Forza 4 with a controller STILL kick's GT5's ass with a wheel anyway.
I'm afraid I don't use a wheel for Forza, only GT5. *adds*
This!Don't you think you should try Forza with a good wheel before you judge physics ???
Forza 4 with a controller STILL kick's GT5's ass with a wheel anyway.
Clearly you haven't tried either with a wheel.
I haven't played GT5 with a wheel, but I recently tried FM4 with some generic Microsoft-branded wheel I could not identify (desk-mounted with a two-pedal set). The force-feedback was numb and uninspiring, and the overall construction felt more like a children's toy than a gaming controller. The physics and driving experience did not benefit one bit from the extra control; actually it helped expose how unnaturally smooth and artificial the game feels.
I'm sure the high-end wheels are astronomically better, but I can't help but guess that if I tried FM4 with one, it would still feel more like a game than your average PC sim. Personally, I'd rather just stick with a controller.
For comparisons, the physics don't change based on what controller you use. You can compare GT5/FM4, each with a controller, and come to the same conclusions as you would with a wheel (except for comments on force-feedback, of course).
Whatever PC you have now, hennessey86, if it can play YouTube videos without slowing down it can probably handle Live for Speed.It has a DX8 engine dating from 2003, but the clutch/shifter and 900-degree support is fantastic. Grab the free demo while you wait for your gaming PC.
For comparisons, the physics don't change based on what controller you use. You can compare GT5/FM4, each with a controller, and come to the same conclusions as you would with a wheel (except for comments on force-feedback, of course).
For the first part I have to say you couldn't be more wrong. I will disclose that I haven't really put any real time into any PC sims to be a judge so I fully disclose that but I have to say that the "feel" between using a proper wheel in Forza vs. a controller is night and day. There's no comparison. If you look at the list I made above you'll see a "weak" wheel (which sounds like what you had used being an "unbranded" microsoft wheel) is the absolute worse experience on earth. I wont say any controller will never replicate the feel of a wheel but I will say that controller hasn't been sold yet.I'm sure the high-end wheels are astronomically better, but I can't help but guess that if I tried FM4 with one, it would still feel more like a game than your average PC sim. Personally, I'd rather just stick with a controller.
For comparisons, the physics don't change based on what controller you use. You can compare GT5/FM4, each with a controller, and come to the same conclusions as you would with a wheel (except for comments on force-feedback, of course).
I also disagree that physics don't change with a controller versus a wheel. With a controller it's inevitable that certain aids and such have to be applied to control the cars. This, by it's nature, changes the physics. You can probably drive a real car with a controller but you damn sure couldn't race a car with one.
I agree 100% with you FM4 with a controller can not be compared with a wheel. It is day and night, ying and yang, evil and good. You get my drift right.
Don't you think you should try Forza with a good wheel before you judge physics ???
Forza 4 with a controller STILL kick's GT5's ass with a wheel anyway.
Well, I've tried them both with a controller so I can compare a little. I won't buy a wheel just for one game.
I 2nd that. Forza is the only racing game that ive ever played and didnt care about not using a wheel. Just works so well with a controller.
That being said, i would like to try it with a wheel. I dont have the money to spend on toys right now, im dumping a ton of money into my project car.
I hear you. I'd like to sell my G27 and Turbo 911 S and get the Fanatec CSR Elite but that ain't happening any time soon.
well just do what I did and buy a wheel that works on 360/PS3/PC, I am assuming you have G25/27 in that case a GT2/CSR will make it feel like a toy
I hear you. I'd like to sell my G27 and Turbo 911 S and get the Fanatec CSR Elite but that ain't happening any time soon.
I hate you, I hate you very much.I am going to get an elite later this year, theres nothing wrong with my GT2. I just NEED that wheel![]()
I'm starting not to like you either ...Thats the wheel i almost bought a couple months ago. I have two G27 wheels. One is modified anf the other one is in the shipping box never opened.
I hate you, I hate you very much.
I'm starting not to like you either ...
I had planned to do those crazy mods to my G27 that look like a real racing wheel with working buttons and display and all but alas I never did.![]()
Yeah, G27. I'd love to get a Fanatec, but buying one in the UK doesn't look particularly easy, and the price is sky high.![]()
The wheel I tried was a basic MS one, so maybe not so surprising....I'm surprised you didn't feel it.
Valid point. I insisted on playing GT5 with the triggers but my hands would become sore just from playing for an hour or two!I do agree with you on a basic level, but the problem is the controllers for each console are very different in terms of trigger quality and will give a very different amount of feel when driving...
Seems likely. I never meant to compare it with Fanatec wheels and such. I was just surprised that it was worse than '90s arcade cabinets....If you look at the list I made above you'll see a "weak" wheel (which sounds like what you had used being an "unbranded" microsoft wheel) is the absolute worse experience on earth...
In my opinion that's not physics at all; it's control programming. Some games may blur the lines between the two -- or not simulate any valid physics at all -- but there's still a difference between a gamepad modulating steering response rate based on velocity, and a gamepad enabling you to round a hairpin at 186mph....With a controller it's inevitable that certain aids and such have to be applied to control the cars. This, by it's nature, changes the physics...
I am going to get an elite later this year, theres nothing wrong with my GT2. I just NEED that wheel![]()
You need to know a factual *issue* about FM4.
Despite the updates introduced a fully-released physics for the wheels - you can feel incredible amount of tyre-thread simulation once you endulge into the Simulation steering setting without assists - the controllers are still having a built-in buffer for turning.
Thus, despite of the steering mode you're into (Normal or Simulation), the controller will always have *invisible* traction thank to that steering buffer. Result is simple - with the steering buffer, controller players do not fell any handicap regarding actual tyre-thread/tyre-threshold and they can enter and exit any turn more efficiently.
And because tyre-threshold is the single most important variable in movement-physics - which determines both entry and exiting capabilities and influences traction-offset in both longitudinal and lateral movement - result is that when playing with controller you can blast in and out of the turns without having almost any handicap regarding tyre-threshold. And that is the problem of course, because at the end not only that controller players can have much more stability and traction from the turns, they can also have a greater exit-speed because of the non-existence of the full thread-simulation.
Of course, another variable is 900-degree steering. Both Normal and Simulation modes have the same input-variables for the 900-steering, only difference being is the moment where tyre-thread is reaching its grip-peak (Simulation have a full-realistic simulation of peak, while Normal has it dumbed-down). What it does for your driving is allowing you to naturally steer the vehicle and apply the proper steer and countersteer. However, once controller comes into picture things again changes, because with the wheel have to cope with more than 3X more fidelity in steering-angle (controller have only 270 degree lateral angle), resulting with need to counter-act that fidelity with much more finesse and actual work with the wheel.
Controller players only have to "act" with small movement left-right (steering buffer does the rest for them) and they're out of the apex, whoosh - while you're still fighting with the countersteer.
However, please do not allow that reality of not be able to be 100% competitive against controller players disappoints you. Forza 4 has a stunning physics of tyres, probably best on any console ever, any only real way to experience that physics is by playing with the proper 900 wheel on Simulation setting. Luckily, you have the best wheel imaginable for that, CSRE does a magnificent job in taking advantage of the full physics-simulation of Forza 4 and transmitting them to the player.
The *issue* is 100% at software side, where Turn10 decided to somewhat "sacrifice" reality in favour of playability with decisions to leave the both buffers (longitudinal and lateral) working for controllers and not filtering the steering physics (Normal and Simulation) in any competitive mode of the game.
My personal advice is to just forget all of that and focus on your subjective and personal experience of the game. I have successfully overcome that complete situation in my mind and learned how to enjoy the game for myself. For playing both Career and Rivals modes I use Simulation physics exclusively and having the greatest time in any Forza game ever.
Once I go into online, I just switch to Normal steering (those options are found in the Difficulty menu prior to the race) and usually fight for the mid-tier positions with the rest of the pack.
Be patient and learn to love the sensation, not the performance. Once you overcome the reality of not being able to be equally competitive - but with cognition how your sensation is much better and much immersive than any controller can ever provide - you will start to appreciate both game and CSRE beyond any level imaginable. Regards!