Forza 5 Is A Major Dissapointment, Will DLC Save It?

[azrael1965]

All it does is increase the authenticity of it, which is fine because that's the whole point behind it being represented in a game. It doesn't really change the point that people shouldn't be "training on GT5" to learn the track, though.

I never meant that, but to have a accurate track to learn the layout helps a lot, if you plan to visit the track for a track Day. At least it helped me, i can't speak for others.

 

[McLaren]

I visited the 'Ring some years ago & that was with playing GT4 and being aware of the circuit before hand. I knew the layout such as where Pflanzgarten I/II or Kallenhard were, but I didn't know what it was physically like driving through them & that's where the experiences change. I can fly through Hohe Acht all the way to Dottinger in most games because the corners tend to feel like a rollercoaster, so as long as I hit the lines & braking points right, I had no problem just flowing through them. In a Cooper S, it was just the complete opposite because beyond certain speeds, it can just overwhelm since there's more going on. That's why I approached it like I have MSR or TMS despite never racing those tracks in video games.

 

[azrael1965]

I visited the 'Ring some years ago & that was with playing GT4 and being aware of the circuit before hand. I knew the layout such as where Pflanzgarten I/II or Kallenhard were, but I didn't know what it was physically like driving through them & that's where the experiences change. I can fly through Hohe Acht all the way to Dottinger in most games because the corners tend to feel like a rollercoaster, so as long as I hit the lines & braking points right, I had no problem just flowing through them. In a Cooper S, it was just the complete opposite because beyond certain speeds, it can just overwhelm since there's more going on. That's why I approached it like I have MSR or TMS despite never racing those tracks in video games.

To say the truth very much the same experience i had a few years ago. So we can agree on that if nothing else a accurate digital depiction helps the authenticity , which is fine with me.

 

[DaehlateM]

I visited the 'Ring some years ago & that was with playing GT4 and being aware of the circuit before hand. I knew the layout such as where Pflanzgarten I/II or Kallenhard were, but I didn't know what it was physically like driving through them & that's where the experiences change. I can fly through Hohe Acht all the way to Dottinger in most games because the corners tend to feel like a rollercoaster, so as long as I hit the lines & braking points right, I had no problem just flowing through them. In a Cooper S, it was just the complete opposite because beyond certain speeds, it can just overwhelm since there's more going on. That's why I approached it like I have MSR or TMS despite never racing those tracks in video games.

Curious when you went to the Ring and/or ran MSR?

 

[McLaren]

Curious when you went to the Ring and/or ran MSR?

I believe it was sometime in '06-'07. Been a long time. MSR I have been attending for a couple years during various events, but started going with a friend & driving his Elise this past year on member days.

 

[yakapo]

I've been playing games since pit stop and racing destruction set for the C64. Games have changed since then for the better - well, in most ways.

I don't understand why the reviews of forza 5 didn't mention all the missing stuff.
No drag racing.
No auction house.
No selling your old cars.
No reward cars.
No free upgrades.
Cars not available on free play.
Etc.

I don't care that there's "only" 200 cars. However, I would be disappointed with driving the same tracks over and over again.

Candy crush grosses close to $14 million a month. I guarantee you this is plastered on the walls of executive boardrooms in large video game corporations. We are in a new era of gaming. Previously the goal was making games enjoyable. Now the goal is to lure you in for a few hours of gaming joy then ram you into a wall of frustration. Then at your lowest point, offer a microtransaction to alleve the pain. Only $2.99 and you can buy the car you need for the next race! Why spend another hour grinding on the same races you've already done and easily won?

At least candy crush is free.

 

[DaehlateM]

I believe it was sometime in '06-'07. Been a long time. MSR I have been attending for a couple years during various events, but started going with a friend & driving his Elise this past year on member days.

You don't remember what year you went to the Ring and drove it? For such a die hard all knowing car person like yourself, I figured that would be momentous. Would you have even been a Junior in HS in 2006? I thought the ring had a 18yr old age limit for drivers, although I could be wrong.

By "attending" I'm going to assume not driving on the track. Im also pretty sure that Ethan didn't let you flog on his Lotus at MSR either.

 

[McLaren]

You don't remember what year you went to the Ring and drove it...?

Apex or TDE @ MSR?

As said, been a long time.

I've done a couple Apex, that's it. We've been going as the guest of another friend.

 

[DaehlateM]

As said, been a long time.

I've done a couple Apex, that's it. We've been going as the guest of another friend.

Im calling BS.

 

[Wolfe]

Neither Forza nor Gran Turismo even have realistic enough physics for someone to "know" any track without having driven on it before. I wouldn't necessarily trust anyone claiming proficiency on a track based only on GT/Forza experience, even if they were a good driver in general. You can learn the sequence of corners but you can't learn much more than that.

As for the Nordschleife, when I went in 2005 it seemed "larger" than in a videogame and at 18 years old it was pretty daunting for me, but the biggest difference was the obvious introduction of G-forces, particularly the incline at Fuchsröhre trying to pull your head into your chest.

 

[Speedster911]

Well, to each their own I suppose. I personally love "seat of the pants" tracks like Nordschleife and F.Kaido. It would be REALLY nice to see both these make a comeback in FM5. They most likely will.

I'm looking to kill some time with a FM4 alternative, since I won't be buying an "Xbone" anytime soon or if I'll be buying one at all.

How's about PGR4? Does it have Nordschleife? I hear the graphics, sounds and weather effects/night driving is pretty sick? I'm willing to put up with straightforward physics I suppose....

 

[Speedster911]

Neither Forza nor Gran Turismo even have realistic enough physics for someone to "know" any track without having driven on it before. I wouldn't necessarily trust anyone claiming proficiency on a track based only on GT/Forza experience, even if they were a good driver in general. You can learn the sequence of corners but you can't learn much more than that.

As for the Nordschleife, when I went in 2005 it seemed "larger" than in a videogame and at 18 years old it was pretty daunting for me, but the biggest difference was the obvious introduction of G-forces, particularly the incline at Fuchsröhre trying to pull your head into your chest.

Quick word on physics: Forza is the closest you'll get to driving a real car at high speeds, on a console. Trust me, nothing else on a console (so far) compares to real life high-speed driving the way Forza does. That's that.

 

[Wolfe]

@Speedster911 -- Enthusia Professional Racing is significantly more natural and intuitive in my opinion. But without getting into that, I'm not sure why Forza being the "best" on a console so far excuses it from the fact that it's too far from reality to educate someone on the nuances of tackling a real-life racetrack. EPR isn't that much better either because its rendition of the Nordschleife is very smooth (although Tsukuba is short and simple enough that given the countless virtual laps I've done, I'd feel quite confident giving a car a high-speed run after a slow preview lap).

You don't seem to like it when I point out that FM4 isn't the bee's knees in physics simulation, but it's kind of a plain fact. Maybe FM5 now rivals the best PC sims, but I'll see for myself when I get a chance at it.

 

[azrael1965]

You can learn the sequence of corners but you can't learn much more than that.

I claimed nothing more. Even a professional rally driver has a codriver telling him what corner is coming up next. To know in which gear you are supposed to be in the next corner is quite helpful. But a inboard video of a driving instructor making comments might be even better for that or a combination of both.
At least that is what I would advice someone who is planning to go on a Touristenfahrt on the Nordschleife. But sure to experience it in real life is something completly different. What I don't understand is why someone who has been there in real life would prefer a less accurate version of it in a simulation type game. I liked the PGR Version too until I really went there.

 

[Speedster911]

@Speedster911 -- Enthusia Professional Racing is significantly more natural and intuitive in my opinion. But without getting into that, I'm not sure why Forza being the "best" on a console so far excuses it from the fact that it's too far from reality to educate someone on the nuances of tackling a real-life racetrack. EPR isn't that much better either because its rendition of the Nordschleife is very smooth (although Tsukuba is short and simple enough that given the countless virtual laps I've done, I'd feel quite confident giving a car a high-speed run after a slow preview lap).

You don't seem to like it when I point out that FM4 isn't the bee's knees in physics simulation, but it's kind of a plain fact. Maybe FM5 now rivals the best PC sims, but I'll see for myself when I get a chance at it.

The bee's knees it ain't, but it certainly makes for an interesting experience *on current gen consoles*. Anybody who's looking for a realistic driving experience, or come to terms with some basic fundamentals of cornering, braking, understeer/oversteer etc. FM4 delivers a nice "overall" package.

I have a feeling these T10 guys are capable of a heckuva lot more than meets the eye. Then that problem comes of making the product accessible and we pure sim-lovers get the short end.

BTW, I was watching a video of Asseta Corsa. Very interesting. Looks like FM5 is really going to get a run for its money in the coming years, unless T10 step up their game.

 

[JuiceMcGoose]

It's a matter of principal. Right and wrong. MS made Xbox 1 to not work with the old Xbox steering wheels so people would have to buy new wheels. So I will never buy another Xbox.

 

[Speedster911]

The minus $100 price tag on the PS4 ain't a bad deal at all...

 

[PzR Slim]

It's a matter of principal. Right and wrong. MS made Xbox 1 to not work with the old Xbox steering wheels so people would have to buy new wheels. So I will never buy another Xbox.

How far do these 'principles' go. Every big business in the world is screwing something out of someone, wether it's their customers, or low paid workers in the far east, or the tax man. So do you selectively choose which big business your going to boycott as a matter of principal or do you refuse to buy from them all?

 

[Imari]

How far do these 'principles' go. Every big business in the world is screwing something out of someone, wether it's their customers, or low paid workers in the far east, or the tax man. So do you selectively choose which big business your going to boycott as a matter of principal or do you refuse to buy from them all?

For me it extends about as far as my current wheel lasts. I'm not buying a second wheel for Xbone, but the TX looks like a quality product so I'd be happy to buy one (or it's successor) when I need a replacement. At the point that I have a compatible wheel, it'll become worthwhile me buying an Xbox and the whole wheel problem will be moot.

I wouldn't go out of my way to not buy MS's box, but likewise I'm not going out of my way to jump through the hoops that they've put in the way. Had my CSR worked with Xbone I'd probably have one now. As it stands they'll get my money at some indeterminate point in the future.

 

[Mazyata]

I think people should not get confused between a hater and a person that is passionate. The facts and evidence is there and people don't like what they see. How can people turn their backs on their fellow gamers and side with MS? Progression slows down when people are willing to accept this BS. Let people speak their minds and if these higher up people listen then it is good for all of us. Way better than bending over and taking every little nonsense MS tries to stick it to you. Keeps your pride and dignity intact for another day too. May not seem much to others but I am glad that I avoided buying anything else on Forza Horizon. That was when I felt that they made it quite obvious and too bad that mentality continued to FM5.

Eventually I will get an X1 and FM. Buy that time it may be cheaper and FM would be a 100% game and not half assed. Hopefully there are other lower cost wheels in the market too since I can't even use my own wheels. It's just a steering wheel with pedals, why in the flippin hell I can't use it?! FM5 and MS is too technologically advance to make wheels just go left and right and brake and accelerate? That's gonna cost ya $400 on the low end to do that.

But I do understand those the do like the game. I love FM4 and FM5 looks really really good. There are main things I like that puts me on the side with Forza instead of GT. But the whole cash grab thing is hard to swallow. You die hard MS people wouldn't understand.

 

[IceMan PJN]

I've only read some of the first and the last handful of posts here, but...

Forza 5 Is A Major Dissapointment

Not really. Sure, I miss some of the tracks and features we've lost, but I'm happy with my purchase. I have no regrets about buying this game. If I could hop back in time and do things differently, I'd still have went ahead with my pre-order of the LCE version of FM5 and still waited at the store to buy Xbox One at midnight.

 

[RC45]

All it does is increase the authenticity of it, which is fine because that's the whole point behind it being represented in a game. It doesn't really change the point that people shouldn't be "training on GT5" to learn the track, though.

Actually, many of us that track cars in real life DO use virtual versions of tracks as prep for track days and even race weekends.

Granted for local Texas/OK tracks rFactor is the only choice, but the rFactor versions of MSR Houston, Motor Sports Ranch, Hallet, Texas World Speedway and Eagles Canyon are very well made and very representative of the real tracks.

Turning virtual laps in a realistic game with proper representations of cars and tracks is an invaluable tool. Having 250 laps under your bet before you even see a track in real life is very helpful.

Key is that the tracks need to be properly represented and sadly the Nurburgring has never been properly modeled in any Xbox game.

 

[Imari]

Actually, many of us that track cars in real life DO use virtual versions of tracks as prep for track days and even race weekends.

Granted for local Texas/OK tracks rFactor is the only choice, but the rFactor versions of MSR Houston, Motor Sports Ranch, Hallet, Texas World Speedway and Eagles Canyon are very well made and very representative of the real tracks.

Turning virtual laps in a realistic game with proper representations of cars and tracks is an invaluable tool. Having 250 laps under your bet before you even see a track in real life is very helpful.

Key is that the tracks need to be properly represented and sadly the Nurburgring has never been properly modeled in any Xbox game.

I tend to agree. Before I went to my first track day at Phillip Island I did a hundred or so laps around the iRacing version in a similar car.

It didn't mean that I was up to speed straight away, but it did mean that I wasn't getting confused by what corner was coming next, I had a reasonable idea of the major tricky bits of the circuit where I'd have trouble, and I knew roughly where to brake for each corner.

After that it was dialing into my own car and the conditions on the day, but the game definitely helped settle me in quicker and make me safer. There's a lot of basic knowledge that can be learned in a sim, so that you can dedicate your time on track to learning the things that can only be done in real life.

 

[UKMikey]

I think people should not get confused between a hater and a person that is passionate. The facts and evidence is there and people don't like what they see. How can people turn their backs on their fellow gamers and side with MS? Progression slows down when people are willing to accept this BS.

[...]

But I do understand those the do like the game. I love FM4 and FM5 looks really really good. There are main things I like that puts me on the side with Forza instead of GT. But the whole cash grab thing is hard to swallow. You die hard MS people wouldn't understand.

I think people should not get confused between people who want to play a decent next-gen racer this side of Christmas and die hard MS people. Had I a racing wheel or if DriveClub been available at PS4 launch it might've been a different story. If anything I'm more of a Forza person than an MS person since I wouldn't've gone near XBone if not for the game.

 

[Mazyata]

That is totally understandable. I myself find it very disappointing about the path they took because I really like FM4. The things I see and hear about FM5 is impressive. I KNOW I would enjoy and love FM5! But I also know that I would still acknowledge the tactics and their agenda. It will not go away or be ignored. From what I see from die hard fans or people that have nothing bad to say or defends them at all costs. I have to give props to Europeans for calling them out in some of their reviews. As for Murican reviews there is not one peep in any review about this. What shills we are. Not saying that you are one of them but there are a lot of people that have no clue what is going on and supports MS's and T10's practices while attacking the people that are calling them out of shady business practices.

You would think that those that called them out should get some appreciation or a thanks that they care and want games to be better. Instead the fanboys attack them and side with corporations that continues these tactics towards consumers.

Nobody likes getting duped. I am sure the fanboys wouldn't like it too. But it seems to be a double standard somewhere that when it comes to videogames it is okay for letting wrong things happen? This is where I draw my line but for others it is different or no lines at all.

It just what is behind that is why I don't like and how fanboys and accountants and greed have an influence on how the game turned out. Having those people in charge will not benefit for us gamers.

 

[HAL20XX]

*snip*

Agreed. We all understand that no matter the developer, they're running a business, and any business needs to make a profit to stay alive. The difference here is that they're making it painfully obvious (or giving us the impression thereof) that they're here to make money and little else. I'll admit, it did not stop me from buying Forza 5 because I truly like the series, but it is disheartening to see such a "dollars and cents" skew on the series. The same goes for GT6 since I've never considered that series a cash grab until microtransactions were introduced.

 

[UKMikey]

Well, I finally got to play the game last night and some of the scenery looks like cardboard cutouts. Check out the buses and Tower Bridge on this "London advanced simulation" track.



Actually I was laughing so hard when the wheelie bins came up it was difficult to stay on the track. All they need now is a fleet of cardboard VW Samba buses to knock over.

 

[symo63]

Just played the demo of Forza 5 at EB Games and I must say I was impressed. The graphics looked great and the handling was similar to FM4. Can't wait to get a Xbox One and Forza 5. Loved it!

 

[UKMikey]

Just played the demo of Forza 5 at EB Games and I must say I was impressed. The graphics looked great and the handling was similar to FM4. Can't wait to get a Xbox One and Forza 5. Loved it!

I'm glad the demo booths are starting to show up now. I think the game will attract more passing trade once people can see it without the horrible compression in YouTube.

 

[Brend]

Neither Forza nor Gran Turismo even have realistic enough physics for someone to "know" any track without having driven on it before. I wouldn't necessarily trust anyone claiming proficiency on a track based only on GT/Forza experience, even if they were a good driver in general. You can learn the sequence of corners but you can't learn much more than that.

As for the Nordschleife, when I went in 2005 it seemed "larger" than in a videogame and at 18 years old it was pretty daunting for me, but the biggest difference was the obvious introduction of G-forces, particularly the incline at Fuchsröhre trying to pull your head into your chest.

The best example of the difference in my opinion, pre-scripted nonsense Top Gear goodness.