Formula 1 in GT6

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Project CARS has an overall budget less than 3 million Euros. If they can afford to license the BMW 08 F1 car and 3 classic Lotus F1 cars there is no reason PD can't afford to. Simraceway also has a huge lineup of old McLaren F1 cars.

Current F1 cars, no. Older cars, yes.
 
SimonK
Project CARS has an overall budget less than 3 million Euros. If they can afford to license the BMW 08 F1 car and 3 classic Lotus F1 cars there is no reason PD can't afford to. Simraceway also has a huge lineup of old McLaren F1 cars.

Current F1 cars, no. Older cars, yes.

So I guess Kaz/PD are lying to us.. :confused:
 
Ok, sure. All I can say though is there Is no doubt whatsoever PD can afford to license some old F1 cars.
 
They can certainly acquire rights to older cars. If Project CARS on a budget less than 3 million euros can afford to license the 2008 BMW F1 car then PD certainly can as well.

Yes, but you are assuming that the licensing cost will be the same for PD as it is for the developers of Project cars. Most likely, it is not, PD likely have to pay more as GT reaches a wider audience. Even if it's a deal on a % per unit sold, you have to consider that Gran Turismo has significantly more content and so the price of the game would have to rise to accomodate the cars in the game, as they will have many other similar licenses in place. That may not be an option for PD as Sony are probably strict on the pricepoint of the game, to stay competitive with Forza on the Xbox 360 (They wouldn't want GT to be £10 more on release, it could deter potential buyers). But other games with less cars in the game don't need to do this, so they have less restrictions on making license deals.

It isn't an option. Codemasters holds the gaming rights, which means F1 can't appear in GT6. There's nothing PD or Sony could do about that.

The price doesn't matter since Codemasters already holds the license

Codemasters may hold the rights but with their permission, PD/Sony could buy out the licensing contract they have. But there are two problems with this; a) Codemasters are unlikely to relinquish the exclusive license and b) Formula One Management would likely want an extra fee as i'm guessing the current license isn't directly transferrable.

In short, PD/Sony could get the license deal, but it would be very expensive. For reasons listed above, they almost certainly can't afford to license F1 without pushing up the price of the game significantly.

Does no one understand that these cars you're suggesting aren't a possibility because of licensing? PD Has to make originals, or we won't get them...

FOM only holds the rights for the cars from the current season and the season preceding it. Any car from 2010 or earlier is currently fair game for any developer providing they get the license from the team (Or the holder of the rights for the car).

Well as we have Renault sport and Ferrari and McLaren and Merc. We could have a grid of those.

👍 Further licensing talks would have to take place to get the F1 cars in the game, but it is a real possibility. But as I stated in my previous post, there could be licensing issues concerning the cars racing eachother.

You still don't get it do you? ALL F1 cars and their designs are protected by licensing imposed by FOM (Formula one management, Ferrari is exempt to this, hence the F10 & F2007 in GT5).

Kaz said that PD wanted to put more F1 cars in GT5, but the licensing prices are unreasonably high. I don't know how many times I have to say this and how many threads I need to post it on before people understand that officially licensed F1 cars (other the Ferrari) aren't going to be in GT franchise anytime soon (unless Bernie Ecclestone dies. Even then, still a scarce possibility)

No, FOM only hold the rights for cars from the current and previous seasons. Yes, Ferrari are exempt, but the likes of Williams, BMW and Mclaren have all licensed cars for other games.

In reference to my previous post, I am curious. Can anybody think of a game out at the moment which allows the racing of official F1 cars against AI opponents? (With the obvious exception of officially licensed F1 games). Even GT5 did not include an event for the cars to race eachother, despite having them in the game. But games like iRacing, Simraceway etc. allow online racing between the cars.
 
Sure the Ferrari F1 cars and the FGT are good, But a larger variety of open-wheel cars would be awesome. I don't really care if the cars have to be fictional, I just want a larger variety.

What I really want to see return, even if they become standard, are the F1 cars from GT3, since they were good representations of 80s and early 90s F1 cars, even if they were somewhat fictional. Although, i think the Polyphony 001/002 from the PAL version would be easier to put in, since the ones in the NTSC version were tributes to real life cars
 
All licenses in recent Formula 1 except for Ferrari are Uncle Bernie's property. Maybe they could get Toyota or BMW in, but not McLaren or Red Bull for example.
 
All licenses in recent Formula 1 except for Ferrari are Uncle Bernie's property. Maybe they could get Toyota or BMW in, but not McLaren or Red Bull for example.

They could get cars from 2010 to line up alongside the F10 such as the Red Bull/RB6, Mclaren/MP4-25 etc. (FOM licenses only cover 2 seasons of cars; the start of a season beginning immediately after the last race of the previous) But without getting the F1 license, are they allowed to race against eachother in a series, even if it isn't under the F1 name? I don't think so, hence the exclusion of the F10 and F2007 from the GT5 Formula GT championship, or any other series for that matter. That is the complication that they must overcome.

Having GT original cars, based on classic F1 cars (Like in GT3) would be good. I'm quite surprised that those cars were allowed in the first place, because they were modelled on real F1 cars, but just renamed and re-skinned later on due to licensing issues. I question why they weren't included in GT4; I suspect they came across a legal obstacle or threat. It should also be noted that the European/PAL version of GT3, the home region for Formula 1, did not include all of the F1 cars (F094/s etc.), it only included the Polyphony 001 and 002. The reason behind this is likely to have been license based.

The Formula GT is different to the others because it is not modelled on any F1 car. I think if real F1 cars aren't possible, we should at least get a selection of original cars like these.
 
All licenses in recent Formula 1 except for Ferrari are Uncle Bernie's property. Maybe they could get Toyota or BMW in, but not McLaren or Red Bull for example.

GT5 already has redbull but just not on an F1 car. A few Audi's and an X1
 
They could get cars from 2010 to line up alongside the F10 such as the Red Bull/RB6, Mclaren/MP4-25 etc. (FOM licenses only cover 2 seasons of cars; the start of a season beginning immediately after the last race of the previous) But without getting the F1 license, are they allowed to race against eachother in a series, even if it isn't under the F1 name? I don't think so, hence the exclusion of the F10 and F2007 from the GT5 Formula GT championship, or any other series for that matter. That is the complication that they must overcome.

Having GT original cars, based on classic F1 cars (Like in GT3) would be good. I'm quite surprised that those cars were allowed in the first place, because they were modelled on real F1 cars, but just renamed and re-skinned later on due to licensing issues. I question why they weren't included in GT4; I suspect they came across a legal obstacle or threat. It should also be noted that the European/PAL version of GT3, the home region for Formula 1, did not include all of the F1 cars (F094/s etc.), it only included the Polyphony 001 and 002. The reason behind this is likely to have been license based.

The Formula GT is different to the others because it is not modelled on any F1 car. I think if real F1 cars aren't possible, we should at least get a selection of original cars like these.

I was wondering why they weren't featured in GT4 either.
 
Yes, but you are assuming that the licensing cost will be the same for PD as it is for the developers of Project cars. Most likely, it is not, PD likely have to pay more as GT reaches a wider audience.

What evidence are you basing this theory on? Because it sounds like you're just making something up to me. Why would for example the Classic Team Lotus rights owners charge PD more for a license when as you say the game will reach a bigger audience? Why risk PD saying "that's too much" and not having them featured at all? If anything they would be charged less because they stand to get much better promotion from GT than CARS which is not going to sell 5+ million copies.

All licenses in recent Formula 1 except for Ferrari are Uncle Bernie's property. Maybe they could get Toyota or BMW in, but not McLaren or Red Bull for example.

https://www.simraceway.com/cars/mclaren_racing-mp4-27-2012?locale=en
https://www.simraceway.com/cars/mclaren_racing-f1_mp4-26-2011?locale=en
https://www.simraceway.com/cars/mclaren_racing-f1_mp4-25-2010?locale=en
 
What evidence are you basing this theory on? Because it sounds like you're just making something up to me. Why would for example the Classic Team Lotus rights owners charge PD more for a license when as you say the game will reach a bigger audience? Why risk PD saying "that's too much" and not having them featured at all? If anything they would be charged less because they stand to get much better promotion from GT than CARS which is not going to sell 5+ million copies.



https://www.simraceway.com/cars/mclaren_racing-mp4-27-2012?locale=en
https://www.simraceway.com/cars/mclaren_racing-f1_mp4-26-2011?locale=en
https://www.simraceway.com/cars/mclaren_racing-f1_mp4-25-2010?locale=en
👍
 
What evidence are you basing this theory on? Because it sounds like you're just making something up to me. Why would for example the Classic Team Lotus rights owners charge PD more for a license when as you say the game will reach a bigger audience? Why risk PD saying "that's too much" and not having them featured at all? If anything they would be charged less because they stand to get much better promotion from GT than CARS which is not going to sell 5+ million copies.

Well, i'm not familiar with the precise details on licensing deals. I'm speculating when saying that they would charge PD more. On a per unit basis you would expect PD to pay less, but in total they would be paying more as they sell more copies of the game. I just didn't make myself clear.

One thing I am sure of is the current and previous year rights that FOM have over the cars (If you want a source I will try and find it, but keep in mind it's buried deep in the GT5 section from ~2009). WHich then raises the question why we see no games out there which have AI grids of classic F1 cars racing against the player, when the cars should be easier to license as they aren't subject to FOM exclusive deals.

I was wondering why they weren't featured in GT4 either.

We can only speculate as to why, but I suspect it was license related.
 
Project CARS already has AI grids of licensed classic F1 cars and will in the final game. I'm sure there are others.

Simraceway also has the 2012 and 2011 McLaren as posted earlier, so what does that do to your latter theory?
 
Project CARS already has AI grids of licensed classic F1 cars and will in the final game. I'm sure there are others.

Simraceway also has the 2012 and 2011 McLaren as posted earlier, so what does that do to your latter theory?

Project CARS hasn't been released yet. Simraceway is online only. I can't think of any currently released game which has F1 cars driven by the AI racing against other F1 cars (Including the player).

The current concorde agreement has not been made public, so we know very little about the licensing implications involved with classis F1 cars. A new concorde agreement is being made for the 2013 season. Maybe the makers of Project CARS know something that we don't?

I'm also looking for the original source for that current and previous year licensing. It might've been a video interview or something, which would explain my difficulty in finding it. I'll keep looking.
 
Project CARS hasn't been released yet. Simraceway is online only. I can't think of any currently released game which has F1 cars driven by the AI racing against other F1 cars (Including the player).

True CARS is not released yet but there is no reason they're going to change things and not allow you to take part in races against the AI with the Lotus F1 cars. Plus what about games like GP Legends?

As for the cars in Simraceway well that was just more going against your theory that current and last seasons cars can't be licenesed, that shows that they can.


The current concorde agreement has not been made public, so we know very little about the licensing implications involved with classis F1 cars. A new concorde agreement is being made for the 2013 season. Maybe the makers of Project CARS know something that we don't?

As far as I know the license it with Classic Team Lotus only, the FIA have nothing to do with them getting that license and being allowed to race them. The 2008 BMW F1 will be interesting when that's added, what it races against.

I'm also looking for the original source for that current and previous year licensing. It might've been a video interview or something, which would explain my difficulty in finding it. I'll keep looking.

Ok no problem, as I say though the current McLaren being in Simraceway seems to suggest something has changed or McLaren has got a special pass like Ferrari have.

Simon... Why do you think everything you say is correct and other people car not? ALWAYS!?

I don't, I'm perfectly happy to admit I'm wrong when I am.
 
Problem with Lotus classics is getting PD to the states to model them (those are spread all over there), after getting authorization from their respective owners. Classic Ferrari F1 cars are easier but not as sexy, and formula bmw is a trite idea.
 
Problem with Lotus classics is getting PD to the states to model them (those are spread all over there), after getting authorization from their respective owners. Classic Ferrari F1 cars are easier but not as sexy, and formula bmw is a trite idea.

Hate to keep mentioning it but pCARS managed just fine, as did Kunos making Assetto Corso.
 
Besides Ferrari, I don't think there's any chance of seeing modern F1 cars in GT6. Not even the older ones.
 
As for the cars in Simraceway well that was just more going against your theory that current and last seasons cars can't be licenesed, that shows that they can.

As far as I know the license it with Classic Team Lotus only, the FIA have nothing to do with them getting that license and being allowed to race them. The 2008 BMW F1 will be interesting when that's added, what it races against.

Ok no problem, as I say though the current McLaren being in Simraceway seems to suggest something has changed or McLaren has got a special pass like Ferrari have.

I wasn't aware that the 2012 car was in Simraceway. I know Mclaren kicked up a fuss because of preferential treatment towards Ferrari, but that's all I know. I'm beginning to doubt whether that two year rule is even true now.

I don't, I'm perfectly happy to admit I'm wrong when I am.

As am I. I was wrong. Looking for the source of that two year license rule, my source seems to be from a string of posts, originating from an assumption made on another site about the Williams FW31 being released after the end of the 2010 season.

Now that I think about it, the common conception that Ferrari have a special deal which allows them to keep the rights for their cars (Which implies that the other teams were bound by agreements with FOM) could be unfounded too. The secretive nature of the license deals and the concorde agreement between the teams and FOM (Which could well have a section of video game licensing) means a lot of what I thought I knew, is just speculation from other sources (Even if there is some truth or coincidence in some of it).

But that doesn't explain why we haven't seen any mainstream games before the last 3-4 years that have had a range of F1 cars. It also doesn't explain why PD modelled several F1 cars for GT3 and then proceeded to rename and re-livery them. I'm really confused right now.
 
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