Ford Mustang/Chevy Camaro off?

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LVracerGT

LVracerGT

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LVracerGT
I was interested in starting a Continental Tire series so yesterday I started doing some testing with the Mustang, Camaro, and BMW M3 when I noticed something very disturbing.

I have quite a bit of experience with the 05-08 Mustang in real life. Besides that, they are known to be good handling track cars. Even more so with the 09-present (I have no idea why the current Mustang isn't in GT5). But the Mustang handles like a pig. No matter what I tried with the setup, different suspension, nothing cured the blatant understeer. Even reducing weight, adding it back and throwing all of the ballast to the rear (bringing the weight distribution from 65f 35r to 56f 44r) didn't help. That in itself irritates me because the figure I found online has the Mustang weight distribution to 54f 46r.

Furthermore, the Camaro, with no setup work, obliterated the M3. Now I know the Camaro is a good car, but the outright grip feels like GM paid off PD to make the Camaro feel like it's on rails in any situation. It's near arcade feeling. Even 100HP lower than the M3 it was still quicker.

Feel free to discuss below. And no Chevy vs Ford fanboy stuff. Serious discussion only.
 
From personal experience, both cars handle about the same to me assuming you are talking '07 Mustang vs '10 Camaro. Understeer should be less on the Mustang and more understeer on the Camaro so they are about even.
 
That's what I've been thinking based on professional reviews and such, but it's the exact opposite in GT5. Plus the fact the Mustang regularly outperforms the Camaro in the Continental series.

Also GT5 has the Camaro with a weight distribution favoring the rear, something like 48f 52r which is very uncommon for a FR car. Especially big V8 muscle cars.

Can someone find the actual weight distribution of the Camaro? I couldn't come up with anything from a short search earlier.
 
I saw the mentioned Mustang in pieces when they were designing the Camaro here in Australia. They had 3 complete Mustangs to measure, test and compare with. I would hope that they ended up with a better car.

I have found that the Camaro in GT5 is a good bet at 500-550pp. It might not always be the exact fastest, but is always fast.
 
The Mustang in the game is one made for the Japanese Market, it's extremely underpowered and has a 4 speed automatic gearbox(or is it 5?). It's been said many times PD added the wrong Mustang, and they did, stock, both the Camaro and Challenger(and the M3 if you want to count it) will embarrass the Mustang in top speed, acceleration, handling, and lap times. If PD added the new Mustang GT, then it would be a fair comparison, but at the moment your best bet is actually the 2005 standard model Mustang GT, apparently it's better.
 
LVracerGT
I'll have to try the standard one. But the premium one is listed as the GT.
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The standard is a GT as well, just two years older.
 
Yeah I thought you were saying the premium model wasn't a GT. Dont understand why they would put the Japanese version of the Mustang when all the other American cars are the US versions. Also don't understand why the newest model wasn't included when the game was released in late 2010...
 
Seems like you can do more to the suspension. It can be made handle well, even without ballast. For really stubborn understeer-ers, softening the front (ARB and/or springs and/or shocks) and/or tightening the rear can transform the car. Tuning the gears for a specific track/turn will help turn the nose that last little bit.

Camaro being favored over the Mustang is nothing new, but there is truth to the performance comparison in this case. A new Camaro would destroy an '05 GT on the track, stock for stock. The newer Mustangs stand a better chance.

As always, remember it's a video game. Don't take it personal that your car is slower than you think it should be. PD didn't model the handling characteristics for every last car.
 
I think this Debate should be postponed until a current generation Mustang is added to the game, the Mustang we have is fast yes.. but the New mustang vs Camaro is a much more intriguing topic.

2011 Mustang 2011 Camaro
HP: 412 HP: 426
TQ: 390 TQ: 420
0-60: 4.3 Seconds 0-60: 4.7 Seconds
1/4 Mile: 12.7 1/4 Mile: 13.0
Displacement: 5.0L Displacement: 6.2L

& I Believe that they are both Electronically Limited to 155 Miles Per hour as well.

The new Generation Mustang is quite a bit faster then the SS, the Boss 302 would be an awesome Installment to GT5.
 
mu22stang
Seems like you can do more to the suspension. It can be made handle well, even without ballast. For really stubborn understeer-ers, softening the front (ARB and/or springs and/or shocks) and/or tightening the rear can transform the car. Tuning the gears for a specific track/turn will help turn the nose that last little bit.

Camaro being favored over the Mustang is nothing new, but there is truth to the performance comparison in this case. A new Camaro would destroy an '05 GT on the track, stock for stock. The newer Mustangs stand a better chance.

As always, remember it's a video game. Don't take it personal that your car is slower than you think it should be. PD didn't model the handling characteristics for every last car.
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Trust me I did a lot of tuning to try to get the Mustang to handle well. I've been sim racing for over 5 years on everything from GTR2 rFactor iRacing etc and I know quite a bit about how to improve handling.

As for the new Camaro destroying the 05, stock for stock yes you are right. But with equal power the model in question is very competitive.

Watch a Continental race, there are a few teams that run the older model that are running up front with the new model, and the Camaro.

As far as your comment on PD not modeling every cars handling characteristics, then that goes against what they claim. Being the ultimate driving simulator. We all know that's not quite true, but it would baffle me if they made a premium car for the game and went "Eh, we're gonna skip this one"
 
Just thinking, there were a lot of shortcuts taken by PD on GT5. So I retract my previous statement :P
 
"Real driving simulator" means essentially nothing. Imagine all the cars as skins. They've come up with a physics engine using several variables (vehicle CG, engine CG, drivetrain, etc.) and applied these skins to improve the experience. Perhaps some cars they did more (track time comparisons to validate their simplified physics engine as an example) and probably others, they did less (plug in variables for car, trust the refined physics engine to provide a realistic experience.) Premium is an upgraded skin, not upgraded physics.

I'm not suggesting you don't know how to tune, that you don't know how to drive or that an '05 Mustang doesn't handle well in real life.

I'm stating the obvious. GT5 is a video game and it has limits - especially when compared to reality.
 
The mustang in GT5 is a automatic, just watch the driver in cockpit mode he never moves his hand. So even though you can shift it manually it still has the auto trans. If the new mustang was in GT5 it would give the SS some work.
 
It is my understanding from different reviews that on the street, the Camaro outperforms the Mustang. To get a Mustang with good power you have to get a Shelby and to get one with good handling you have to spend even more for one of the smaller tuning shops.

I assume in the Continental Tire series, they don't have street stock suspension, so all i can guess is, and no offense, you haven't gotten the Mustang tuned, yet.
 
I'm a huge fan boy for one of these two vehicles, so I will try my best to not be rude or start something dreadful.

I am rather disgusted that the new Mustang is not in it, as even the base model now is significantly better than that model there. It was seriously lacking (since it didn't have competition), but with the challenger and Camaro out, the 25k FR scene in the States has gotten way better.

AND, I don't really want the Leguna in there, as there isn't a Camaro to really compare to it. And the new GT500 and ZR1 are both great, but if they add the GT500, it's not fair to Camaro, and vice versa. And realistically, a 600+hp version of these is a bit pointless to me, I'd rather have the two themselves to fight it out.
 
The Camaro in GT5 is far too quick compared to what it should be. It should be faster than the '07 Mustang by a little bit. It should not be anywhere near as fast as the E92 M3. This is probably because of its unrealistic rear-biased weight distribution, among other things.


As for the '07 Mustang, PD screwed it up something awful. The weight distribution is so wildly incorrect that you can't make it what it is in real life even after fully lightening it and adding 200 kg of ballast to the rear of the car. PD also screwed up the fuel cutoff, which is a thousand RPM lower than it is on the Standard model.
 
MOTORTRENDmitch
It can pull .97G which is .05 better then the SS.. so I can say I like it as well
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.97? Who got that number? That sounded awfully high to me. The Mustang is very low tech when it comes to suspension. It was built not for performance, but for suburbs.

I did some Googling and Car and Driver only got .89.

p.s. For comparison, the Camaro was able to pull .92.
 
Toronado
The Camaro in GT5 is far too quick compared to what it should be. It should be faster than the '07 Mustang by a little bit. It should not be anywhere near as fast as the E92 M3. This is probably because of its unrealistic rear-biased weight distribution, among other things.


As for the '07 Mustang, PD screwed it up something awful. The weight distribution is so wildly incorrect that you can't make it what it is in real life even after fully lightening it and adding 200 kg of ballast to the rear of the car. PD also screwed up the fuel cutoff, which is a thousand RPM lower than it is on the Standard model.
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Jeezlouise I didn't know that.

What I did know though was that the Camaro handles way too well. You can actually feel the rear rotating round when you're in a typical mid-speed corner.
 
not sure if this is off topic, but i found the 2005 standard mustang to handle better, rev higher and obtains more HP.
 
Vol Jbolaz
.97? Who got that number? That sounded awfully high to me. The Mustang is very low tech when it comes to suspension. It was built not for performance, but for suburbs.

I did some Googling and Car and Driver only got .89.

p.s. For comparison, the Camaro was able to pull .92.
Click to expand...

Regarding your Mustang talk, what model year are you referring to? Because the Mustang has gone through some changes since 65.
 
Vol Jbolaz
The Mustang is very low tech when it comes to suspension. It was built not for performance, but for suburbs.

I did some Googling and Car and Driver only got .89.

p.s. For comparison, the Camaro was able to pull .92.
Click to expand...
Raw handling numbers don't tell the whole story. Most tests that compared the two found the Camaro to handle like a wet noodle, even though it was technically outhandling the Mustang. Same problem that always dogged the C5 Corvette, actually.



And the refreshed Mustang has basically the same suspension, and you'd have to look far and wide to find someone who thought the any Camaro could outhandle that.
 
Vol Jbolaz
It is my understanding from different reviews that on the street, the Camaro outperforms the Mustang. To get a Mustang with good power you have to get a Shelby and to get one with good handling you have to spend even more for one of the smaller tuning shops.

I assume in the Continental Tire series, they don't have street stock suspension, so all i can guess is, and no offense, you haven't gotten the Mustang tuned, yet.
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Not true with the current Mustang. It's only a few ponies shy of the Camaro, when comparing the GT and the SS. The Mustang's acceleration and 1/4 mile times are quicker, and the most current reviews I've seen are that the Mustang has more feel when cornering.

And you are correct about the Continental car not being stock suspension but then again neither is the Camaro. However, the Mustang still uses a live rear axle where the Camaro has an LSD and independent rear suspension.
 
Vol Jbolaz
The Mustang is very low tech when it comes to suspension. It was built not for performance, but for suburbs.
Click to expand...

Not sure where you got that. The Mustang suspension is old school tech but has been developed. And the way the car performs backs that up.

Any high number production performance car is going to have suspension setups that allow for some ride quality, including the Camaro. Which is a good thing otherwise we'd all be losing our teeth every time we hit a pot hole.
 
Does anyone have a stock, standard Mustang GT they would be willing to send me to test? I saw one in the UCD about a month ago but I'm sure I won't be able to get another one on my own anytime soon.
 
GT55YW
Regarding your Mustang talk, what model year are you referring to? Because the Mustang has gone through some changes since 65.
Click to expand...

Follow the links.

Toronado
Raw handling numbers don't tell the whole story. Most tests that compared the two found the Camaro to handle like a wet noodle, even though it was technically outhandling the Mustang. Same problem that always dogged the C5 Corvette, actually.

And the refreshed Mustang has basically the same suspension, and you'd have to look far and wide to find someone who thought the any Camaro could outhandle that.
Click to expand...

LVracerGT
Not true with the current Mustang. It's only a few ponies shy of the Camaro, when comparing the GT and the SS. The Mustang's acceleration and 1/4 mile times are quicker, and the most current reviews I've seen are that the Mustang has more feel when cornering.

And you are correct about the Continental car not being stock suspension but then again neither is the Camaro. However, the Mustang still uses a live rear axle where the Camaro has an LSD and independent rear suspension.
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I think I see the problem here. There appear to be several of you that are comparing either the 2012 Mustang or the car that you think the Mustang should have always been, with the piece of crap that the 2007 Mustang was. The 2007 Mustang is the Mustang we have in the game. The engine was weak, and it had a live rear axle. I'm sorry to all the Mustang fanbois, but it was crap.

The 2010 Camaro was three years newer, so it had the chance to learn from Ford's mistakes. Also, there are people who will buy and worship the Mustang even if it was crap. Ford didn't have to work hard to sell it. Besides, anyone truly interested in performance, would buy a Shelby (and at least get more power, but not a better suspension). GM needed to make the Camaro much much better before it would be take seriously. They didn't have the same rabid fanbase to float them.

The SS that we have in the game has more power per liter of displacement than the Mustang. Are those numbers incorrect? Can anyone verify that?

The SS that we have in the game has independent rear suspension standard. It may still handle like a muscle car, but it is in a completely different league than the Mustang.

And remember, I'm only talking about the V8 versions of the 2010 SS and the 2007 GT. I don't care that the 2012 GT might be a real car, that isn't what we have in the game.

I don't agree with the OP. The 2007 GT was crap, and it feels like it in the game.

p.s. I've been tee'd by LVracerGT's multiposting. LV, you can get one from the New Car Dealership. I am only talking about the premium models. As to ride quality versus performance, again.. see above. Live axle versus independent suspension.
 
You might as well just flip the table entirely, to be frank. For you to act as if the only reason people are disagreeing with you is personal bias is absurd.


The Camaro in the game is obviously too fast. There are several problems with the Mustang in the game that make it too slow. If pointing both of those things out is blind fanboyism to you, than I don't know what to tell you.
 
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