Forza 5 physics vs GT6 аnd other sims

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Indeed GTHEAD87; I can play for hours and hours on the same track, just trying to improve my lap with the Thrustmaster, I have about a 20 minute attention span using the pad :). I REALLY wish they would allow the pad to be active at the same time though; its necessary for things like taking photos and such.
 
Still feels like my car has plastic tyres on the back when driving a bone stock car :(

When will they realise a car in a stable constant speed, constant radius corner just doesn't step out and slide like that. It's been the same since forza 2 now.

ABS off seems much more difficult now too, it seems to follow the GT5 philosophy of even 20% pressure causing a lock up which is messed up.

From what I've seen so far there's just far too much unprovoked oversteer still at pretty much no matter what the speed but then as soon as you enter a slide they're completely stable.

I found myself driving as if I was on cross-plys which whilst fun shouldn't be how it is and got fairly annoying after an hour.
 
For a fact, the triggers' range of motion have been shortened for the Xbox One. That's one contributing factor. It may have been shortened for the analog sticks as well. Contributing factor # 2.

Try playing around with the deadzones.

I used to have the same problem in FM4.. brakes jamming up, tail suddenly stepping out.

Here's what I did:

- Increased the max range for steering, throttle and braking to 100%
- Set deadzone for all three at *zero*.
- These settings make the controls more sensitive to your inputs, and you're essentially looking at a wider range of motion for all 3 inputs. What this means to you the driver, is that you have more control over your car by making intricate adjustments.

This should help, cheers!

If it doesn't, you can always go back to FM4!
:rolleyes:
 
Speedster911
For a fact, the triggers' range of motion have been shortened for the Xbox One. That's one contributing factor. It may have been shortened for the analog sticks as well. Contributing factor # 2.

Try playing around with the deadzones.

I used to have the same problem in FM4.. brakes jamming up, tail suddenly stepping out.

Here's what I did:

- Increased the max range for steering, throttle and braking to 100%
- Set deadzone for all three at *zero*.
- These settings make the controls more sensitive to your inputs, and you're essentially looking at a wider range of motion for all 3 inputs. What this means to you the driver, is that you have more control over your car by making intricate adjustments.

This should help, cheers!

If it doesn't, you can always go back to FM4!
:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I always did it the difference is night and day.
 
Speedster911
For a fact, the triggers' range of motion have been shortened for the Xbox One. That's one contributing factor. It may have been shortened for the analog sticks as well. Contributing factor # 2.

Try playing around with the deadzones.

I used to have the same problem in FM4.. brakes jamming up, tail suddenly stepping out.

Here's what I did:

- Increased the max range for steering, throttle and braking to 100%
- Set deadzone for all three at *zero*.
- These settings make the controls more sensitive to your inputs, and you're essentially looking at a wider range of motion for all 3 inputs. What this means to you the driver, is that you have more control over your car by making intricate adjustments.

This should help, cheers!

If it doesn't, you can always go back to FM4!
:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I didn't think to do that, cheers :)

I was only really so surprised by it because I never used to suffer the same issues on 2,3 or 4 all of which I played both with a pad or wheel regularly (I play with a pad when I'm at uni and a wheel when I'm at home).

But I'll give it a go and see if it's any better, I did have a lot better time once I did some tweeking to the geometry of my MR2 (little bit of toe-in at the rear and some negative camber to make it less twitchy and more stable in the high speed corners), the starting RX-8 was awful to say the least though.

Overall though I very much like it as a racing game, I prefer the driving on GT6 (although to be honest that's poor with a pad too and only good with a wheel) but as I've always said forza does a much better job of capturing a racing situation and the driveatar only improves that in my eyes.
 
thechosenwonton
I REALLY wish they would allow the pad to be active at the same time though; its necessary for things like taking photos and such.
Click to expand...
Quite the annoyance indeed, but seeing that wheel users are a minority nobody seemed to have thought about an idea like this...
Just make the 2nd user active for menu's and problem = solved!
 
Tiddy
Still feels like my car has plastic tyres on the back when driving a bone stock car :(

When will they realise a car in a stable constant speed, constant radius corner just doesn't step out and slide like that. It's been the same since forza 2 now.

ABS off seems much more difficult now too, it seems to follow the GT5 philosophy of even 20% pressure causing a lock up which is messed up.

From what I've seen so far there's just far too much unprovoked oversteer still at pretty much no matter what the speed but then as soon as you enter a slide they're completely stable.

I found myself driving as if I was on cross-plys which whilst fun shouldn't be how it is and got fairly annoying after an hour.
Click to expand...


That's not how a sim works. The sim doesn't say okay were going to step out here or oversteer there. Its simply measuring forces, weight, traction, so on and so on. If something isn't right (and it never is in ANY sim) the only way to fix it is to find out whats missing or wrong in the physics simulation. Something that is VERY hard to do. If they just changed it for that circumstance, it would ruin other areas of the game.
 
SlyNine
That's not how a sim works. The sim doesn't say okay were going to step out here or oversteer there. Its simply measuring forces, weight, traction, so on and so on. If something isn't right (and it never is in ANY sim) the only way to fix it is to find out whats missing or wrong in the physics simulation. Something that is VERY hard to do. If they just changed it for that circumstance, it would ruin other areas of the game.
Click to expand...

That's how sim's work yes but the curiosity I have with it is that it seems nigh on impossible to keep the car from stepping out, I can go round any corner and be 100% certain I will have an opposite lock moment if I'm going at even 60% despite holding a constant radius and speed. Yet as soon as the car enters the slide a strange thing happens, it seems to almost immediately stabilise and 'lock' into a constant radius no matter what, that would be great if I was using cross-plys but I'm pretty sure I'm not.

I'm sure if I get to drive either of the '76 GP cars I'll find them fantastic with a tyre model like that but for modern radial equipped road cars it just seems wrong and I've never experienced a moment like that on any game other than forza and never in real life whether it be in go karts or on track.

It will never be perfect and I understand that but I find it odd that this behaviour is still present after 5 iterations.

@PHIBALNATION , I hate that attitude of 'It's a game' just the same as I hate the 'I only have to pass' attitude, if everybody thought like that we'd still live in caves.
 
^^ Mate, make sure all your assists are off. Play around with the deadzone and max range settings. Is there a SIM setting in FM5 too? That probably needs to stay on irrespective of whether you're using a wheel or not.

Remember how the transition from FM3 to 4 was physics wise? We had to get used to the new physics.. you gotta love the learning curve in these Forza games.

Be patient. Maybe Microsoft will release an updated controller with wider range axis for both steering and throttle/braking. It's on a lot of forums now - people complaining about the controller having little range of motion compared to the X360 controller. Pity the hardware isn't backward compatible.
 
Yep all assists off always :-)

I'll have a play about more over the weekend, I found that usually the behaviour can be tweaked out in setup but I've not had the chance to have a proper play with setup on FM5 yet.

I agree I could do with more practice with the pad too, as it's the only game I play on xbox one I haven't used the pad much. It's also worth noting I'm much more used to using a wheel than a pad with these games but I did do ok using the pad online in FM4.
 
Tiddy
That's how sim's work yes but the curiosity I have with it is that it seems nigh on impossible to keep the car from stepping out, I can go round any corner and be 100% certain I will have an opposite lock moment if I'm going at even 60% despite holding a constant radius and speed. Yet as soon as the car enters the slide a strange thing happens, it seems to almost immediately stabilise and 'lock' into a constant radius no matter what, that would be great if I was using cross-plys but I'm pretty sure I'm not.

I'm sure if I get to drive either of the '76 GP cars I'll find them fantastic with a tyre model like that but for modern radial equipped road cars it just seems wrong and I've never experienced a moment like that on any game other than forza and never in real life whether it be in go karts or on track.

It will never be perfect and I understand that but I find it odd that this behaviour is still present after 5 iterations.

@PHIBALNATION , I hate that attitude of 'It's a game' just the same as I hate the 'I only have to pass' attitude, if everybody thought like that we'd still live in caves.
Click to expand...

I'm sure this should make perfect sense to me. But could you clarify.
 
I'm seriously debating if I should pick up the Thrustmaster wheel (Best Buy now carries it and I have about $100 in reward zone points to use). Something tells me PCARS would be severely lacking without it.
 
I hope the physics in PCARS turn out to at least match the standard set by Forza. I'm ignoring the rumors that it's "simcade leaning toward arcade" or "NFS Shift 3" because it's pointless to pass judgment or make comparisons until the game is nearer to completion. I hear the physics are changing pretty frequently these days, and it depends on which car you drive.

In the end, as long as it's fun and not distractingly quirky, I'll still enjoy playing it.
 
Wolfe
I hope the physics in PCARS turn out to at least match the standard set by Forza. I'm ignoring the rumors that it's "simcade leaning toward arcade" or "NFS Shift 3" because it's pointless to pass judgment or make comparisons until the game is nearer to completion. I hear the physics are changing pretty frequently these days, and it depends on which car you drive.

In the end, as long as it's fun and not distractingly quirky, I'll still enjoy playing it.
Click to expand...

When I first seen Pcars. I thought it looked like a joke. But more and more its looking like a game I'd like to play.
 
SlyNine: my sentiments exactly. Point to be noted though: a driving game and/or sim ought to sound and drive as good as it looks.

Ethan_777: looks like Shift 2.. as in the graphics? If so, far from it.

Wolfe: I'm hoping it boasts a lot more realism and more focus on serious driving and the actual thrill of motor sport rather than just making another "accessible" game for car lovers and racing game fanatics all over. If that turns out to be the case, might as well just get FM5.

But then again, if I'm getting my hands on an "XBONE", might as well get both and get a little shelf life outta dem!
 
The controller patch improved the steering significantly!
Its fantastic now!
You can drive it smooth like with a wheel now!

Now they only need to update the controller itself.
So we can get the feeling of friction that gt6 gives! THAT in itself makes gt6 much better then f5, you just enjoy it more, even though f5 is without doubt the more impressive.
 
Sydbom
The controller patch improved the steering significantly!
Its fantastic now!
You can drive it smooth like with a wheel now!

Now they only need to update the controller itself.
So we can get the feeling of friction that gt6 gives! THAT in itself makes gt6 much better then f5, you just enjoy it more, even though f5 is without doubt the more impressive.
Click to expand...
Tell me, how do I get "friction" in GT6?
 
Sydbom
The controller patch improved the steering significantly!
Its fantastic now!
You can drive it smooth like with a wheel now!

Now they only need to update the controller itself.
So we can get the feeling of friction that gt6 gives! THAT in itself makes gt6 much better then f5, you just enjoy it more, even though f5 is without doubt the more impressive.
Click to expand...
I'm curious, how do you feel this friction in the controller on GT6?
 
Sydbom
The controller patch improved the steering significantly!
Its fantastic now!
You can drive it smooth like with a wheel now!

Now they only need to update the controller itself.
So we can get the feeling of friction that gt6 gives! THAT in itself makes gt6 much better then f5, you just enjoy it more, even though f5 is without doubt the more impressive.
Click to expand...

I've never played another game that does a better job with sensing friction than Forza 5 with impulse triggers.
 
Indeed, chalk me up as falling into the same camp; my biggest complaint with controller play between the two series is GT's utter lack of feedback. GT6's over-light controller is possibly the worst yet - there's no real message provided for what sort of grip levels the tires are experiencing.
 
SlipZtrEm
Indeed, chalk me up as falling into the same camp; my biggest complaint with controller play between the two series is GT's utter lack of feedback. GT6's over-light controller is possibly the worst yet - there's no real message provided for what sort of grip levels the tires are experiencing.
Click to expand...
I knew it couldn't just be me with that problem. Maybe I'm just imagining it, but I swear GT5 had at least a little feedback, unlike GT6.
 
Well I just tell it like I feel it.
I hardly play forza 5 since gt6 is much more "grounded" and gives better presence.
But f5 is the more impressive game in almost all ways.
But the sticks lacks resistance, so you dont get the sense of actually moving something in the game, and that makes it less involving, like driving a car with a lot of servoassistance.
I have never liked the ps3 controllers analogue sticks but they are sadly better than the one vontroller in this department.
And the games are totally different in how they simulate tire vs road behavior and the gt6 way is on some of the cars fantastic fun and involving.
F5 is a deeper experience in every way but lacks that involvment that gt6 has with the tarmac, and that is very rewarding and make me play gt6 much much more.
Its sad since f5 really is the more fantastic game for all the other senses.
 
I'm going with VXR on that. Even though I don't own FM5, I've played it a few times briefly at my mate's.

FM5 simply betters all aspects of physics that were brilliantly represented in FM4.
 

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