Forza 4 vs GT5 physics

[cuco33]

Forza Horizon is definitely different than Forza 4. I love FM4 physics, but FH, although there are some similar traits there, something to me with it just feels a bit more arcadey in a way. It could even just be me being more used to track based racing and knowing my limits with brake points and all that I don't have as much in FH. But certainly something is different between the two. Still fun but not like what I get from FM4.

To me both GT5 and FM4 have great physics, both with their own little quirks. It is when you experience a proper sim that you realize how people tag them as sim-cade or realistic physics. A good example is playing Richard Burns Rally and comparing it to GT5's rally modes, night and day difference there.

 

[TokoTurismo]

To me both GT5 and FM4 have great physics, both with their own little quirks.

You're not the only one, I agree that both games to me have good physics. I vote both. 👍

 

[FormulaKimball]

^ I've spun from the confluence of extreme weight shifting and track conditions (grass under the wheels or camber/elevation changes), and more often in Horizon than FM4, but in a "controlled" environment like the Top Gear Test Track, Benchmark, etc., it seems impossible to generate a spin.

Even Gran Turismo 4 could whip a 180 with assistance like that, so it doesn't amount to much, IMO.

I'm with you on this one as far as FF cars go... I spent the entire weekend doing Mountain Chase challenges in the Sentra SE-R Spec V (still amazed that car is in there so I can compare how it handles to my real car), and it is very hard to get the back end to come out and stay out, even with the downhill *and* weight transfer *and* a huge liftoff. I have the diff tuned to try and induce lift-off oversteer, I can sometimes get some nice 4-wheel drifts but it doesn't ever spin for me.

But overall, I'm in the "why didn't I make the switch a LONG time ago" camp. The whole FM4 experience is somehow deeper and more satisfying, and that goes for the physics too. I can in the same night go from driving the Lancia 037 at Fujimi Kaido (very mild and easy to rotate) to the Corvette C6 ZR-1 (wild oversteering animal) at Nordschleife and while the cars have different characteristics, they are not undriveable (or so nearly undriveable that it's just really tedious) as the same/similar cars are in GT5. The crucial difference is what made me want something more than GT5 in the first place: tire model. Progressive grip. Responsiveness. FM4 just does that so nicely.

 

[Wolfe]

^ I agree FormulaKimball, GT5 can't seem to find a good balance between "understeering barge" and "tediously undriveable", and the lack of progression in the tire model has a lot to do with it.

 

[Speedster911]

I've always wondered.. why devs goof up these little things in a game that could have been otherwise brilliant.

What is it really? Lack of time/resources? Laziness? Perhaps a general lack of talent or vision?

Or simply sitting on their laurels after the success of previous games.. makes one wonder...

 

[Brend]

So I got my teeth stuck into Forza 4 for the first time today.

Loving the 'fun' factor, even throwing the Aygo around was good fun albeit a bit unpredictable than I expected.

Will post more about my thoughts regarding how it is against GT5, but so far the slower cars are a bit more fun as their movements seem slightly more exaggerated than GT.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Always good to see another person diving in 👍

FM4 has been getting some more play time from me lately. There's so many interesting cars to drive, and the last few posts have nailed why; they all feel different. Even the econoboxes behave differently, and they aren't relegated to a life of understeer like GT5.

Feel free to add me; I'm not on much anymore, but I can send along some cars.

 

[FormulaKimball]

Hahaha so last night I spent the evening working on those 'Ring challenges, for some reason I decided to try doing them all with the Corvette C6 ZR-1, even those above that class (my Vette is S 699, I went as far as winning R2 875). I thought it was really a cool touch that the game asks you about the performance difference and you have a "Race Anyway" button, awesome. Which worked out nicely thanks to the super slow traffic, even the Zonda R or the CCX or the AMG CLK DTM had problems with heavy rear end accidents (so funny, the CCX in particular crashed at least four times in a row, spun out backwards with its bumper tumbling across the track). Anyway, in the R2 stages when things were getting difficult for the Vette I was really starting to loathe those stupid slow obstructive little Jettas and especially Minis which hit you no matter how carefully you try to overtake. At that point I'm doing more rally driving and eating a lot of grass to avoid collisions. Blasted Minis!

So I just happen to check the GT5 forum and what is the new seasonal? Minis! Too funny. Mistified as to why they think SRF is necessary for such an easy-to-control car but then that's the state of those Seasonals now, how sad.

I do love how in Forza, the physics respect that if you are a reasonably good driver and you react quick enough, you can save even a wild oversteering animal like the Corvette from losing the rear entirely. Again, some cars in GT5 I would frequently find myself shouting at the tv and just plain losing respect for (forgetting it's just a game), but in Forza it's all coming back. And I love that.

 

[Speedster911]

So I got my teeth stuck into Forza 4 for the first time today.

Loving the 'fun' factor, even throwing the Aygo around was good fun albeit a bit unpredictable than I expected.

Will post more about my thoughts regarding how it is against GT5, but so far the slower cars are a bit more fun as their movements seem slightly more exaggerated than GT.

Movements aren't exaggerated, they're more precise. GT5's movement is a bit linear and numb by comparison. Also you might want to turn off camera motion effects for the best experience.

Always good to see another person diving in 👍

FM4 has been getting some more play time from me lately. There's so many interesting cars to drive, and the last few posts have nailed why; they all feel different. Even the econoboxes behave differently, and they aren't relegated to a life of understeer like GT5.

Feel free to add me; I'm not on much anymore, but I can send along some cars.

This is precisely why I got rid of my PS3 and GT5; EVERY car in FM4 has a distinct personality and characteristics.. that make it a lot of fun to drive and master.

Hahaha so last night I spent the evening working on those 'Ring challenges, for some reason I decided to try doing them all with the Corvette C6 ZR-1, even those above that class (my Vette is S 699, I went as far as winning R2 875). I thought it was really a cool touch that the game asks you about the performance difference and you have a "Race Anyway" button, awesome. Which worked out nicely thanks to the super slow traffic, even the Zonda R or the CCX or the AMG CLK DTM had problems with heavy rear end accidents (so funny, the CCX in particular crashed at least four times in a row, spun out backwards with its bumper tumbling across the track). Anyway, in the R2 stages when things were getting difficult for the Vette I was really starting to loathe those stupid slow obstructive little Jettas and especially Minis which hit you no matter how carefully you try to overtake. At that point I'm doing more rally driving and eating a lot of grass to avoid collisions. Blasted Minis!

So I just happen to check the GT5 forum and what is the new seasonal? Minis! Too funny. Mistified as to why they think SRF is necessary for such an easy-to-control car but then that's the state of those Seasonals now, how sad.

I do love how in Forza, the physics respect that if you are a reasonably good driver and you react quick enough, you can save even a wild oversteering animal like the Corvette from losing the rear entirely. Again, some cars in GT5 I would frequently find myself shouting at the tv and just plain losing respect for (forgetting it's just a game), but in Forza it's all coming back. And I love that.

Check that bro! If Horizon had just done a copy/paste of FM4 physics and sounds, it might have enjoyed a longer shelf life. An easy and fun racing game does not have to mean compromising physics and other essential bits.. specially since those bits happen to be coming from seasoned vets such as T10

 

[Speedster911]

^^ That last bit is somewhat irrelavant, I just felt like smashing that in. So bear with me if you will!

 

[ImaRobot]

Your posts are one minute apart, you couldnt just edit it?

I thought FH sounds were exactly the same. I didnt really notice anything different.

 

[Speedster911]

^^ Err....might I suggest going back to FM4, turning up the volume to ear-deafening levels, and getting back to us?

Good luck not getting blown off your seat/sofa!

 

[ImaRobot]

^^ Err....might I suggest going back to FM4, turning up the volume to ear-deafening levels, and getting back to us?

Good luck not getting blown off your seat/sofa!

So the only way to notice the difference is to overload my speakers to the point they practically break? If that's what it takes to hear the slight differences then no thanks.

 

[Speedster911]

Boy...you sure don't see exaggeration coming huh?

You can keep the volume level the same.. and see for yourself.

I prefer cranking them up.. just to hear the sweet and meaty engines. If you're using good speakers, they definitely won't break, even at near-max levels!

 

[ImaRobot]

I don't ever recall there being a difference between sounds, all I recall is that one game was louder then the other and that's it. I haven't played it in some while, but what your explaining just sounds like your talking about volume.

Different volumes =\= different sounds.

 

[Speedster911]

No ImaRobot, I meant more sound detail.

From the low rpm rumble and throatiness to the high revving whines and screams.

There's better sound detail, for a fact.

 

[ImaRobot]

No ImaRobot, I meant more sound detail.

From the low rpm rumble and throatiness to the high revving whines and screams.

There's better sound detail, for a fact.

Are you sure? Because I cant recall it being different at all, but like I said, its been a while since I played.

Searching around the web, I also couldnt find anything on it. Could you please show me the fact behind this because I'm having a hard time finding anything on the subject.

 

[Speedster911]

Dude,

The best test is your own hearing and playing both games. First, boot up Horizon, then drive the same cars in Motorsport 4. Same volume level and everything.

I wouldn't call it night and day, but you will clearly notice more sound DETAIL from the low exhaust rumble...or when you hear the throttle lift off rumble of the exhaust and the whine of the engine... to the moment when you hear all pistons/valves/headers firing off at higher rpms. The sound detail is just extremely gratifying and pleasing to the ear. Something that most gamers picked up on right away and felt was missing from Horizon.

 

[VXR]

The sounds themselves aren't different, the Horizon mix puts more emphasis on the ambient sound of the world rather than the engines, so they aren't as forward as those in FM4. Last night my parents mistook FM4's HSV GTS for thunder, that's how forward in the mix the engine and exhaust sounds are in that game. I'd not really touched FM since Horizon and getting GT5, so I'd forgotten just how awesome the cars sound. With GT5 it's a pleasant surprise to hear a seemingly realistic engine note, but in FM4 it's practically a forgone conclusion.

Physics wise, I prefer the initial turn-in on GT5, but once into a corner, especially with oversteer, I much prefer the control and modulation of Forza. I've mapped the PS3 controller to the same main functions as Forza, too. That helps a lot when switching between the two.

 

[Speedster911]

You explain it well VXR.

I much prefer FM4's audio design in that case. Used to be a huge GT fan. Ended up ditching it permanently when FM4 came out!

 

[Scaff]

Since the merge we now have two of these threads, so the oldest one gets top billing and this can continue here:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=226995&highlight=physics