Forza 4 Nordschleife

[Scaff]

Your conclusion is better kept at the GT vs Forza Thread, which this is NOT!

Please do not tell members which threads they can post it and what they can post, that's for the staff to determine.

If you think a comment breaks the AUP or is wildly off-topic (an AUP issue itself) then use the report button.


Thanks

Scaff

 

[azrael1965]

Please do not tell members which threads they can post it and what they can post, that's for the staff to determine.

If you think a comment breaks the AUP or is wildly off-topic (an AUP issue itself) then use the report button.


Thanks

Scaff

All in all its pretty silly a thread (not threat) has gone on so long over one track.

But he can call my thread silly? I am the original poster and i have learned a thing or two from other members here during the last few days.
But to say the truth a direct comparison of 2 games like he did, would fit better in your thread, wouldn't it.

 

[Scaff]

But he can call my thread silly? I am the original poster and i have learned a thing or two from other members here during the last few days.
But to say the truth a direct comparison of 2 games like he did, would fit better in your thread, wouldn't it.

He called the length the discussion on this has gone on silly, not your thread and his post contained more than enough that was on topic to justify being in this thread.

Now please note this is not a topic for discussion, rather a polite but firm request to not tell members which threads they can and can't post in.


Scaff

 

[adramire]

It's funny how everyone ignores the car mag review and lap times between real and virtual on Laguna and the quote from a real racer that prove that Laguna is accurate. While FM4 nurb is the real inexcusably bad track model that can be proved beyond a shadow of a doubt.

All I have heard so far from people trying to say Laguna is inaccurate is opinion.

 

[Tornado]

While FM4 nurb is the real inexcusably bad track model that can be proved beyond a shadow of a doubt.

[citation needed]

All I have heard so far from people trying to say Laguna is inaccurate is opinion.

Amazing how those are only allowed to work one way with you.

 

[Fat Old Sun]

because it is plain as day it is not modeled correctly at all.

Nor are Laguna or Monaco in GT5

Using your terminology,

[citation needed]

And couple of points. First, it has been cited earlier in this thread why Nordschleife "is not modeled correctly". Would you argue that nearly 3 mile difference in length calls FM's model accuracy in question?
Second, i would venture to say that no real world licensed track was treated in GT5 with the same "creative freedom" as FM's version of Nordschleife.

P.S. One other thing. GT5 doesn't have "Monaco" track. What it has is the track called Cote d'Azur. It is a fictional track which is based on a real world city locale. To confirm this you can take a look at a track selection menu in Practice mode. There you'll be able to see that Cote d'Azur is bundled up with "City" courses such as Tokyo, Madrid, London, SSR7 etc. All the licensed real world tracks (Nordschleife, Laguna, Suzuka etc) are located under "World Circuits".

 

[Tornado]

Using your terminology,

And my PS3 is currently in a million parts on my kitchen table, so you are just gonna have to live with it for a little while.

And actually read what I just responded to, specifically the parts that I bolded in his quote.

And couple of points. First, it has been cited earlier in this thread why Nordschleife "is not modeled correctly". Would you argue that nearly 3 mile difference in length calls FM's model accuracy in question?

Never said anything to the contrary.

P.S. One other thing. GT5 doesn't have "Monaco" track. What it has is the track called Cote d'Azur. It is a fictional track which is based on a real world city locale. To confirm this you can take a look at a track selection menu in Practice mode. There you'll be able to see that Cote d'Azur is bundled up with "City" courses such as Tokyo, Madrid, London, SSR7 etc. All the licensed real world tracks (Nordschleife, Laguna, Suzuka etc) are located under "World Circuits".

That's the exact kind of wishy washy weaseling that GT5 shouldn't need to resort to for a defense. It is clearly meant to be Monaco. It is used in races in the game that show it is supposed to be Monaco. Even if it we are going to say that it is just a city course with nothing special about it whatsoever, it still looks nothing like the streets in the city it is supposed to represent.

And besides, I know for a fact that if Turn 10 did the same thing with their Nurburgring and called it the "Nurburg Race Course" or whatever that the same standard wouldn't apply, because I actually asked people in one of the threads and was met with a resounding "no," because apparently the Nurburgring is so mythical and amazing that it transcends all other things in the game.

 

[Fat Old Sun]

And my PS3 is currently in a million parts on my kitchen table, so you are just gonna have to live with it for a little while.

I am? I figured given your firm tone you'd have no problem coming up with the reason you believe Laguna in GT5 is messed up on the level Nordschleife is messed up in FM4. I mean, for starters, it would have to be 15% longer than it actually is, wouldn't it?

That's the exact kind of wishy washy weaseling that GT5 shouldn't need to resort to for a defense. It is clearly meant to be Monaco. It is used in races in the game that show it is supposed to be Monaco.

And Rome is used in races in the game that show it is supposed to be Rome. What is your point?
I think you're overthinking the issue. GT5 doesn't lay a claim to have real world Monaco GP circuit in the game. If it did, it wouldn't be called Cote d'Azur. May be PD couldn't secure the license for the track, may be they didn't feel the need to. The matter of the fact is, Cote d'Azur is a fictional track and any resemblance to real Monaco circuit is a plus, not a negative. Once again, it is under the category of fictional tracks, along with the likes of SSR7.

Even if it we are going to say that it is just a city course with nothing special about it whatsoever, it still looks nothing like the streets in the city it is supposed to represent.

Is Cote d'Azur a real world city? And it is "just a city course". Just like SSR7, which in turn also doesn't look "nothing like the streets in the city it is supposed to represent". Which city would that be, by the way?

And besides, I know for a fact that if Turn 10 did the same thing with their Nurburgring and called it the "Nurburg Race Course" or whatever that the same standard wouldn't apply, because I actually asked people in one of the threads and was met with a resounding "no," because apparently the Nurburgring is so mythical and amazing that it transcends all other things in the game.

I don't quite understand what you are trying to say here, but if Turn 10 named FM4's version of Nordschleife "Nurburg Race Course", all the criticism of it's accuracy would become moot. Turn 10 would still be asked to include a proper licensed version of the track, because, after all, it is a real world track.
And more real world tracks in the game is a good thing, wouldn't you agree?

 

[MagpieRacer]

They cant call it Monaco due to F1 licensing, it is the same circuit. It is real, not fictional.

 

[Fat Old Sun]

They cant call it Monaco due to F1 licensing, it is the same circuit. It is real, not fictional.

I'll quote myself.

GT5 doesn't lay a claim to have real world Monaco GP circuit in the game.

PD filed it under "City" circuits within the game. All "real and not fictional" circuits are located under "World Circuits" menu selection.

To make it even more clear. The fact that they didn't call it "Circuit de Monaco"
gives them freedom to interpret the track the way their heart desire. It is not a perfect representation of a real world Circuit de Monaco. Because it doesn't have to be.

 

[MagpieRacer]

The Côte d'Azur circuit, which first appeared in Gran Turismo 3, is a slightly adapted version of the Circuit de Monaco. The changes made to Turns 1 (Saint Devote) and 10/11 (La Nouvelle Chicane) are designed to prevent the player from cutting. The circuit also lacks the large 'bump' between Casino and Mirabeau which is a major feature of the real circuit.

I say again, the Cote d'Azur name comes from licensing issues. As the circuit is used exclusively for F1 it requires different licensing to the like of Spa. Thus they named it after the stretch of coast it resides on.

 

[Fat Old Sun]

I say again, the Cote d'Azur name comes from licensing issues. As the circuit is used exclusively for F1 it requires different licensing to the like of Spa. Thus they named it after the stretch of coast it resides on.

This was already mentioned in my post you replied to.

GT5 doesn't lay a claim to have real world Monaco GP circuit in the game. If it did, it wouldn't be called Cote d'Azur. May be PD couldn't secure the license for the track, may be they didn't feel the need to.

I thank you, of course, for your version of events as to why PD elected to name the track Cote d'Azur. It still, however, doesn't explain why someone would expect the same level of attention to detail in the absence of such promise from PD. I just can't resist, i'll have to quote myself again:

The fact that they didn't call it "Circuit de Monaco" gives them freedom to interpret the track the way their heart desire. It is not a perfect representation of a real world Circuit de Monaco. Because it doesn't have to be.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Thats why I quoted the section detailing what is different between the 2 Re-read the quote.

 

[Fat Old Sun]

Thats why I quoted the section detailing what is different between the 2 Re-read the quote.

Nothing in that quote contradicts the points i've been making.
To bring some coherence to the the discussion, let's backtrack a little bit. Toronado brought Cote d'Azur up into this topic to illustrate his point on as to why PD is just as guilty of mangling real world tracks as Turn 10 is with their artistic take on Nordschleife. To which i pointed out that Cote d'Azur is not an officially licensed track and therefore PD is free to interpret it to the extent they deem necessary.
You see, it's just not a good example of PD's negligence when it come to recreating a real world circuit. I find it unreasonable to hold PD to a promise they never made.

 

[PzR Slim]

Nothing in that quote contradicts the points i've been making.
To bring some coherence to the the discussion, let's backtrack a little bit. Toronado brought Cote d'Azur up into this topic to illustrate his point on as to why PD is just as guilty of mangling real world tracks as Turn 10 is with their artistic take on Nordschleife. To which i pointed out that Cote d'Azur is not an officially licensed track and therefore PD is free to interpret it to the extent they deem necessary.
You see, it's just not a good example of PD's negligence when it come to recreating a real world circuit. I find it unreasonable to hold PD to a promise they never made.

Why not just admit they didn't get Monaco right? Just like everyone admits T10 didn't get the ring right. Both games make mistakes in track and car modelling.

 

[azrael1965]

Because it's a fantasy track like amalfi coast in Forza 4 and not a real world track, just as Fat old sun explained.

 

[Bogie 19th]

So now it's ok for a track to be inaccurate if it carries a different name? Now I have heard it all.

 

[azrael1965]

Yes it is. If you buy coca cola , you expect coca cola. If you pay for red bull, you expect red bull. And if you buy 'energy drink', well it doesn't need to be red bull.

 

[PzR Slim]

Because it's a fantasy track like amalfi coast in Forza 4 and not a real world track, just as Fat old sun explained.

lol, and this is the reason this 'debate' really is a joke. The whole GT/FM debate would be so much simpler if people would just be honest with themselves. And that goes for people from both 'sides'. It really is pathetic.

 

[azrael1965]

Not at all. I am perfectly honest with myself and i am certainly not pathetic. GT5s Cote'd Azure just not accurate enough to be named Circuit de Monaco.

 

[PzR Slim]

Not at all. I am perfectly honest with myself and i am certainly not pathetic.

So let me get this right the Ring in FM would be perfectly acceptable to you if they called it 'Long German Track' in game?

 

[Scaff]

Because it's a fantasy track like amalfi coast in Forza 4 and not a real world track, just as Fat old sun explained.

Its half way between the two.

It's clearly modelled on a real world track, but its not accurate to any single layout of the real track, however it differs by enough in terms of layout, name and location to get around licensing issues.

Its not however a fantasy track in the same vein as Amalfi, as its clearly not the entire product of the imagination.

I'm also going to make it quite clear that the staff have had enough of the inflammatory comments and the next one to step over that line gets a two day holiday. No ones opinion or view is to be described as 'pathetic' or anything close to that. Its getting far to near a personal dig to be let slid.

No further warning will be given and no 'told you so' rebuttals will be posted. Get back to discussing the topic and keep to the AUP.


Scaff

 

[PzR Slim]

I just want to make it clear that I wasnt referring to any single person as being pathetic but where the discussion had got to.

 

[azrael1965]

So let me get this right the Ring in FM would be perfectly acceptable to you if they called it 'Long German Track' in game?

Actually 'Eiffel Track' or even better 'Nordring' would be ok. Everyone would know on what it's based and it's still a fantasy track. But of course i would still demand the real accurate version. To say the truth , the FM4 Nordschleife as just a track, isn't that bad. It's real fun to race on it, especially in rival mode with slow car traffic. Sure it's not accurate, but during a race most people wouldn't care, just like someone else said. I enjoy it more then i intended to and i really like FM4s physics. So I would like to test them on a accurate Nordschleife. Rival mode is also great, it's almost like multiplayer even without X-Box Gold. I wished Gt5 had something cool like that.

 

[Scaff]

I just want to make it clear that I wasnt referring to any single person as being pathetic but where the discussion had got to.

And I want to be clear that it stops:

You will, if asked by a representative of the forums, cease posting any content.

Scaff

 

[PzR Slim]

And I want to be clear that it stops:



Scaff

Understood. Just didn't want anyone thinking it was aimed at them.

 

[Fat Old Sun]

Why not just admit they didn't get Monaco right? Just like everyone admits T10 didn't get the ring right. Both games make mistakes in track and car modelling.

I do disagree with that notion. I made this statement before, and it might be worth it to say it again: No real world licensed track was treated in GT5 with the same "creative freedom" as Turn 10 treated FM's version of Nordschleife.

We might launch ourselves into debate on how close the unlicensed tracks are in both games to the locales they are based on, but that doesn't change the fact: the circuits PD paid money to license are treated with respect that Turn 10 did not show towards Nordschleife.

Now i understand that it is not a big deal for you, and it's fine. But be honest and give PD credit where it is due - they are not in a business to mangle real world tracks.

 

[Scaff]

I do disagree with that notion. I made this statement before, and it might be worth it to say it again: No real world licensed track was treated in GT5 with the same "creative freedom" as Turn 10 treated FM's version of Nordschleife.

We might launch ourselves into debate on how close the unlicensed tracks are in both games to the locales they are based on, but that doesn't change the fact: the circuits PD paid money to license are treated with respect that Turn 10 did not show towards Nordschleife.

Now i understand that it is not a big deal for you, and it's fine. But be honest and give PD credit where it is due - they are not in a business to mangle real world tracks.

Strictly speaking T10 are not the ones to blame, MS are. When they bought out the developers behind Project Gotham Racing (Bizzare) they gave the 'ring resources to T10 and told them to use them.

The original Forza had the PGR 'ring in it pretty much unaltered, and T10 have improved on it with each release, but its still a messed up starting point and as such a difficult one to fix until they get the green light to start from scratch.


Scaff

 

[cuco33]

Rival mode is also great, it's almost like multiplayer even without X-Box Gold. I wished Gt5 had something cool like that.

You can't play Rivals mode without XBL Gold. It's a community feature, selected either in the main menu under community tab or during race selection by selecting rivals, and requires LIVE Gold access. I had my account compromised and while I waited for MS to reinstate my active status I could not access rivals at all. It is an awesome new feature though

 

[azrael1965]

You can't play Rivals mode without XBL Gold. It's a community feature, selected either in the main menu under community tab or during race selection by selecting rivals, and requires LIVE Gold access. I had my account compromised and while I waited for MS to reinstate my active status I could not access rivals at all. It is an awesome new feature though

But i don't have X-Box Gold Membership, I know because I don't pay for it. Yet I can race vs ghosts of other players in rival mode. I was surprised myself that i was able to. Maybe it's not the true rival mode?