controller by cheating basically but it also numbs a lot of the characteristics of the cars to do so and over the limit cars feel completely different on a wheel compared to a pad without those controller assists.
It's a double edged sword but obviously the majority of their demographic are pad users and that's what it's tailored to, it's just two very different approaches and perhaps you could argue SMS should have added those controller assists on consoles but it's very hard to balance vs. a wheel if you actively make cars much easier to drive on a pad.
- 14,424
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
It's really not cheating. It's just dampening inputs to smoothing out transitions from lock to lock, considering the lack of rotational degrees available to it. Simulation steering gives you that feel you get from other sims, and it's pretty bad at times, but completely manageable with time.
I'm not so sure I agree. They can design the game around the wheel and introduce similar dampening aids when a controller is connected.
I only mean cheating in as much as using driving aids a car didn't/doesn't have is "cheating" to make it so someone is able to drive it when they otherwise wouldn't be able to.
I really wish they would implement a realistic aids setting along with not making me use a clutch in every car if I turn on manual with clutch, not to mention the basic omission of automatic steering lock!
We can argue over how much filtering should be used on a controller but holy crap for the budget and size of T10 to not have your basic automatic plug & play wheel settings to match the car is a sick joke.
They can do that but then the "hardcore" sim racers get all pissy and claim it can't possibly be a real sim because it's too easy on a controller, honestly the little cults in sim racing communities are a weird and do more harm than good. I love all racing games and unless they are really bad (NFS 2015!) I'll enjoy any type.
- 14,424
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
Still doesn't make much sense considering the actual toggleable aids available in game. Not every car has the opportunity to be willy with them, like we are in these games.
Eh, I'm not interested in that much realism. I'd rather not be restricted to the vehicle, especially in games like Forza where customization is a big thing. EDIT - just saw that you asked for a setting, and yeah, I agree for those that want it.
No comment there. No wheel on my side and no interest in one as it sits.
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Compare it it PCars and Assetto Corsa you can do all the same things in those as Forza driving aid wise mix & match and force them all to use the same ones but you also get an additional realistic aids setting which basically just gives you whatever the real car would have automatically. In some cases it makes cars easier to drive than if you went out with no TCS or ABS as a lot of modern supercars cars aren't designed to be driven well without the electronic aids.
Same thing with manual gears and clutch, if the car has an h-shifter you'll need to use the clutch and shifter but if it has a sequential shifter then you won't need to use the clutch because it makes no sense as an electronic sequential shifter is faster in reality. There are even some cars which have sequential stick shifts which need the clutch on upshifts (Ginetta GT4) it's just interesting to find out stuff like that.
I'm guessing flat shifting with damage off is still glitched and faster than driving properly though which is all the more reason the change it!
Customisation doesn't really effect it, if anything the fact you can switch gearboxes to improve shift times already could be played out with the physical change too.
Automatic degree of rotation on the wheel is super important though as trying to drive an F1 wheel with 900 degrees when it's meant to be ~360 is a nightmare.
Going off on a long tangent now so I will be quite for a bit
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- 14,424
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
I'm completely aware of that. I'm just not to fussed for such a feature, to be honest. As an option, it would be fine, but it would be something I don't use.
It's not glitched, it's just as you said, damage is off. What needs to happen is that there needs to be damage when hitting the rev limiter, as you'd still need to use the clutch regardless.
That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about how it wouldn't fit for me because I like to customize, and I wouldn't want to be restricted to an automatic only, just because that's how the car came in real life. Modifying a car to leave it automatic would just be a bore for me. That's why it would affect customization for me if it was a forced feature, but that's not what you're asking for.
Didn't mention, insinuate, or comment on this.
Well it is glitched in the sense you don't lose any speed when doing it, it's been an issue in all MS racing games since Project Cars and they just don't care! Fanatec CSR wheels even had an auto-clutch feature to do it for you, every other racing game implements a delay to stop this happening but I guess I shouldn't be surprised when the whole PI system isn't balanced anyway.
I guess I'm just more interested in knowing what a car would drive like in real life, much prefer stock cars rather than some upgraded abominations, may as well have fantasy cars at that point at least then we'd get a full damage model!
No it hasn't shipped yet, should be sometime this week. Just on the CSW V2 at the moment kind of wondering why I upgraded now as it's a great wheel still, damn Black Friday sales lured me in
.No it hasn't shipped yet, should be sometime this week. Just on the CSW V2 at the moment kind of wondering why I upgraded now as it's a great wheel still, damn Black Friday sales lured me in
I tried playing Forza 7 last night with my Accuforce without GIMX. I was able to map buttons, pedals and steering in game, but there is no FFB.
- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
On the subject of "flat-shifting", the amount of times you can do that to normal road cars is simply astounding.
Your car really shouldn't break down, and it really should be faster.
I've done as much as both, personally, at the drag strip, in real life in a real car.
I've owned multiple cars that I flat-shifted hundreds or possibly thousands of times, without anything ever breaking, not once.
- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
Yes.
Because the time gained isn't worth the damage done. (I didnt say it causes no damage)
Just because something is too damaging to install as a factory setting, doesn't mean the car can't do it 1,000 times.
Race cars are driven hard for a long time and already subject to breakdown. Additional stress is even more important to avoid.
But running a drag race, or 3 laps around Laguna Seca?
No problem.
- 16,495
- Grea'er Laandan
- UKMikeyA
- UKMikeyA
