Forza 4 Demo Thread

[Fredde_swe]

It sure did affect it. We had endless online tournaments with our team. Many of us would actually pit at least twice to change tires in 25 lappers.

You must not be running on them hard enough.

Like I said, I did a 30 min burnout, isn't that enough

 

[Bogie 19th]

Odd that he would show up like that. Anytime I just "touch" the wall, another car or go off the track my lap gets invalidated, and doesn't appear on the leaderboard, hence no ghost.

Like I said, I did a 30 min burnout, isn't that enough

Not sure what to tell ya

 

[NA]

Yah, and I haven't seen anything like that since. Makes me think turn 10 was very liberal with some basic "get you started" opponents, just to get the ball rolling.

 

[Luminis]

Dang, this thread is moving ast

I found that they are pretty fast (or at least the guy in first) if you put it on professional (or whatever the hardest setting is).

Yeah, I've set them to the hardest difficulty possible, but it's still prretty easy to get ~1 second faster a lap than the guy in first, and that's whith traffic slowing me down.

I'm not yet completely used to the physics, the car (Mercury Cougar Eliminator, in this case), nor do i know the track inside out. Yet, I'm capable to go from 11th place to second in just two laps and beat the top guy's lap time in the process... And I'm not a very fast driver.

Don't get me wrong, that's perfectly fine for a two-lap race, as it'd be challenging to take a win there, very challenging, to be honest. However, I'm a bit concerned what's going to happen when I've got a third, fourth or even fifth round to go, when I'm this close to taking the lead after just two with lots of traffic...

Same goes for not starting in the back. If I started in, say, fifth place, I'd catch that guy in front with ease in those two laps.

For the demo setup, it's fine, but I'm a bit worried about actual races... And that's coming from someone who's far, far, far away from being an alien

The fact you can get a car out of shape using sim steering on a pad and having it get away from you is a very nice change for us pad users. It feels so good on a pad that I really don't see any point in investing in a wheel.

Same problem I'm facing right now. On the one hand, a friend of mine is using his GT2 and Clubsport pedals for FM4 and I'm jealous of that, quite a bit... And I do want the CTR badly. However, there's Diablo III on the horizon and, as you said, the game is plenty fun with just a pad.

I'm trying to work out if it's worth the £700+ investment for a 360, the game, wheel and pedals. I can't think of another game I'm remotely interested in on xbox and I don't think this one gets close to justifying the investment?

No game is worth that, better than GT5 or not.

This same assist was in FM 3 and many have been singing FM's virtues over the past few months in that thread. I don't understand why it is now such a huge problem for certain people when they defended FM3 to death and didn't make any mention of this assist.

Because T10 told us they'd get rid of it and didn't...

It looks better, handles better, has better sounds, better ffb back, public custom lobbies are back, new tracks, new cars. Yet this one problem that was present in FM3 is suddenly a huge problem. Confused.

However, I still agree with this.

Dan Greenawalt has already confirmed that the steering is the exact same in the full game. So it doesn't matter whether or not it is the demo.

As someone else said, it seems to be an issue with 900° steering, so it might not be directly related to the simulation steering itself... Just saying. I don't think it'll change, myself.

T10 explained it. If you look, when the wheel jerks, it doesnt move the front tires of the car. Read Dans snippet about it, he explained what people are seeing.

The problem, in my opinion, is that both parties might very well be right... T10 might have tried to model that torgue alignment and whatnot, but some issue somewhere inside the code basically causes it to behave a lot like the steering assist in FM3... Not saying that that's the case, but I wouldn't deem it impossible that both side have a fair point.

Besides, that explanation still sounds like a cop-out to me.

ANYWAY, even though the Cougar was the slowest car I had the most fun with it. Such a cool/fun car to drive.

Two words: The. Sound. 👍

My hopes lies in fact how Demo can't really recognize 900 input device until you actually perform a "S_1/S_2" trick and it could lead in full recognition when options become available.

I've been having similar thoughts, but it won't be long until we find out.

I've got to admit, though, it'd be hilarious if all of this was just caused by the lack of options. All that commotion for nothing...

I can confirm the "assist" does not kick in unless there is some serious sliding going on. Probably a combination of factors such as slip angles, speed, and the act of actually counter-steering.

What angles are we talking about here? Just curious... If it requires a full-blown drift to kick in, it's at least not going to be permanently messing with your driving...

So WHAT are people ENJOYING about the demo. Anyone some GOOD things to say, are YOUR impressions good/mixed/bad?

Well, I enjoyed basiccally everything, aside from not being able to map my button layout on the controller the way I want to, but hey, it's a demo

Sound's great, graphics are great (loving the consistency), the cars feel very good... Rivals mode seems interesting, too.

The steering assist didn't get to me so far, as I'm a pad player... I'll see whether it's interfering with me a lot when I get to use the game with a wheel over the weekend.

 

[t.o.]

My conclusion about tire wear posted in another thread.



That's the problem, the tires lasts way too long, and how you drive doesn't affect it's life length.

I don't know how many races you've watched but tires last a lot longer than people think and road tires trade performance for long LONG life. In the past few years I've been watching more and more races and I don't see guys pitting every 15 minutes and these races last HOURS. The problem people are having is that the tires are TOO real in the game. I always get a good laugh when I hear this complaint though.

 

[HAL20XX]

Exactly, during low to mid range and long turns it has so much grip in stock form as if I was driving with sport soft. When you get to high speed and make steering input the car just goes crazy. It's like its over steering the car on it's on.

Are you taking the large banks and slopes of the track into account? If you're coming up over the crest of a hill going full throttle and the steering wheel is cranked, you're likely going to upset the suspension of the car. Watch your telemetry (press up and right on the d-pad - you can view traction, tire temp, suspension travel, and more) and I'm sure you'll start to see why you're experiencing such drastic differences.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I don't know how many races you've watched but tires last a lot longer than people think and road tires trade performance for long LONG life. In the past few years I've been watching more and more races and I don't see guys pitting every 15 minutes and these races last HOURS. The problem people are having is that the tires are TOO real in the game. I always get a good laugh when I hear this complaint though.

He did say this if you missed it:

So, after 30 min of constant burning I managed to wear out 37% of my rear tires which is a big let down.

I'm no expert in tyre life but I think that is too unreal.

 

[Chad Esposito]

Why do people insist on: "Oh, I'm getting used to the physics now that I've played x hours", and similar arguments...

Physics is physics, you don't get used to it, it's either right from the beginning or then it is anything but physics.

Forza 4 is a huge let down for me in that department.

It is just another console game where you have to do what the game wants you to do, not what a driver/racer would need to do to be successful. (To any given possible extent virtually speaking, that is.)

 

[eric1971]

You mean compared to real life? Or you just thought the handling wasnt right in the game having never driven a 458?

No, not compared to real life.

What I am saying is, my initial impression was there were some inconsistencies in the way the car handled when pushed to the limit. Didn't really detract from the game, just something I had to adapt to.

 

[t.o.]

He did say this if you missed it:



I'm no expert in tyre life but I think that is too unreal.

I'm not expert either but I've hung around guys who, while not a consistent 30 min burnout, during the course of a night put in over 30 minutes (combined) burnouts (well doughnuts) and tires don't really look that worse for wear.

I just looked at the results of one of the ALMS races and the results are pretty much on point with what the game does.
http://scoring.americanlemans.com/scoring.php

Keep in mind that alot of the pits aren't even for tires you're watching. Some pits are just to get a splash of fuel and some change tires just because the strategy works in their favor but doesn't necessarily mean the rubber is done. But even if you don't believe that the numbers don't lie. On average it's about a pit per hour which is about the same as the game, depending on car and driver forza might be too short on tire life at that. Usually , in the race cars at least, you can feel the tires giving out right around the time when you can use a fill up. Which, in a race, is usually worked out that way by the engineers and cars are setup appropriately.

 

[zr1chris]

Some of the top 10 times are about 10 seconds ahead of mine. Just insane how good people are. And some of the top people had the demo early because it puts the date right next to their time. So they have had a couple more days practice than us.

I must admit I also had the demo since Friday night so I can't use that as an excuse for me. I'm just under 3 seconds off the lead with almost a full second that i think I'm capable of improving on.

Yeah, I've set them to the hardest difficulty possible, but it's still pretty easy to get ~1 second faster a lap than the guy in first, and that's whith traffic slowing me down.

I'm not yet completely used to the physics, the car (Mercury Cougar Eliminator, in this case), nor do i know the track inside out. Yet, I'm capable to go from 11th place to second in just two laps and beat the top guy's lap time in the process... And I'm not a very fast driver.

Don't get me wrong, that's perfectly fine for a two-lap race, as it'd be challenging to take a win there, very challenging, to be honest. However, I'm a bit concerned what's going to happen when I've got a third, fourth or even fifth round to go, when I'm this close to taking the lead after just two with lots of traffic...

Same goes for not starting in the back. If I started in, say, fifth place, I'd catch that guy in front with ease in those two laps.

To be honest I haven't tried the Cougar in the hardest setting. Have you tried the 458 single player race? That was the one race where 1st place seemed to leave the pack and I couldn't quite track him down in time.

Also Dan has said that World Tour mode is going to have progressive difficulty and that there is 20 levels of progression so it should be better than the settings in single race. At least I hope so.

 

[Fredde_swe]

I don't know how many races you've watched but tires last a lot longer than people think and road tires trade performance for long LONG life. In the past few years I've been watching more and more races and I don't see guys pitting every 15 minutes and these races last HOURS. The problem people are having is that the tires are TOO real in the game. I always get a good laugh when I hear this complaint though.

From my real life experice at the track, street tires are useless if you are looking for some serious driving. If you aren't a sunday driver you will overheat your tires after a few laps, and your brakes

So no, you can't compare normal street tires with R-compound tires or slicks.

 

[JDMKING13]

From my real life experice at the race track, street tires are useless. If you aren't a sunday driver you will overheat your tires after a few laps, and your brakes

So no, you can't compare normal street tires with R-compound tires.

Exactly, I was watching Best Motoring Video they were doing stock car durability challenge and after 6 laps the tires and brakes were done. This was coming from one of the drivers commenting of the loss of brake power and tire grip.

 

[Luminis]

Why do people insist on: "Oh, I'm getting used to the physics now that I've played x hours", and similar arguments...

Because people have been playing other games, and to my knowledge, every console game does have its own quirks and weaknesses in terms of physics. So, if someone played a different game (say, FM3 or GT5) prior to FM4 Demo, he or she would have to "unlearn" the quirks of said game to get used to the new one.

This says little about how good/bad the game is. Just that it's different from the games you've played so far.

It is just another console game where you have to do what the game wants you to do, not what a driver/racer would need to do to be successful. (To any given possible extent virtually speaking, that is.)

What does someone without massive track knowledge do, then?

Also, I assume you've got that, of course... Just to be able to tell the difference.

To be honest I haven't tried the Cougar in the hardest setting. Have you tried the 458 single player race? That was the one race where 1st place seemed to leave the pack and I couldn't quite track him down in time.

Yeah, I played that race for a bit... I can't catch the MP4-12C either, but I can easily manage to drive one to two seconds a lap faster. It's just a bit alarming that I can pass that many opponents in two laps, really.

Also Dan has said that World Tour mode is going to have progressive difficulty and that there is 20 levels of progression so it should be better than the settings in single race. At least I hope so.

Agreed, that's what I'm hoping for, as well. It's fine to have a lower ddifficulty when starting out, as the races are rather short. But I want the AI drivers to last for a few minutes before I've passed all of them

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

From my real life experice at the track, street tires are useless if you are looking for some serious driving. If you aren't a sunday driver you will overheat your tires after a few laps, and your brakes

So no, you can't compare normal street tires with R-compound tires or slicks.

Exactly, I was watching Best Motoring Video they were doing stock car durability challenge and after 6 laps the tires and brakes were done. This was coming from one of the drivers commenting of the loss of brake power and tire grip.

Exactly,
I have been road track racing for many years with many videos of proof and yes stock street tires will get chewed up quick at a road track event. Street tires are for the street and daily driving, not for racing.

I have been running Nitto 555 R Extreme compound tires on my 69 Camaro and they do VERY well on road tracks. Even after 20 straight minutes of lap after lap, turn after turn, hill after hill. But you also get what you pay for. Thats why street tires are much cheaper than R compound tires. Just one 18" rear tire for my 69 Camaro is over $200.00. But they have lasted quite a few years of road track abuse. Plus they are R rated so they made for track abuse. The Nittos are excellent tires for on and off the track. Even in the rain they are impressive. 👍

 

[Bogie 19th]

Why do people insist on: "Oh, I'm getting used to the physics now that I've played x hours", and similar arguments...
Physics is physics, you don't get used to it

In a game, in real life. Sure you do.

Forza 4 is a huge let down for me in that department.

It is just another console game where you have to do what the game wants you to do, not what a driver/racer would need to do to be successful. (To any given possible extent virtually speaking, that is.)

It is indeed a console game, and there is no getting around that. iRacing and the like that are on PC will always be a step ahead when you go with this generation of consoles. Race Pro 09 has some PC physics behind it, and is probably the best you have on console. FM4 is right there behind it though in a distant 2nd place.

 

[HBK]

What angles are we talking about here? Just curious... If it requires a full-blown drift to kick in, it's at least not going to be permanently messing with your driving...

"It's not going to be permanently messing with your driving."

From my experience anyway.

 

[McLaren]

Why is it being called a GREEN disk? Because of the Xbox 360 logo on top?

Pretty much. They're normally beta discs sent out to do last minute testing. In FM's case, it's the full, retail copy of the game sent for bug finding & content creation.

 

[Chad Esposito]

Because people have been playing other games, and to my knowledge, every console game does have its own quirks and weaknesses in terms of physics. So, if someone played a different game (say, FM3 or GT5) prior to FM4 Demo, he or she would have to "unlearn" the quirks of said game to get used to the new one.

This says little about how good/bad the game is. Just that it's different from the games you've played so far.


What does someone without massive track knowledge do, then?

Also, I assume you've got that, of course... Just to be able to tell the difference.

It says the game is a really bad simulation, that is what it says.

I can jump from rfactor, to gtr2, to netkar, to iracing by making subtle modifications on the driving. That is the huge difference we're talking about here.

I do have some track experience, not massive, but enough to make me distinguish if FM4 is a good simulation attempt or not.

In a game, in real life. Sure you do.

It is indeed a console game, and there is no getting around that. iRacing and the like that are on PC will always be a step ahead when you go with this generation of consoles. Race Pro 09 has some PC physics behind it, and is probably the best you have on console. FM4 is right there behind it though in a distant 2nd place.

Couldn't agree more with you.

What makes me tick is all these lies/campaigns about "Extremely realistic, so awesome with Pirelli's help, such a new suspension model, etc..." If they've marketed it as a "Great, amazing car game", I would remain silent.

Oh, forgot about it, in real life, and in a good simulation, you adapt to a car's response, not to the physics itself, right? Physics don't change, cars do...

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

PLEASE anybody got a LIVE trial code that he/ she don't need to give to me?
I'm out of money and also occupied playing Gran Turismo, but I'd really like to try this out.

👍

 

[NA]

PLEASE anybody got a LIVE trial code that he/ she don't need to give to me?
I'm out of money and also occupied playing Gran Turismo, but I'd really like to try this out.

👍

Won't be able to get it with a trial code from what I've read, but it'll be released to everyone on the 7th I think.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Yes, I just read that the 48 hour codes won't allow you access to the demo. However, you can create a free month Xbox Live Gold trial right on your Xbox, and you can download it.

 

[Luminis]

It says the game is a really bad simulation, that is what it says.

I can jump from rfactor, to gtr2, to netkar, to iracing by making subtle modifications on the driving. That is the huge difference we're talking about here.

So, you expected it to be on par with iRacing and the like? Bit much, isn't it?

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

Won't be able to get it with a trial code from what I've read, but it'll be released to everyone on the 7th I think.

Yes, I just read that the 48 hour codes won't allow you access to the demo. However, you can create a free month Xbox Live Gold trial right on your Xbox, and you can download it.

Ohh, thanks guys, I didn't know that. 👍

How do I set up that gold trial and will I lose my old account then ( I guess not but I have no clue about Xbox Live stuff )?

 

[Vital1]

Yes, I just read that the 48 hour codes won't allow you access to the demo. However, you can create a free month Xbox Live Gold trial right on your Xbox, and you can download it.

Do you still get 3 1 month accounts up front? That's an awesome deal if it is still in effect.

Demo is awesome as far as demos go.

The cougar is too much fun to drive with all assists off. I spent 45 minutes just throwing it around the track last night.
Rivals mode will keep me up into the late hours everynight when the game comes out.
I was a little dissapointed in the M5. NOt the car itself, just the fact that the damn traffic got in the way of my fun far too often.

Can't wait to get my fanatec setup for this game.

 

[Vital1]

Ohh, thanks guys, I didn't know that. 👍

How do I set up that gold trial and will I lose my old account then ( I guess not but I have no clue about Xbox Live stuff )?

You won't lose your old account, you'll just have an extra account to play with for a month. Of course, any progrees you make within the game with that one month will be tied to that account.

 

[Chad Esposito]

So, you expected it to be on par with iRacing and the like? Bit much, isn't it?

That was my bad, I acknowledge that. Just like I said to another guy on this thread many posts ago.

Also, these t10 clowns contributed with their: Super realistic, Pirelli's invaluable data, new suspension, etc... half-lies, I guess.

Why the hell consoles can't have a simulation on PC level? Is it just a matter of mainstream appeal? I can't believe there are actual technical issues there.

Oh, and using a Fanatec with FM is such a waste IMO.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

I cant believe more people are not replying in the Rivals thread. Make sure you check out Rivals mode because it is truly where this demo shines. Plus the Rivals mode allows you to drive the Zonda and BMW.
Plus rivals mode lets you run lap after lap after unlimited lap.

 

[GTP_Kazama]

I love that the goofs over on their forum are not posting anything to do with the fact there are cheaters on the demo already, just a tad suspicious that one guy is 17 seconds faster than everyone else. I have tried to make a couple of posts to get their attention on this but not one has been put up in their forum, at least PD acknowledge and attempt to fix their mistakes.

Here we go again with day one glitchers/cheaters that T10 claim will be fixed yet years after they will still be there... Good work T10

 

[NA]

.

Why the hell consoles can't have a simulation on PC level? Is it just a matter of mainstream appeal? I can't believe there are actual technical issues there.

.

Not bad, but behind many current computers, so there are limits compared to a PC.

Edit: and add Justin's post below me to this has well.
Edit 2: !IMPORTANT! I just realized those were the specs for the old Xbox, not the 360, but since we've moved on anyway, I'm just going to delete them and leave it at that.