Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

Discussion in 'Forza Motorsport 4' started by hennessey86, Nov 16, 2011.

  1. Speedster911

    Speedster911

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    ^^ There ought to be if there isn't. Seems far more logical than FM5 vs GT6.

    And how in they heck do you get the cameras so close to the dash dials and wheel?:odd:
     
  2. Imari

    Imari

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    So do it here. It's basically the same as GT5 vs. FM4 though, except that GT6 is missing a few of the features that made GT5 unique.

    GT6 still has more cars and more tracks. It's still worse at pretty much everything else. At least GT5 had course creator and B Spec for something a little bit different.
     
  3. Speedster911

    Speedster911

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    Hey, GT was fun for a while. Forza overtakes it by a mile, leaving it choking in the dust/smoke. That's why I've never bothered going back since F4, or even picking up a PS3 again for 6. So much more to a sim than visuals. In fact, IMO visuals are secondary.
     
  4. PepeMickey

    PepeMickey

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    BTW, I've been playing around with the "Camera Motion effects" option in FM4 and apart from the hands shaking a bit on straights I can't really see a visual difference but for some reason, the game feels more planted and sim-like with them off.

    Is this true or am I just imagining things.
     
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  5. Speedster911

    Speedster911

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    Hey Pepe, how ya been mayn?! :cheers:

    If you recall, sometime last year I posted a reply in one of the FM4 threads regarding the cam motion effects. Somebody was complaining about FOV issues, and I recommended leaving them off.

    I've done a great deal of so-called experimenting over this myself. I prefer keeping them off and here's why:

    * While the motion effects attempt to immerse the player more, it simple exaggerates movement by a certain degree in order to give a heightened sense of speed, inertia and g forces. You still feel all this with the setting off, but without all the additional shaking and wobbling and zoom in/out (cockpit view while accelerating and braking)

    * You get a fish eye effect the faster you go; not ideal for judging corner entry speed, picking race lines and corner exit. At higher speeds, the sides of your screen will stretch out, including nearby objects and cars as if you're going into warp mode. Furthermore, even at slower speeds you get this fish eye effect as you're slowing down and trying to hit sharper apexes; the world looks stretched out around the screen's edges. Not good for cornering.

    * Since cars and objects get really stretched out around you at higher speeds, this creates two problems mainly - the distances between yourself and other cars becomes difficult to judge, and, counter steering can be a real chore. The fish eye effect makes it difficult to anticipate where the wheels and nose especially is going to be since the edges are zoomed out. You'll know exactly what I mean once your tail goes out at speeds in excess of 100 mph and much higher.

    * When you're cornering at high speeds in an actual car and maintaining grip/turn angle, you get this wobbly effect from the suspension which is done well with motion effects, however, there is no variation in the amount of wobble you experience irrespective of your suspension type. Yes, muscle cars and lower end sedans/hatchbacks feel more floaty like they should, but the cam movement makes it seem like their riding on well-tuned high performance springs and suspension. I can't explain it any better than that.

    Now, turn it off, and immediately you'll see improvements in your sim experience:

    * The zoom out fish eye effect is practically gone as you move at higher speeds. You can judge corners much better as apexes and entry/exit points are better visible.

    * In the dash view you can better experience what the suspension is doing, since the added wobbling, shaking and zoom in/out is gone.

    * You can judge almost exactly how far away you are from cars around you since the FOV isn't stretched out around the edges or zoomed out at higher speeds.

    * Try kicking your tail out and maintaining a slide. You can better see the corners and edges of your screen as your tail slides past 45 degrees. Just give it a shot, you'll know exactly what I mean. No better way to explain!

    * Since there's no forced or exaggerated movement going on with the cam, you'll be getting much better feedback from different stock suspensions. With floaty cars you can really feel the tires digging in, and the pitch/angle of the horizon react to that as you throw your car into turns. See, there's no artificial movement acting on the perspective, so you'll get a good sense of how much your car is leaning and rolling into a corner. As I said, can't explain it any better. Just see for yourself. In fact, just like you said - cars feel more planted and sim like.

    There is also one more downside to having effects turned on: the bumper cam seems like its sitting rather high as you're overtaking other cars... you'll notice it. It doesn't sit at the correct height to begin with; IMO it's not low enough to the tarmac. And motion effects make it look higher. Besides, I think it's more of a slightly zoomed in view that sits on the edge of your hood/bonnet anyway, to give you a better glimpse of corners and the road ahead. Remember how nice bumper cams are in GRID, Dirt and Shift? Nice and low relative to the road..how it should be.

    Anyway, if you honestly are looking for the best immersion, and "connected" feel to the car and track with proper true to life cam movement, leave the effects off mate. Try it for a few days at least.

    Happy motoring. :D
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
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  6. PepeMickey

    PepeMickey

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    Yeah, I mean, it looks nice at high speed corners like the ones in Catalunya but then, on the same track at the last chicane, the wobble is too much and it feels like the car takes forever to turn in.

    The steering animation is already quite slow in FM4 but with the motion effects off it seems to be much closer to your inputs.

    I'm going to leave it off for a while.
     
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  7. Speedster911

    Speedster911

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    Exactly... it's a nice gimmick at best. Takes away from the sim experience if left on.
     
  8. King1982

    King1982 (Banned)

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    havent noticed anything in the past, but i will try it out.
     
  9. Speedster911

    Speedster911

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    Like Pepe said, just makes it unnecessarily difficult to turn the car. Not due to the physics, but how the cam relays visual ques to the driver, with mot. effects on.
     
  10. UnkaD

    UnkaD

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    I'll put this here and hopefully the first few lines keeps the post relevant. I suppose I have become accustomed to the analog controls of the GT series since the first game. I want to know if this might be a case of my muscle memory conflicting with new situations, or if there is an actual difference that I'm not imagining. Here it goes:

    You know how when you've practiced at something for a while, and then after a long period of absence you come back to it and everything rushes back in a short time? This happens all the time with Gran Turismo. I know that after putting the game away for awhile I will fall right back into it easily. At the same time, you may notice very specific aspects about it that you didn't notice before when you were completely wrapped into it. Now, this is what happened with a particular game I picked up a couple years ago, but haven't touched since September. Of course, this game is Forza 4.

    Today, I jumped back on my nephew's 360 with the only Xbox game that I own. Only three seasons passed, but I felt strong nostalgia anyway. Specific cars and my glowing collection of custom liveries along with a clutch option on the controller is what will keep me visiting this game in years to come. But... the controller. I love the set-up on Forza 4 with the clutch on the shoulder button and A and X for shifting, but I can't get used to the controller itself. If it's not the controller, then perhaps it's in the game.

    I spent two hours trying to win a GT2 race with the BMW M3 GT2 on Silverstone. The thing is that I notice a very distinct lag with steering input along with a very wide dead zone. I have to resort to constant flicks of the analog stick for every corner. It's like nothing, nothing, nothing, oh! Full lock! With the triggers, I'm not sure. I notice throttle with very little input, but at the same time I had trouble through the hairpin exits. I could keep constant at 50mph, but as soon as I increased throttle just a tiny bit the rear would just refuse to grip and the AI would run away hard. I softened up the rear with full downforce and a diff change and nothing helps. I just can't drive smoothly like I could in GT5. The controls feel so disconnected from the car that I can't be consistent, especially in slower parts of the track.

    So, now... Is it just me being too used to Gran Turismo? Does anyone else notice this? I can't find anybody talking about it, so I don't know. Is there a way to mess around with the Xbox controller dead zones? That would be the most helpful thing to me.
     
  11. Speedster911

    Speedster911

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    Hey dude! Would love to help you out in this scenario. Here goes:

    To get the best out of the X360 controller and FM4, you need to set all inside deads to zero, outside deads to max. All of them. This can be accessed from the career main menu. Go into My Profile, and you'll find it - Controller --> Advanced Settings. Avoid using man with clutch on a controller, it's just retarded. Doesn't work all that well, though it does make things interesting.

    Apart from this, you could try switching off motion effects; makes it easier to see around corners and pick better racing lines. Personal preference really, may or may not improve the experience. Also, IMO the hood view gives the most accurate FOV and depth perception.

    It's your deadzones that are messing up the experience. Plus, the X360's controller sticks are a little different than the PS3's. Take a little getting used to.

    I personally feel the control is spot on in FM4. Far more accurate and precise than GT5.

    Happy motoring!
     
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  12. Lexijag

    Lexijag

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    ^^Cheers for that post Speedster, I will have a play with the settings when I'm on next!

    In regards to the clutch, it use it because it adds another layer to the experience, although with some cars it's almost impossible to get a smooth change (The Nissan Skyline R34 being one of them).

    I really wish it had more of a degree of control though, and wasn't so on/off. That's all that's stopping it from being a good feature.
     
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  13. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot

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    I'm not sure why he thinks the clutch is retarded, but I seem to think the opposite.

    If you set your clutch to your right joy stick, you have plenty of control over it, it is actually pressure sensitive.
     
  14. Speedster911

    Speedster911

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    ^ It is yeah. But shifting feels wierd. Difficult to get clean shifts. And the downshifts... where's that engine oomph and bark as the rev line jumps up????

    Plus, I recently learned a sound bug makes it sound as if you're bouncing off the limiter during shifts - replays only. That's something I can do without as I watch replays practically after every race.
     
  15. Bopop4

    Bopop4

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    On your car or others?
    Most people online do full throttle upshifts as it's fractionally quicker, it'll bounce the limiter at each shift though.
     
  16. Speedster911

    Speedster911

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    @Bopop4 Was referring to my car only. I race against AI. Don't do MP.
     
  17. Lexijag

    Lexijag

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    Hmm, hadn't thought of changing it to the right joystick...
     
  18. Speedster911

    Speedster911

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    ^^ I tried that too. Just feels uber wierd. Good luck clean shifting!
     
  19. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot

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    It doesn't at all, its actually really easy and less intrusive then the A/B combo leaving you to be more fluid with throttle, braking, and steering. Slamming two buttons simultaneously, there can be a problem where you shift before you clutch, because it all depends on which one registers first.

    Gives more to the feel of actually "shifting" as well, when using a pad.
     
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  20. Speedster911

    Speedster911

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    @ImaRobot Yes I agree, the feel is definitely there. I guess I need to get in the habit of clean shifting... I've mildly screwed up my actual car's gearbox too by locking it up every now and then.. as a result of not clean and patient shifting.. :rolleyes:

    It's really cool Forza has the option to use clutch on a controller. What other console game does that?

    The rev limiter bouncing in replays (tis' a sound bug).. that I don't particularly enjoy.
     
  21. Lexijag

    Lexijag

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    ^^As in your real life car? What do you drive? :D
     
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  22. Speedster911

    Speedster911

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    Drive a Civic (haha)

    Tranny's fine, just need to go easy on it.. have to remind myself now and then: this is what you drive.. you're not driving a Forza car right now... and NO, yours does not have a dual clutch and sports tranny!
     
  23. Bopop4

    Bopop4

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    Toca Race Driver 3.:D
     
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  24. Speedster911

    Speedster911

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    Ahhh.....wasn't that on the PS2?
     
  25. Bopop4

    Bopop4

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    It was, I believe it was also on the original Xbox and PC.
     
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  26. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE Premium

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    The D1 GP series on PS2 also has clutch button, clutch kick was my favorite :)
     
  27. Wolfe

    Wolfe Premium

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  28. Speedster911

    Speedster911

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    I used to love racing Aussie V8 supercars in that game. Physics were good, audio was nearly spot on. I remember how my fat PS2 died.. and I immediately got a slim one to continue playing T3. Nice diversion from the GT games too!

    Wow.. Race Drivin' was also available as a play at home game!???

    Man I used to LOVE playing that at the arcades! Full wheel rotation, 5 speed stick shift, force feedback in the wheel...all 3 pedals and everything. You even had the ignition switch in case your car stalled. And we're talking about the late 80s/early 90s. Not bad at all.

    Oh boy was that a good arcade sim!!!

    Wish we could all meet up and have a sim party or something. :D
     
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  29. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE Premium

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    Forgot another gem : Ferrari F355 Challenge on PS2 ( was on arcade ) One of my most favorite racing game with H shifter in arcade, unbeatable immersion and the clutch + gear changes were excellent.
     
  30. Saidur_Ali

    Saidur_Ali

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    I think the clutch thing in Forza is very annoying.
     
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