For Gods sake remove F50 from n300.

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Pururut, Mar 24, 2019.

  1. Pururut

    Pururut

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    Another N300 race and F50 again dominating the leaderboards. Just remove this car from N300. Please.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  2. TS050

    TS050 Premium

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    a) You can’t just remove a car from a class

    b) If you can’t beat em, join em
     
  3. Grandea GTR

    Grandea GTR

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    But it can be beaten, you just have to play around with tunes, know the cars characteristics, etc.

    It'll take a bit of effort, but if you can't put in the effort, I don't know how else to help you from there.
     
  4. MIE1992

    MIE1992

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    Here were my ideas:
    -Eventually, we could see races (both within the FIAGTC and daily races) wherein it's not just an "anything goes" situation beyond being limited to an N-series (and enacting BoP and without tuning), but instead, we could have an N-series race that limits players to a particular set of cars within that group, instead of either making it a one-make or allowing any car that can be in that N-class. So for example, I'd love to see an N300 race that essentially replicates the "J-Sports Meeting" event in GT League, wherein you'd be limited to Japanese cars within N300.

    -Also, in addition to the above (or instead in some cases), there could be an option introduced to either allow or prohibit cars that are "N-series migrants," like how an N300 car may be eligible for N200 or N400 with the right amount of power tuning.

    Personally, I'll probably use the S-FR Racing Concept. I'd use the X-Bow R but I really prefer how the S-FR Racing Concept drives. Much more stable, IMO.
     
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  5. outofspace

    outofspace

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    Same issue like when the GT40 came! I'm still sticking to my NSX or RX7!
     
  6. VeeDoubleU

    VeeDoubleU

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    The problem isn't the car, it is the way classes are formed purely based on power.
     
  7. Pururut

    Pururut

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    You cant tune your cars in nations cup.
    A) You can.

    b) Car itself is too damn stable that doesnt suits my style.
     
  8. GT_Alex74

    GT_Alex74

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    As much as I love the F50, I agree that it shouldn't be raced in N300, at least in FIA events. There's actually a simple fix for that : don't allow cars to be detuned below their original class. Cars being built to handle superior levels of power will end up with more traction, and generally wider tyres allowing for more mechanical grip. There would still be some OP cars (the KTM would just take over in N300 because as someone else said already power-based classes is stupid), but that would already fix a lot of issues. Upgrading a car to a superior class is okay though, it's quite rare they can deal with more power as easily since you can't fit wider tyres or tweak their setup.
     
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  9. Aphelion

    Aphelion

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    I DONT LIKE IT, GET RID OF IT NOW!!
     
  10. ed24

    ed24

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    I would rather that they don't allow detuning into other classes considering this game is built around using fairly 'factory' tunes of cars.
     
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  11. ShiftingGears

    ShiftingGears

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    The BOP of N-classes need a complete overhaul OR they need to be sub-divided into smaller classes because there is no point driving 95% of N-class cars in sport mode - and that's on the rare occasion that they are actually eligible to enter.
     
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  12. Pururut

    Pururut

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    You clearly missed the point.
     
  13. praiano63

    praiano63 Premium

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    The new Supra is almost in the path of the F50 , top speed is almost the same , just a bit slower , cornering speed is a few better , the only problem is to maintain the supra inline under accel . This is due mainly to the LSD acceleration setted to high for sport tires ( or for normal fast average drivers like me )
    I would not be surprised if any alien place this car in the high top 10 leaderboard.
     
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  14. NJ72

    NJ72

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    I concur. I tried a few cars out for the event for a laugh, then looked on the top 10 times.. 8 F50s and 2 x-bows... What's the point in even joining the race if you don't want to drive one of those cars?
     
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  15. Leo Thorne

    Leo Thorne

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    Two days ago I deafeated an F50 with the 1997 Supra doing N300 races on mount panorama. The only reason I won though was because he got a 4 second penalty...
     
  16. CallawaySS

    CallawaySS

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    The N classes are mess. For example, you have KTM in N300, even though that car is as fast as some N500 cars. Or Dodge charger in N700, it's just a mess. Why did they choosed this system based on power inputs is beyond me.
     
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  17. Pururut

    Pururut

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    F-150 raptor is even worse then Charger hellcat.
     
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  18. MIE1992

    MIE1992

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    Would making the N-series categorized by power/weight ratio be better? That’s what it potentially sounds like. Plus, you’d still be able to include “migrant cars,” and I don’t think they’d be as much of an issue if the class was based on power/weight ratio.

    But that said, I’d be fine with the current system (being by BHP) if we had more “sub-rulesets,” like being limited to a particular group of cars within an N-series class, or seeing an option that prohibits “migrant cars.” I.e. the ideas in my previous post ITT. I’d also say the same of the other classes, like having a Gr.1 event specifically limited to the Group C racers.
     
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  19. GT_Alex74

    GT_Alex74

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    Then you run into the issue of old vs modern cars, cars with aero, different drivetrains...

    Since they use AI to work on BoP, they should just use the AI to makes groups based on lap times + 1000m top speed from a rolling start, or something like that.
     
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  20. snowgt

    snowgt

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    The 911 (996) has a favourable N300 BoP and should be able to compete.
     
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  21. NJ72

    NJ72

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    I don't think it's the BHP that's the issue, it's more that if you reduce the power of a car that was designed for more then it usually has higher mechanical grip in cornering than something designed for less power.

    For example, I had a play in the ND MX5, tuned up to N300. It's hilariously hard to drive quickly because the chassis and suspension weren't designed for 271% power compared to stock :p

    IMO, if you're holding an N300 race, it should be cars that are N300 as standard, rather than allowing cars to be tuned up or detuned.
     
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  22. MIE1992

    MIE1992

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    Sounds good. Maybe that should be for most, if not all Sport Mode races, and allowing “N-series migrants” could still be an option in lobbies, for a fun/experimental option.
     
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  23. Pururut

    Pururut

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    911 is another op car at n300 if the track has straights like monza, tokyo expressway etc.

    The funny thing is easiest to drive are the best cars. Hard to drive cars should be more rewarding when adjusting bop. For example a car like lamborghini countach (a car infamously unstable) should beat everything at straight line. But no 911 still accelarate better.
     
  24. CLowndes888

    CLowndes888

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    It is one of the most pathetic design choices ever. Although the PP system in GT6 had it's flaws, it took more than just power into account.
     
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  25. snowgt

    snowgt

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    It’s not really a bad design choice, because it could be handled a lot better within the current design.

    What they apparently do, is to set x00 PS (metric hp) and a certain weight as default parameters. They only adapt the power, if the car cannot be made any lighter or heavier anymore via the restrictors. There’s some other minor factor though, because the weight also seems to compensate for other car characteristics sometimes.

    Within the given boundaries (PS +-50, weight fully adjustable) a much better BoP could be achieved though. It won’t be possible to balance all cars in any given N class, but there shouldn’t be differences of 10s per lap, and certainly there should be no OP car at the top (I.e. where it matters).
     
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  26. MIE1992

    MIE1992

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    Where’d you hear they use AI? That does make a lot of sense in concept - seems more efficient for PD.

    If they use AI, then I think that’s all the better reason to have BoP calculated depending on which car is on which course, and especially with the idea of using lap time.

    I also think it’d be nice to take a note from Pokemon’s competitive modes, and potentialy show usage stats for certain cars on a course. Alternatively, they could show the top 20 lap times for an event instead of the top ten, and also have options to show the top times within more parameters, such as by automaker, by drivetrain, etc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
  27. GT_Alex74

    GT_Alex74

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    Kazunori said that himself. You can find it in a GT Planet interview.
     
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  28. Pururut

    Pururut

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    Pd uses AI to adjust bops. Thats why All cars were horrible unbalanced at the launch. They fixed every other class except N.
     
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  29. MIE1992

    MIE1992

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    Did they? Because it sometimes still feels like some cars in the other classes continue to have an unusually high amount of usage. And some seem less viable, like the Group C cars within Gr.1. I still think they should try having "sub-rulesets" for some of the classes, where on top of being limited to a given class with BoP enabled, they could limit the player to use certain cars within a class. That could make things interesting, almost like making Sport Mode versions of the GT League events.

    I did have an idea, for a future game. And I'm pretty sure they'll allow you to tune your car(s) more like you did in prior games, but I think it'd be a nightmare for everyone involved if they tried to balance cars with various levels of upgrades installed to be viable. So here was my idea. The N-series in a future iteration of GT Sport (and IIRC the next game will feature Sport as a separate mode of sorts) could really emphasize the fact that the involved cars are stock, and only allow cars that have not been modified by the player. However, the player can upgrade a car to make it a formal Gr.4, Gr.3, etc. car in a fashion similar to the RM game mechanic. Or, maybe these more typical upgrades could be one of the things prohibited if tuning is disabled, and if you'd added parts to your car, they could either be taken off for you to re-install later if you want, or your modded car will not be eligible to enter. Perhaps tuning being disabled could also prevent a race from allowing "N-series migrants" like the F50 within N300, and would only allow an N-series to permit cars that would be in that class as stock, before BoP is applied, and BoP would not take the car out of its initial class.

    And on top of that, I'd also put the Toyota S-FR Racing Concept in Gr.X, as it's a concept race car. (It even seems to come with center-lock wheels.) I'm otherwise fine with concept cars being in the N-series, like the normal S-FR, the RX500, or potentially the FT-1. I wouldn't mind the S-FR Racing Concept being bumped up into Gr.4, though. It'd actually be sort of neat, since Gr.3 already has the GR Supra Racing concept.

    I am also curious, though, as to why it feels like some track-only cars are added to the N-series and others are added to Gr.X? I recall that the Zonda R and P1 GTR were added to Gr.X, yet the Vulcan is in the N-series. Perhaps PD made this decision post-launch, to add track-only cars to Gr.X? I wonder if this is also why the Vulcan has its braking & downforce issues, like it's "dumbed-down" for the N-series...
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
  30. JoeDaSnow

    JoeDaSnow

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    I had used the Ferrari F50 in yesterday's Nations Cup race at 5PM but I found out that car was difficult to drive. I sold that car then switched to the KTM X-Bow, then entered the 7PM race and won that one. That's where I realized I was better off without the F50.