fortbo's Audi A6 4.2 Quattro

  • Thread starter fortbo
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fortbo
Well, the issue is that my car is better than an s6 at the moment, so I would be doing a bit of a downgrade.
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Which process would benefit you more in the long run? The power boost or the manual swap?

In my area, it'd be the power boost.
 
Obelisk
Which process would benefit you more in the long run? The power boost or the manual swap?

In my area, it'd be the power boost.
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That's what I am leaning towards, but I'm still considering the manual because I could first work on using the 320 horsepower that I have right now, and then upgrade to the TT. It's a tough decision though...
 
fortbo
That's what I am leaning towards, but I'm still considering the manual because I could first work on using the 320 horsepower that I have right now, and then upgrade to the TT. It's a tough decision though...
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You should also consider:

  • Cost (Parts, labor, etc)
  • Reliability (Botched manual can go awry, turbos can fail)
  • Environment (City = bad for stick)
  • How it influences car behavior/weight. Turbos add weight, and IIRC manuals are lighter than autos by a pound or two.
 
Obelisk
You should also consider:

  • Cost (Parts, labor, etc)
  • Reliability (Botched manual can go awry, turbos can fail)
  • Environment (City = bad for stick)
  • How it influences car behavior/weight. Turbos add weight, and IIRC manuals are lighter than autos by a pound or two.
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Me and my dad are planning on doing most of it ourselves with the help of some friends. My dad built a lot of fast cars over the years with the business we own. The thing that keeps making me turn towards the manual is that I would be able to get more power out of the turbos without destroying the stock transmission.
 
fortbo
Me and my dad are planning on doing most of it ourselves with the help of some friends. My dad built a lot of fast cars over the years with the business we own. The thing that keeps making me turn towards the manual is that I would be able to get more power out of the turbos without destroying the stock transmission.
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Let me ask a question, then. Do you know what your Tiptronic can take for torque?

I.E. my Impala's humble 4 speed can take 400 ft-lbs of torque at its very limit.
 
Obelisk
Let me ask a question, then. Do you know what your Tiptronic can take for torque?

I.E. my Impala's humble 4 speed can take 400 ft-lbs of torque at its very limit.
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Can't tell you off the top of my head, but I know that they are not the strongest.
 
fortbo
Well, the issue is that my car is better than an s6
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image.jpeg
 
fortbo
View attachment 550038 What do you guys think of something like this?

Edit: @Obelisk, don't you ever use the word ricer in the direction of my car ever again.:grumpy::grumpy::grumpy::grumpy:

:lol:
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Wraps and paint schemes are rarely interchangeable. It's hard to justify applying a design when the assumption for the design is gathered from looking at an entirely different car. Do some sketches, or create a vector image in Photoshop and play around, that way you can get an entire outlook as to what it will look like, and if it suits your car's body lines. Your previous design simply didn't work because it contrasted against the lines that are actually on the body, which then gives a visual mess.

The design pictured slopes downwards, therefore making the designs present in conjunction to the actual lines. However, your A6 does not have that body line crease gradient - it's a more flat design, therefore would not particularly work well and most likely clash.


fortbo
So I'm debating on either doing twin turbos this fall/winter or a full manual conversion which would help me use the power that I already have more effectively. Doing twin turbos would cost more but would give me much more power but it would still have to go through the Tiptronic shifting system. What do you guys think I should do?
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A twin turbo setup would require the car to be entirely retuned, or most likely a brand new engine management system since the ECU currently installed does not have the networking provided for turbo charging at all. Internals may need replacing with stronger, forged items with the additional pressure caused by the new boost. This may however not be the case as it can vary between engine to engine, as I know for a fact the NA Roadster engines can take a larger amount of boost. That then leaves the problem of things like differentials, drive-shafts, and the transmission - you say that the tip tronic does not respond well to power which can lead to a lot of problems if you get carried away at an autocross on a launch.

The transmission could require a manual transmission A6 ECU, mainly due to the different start up requirements and things like that. I have no idea on the compatibility with the swap - but there is the potential for a decrease in performance compared to a factory manual due to differing specifications between the two. From knowledge I can say that the third generation Legacy has a 20 hp different between the two transmissions, with the automatic producing 260hp and the manual providing 280hp. While this can obviously not apply if this is not the case with your Audi, that is definitely something to consider.

fortbo
Well, the issue is that my car is better than an s6 at the moment, so I would be doing a bit of a downgrade.
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To be honest, I think you would be more financially well off and safer to revert your A6 to stock and buy a manual A6 and simply apply your modifications to it. That way you do not run the risk of wiring incompatibilities, errors or mistakes or anything of the sort.
 
fortbo
That's what I am leaning towards, but I'm still considering the manual because I could first work on using the 320 horsepower that I have right now, and then upgrade to the TT. It's a tough decision though...
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320 hp? Have you dyno'd it? What have you done to get an increase of 20 hp besides half an exhaust system?

You wouldn't be downgrading at all since the S6 had around 330 while the RS6 and RS6+ had around 440, and 470, respectively.

The manual gearboxes were available for cars that had smaller engines so you could push out as much as you could, say from a 2.0L I4.

So I doubt those A6 manuals would be of any use to you.

Adding a turbo on stock internals is a dangerous move. Twin turbos, no less.. I mean the RS6 and S6 had turbos but upgraded internals.

Honestly, save your money and build up another Audi. Keep the A6 stock, or keep the exbaust system.

I'm thinking of buying one of the newer engines and placing it in a D2 A8L. Make a nice cruiser with some power. Or mess around with my D3.
 
Couldn't you put the coilovers into an S6? I don't see why the mounts should be any different. Tyres would probably be a different size but tha could be addressed later.
 
INEEDNAWZZZ
Couldn't you put the coilovers into an S6? I don't see why the mounts should be any different. Tyres would probably be a different size but tha could be addressed later.
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I could, but I would not have any suspension for the A6 to sell it with. The stock suspension was not worth keeping with the condition that it was in. However, why would I want to do all of that just to get a little more horsepower and a slightly better 0-60. Mine right now is 6 seconds flat. I've also got essentially the same engine as the S6 right now with the S6 having a different intake manifold and a different tune. The point is, it would not be worth it to sell this car and get a S6.
 
Plus the S6 was available as a manual so doing a manual swap would be easier with regards to the ECU.
 
Cale
Plus the S6 was available as a manual so doing a manual swap would be easier with regards to the ECU.
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It actually didn't come with a manual. But I'm leaning towards just doing the swap with mine.
 
Have you done much research into how the swap is carried out? If this write up is anything to go by, it requires an ECU recoding, not to mention a sizable parts list of parts, including an entire downpipe. To me this all screams an extensive bill, and a lot more work than what you're currently suggesting.
 
SVX
Have you done much research into how the swap is carried out? If this write up is anything to go by, it requires an ECU recoding, not to mention a sizable parts list of parts, including an entire downpipe. To me this all screams an extensive bill, and a lot more work than what you're currently suggesting.
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Yeah, so do you think it would be better just to get an S4?
 
Get an S4 2.7T. And don't do crazy mods with it. I would just swap the LSD with one from Porsche, Injectors of the RS4, suspension and call it a day. It would be a very track worthy car.
 
Ibonibo
Get an S4 2.7T. And don't do crazy mods with it. I would just swap the LSD with one from Porsche, Injectors of the RS4, suspension and call it a day. It would be a very track worthy car.
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Don't those usually have issues with the turbos though? I was looking more into the S4 with the V8.
 
fortbo
Don't those usually have issues with the turbos though? I was looking more into the S4 with the V8.
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Well yes and no.

As with all turbo cars, it heavily depends on how the previous owner maintained the car, if he let it warm up properly and cool down....

V6 vs V8: The V8, no mattter the generation or car they were put into are chronicly underpowered to the advertised power. I have seen a lot of those 4.2 not reaching their advertised power, ranging from S6, rs4 and r8....

The v8 (alu) vs v6 (iron) have +- the same weight but if I remember correctly the v6 sits a bit better on the front axle, giving a bit less of understeer.

Especially this is important for you: V8 if you want an N/A and leave it stock. V6Bi-turbo if you might mod it.

The 2.7 has less power stock. But a simple flash of the ECU brings it very close to the advertised power of the V8. And in reality probably exceeding it.
The V6 is more tuner friendly. A flash, Dp, sport cats, an upgraded Turbos, you go north of 350hp without a huge turbo lag. And the limit for those blocks are very very high, and some parts of the rs4/6 can be taken (MAF's, injectors, coil packs,...)

I think if you google a bit on the usual audi/vag forums you will find a lot of information about it.
 
Ibonibo
Well yes and no.

As with all turbo cars, it heavily depends on how the previous owner maintained the car, if he let it warm up properly and cool down....

V6 vs V8: The V8, no mattter the generation or car they were put into are chronicly underpowered to the advertised power. I have seen a lot of those 4.2 not reaching their advertised power, ranging from S6, rs4 and r8....

The v8 (alu) vs v6 (iron) have +- the same weight but if I remember correctly the v6 sits a bit better on the front axle, giving a bit less of understeer.

Especially this is important for you: V8 if you want an N/A and leave it stock. V6Bi-turbo if you might mod it.

The 2.7 has less power stock. But a simple flash of the ECU brings it very close to the advertised power of the V8. And in reality probably exceeding it.
The V6 is more tuner friendly. A flash, Dp, sport cats, an upgraded Turbos, you go north of 350hp without a huge turbo lag. And the limit for those blocks are very very high, and some parts of the rs4/6 can be taken (MAF's, injectors, coil packs,...)

I think if you google a bit on the usual audi/vag forums you will find a lot of information about it.
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I'll be sure to do that! Ive always like the idea of the TT V6 better anyway.
 
fortbo
So I'm debating on either doing twin turbos this fall/winter or a full manual conversion which would help me use the power that I already have more effectively. Doing twin turbos would cost more but would give me much more power but it would still have to go through the Tiptronic shifting system. What do you guys think I should do?
Click to expand...
You've already answered your own question.

If a manual is going to make more use of the power you currently have, why would you look to add more to the current transmission....
 
fortbo
I'm pretty undecisive right now, the S4 would be nice, but it seems like the manual with my car might be a better option at the moment.
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How so?
 
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SVX
How?
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I talked to a guy with a manual A6 4.2 and he's running around a 4.7 0-60. Then I would be able to continue the planned mods I have for this car and I won't have to start over with an entirely new car. I'm also not to keen on not having coilovers anymore. I really like the design of my car better than the S4 too.
 
  1. Well, finally got the Audi back with the new H&R sway bars and a new steering rack. I wasn't expecting the new bars to make that much of a difference in the handling since I already have a good set of coilovers on it. However, I was very wrong. The entire chassis feels stiffer and the car itself feels much lighter and even more nimble than what it was. It feels very balanced now even to the point of possibly getting some oversteer out of this front heavy pig. I took it to a car meet last night. This is a picture of it after the meet getting some food on the way home.
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    These are from this morning. Sadly, it had to stay out in the rain because the Firebird has a slight leak.
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    image-jpeg.566014


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    Finally, and up close shot of one of the new sway bars.
    image-jpeg.566020

    Posted in the pics thread originally, but I figured I would keep this thread updated.
 

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