Ford Mustang Thread: 2011 General Talk

[buickgnx88]

I'd personally pick Jalopnik's option B: Euro-snob option. A smaller, lighter Mustang with IRS. One that would make sense with Ecoboost fours and a V6. But I give it similar chances... and it ain't snowing in hell yet.

You never know. This isn't Ford as we know it. This is Mulally-la-la-land... this is the Ford that finally approved the Fiesta for the US. Anything can happen.

With an IRS and a small-displacement Ecoboost model for overseas consumption, the Ford should be able to compete with the Genesis Coupe and 370Z in other markets.

Sounds almost like what they did with the Mustang II (minus the IRS).

 

[JCE]

It's a 10% increase in base price for a 33% increase in power. Totally worth it and still untouchable value.

Think of it this way: Ford is actually cutting prices. The V6 now performs similarly to the old GT for thousands less. And the GT now moves up a whole performance bracket with a minimal increase in price.


M

Brilliant post as always. +digirep

Out of curiosity Brad, what kind of price did the options go for on the previous GT?

$2,300 for navi., $2,500 for a California PKG, $1,700 for Brembos, & any other options sounds like it wouldn't be hard to start getting at $40K for a fully loaded Mustang which is right around where it costs for a fully loaded 2SS.

Working for Ford and selling them at the time of the California Special I can tell you the average selling price at our dealership was $35k for a GT non-vert. People buy extras, its sad really. I'd rather have a stripper with manual windows and locks then all that extra stuff.

I'm not the kind of person that would go for those things in the first place. I tend to worry about the basic MSRP, with perhaps only minimal add-ons. Back in the fall, they had a Daytona Blue 2010 GT on deck for just a hair over $28K with destination. Two option boxes were checked, the spoiler delete and the optional rear axle ratio. To me, that's a pretty obscene value, especially considering that it was probably the best car you could buy in the segment.

$28k is obscene value for an '10 GT. I'd rock the F out of that.

Motortrend, well, they're usually idiots. Jalopnik has picked up on that scent. According to the article, since Ford is looking to make everything global pretty soon, the Mustang may become an international vehicle sooner than later... That likely means the inclusion (finally!) of an IRS, EcoBoost engines, and a few other crazy ideas.


While I'm calling BS on the crazy stuff, the addition of the IRS seems reasonable. Especially when there is a fairly likely chance that the next Mustang could share its platform with the Falcon, and vice-versa. We'll see. Otherwise, like they point out, it may just be another evolution of the current car.

If the Mustang makes it across the pond into Europe I hope it has IRS and a small engine with a turbo or two. Europeans would eat it up if it wasn't too high in price.

 

[McLaren]

Does Ford do wheelin' and dealin' on the Mustang or is it purely a sticker price affair?

Yeah. It was called the GT500KR, & that's before what dealers wanted to tack on.

 

[niky]

Sounds almost like what they did with the Mustang II (minus the IRS).

Pinto what?

Kidding aside, I've always had a soft spot for that car. I like the styling better than the series that spawned the Mach1. There's one roaming around here in reasonably good condition (minimal rust)... someday I'll ask the owner what he wants for it.

 

[Jim Prower]

Oh, hell, here it comes: the GT350...

As expected, it didn't take long for Shelby to introduce its latest take on the new 2011 Ford Mustang GT that signals the return of a 5.0-liter V8 engine. The launch of the Shelby GT350 in concept form took place at the Barrett-Jackson Auction Opening Night Gala in Arizona and coincided with the 45th anniversary of the first 1965-1970 GT350 and first Shelby big block Cobra.

The Shelby GT350 will be a post title program meaning that a customer purchases a Mustang GT and then the car is shipped either by a Ford dealer or the buyer himself to Shelby's Las Vegas facility for conversion.

Once the car arrives at the factory, Shelby's team start working on the Mustang to turn it into a GT350. The package includes a Ford Racing supercharger that boosts the new 5.0 V8 to around 500 horsepower, a set of Baer Brakes and 19-inch Cragar alloys in Goodyear tires.

In addition, the GT's suspension is upgraded with new Ford Racing springs, struts, sway bars and adjustable caster/camber plates, as well as a sport exhaust system with center-exit tail pipes..

In terms of appearance, the car receives a new front fascia, tail light trim, front splitter, rear deck lid filler panel and rear fascia plus functional scoops on the side rockers and hood, and the necessary badges.

Inside, Shelby ads a plaque on the lower center console while the A pillar carries a fuel pressure, oil pressure and boost gauge for a "Fast and Furious" look (...).

Aside from the cost of the base Mustang GT, those interested will have to write a cheque for $33,995 to Shelby pushing the total price to somewhere around $62,000 to $65,000 (assuming that the 2011 Mustang GT will maintain the current model's pricing).

Source: http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-shelby-gt350-2011-mustang-gt-50-v8.html

Only a concept at this point. it had better be appreciably faster than the GT500 at that price...

 

[JCE]

The suspension and brake upgrades better let the car handle that much extra power. Otherwise I like it.

 

[The Outlaw]

It was already posted on the previous page.

 

[TheCracker]

I'd personally pick Jalopnik's option B: Euro-snob option. A smaller, lighter Mustang with IRS. One that would make sense with Ecoboost fours and a V6. But I give it similar chances... and it ain't snowing in hell yet.

You never know. This isn't Ford as we know it. This is Mulally-la-la-land... this is the Ford that finally approved the Fiesta for the US. Anything can happen.

With an IRS and a small-displacement Ecoboost model for overseas consumption, the Ford should be able to compete with the Genesis Coupe and 370Z in other markets.

And call it the Capri? The original one was essentially a Euro-sized version of the Mustang concept afterall.

 

[Bones Brigade]

No talk of this propaganda?

Pretty worthless, but it's cool to see and hear it in action.

 

[Jim Prower]

Seven Thousand RPM? THAT'S the Redline? On the base model?

That's...well, surprising. At least, from the standpoint that the previous car was for hairdressers...

 

[JCE]

Nice! And the new V6 Mustang makes an awsome noise! Especially with the now standard dual exhaust. Can't wait to drive one with a 6spd manual.

 

[Tornado]

Seven Thousand RPM? THAT'S the Redline? On the base model?

And the V8.

 

[niky]

Seven Thousand RPM? THAT'S the Redline? On the base model?

That's...well, surprising. At least, from the standpoint that the previous car was for hairdressers...

Because it sounded like a hairdryer at full blat?

I can believe 7k rpms... that 3.7 is a smooth engine, and it has a nice proper growl to it when you open it up (at least in its Mazda iterations)... it's a truly proper sportscar engine.

Anyone else see a 370Z-Genesis-Camaro four-way test coming up in one of the print rags in the near future?

 

[Omnis]

Because it sounded like a hairdryer at full blat?

I can believe 7k rpms... that 3.7 is a smooth engine, and it has a nice proper growl to it when you open it up (at least in its Mazda iterations)... it's a truly proper sportscar engine.

Anyone else see a 370Z-Genesis-Camaro four-way test coming up in one of the print rags in the near future?

Once they put in IRS and a non-lame interior, those others cars are toast.

 

[Bones Brigade]

Because it sounded like a hairdryer at full blat?

I can believe 7k rpms... that 3.7 is a smooth engine, and it has a nice proper growl to it when you open it up (at least in its Mazda iterations)... it's a truly proper sportscar engine.

Anyone else see a 370Z-Genesis-Camaro four-way test coming up in one of the print rags in the near future?

Don't go proposing this on my350z. People there seem to think that their Z's are still going to stomp this. They seem to think it will barely break into the 13s. Which, last time I checked, is not actually slower, but equal to and even faster than some Z's. An HR would be a good comparison, though.

But to be totally honest, that would be kind of a weird mash-up. I think the performance and price of all those cars varies way too much. One is a Mustang, one is a value-priced "luxury" sport coupe, one is a pure sports car, and the fourth is a 2 ton plasticy thing.

 

[YSSMAN]

While they may cater to separate tastes, they all bat from the same position: 300 BHP sports coupe, for less than $30,000 USD. All of them start on a pretty even keel, minus the 370Z lacking two rear seats. But, it would be a very interesting fight.

 

[niky]

That's the idea... 300 hp V6s... it's something that's easier to pitch as a fight than having a V8 Mustang and Camaro go up against a V6 370Z or G37 and a V6 Coupe.

It would be fun to compare.

(with full knowledge, of course, that people are going to be pissed about the winner, whichever the winner will be...)

 

[Bones Brigade]

While they may cater to separate tastes, they all bat from the same position: 300 BHP sports coupe, for less than $30,000 USD. All of them start on a pretty even keel, minus the 370Z lacking two rear seats. But, it would be a very interesting fight.

the z doesnt really count as being under 30k. plus, the ford and chevy are...a lot under 30k. but I get what youre saying. and yeah, rear drive, 300hp V6's would be pretty apples to apples. I guess I'm just more curious as to what the Mustang can do, as we already know what the others can do. And I'm not interested in some magazine mans opinion on driveability and cool factor.

 

[McLaren]

Once they put in IRS and a non-lame interior, those others cars are toast.

Agreed on the interior. And those little slits they threw in the grill are hideous. Would much prefer if that was a honeycomb-design.

 

[The Outlaw]

While they may cater to separate tastes, they all bat from the same position: 300 BHP sports coupe, for less than $30,000 USD. All of them start on a pretty even keel, minus the 370Z lacking two rear seats. But, it would be a very interesting fight.

That's the idea... 300 hp V6s... it's something that's easier to pitch as a fight than having a V8 Mustang and Camaro go up against a V6 370Z or G37 and a V6 Coupe.

It would be fun to compare.

(with full knowledge, of course, that people are going to be pissed about the winner, whichever the winner will be...)

What's the point? In reality the 370Z will crap on them all (better handling, performance, power to weight, interior, etc.), with a base price roughly $6-7k more (~ 20% more) than a V6 Mustang or LS Camaro. Such a shootout is just not realistic to most potential buyers, as they are simply in a different price point by a relatively large margin.

There's a reason why Ford makes the base GT, and Chevrolet the base SS Camaro for roughly the same price as a base 370Z.

 

[Omnis]

Agreed on the interior. And those little slits they threw in the grill are hideous. Would much prefer if that was a honeycomb-design.

It's sad because they have the leather and all that looking real fresh. It's just the dash that's awful. Hopefully they take some styling cues from the Focus and Fiesta. And giving the seats and extra 2 inches of rear travel wouldn't be bad either. If you're going to put the seat back to where someone isn't able to sit behind you, you might as well be able to touch the back of the front seat to the front of the rear seat.

 

[Bones Brigade]

What's the point? In reality the 370Z will crap on them all (better handling, performance, power to weight, interior, etc.), with a base price roughly $6-7k more (~ 20% more) than a V6 Mustang or LS Camaro. Such a shootout is just not realistic to most potential buyers, as they are simply in a different price point by a relatively large margin.

There's a reason why Ford makes the base GT, and Chevrolet the base SS Camaro for roughly the same price as a base 370Z.

This. I already know that the Z runs a second better 1/4 mile times than the Gen and Camaro. I know all the stupid numbers that don't really matter. And I don't care if MT says the Gen Coupe wins because it has a back seat and is quieter. I also know its performance advantage is to be expected because it's priced much higher.

 

[McLaren]

It's sad because they have the leather and all that looking real fresh. It's just the dash that's awful. Hopefully they take some styling cues from the Focus and Fiesta. And giving the seats and extra 2 inches of rear travel wouldn't be bad either. If you're going to put the seat back to where someone isn't able to sit behind you, you might as well be able to touch the back of the front seat to the front of the rear seat.

Can't agree more. When I saw the center console, it looked like the most boring thing I had ever seen from Ford.

Because of that, I really am hoping there's a Navi. option just so I would have something worthwhile to look at.

 

[JCE]

What's the point? In reality the 370Z will crap on them all (better handling, performance, power to weight, interior, etc.), with a base price roughly $6-7k more (~ 20% more) than a V6 Mustang or LS Camaro. Such a shootout is just not realistic to most potential buyers, as they are simply in a different price point by a relatively large margin.

There's a reason why Ford makes the base GT, and Chevrolet the base SS Camaro for roughly the same price as a base 370Z.

A portion of the buyers for any of these RWD V6 coupes will infact cross-shop the competition. And that is where the high MSRP of the Z will be its downfall. Great car, but not when relatively the same performance can be had for thousands less--with cheaper insurance too. Lower cost of ownership is important and the Z is very high.

This. I already know that the Z runs a second better 1/4 mile times than the Gen and Camaro. I know all the stupid numbers that don't really matter. And I don't care if MT says the Gen Coupe wins because it has a back seat and is quieter. I also know its performance advantage is to be expected because it's priced much higher.

The new Mustang with its V6 and light weight will in fact be much faster than the pig Camaro and probably the Genesis. It will be the best match up for the Z--and Z owners better watch out because at the lights a normal driver versus normal driver the Mustang will run with the Z. I think you two and others are going to dismiss the Mustang--because it is in fact a Mustang and not a "tuner" car, not a Japanese car or have brand "snobbery" for Nissan versus Ford because Ford is American.

 

[Tornado]

It does have to be said, though, that while this new V6 would make fantastic competition for the 350z and Genesis Coupe, it probably won't be a patch on the 370z.

 

[The Outlaw]

A portion of the buyers for any of these RWD V6 coupes will infact cross-shop the competition. And that is where the high MSRP of the Z will be its downfall. Great car, but not when relatively the same performance can be had for thousands less--with cheaper insurance too. Lower cost of ownership is important and the Z is very high.

The problem is, it won't have relatively the same performance on the whole...maybe straight line, but not in the other areas of performance, precisions and refinement. Good luck trying to keep up with a 370Z on a circuit driving a V6 Mustang. Then you will see why the V8 GT is much more comparable to the Z in terms of OVERALL performance, and why they are roughly the same price.

It's simply a case of more car for more money - you get what you pay for.

The new Mustang with its V6 and light weight will in fact be much faster than the pig Camaro and probably the Genesis. It will be the best match up for the Z--and Z owners better watch out because at the lights a normal driver versus normal driver the Mustang will run with the Z. I think you two and others are going to dismiss the Mustang--because it is in fact a Mustang and not a "tuner" car, not a Japanese car or have brand "snobbery" for Nissan versus Ford because Ford is American.

I currently own a 07 Mustang GT myself, and have owned a 05 350Z as well...no bias here. Just realistic views from someone who realizes the difference between a $23k car and $30k car, beyond the power to weight ratio and straight line performance figures.

 

[Tornado]

It would probably be fairly easy to keep up on a track with a 370Z in a Mustang V6 once the brakes stop working on the Z-Car and you crash into a wall.

 

[Bones Brigade]

I think you two and others are going to dismiss the Mustang--because it is in fact a Mustang and not a "tuner" car, not a Japanese car or have brand "snobbery" for Nissan versus Ford because Ford is American.

I'm not dismissing the Mustang...? Didn't you read my other post about how ridiculous Z owners are being? I drive a Ford (era Volvo.) Ford is actually one of my favorite manufacturers. I lusted after the SVT Contour when I was a kid. (I must of been abused.) If I made enough money I'd go to a Ford dealer right now and plop some money down for a Fusion Hybrid, or wait for a Fiesta. (Both for my fiance, but still because I like them, and she hates her Camry.) I think the new Mustang is way better looking than most people. I would kill for a Termi. And you can better believe I am longingly awaiting the day when I can find a used 5.0 for 25k. And I totally agree it will be WAY closer to the Z than the others. But my guess is, it will still be a few grand short in performance terms. It's going to be a bargain, no doubt about it. Maybe even a better bargain than the Z, dollar for dollar, in the same way a 200lb guy who benches 250 isn't as strong pound for pound as the 160 pound guy benching 225 - if that makes sense at all.

I love the new 'Stang. I've defended it multiple times on other car forums. But all I'm saying is that I don't expect mid 13s etc. And that's all okay, because the price is way less. So my guess is it would come down to "oh blah blah, American heritage, gotta have it" reporting, which is silly. And so is comparing numbers. Because then we're just bench racing, which is also silly.

Like I said, it would be cool to see the two loosely compared. I never said the whole thing was RIDICULOUS. I said it was weird. Weird isn't always bad. But at least don't bring the other 2.

 

[JCE]

The problem is, it won't have relatively the same performance on the whole...maybe straight line, but not in the other areas of performance, precisions and refinement. Good luck trying to keep up with a 370Z on a circuit driving a V6 Mustang. Then you will see why the V8 GT is much more comparable to the Z in terms of OVERALL performance, and why they are roughly the same price.

It's simply a case of more car for more money - you get what you pay for.




I currently own a 07 Mustang GT myself, and have owned a 05 350Z as well...no bias here. Just realistic views from someone who realizes the difference between a $23k car and $30k car, beyond the power to weight ratio and straight line performance figures.

The V6 Mustang with a 6spd and the track pack option would easily keep up with the Z. Maybe it won't win or maybe it will but it most certainly will keep up with it. The Mustang is a proven good handler, yes so is the Z but the Mustang isn't any slouch and the new one is certainly going to shock some people.

It would probably be fairly easy to keep up on a track with a 370Z in a Mustang V6 once the brakes stop working on the Z-Car and you crash into a wall.

I'm not dismissing the Mustang...? Didn't you read my other post about how ridiculous Z owners are being? I drive a Ford (era Volvo.) Ford is actually one of my favorite manufacturers. I lusted after the SVT Contour when I was a kid. (I must of been abused.) If I made enough money I'd go to a Ford dealer right now and plop some money down for a Fusion Hybrid, or wait for a Fiesta. (Both for my fiance, but still because I like them, and she hates her Camry.) I think the new Mustang is way better looking than most people. I would kill for a Termi. And you can better believe I am longingly awaiting the day when I can find a used 5.0 for 25k. And I totally agree it will be WAY closer to the Z than the others. But my guess is, it will still be a few grand short in performance terms. It's going to be a bargain, no doubt about it. Maybe even a better bargain than the Z, dollar for dollar, in the same way a 200lb guy who benches 250 isn't as strong pound for pound as the 160 pound guy benching 225 - if that makes sense at all.

I love the new 'Stang. I've defended it multiple times on other car forums. But all I'm saying is that I don't expect mid 13s etc. And that's all okay, because the price is way less. So my guess is it would come down to "oh blah blah, American heritage, gotta have it" reporting, which is silly. And so is comparing numbers. Because then we're just bench racing, which is also silly.

Like I said, it would be cool to see the two loosely compared. I never said the whole thing was RIDICULOUS. I said it was weird. Weird isn't always bad. But at least don't bring the other 2.

I see, thanks for the clarification. And don't tell anyone but I lusted over an SVT Contour as well. And the SVT Focus--thankfully I own the latter. Next on my list is the Terminator.

 

[YSSMAN]

Like I said, it would be cool to see the two loosely compared. I never said the whole thing was RIDICULOUS. I said it was weird. Weird isn't always bad. But at least don't bring the other 2.

Its not weird - Its logical. People will be looking for 300 BHP coupes, and those are pretty much the only realistic choices in the segment in terms of cash. Ford does offer a Performance Package (Pony Pack?) on the V6 that adds a shorter rear axle, a GT-spec suspension, high performance Perelli tires, and other go-fast goodies. I've only seen one on the dealer lots so far, but there wasn't anything in the window for me to check out. It isn't as though the RS-spec Camaro LT V6 is a slouch either. So, while neither are exactly sports cars like the 370Z are... They have comparable trim levels to the basic Nissan.

That is, if you want to compare $30K-ish 300 BHP sport coupes.