Forza 6 Demo Sept 1

[FordGTGuy]

It's not that either. I can be going 20 mph around certain turns and it won't turn in, unless, like @Speedster911 , you slow down to a crawl, and then bam out of nowhere it finally goes full lock. It's not me, it's a glitch.

I've never experienced this, what settings do you use?

I'd love to recreate this so we can find out what is going on.

I run:

Simulation Steering, no ABS, no TCS, no STM and manual w/ clutch.

Could it be a problem with normal steering?

 

[mrPetros]

It's not that either. I can be going 20 mph around certain turns and it won't turn in, unless, like @Speedster911 , you slow down to a crawl, and then bam out of nowhere it finally goes full lock. It's not me, it's a glitch.

I have made plenty of test in the past (back2back wheel/joypad/normal/sim), when I was trying to figure out myself how their system works.
the way I understand it, when you are giving instruction that will cause to lose steering traction (ie going 60 and turning all the way left/right, the assist system kicks in allowing you to turn the most possible without car's steering wheels losing traction (and go straight instead of turning as result))
its very easy to test, just bring up the telemetry's first window and test watching how the dot and circle behave.
as the speed lessens and the front grip increases, the turning trajectory will decrease.
if you are talking about something different, if you can record it, it would help me understand.

again I say, if you use a wheel and sim steering settings, you are left free to your own wishes.

 

[Ialyrn]

Hmm right..it does happen that way if you lock up the brakes. However, we were talking about braking hard and trying to have a decent amount of turn in as you get ready to hit the apex. Just doesn't happen in Forza; the driver doesn't go to the desired lock level (not full lock), unless you ease off the brakes completely and slow down to what the game feels is appropriate... THEN you get front tire bite.

It's wrong in some ways, and players should have more steering freedom on the pad.

I believe they have improved this in FM6, though the cap on steering with a pad remains. Would be very nice to have 100% unassisted steering on the pad and leave everything up to skill.

Sounds to me as though you are just braking too hard and too late. But even then, it is very possible to trail brake in Forza. and it is fairly easy to do. But you have to be smooth with all your inputs. If you are just going into a corner and slamming the brakes on as hard as possible without locking them up, then all you are doing is shifting all of the cars weight forward. Which will cause the effect you are talking about here.

@Fat Tyre asked me in a pm why I can be so quick in Forza, and this is why I can be. Because I apply my inputs as smooth as possible, and I brake light but early to keep the car balanced.

@ImaRobot Does your issue happen when using the controller in wireless or wired mode? It sounds to me as though something is interfering with the 2.4GHz wireless signal the controller uses to communicate with the Xbox. I never have this issues at all.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Sounds to me as though you are just braking too hard and too late. But even then, it is very possible to trail brake in Forza. and it is fairly easy to do. But you have to be smooth with all your inputs. If you are just going into a corner and slamming the brakes on as hard as possible without locking them up, then all you are doing is shifting all of the cars weight forward. Which will cause the effect you are talking about here.

@Fat Tyre asked me in a pm why I can be so quick in Forza, and this is why I can be. Because I apply my inputs as smooth as possible, and I brake light but early to keep the car balanced.

@ImaRobot Does your issue happen when using the controller in wireless or wired mode? It sounds to me as though something is interfering with the 2.4GHz wireless signal the controller uses to communicate with the Xbox. I never have this issues at all.

To expand on this, Turn 10 said AI will also now trail brake in Forza Motorsport 6; something they did not do before.

 

[Fat Tyre]

I apply my inputs as smooth as possible, and I brake light but early to keep the car balanced.

Thank you! So in a way it's a delicate coasting technique? Could you do a video showing the telemetry?

 

[ImaRobot]

I've never experienced this, what settings do you use?

I'd love to recreate this so we can find out what is going on.

I run:

Simulation Steering, no ABS, no TCS, no STM and manual w/ clutch.

Could it be a problem with normal steering?

The only thing different that I run, is that I use Normal steering. I'll try to DVR some instances later today, as it happens alot on Nurburgring(or its possible that I just race that track so much, that's why I notice it more on that track.)

I have made plenty of test in the past (back2back wheel/joypad/normal/sim), when I was trying to figure out myself how their system works.
the way I understand it, when you are giving instruction that will cause to lose steering traction (ie going 60 and turning all the way left/right, the assist system kicks in allowing you to turn the most possible without car's steering wheels losing traction (and go straight instead of turning as result))
its very easy to test, just bring up the telemetry's first window and test watching how the dot and circle behave.
as the speed lessens and the front grip increases, the turning trajectory will decrease.
if you are talking about something different, if you can record it, it would help me understand.

again I say, if you use a wheel and sim steering settings, you are left free to your own wishes.

It's not any of this either.

You seem to not comprehend what I'm saying. It forces me to go so unreasonably slow around a turn its ridiculous. Not only that, but it's not a loss of traction. I have full traction going into the turn, It's just not turning. When this happens I am full lock on my controller, but the car is just understeering unnaturally and until I slow down to speeds that are well under what I can take, then all of a sudden the driver for some reason lets itself turn the wheel a bit more. It's as if the controller is not transmitting it at full lock, but rather 1/2, or even 1/4.

@ImaRobot Does your issue happen when using the controller in wireless or wired mode? It sounds to me as though something is interfering with the 2.4GHz wireless signal the controller uses to communicate with the Xbox. I never have this issues at all.

This is the only thing that sounds logical concerning the issue. I only use a wireless controller.

An example I can give is imagine driving a car in a straight line, and you see a turn coming up. You are going just slow enough to get around the turn without having to slow down that would cause neither understeer, nor oversteer instances. You go in to turn, but for some reason it seems like it's only going to half lock. This is exactly what's happening to me.

@Ialyrn concerning the weight shifting you're talking about, I also thought it was that at first. Although the instance goes away deep into the turn where the weight transfer should gradually wain off. This is like an off and on switch as soon as it goes away. All of a sudden your car turns so much more that it'll throw you off track. I've been playing this long enough, and I'm competent enough with it, that I feel that this is some sort of bug.

 

[mrPetros]

It's not any of this either.

You seem to not comprehend what I'm saying. It forces me to go so unreasonably slow around a turn its ridiculous. Not only that, but it's not a loss of traction. I have full traction going into the turn, It's just not turning. When this happens I am full lock on my controller, but the car is just understeering unnaturally and until I slow down to speeds that are well under what I can take, then all of a sudden the driver for some reason lets itself turn the wheel a bit more. It's as if the controller is not transmitting it at full lock, but rather 1/2, or even 1/4.

dvr your settings and an example when you can.
"full lock on controller" is what they are trying to fix for the player.
if you were driving a car, you'd never turn the wheel fully while in speed to turn. would you?
in-car we drive analogue and with caution (our butt sweats, instinct for life etc)
in games, many tend to be 100% digital (full throttle or no throttle, full left or no left etc)
even worse, many tend to shift to opposites again in digital manner (from full throttle to full brake, from full left to full right)

 

[ImaRobot]

dvr your settings and an example when you can.
"full lock on controller" is what they are trying to fix.
if you were driving a car, you'd never turn the wheel fully while in speed to turn. would you?

You seem to not be reading, or understanding what I'm saying.

The wheel has alot more room to turn, and I know this. It just doesn't let it happen. It happens mostly in slow speed cornering, like I've mentioned in my post. I even made an example;

An example I can give is imagine driving a car in a straight line, and you see a turn coming up. You are going just slow enough to get around the turn without having to slow down that would cause neither understeer, nor oversteer instances. You go in to turn, but for some reason it seems like it's only going to half lock. This is exactly what's happening to me.

When I say half lock, I'm talking about the amount actually permitted by the turn and speed you're going. Not half of full on lock.

 

[mrPetros]

I read, but unless you get this to happen on other games too(example in COD you turn fully and joypad turns only little) then its not your joypad.
thats why I said to dvr it when you can.

 

[ImaRobot]

I read, but unless you get this to happen on other games too(example in COD you turn fully and joypad turns only little) then its not your joypad.
thats why I said to dvr it when you can.

I don't play any other games that require me to be as intricate on the controls as this, so I would not notice it probably. Even if I can't get it to happen on other games this would just all but show that this is a glitch isolated to this game.

EDIT: Actually, I have PCars, and this has not once happened on that game.

Another thing I just remembered about it, is that I'm not switching or jolting movements back and forth, i'm not braking and gassing sporadically. My stick is pushed as far left as I can, and the problem still happens and continue's down the exact same path whether I am on the throttle, or just letting it coast through the turn. The fact that the problems disappears as if someone just flicked a switch, just makes me think it's nothing related to physics, but rather an error with the game.

 

[Ialyrn]

Thank you! So in a way it's a delicate coasting technique? Could you do a video showing the telemetry?

I don't have the time atm to do one in FM5, but I will see if I can get on done tonight. Or possibly in FM6 tomorrow. For now though, this will have to suffice. They videos of mine from FM4, but the way I drive in Forza has not changed from FM1 through FM5 anyway. So they are relevant to what you are asking.







This one is in a stock S15 on the ring in a C class hopper race. The cars I am racing against where both built/tuned to the top of C class.



I wouldn't say it is a delicate coasting technique I use, as most of the time I left foot brake (including on a G27 wheel on the PC racers I play, even when using clutch and H pattern shifter). And usually keeping some throttle on. Anytime that I am 100% off the throttle, it will only be for a few milliseconds. My driving style in Forza, and other racing games for that matter, relies heavily on my ability to rotate the rear of the car. I am very oversteer focused in that sense. This works both for and against me, as it means I can mess it up and end up facing the wrong way. More so if I get a knock from behind like in that last video near the end, which upsets the balance of my car, which upsets my driving style. This also has the knock on effect of me barely having to steer in a lot of corners, as I am using the rear end, and the throttle, to rotate the car. I am essentially drifting (to a point) most of the corners I take, and I even do this in Pcars, Assetto Corsa, and Iracing. It allows me to keep my steering inputs smooth. It is why I can more often than not keep my driving line fairly tight. Most of the races I have won in Forza, have not been down to me going fast, but being consistent in my ability to drive fast. I think I got so consistent from driving cars stock around the ring, and I have done that since GT4 and FM1. Most times when I got into a hotlapping or tuning session, I would often be doing 7+ laps on the ring in one go.

In any racing game, there is 2 types of fast driver. There are one lap alien fast, which is good for the leaderboards. Then there is consistent fast, where they can do multiple fast laps consecutively, and be within a 300ms+- of their fastest lap time.

Anyway, I hope that helped.

I don't play any other games that require me to be as intricate on the controls as this, so I would not notice it probably. Even if I can't get it to happen on other games this would just all but show that this is a glitch isolated to this game.

EDIT: Actually, I have PCars, and this has not once happened on that game.

Another thing I just remembered about it, is that I'm not switching or jolting movements back and forth, i'm not braking and gassing sporadically. My stick is pushed as far left as I can, and the problem still happens and continue's down the exact same path whether I am on the throttle, or just letting it coast through the turn. The fact that the problems disappears as if someone just flicked a switch, just makes me think it's nothing related to physics, but rather an error with the game.

I don't know what is going on at yours or @Speedster911 end, but in 10 years of playing Forza; I have never once had this issue you are describing. But I very rarely have the thumbstick pinned all the way left or right, and only apply what I need at the time. Only time I do go full left/right, is when I am drifting. So perhaps this is why I don't notice it, if it is an issue with the game. I am very careful with my inputs in forza though, as you can see in the videos above. All I would suggest is buying a decent and long enough Micro USB cable, and try with the controller in wired mode. When the controller is plugged in via USB, it turns off the wireless radios and transmits all the data via USB. Also make sure you have the controllers firmware up to date.

 

[Speedster911]

Sounds to me as though you are just braking too hard and too late. But even then, it is very possible to trail brake in Forza. and it is fairly easy to do. But you have to be smooth with all your inputs. If you are just going into a corner and slamming the brakes on as hard as possible without locking them up, then all you are doing is shifting all of the cars weight forward. Which will cause the effect you are talking about here.

@Fat Tyre asked me in a pm why I can be so quick in Forza, and this is why I can be. Because I apply my inputs as smooth as possible, and I brake light but early to keep the car balanced.

@ImaRobot Does your issue happen when using the controller in wireless or wired mode? It sounds to me as though something is interfering with the 2.4GHz wireless signal the controller uses to communicate with the Xbox. I never have this issues at all.

Okay...I'm not a novice driver, in fact, the next time I get Gold, I'd like to race you one-on-one. What I'm experiencing, or @ImaRobot or many others according to the official forums is not a lack of finesse or driving technique, but a strange anomaly you experience if you're not almost completely off the brakes. IRL, if the driver prefers to brake hard and start to ease off the brakes (as opposed to easing off completely), he still has the freedom to turn the wheel past 90 degrees or hit the 180 degree mark, if he so chooses. A wheel on Forza lets you do this, a controller doesn't. Why the developer won't leave it up to the player to deal with the consequences is beyond me.

I read, but unless you get this to happen on other games too(example in COD you turn fully and joypad turns only little) then its not your joypad.
thats why I said to dvr it when you can.

There is no need for a DVR. You can view the telemetry or even switch to the outside view and have the cam move around your cars when it's negotiating some of the hairpins at Nurb GP. Those are 50 to 60 km/h hairpins that can be taken with ease (minus the final chicane); however, on a controller, you're forced to slow down to 40 or 45 km/h to get a good wheel angle - this happens even if you're not dabbing the brakes. The driver just takes very long to go to the desired lock level. One way to cure this is to limit the outside steering deadzone, but then your car can feel twitchy when countering a slide.

I don't have the time atm to do one in FM5, but I will see if I can get on done tonight. Or possibly in FM6 tomorrow. For now though, this will have to suffice. They videos of mine from FM4, but the way I drive in Forza has not changed from FM1 through FM5 anyway. So they are relevant to what you are asking.

I don't know what is going on at yours or @Speedster911 end, but in 10 years of playing Forza; I have never once had this issue you are describing. But I very rarely have the thumbstick pinned all the way left or right, and only apply what I need at the time. Only time I do go full left/right, is when I am drifting. So perhaps this is why I don't notice it, if it is an issue with the game. I am very careful with my inputs in forza though, as you can see in the videos above. All I would suggest is buying a decent and long enough Micro USB cable, and try with the controller in wired mode. When the controller is plugged in via USB, it turns off the wireless radios and transmits all the data via USB. Also make sure you have the controllers firmware up to date.

Okay then; could you please shift to a standard controller, set steering to SIM, keep deads at 0/100 and then get back to us? Is the controller giving you as good a turn angle as the wheel does at the SAME speed? You'll find the results interesting.

And what you ask here is to open another rabbit hole: most players will not be even able to turn.
("HEY, I TURN THE JOYPAD ALL THE WAY, AND IT GOES SCREAMING STRAIGHT TO THE WALL!! FIX THIS **** T10" ;D)
and then, you have to ride another slippery-slope to further "fix" that => tone down the car-to-road physics too.

steering assistance in forza enters only on the brim of you ****in' it up anyway. its physics driven, not hard coded.
you are a skilled racing player and you want 100% unassisted steering no matter what? use a wheel and appropriate settings.


you mean high speed and no brakes full steering lock? well, you know the outcome of that, dont you?
but anyway, you can use a wheel and do that all day long if you like.
I think its understandable how some things have to be filtered in order to have an audience that exceeds iracing's playerbase.
see above about my "grief" for car-to-car shenanigans

No reason at all why devs can't leave it up to the player to either have full control on a pad (what's the use of SIM steering anyway?) or let them set it up the way it normally is - speed sensitive with cap on steering limit.

Furthermore, different levels of speed sensitive steering can easily be implemented. I also don't think users should be forced to buy a wheel in order to have complete freedom over steering.

Not everyone wants to spend money on a good wheel no matter how good it may be or improve the experience. A pad should have the same degree of control a wheel offers; or at least offer options to let it mimic a wheel; i.e. steering rack ratios... different levels of speed sensitivity, turning speed sensitivity on/off, lowering/increasing input filtering. In terms of customization, PCARS is king.

 

[Ialyrn]

Okay then; could you please shift to a standard controller, set steering to SIM, keep deads at 0/100 and then get back to us? Is the controller giving you as good a turn angle as the wheel does at the SAME speed? You'll find the results interesting.

How many times do I have to tell you this, I currently do not have a wheel that is compatible with the Xbox one!!!!!!.

I do have the wireless microsoft wheel for the Xbox 360, but I only use it for when I am tandem drifting in FM4. When I am just larking about on my own, or racing/hotlapping/tuning. Then I am using the default controller every single time, unless otherwise stated.

Back when I did have a TX wheel for FM5, my driving style, cornering speeds, corner angle and everything else. Was identical to when I was using the xbox one controller.

 

[ImaRobot]

I don't know what is going on at yours or @Speedster911 end, but in 10 years of playing Forza; I have never once had this issue you are describing. But I very rarely have the thumbstick pinned all the way left or right, and only apply what I need at the time. Only time I do go full left/right, is when I am drifting. So perhaps this is why I don't notice it, if it is an issue with the game. I am very careful with my inputs in forza though, as you can see in the videos above. All I would suggest is buying a decent and long enough Micro USB cable, and try with the controller in wired mode. When the controller is plugged in via USB, it turns off the wireless radios and transmits all the data via USB. Also make sure you have the controllers firmware up to date.

It could very possibly be that it's some kind of problem occurring from me having my stick fully one direction. The only hard part now is finding a cable long enough to give it a shot

Okay...I'm not a novice driver, in fact, the next time I get Gold, I'd like to race you one-on-one. What I'm experiencing, or @ImaRobot or many others according to the official forums is not a lack of finesse or driving technique, but a strange anomaly you experience if you're not almost completely off the brakes. IRL, if the driver prefers to brake hard and start to ease off the brakes (as opposed to easing off completely), he still has the freedom to turn the wheel past 90 degrees or hit the 180 degree mark, if he so chooses. A wheel on Forza lets you do this, a controller doesn't. Why the developer won't leave it up to the player to deal with the consequences is beyond me.

This could very well be it, I can't recall exactly when it happens, but I have noticed that it occurs during(or immediately after) braking turn in. @mrPetros Don't let this part confuse you, though. I do not lock my brakes, even though I have ABS off, and even if I did lock my brakes, like you said, I would be flying straight. What this feels like is as if you get the worst possible understeer in the world. Think of is as if you have a FWD car with a full Rear placed engine with an unrealistic amount of downforce on the rear, and then multiply it by 5.

Still, I'll try to see if I can jump on when I get home from work and record some instances. The worst I've ever had it was actually this past weekend, where the car literally did not turn one inch.

 

[ghost30]

Not to throw fuel on the fire.. but a lot of the guys on the official forza forums are expressing their disappointment with the ffb using a wheel.

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/turn10_postst40396_Cars-skidding-with-TX-wheel-and-the-demo.aspx

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/t...-Clubsport-V2-X1-HUB-poor-FFB-in-Forza-6.aspx

For whatever reason, there seems to be a minority here.. but at the official site, there is a bit of a stir. Anyway, I'm not trying to tell people to not enjoy the game. More power to you if you love it. However, there is clearly something wrong with how Force Feedback is implemented in this game.

 

[hardvibes]

Not to throw fuel on the fire.. but a lot of the guys on the official forza forums are expressing their disappointment with the ffb using a wheel.

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/turn10_postst40396_Cars-skidding-with-TX-wheel-and-the-demo.aspx

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/t...-Clubsport-V2-X1-HUB-poor-FFB-in-Forza-6.aspx

For whatever reason, there seems to be a minority here.. but at the official site, there is a bit of a stir. Anyway, I'm not trying to tell people to not enjoy the game. More power to you if you love it. However, there is clearly something wrong with how Force Feedback is implemented in this game.

T10 could fix the problem (and also the weak triggers rumble for gamepad users) with an update, right? PD did it a few times if I remember correctly.

 

[ImaRobot]

@Ialyrn @mrPetros @FordGTGuy

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/lImaRobotl/video/9111821

Only instance I encountered tonight, and it was more tamer than usual. Look at the wheel positioning as well as how well I turn in on the first try. On the second try you can see the it oddly under steering, even though the car is more capable of turning turning in, and also make special note of how the wheel all of a sudden just flicks and turns in out of no where. There was no corrections made either time, and my stick was full left the whole time.

 

[UPEO_Dision]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER_
Here's me getting my last best lap time in the demo in rivals mode in the Ford GT: 1:32.819

 

[SlipZtrEm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER_
Here's me getting my last best lap time in the demo in rivals mode in the Ford GT: 1:32.819

...I wouldn't necessarily call it your last.

 

[Speedster911]

How many times do I have to tell you this, I currently do not have a wheel that is compatible with the Xbox one!!!!!!.

I do have the wireless microsoft wheel for the Xbox 360, but I only use it for when I am tandem drifting in FM4. When I am just larking about on my own, or racing/hotlapping/tuning. Then I am using the default controller every single time, unless otherwise stated.

Back when I did have a TX wheel for FM5, my driving style, cornering speeds, corner angle and everything else. Was identical to when I was using the xbox one controller.

Well, you just told me that one more time, which I certainly appreciate.

"Back when I did have a TX wheel for FM5, my driving style, cornering speeds, corner angle and everything else. Was identical to when I was using the xbox one controller."

No offense, but I call complete BS on that, the turn angles are not identical to the controller; a wheel gives you more freedom with steering just like a real car. And the fact there's no cap on it helps with cornering abilities and throwing your harder around corners. Perhaps it was the way you had your wheel set up. You're the first person ever, who has said there's no difference between pad and wheel turn angles.

It could very possibly be that it's some kind of problem occurring from me having my stick fully one direction. The only hard part now is finding a cable long enough to give it a shot


This could very well be it, I can't recall exactly when it happens, but I have noticed that it occurs during(or immediately after) braking turn in. @mrPetros Don't let this part confuse you, though. I do not lock my brakes, even though I have ABS off, and even if I did lock my brakes, like you said, I would be flying straight. What this feels like is as if you get the worst possible understeer in the world. Think of is as if you have a FWD car with a full Rear placed engine with an unrealistic amount of downforce on the rear, and then multiply it by 5.

Still, I'll try to see if I can jump on when I get home from work and record some instances. The worst I've ever had it was actually this past weekend, where the car literally did not turn one inch.

Robot, here's how I fix it for the time being:

Inside steering dead: 12, outside: 75 (very important).

This helps your driver turn the wheel more, and goes lock to lock faster too. But it's a bit twitchy and takes getting used to. You'll even hear the front tires gripping more somewhat due to the friction/tire wear sounds.

As an experiment, you can also go back to the recommended standard: 0/100 and observe how the hands move on the wheel in cockpit cam.

This should definitely help, but requires patience and extra focus to get around the initial twitchiness and/or increased response.

 

[Ialyrn]

No offense, but I call complete BS on that, the turn angles are not identical to the controller; a wheel gives you more freedom with steering just like a real car. And the fact there's no cap on it helps with cornering abilities and throwing your harder around corners. Perhaps it was the way you had your wheel set up. You're the first person ever, who has said there's no difference between pad and wheel turn angles.

There was no difference to me, Speedster. Because I only used what I needed and nothing more. Too many people jump into a game when they first get a wheel, and do exactly what you want to do with the gamepad. Just add all the turning force possible, and then hope the car sticks. It just doesn't work like that. I have had my real life driving license for long enough to know it doesn't work like that. I also have a long enough history with using an analog controller for playing racing games with, to be able to drive very well on a game pad. And I have equally as much experience at playing racing games with a wheel. Growing up at a seaside tourist trap filled with massive gaming arcades, well it kind of gives you a leg up. I was playing Ridge Racer in the arcade with a H-pattern shifter and clutch; and long before Forza was even a pipe dream in Dan Greenawalt's eye. I have had a Microsoft Sidewinder force feedback steering wheel for my pc, and have had a couple of madcatz wheels over the years for PS2 and original Xbox, plus one on the 360 before I got the MS wireless ffb wheel.

The way I had my tx wheel set up was like this, 900° for ALL road cars. Somewhere around 540/560° for race cars, and around 360° for the lotus E21 and indy cars. I had exactly the same range of motion within forza that I have within Assetto Corsa, and used exactly the same in Forza with a wheel as I do currently in Assetto Corsa with a wheel. If I had GT6, then I would be doing exactly the same in that game also. Call BS all you want, that is your prerogative. As I have said to you before though, just because you have more freedom with a wheel, doesn't mean you use every single degree it has to offer. Set to 900°, you barely touch over 90° turns of the steering wheel left or right at the most. And if you bothered to watch the real world video I posted up for you last time, then you would see that is true to life. But I will post it up again.



"throwing your harder around corners" (I assume you mean throwing your car harder around corners?). Well, you don't want to be throwing your car hard around corners at all, it doesn't need it. It is also counter intuitive. What you need to be doing, with a wheel or a game pad, is teasing your car around the track. Driving a car fast is like trying to ice skate. I say this because you are essentially dancing on ice while driving fast. And it only takes a small mistake to have you in a tire wall. Just like a small mistake while ice skating can have you in a heap on the cold ice. So you start slow and easy, then you begin to build up and do more. But you need to be precise in your movements, and you need all your inputs to be smooth. This keeps the cars balance in check, which allows you to use all the available grip. If all you do is slam a ton of turning force on with the steering wheel at speed, just because you can, especially while breaking heavily. Then it will end in a mess, and you will be the slowest on track. This is why real racing drivers say things like "Smooth is fast", and "slow in, fast out". Then there is also the fact that if you have too much turn applied via the steering wheel, it makes it harder and slower to countersteer on the wheel. Which you need to do to correct the car if you mess it up.

You might not be a novice at Forza, and this message might come across as treating you as one. And I agree, I am talking to you as though you are a novice. The reason being is the twaddle you keep coming out with. Not only that, Speedster. But you continually ignore anything and everything that doesn't agree with your own opinion. Even when people post up proof that you are wrong, you still ignore it and spit your dummy (pacifier) out of the pram. You do not even post up any evidence to back up your claims, you get dismissive when you are asked to. And then you go away for a couple of days, only to return harking on about exactly the same rubbish. And you still do not post up any evidence to back up your claims, even though 2 moderators told you to do so less than 2 weeks ago!

As for this little problem yourself and @ImaRobot are having at the moment, I have never experienced it personally in 10 years of playing Forza. That doesn't mean to say it isn't happening, as shown by Imarobot, it is a real issue.

But!​

there could be any number of reasons why this is happening to some and not others, from issues with wireless interference. Firmware not been up to date on the controller itself. To a less than perfect controller, or even just something wrong with the xbox itself. All those things could cause a controller not to work as desired, which can and will hamper your gaming experience. But when it comes to actually playing the game, there are not too many people who have this issue. Not as many as you are saying anyway. And some, if not most of those people, have stated the issue went away when they plugging in a micro USB cable. Or bought a new controller. The usb cable is the easiest and cheapest route by the way.

This is what I believe is the problem with Imarobot, you though Speedster. I am just not so sure. You have given far less information, and you have expressed your issue very differently. You seem to just want the speed sensitive steering gone, as you feel it is hindering your ability to drive in the game. If you are using Sim Steering, then this should be less of an issue for you. But then, this isn't very much an issue on normal steering anyway. You also keep going on about Pcars, and the way the controller works and is adjustable on it. Please keep in mind here, that I am a WMD member. And that I am one of the many people who funded that game, and played all the dev builds. The way the controller works on that game is rubbish. You have to sit there, some times over a few days, just to get anything that feels ok. Even then it is not brilliant. And don't even get me started on the set up for the wheels. The calibration page for the steering and pedals is ok, but it takes a nose dive when it comes to setting up force feedback. There is also no consistency between cars, often forcing the end user go back through the menus and change settings for some cars. Having to have separate FFB setups for wheels, and so on and so forth. SMS made Pcars more complicated to set up than it needed to be, and they did this because of people like yourself. People who wanted more control over the games controller settings. But they also failed to provide a good enough preset for the casual gamer. And they failed to add consistency to the controls and ffb. Assetto corsa isn't that complicated to set up, with only 5 sliders at most for FFB control. There is Gamma and speed sensitivity, so you can set up a 360 controller if you don't have a wheel. And it feels so much better than Pcars does on a game pad. It even feels better and more intuitive on a wheel than Pcars does. iRacing has equally as little to set up as Assetto does, and that also feels vastly Superior to Pcars on a 360 pad or a wheel. So make of that what you will.

I am sure that you will reply soon enough, and I am sure you will just ignore most of the essay I have just written. But you really do need to take some of it on board. I am not saying you have to change your own opinion here Speedster, but you need to accept what others are saying; because it hasn't just been myself saying this too you. If you have a technical fault on your end, then it is up to you to contact Xbox support and deal with it. If it is just a case you want more control options, then send an email to T10. They are the ones who deal with that side of things after all.

And yes, this post is very condescending towards you. I hold my hands up and admit it. But after 2 years of seeing you go on like this over this and that, and then ignoring people who reply to you. Even be dismissive towards what they have to say. Well I have just reached my limit. I have a lot of patience, but you just gone too far this time. Now that I have this rant off my chest however, normal service should be resumed.
​

 

[FordGTGuy]

@Ialyrn @mrPetros @FordGTGuy

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/lImaRobotl/video/9111821

Only instance I encountered tonight, and it was more tamer than usual. Look at the wheel positioning as well as how well I turn in on the first try. On the second try you can see the it oddly under steering, even though the car is more capable of turning turning in, and also make special note of how the wheel all of a sudden just flicks and turns in out of no where. There was no corrections made either time, and my stick was full left the whole time.

Now that... is extremely weird and I've never had that happen to me before...

 

[RacerPaul]

@Ialyrn

Can't comment on the bulk of your post because I haven't been privy to the whole thing, but...

Whoo boy, the passenger in that video sure looks twitchy

 

[Speedster911]

​

I think you have too much free time on your hands and take things way too personally.

Good luck and enjoy the game.

 

[Ialyrn]

I think you have too much free time on your hands and take things way too personally.

Good luck and enjoy the game.

And I think I was spot on about your reply being dismissive.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

@Ialyrn @mrPetros @FordGTGuy

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/lImaRobotl/video/9111821

Only instance I encountered tonight, and it was more tamer than usual. Look at the wheel positioning as well as how well I turn in on the first try. On the second try you can see the it oddly under steering, even though the car is more capable of turning turning in, and also make special note of how the wheel all of a sudden just flicks and turns in out of no where. There was no corrections made either time, and my stick was full left the whole time.

As I understand the steering system, if it doesn't want to turn, you have to press brake to activate the steering system. You need to outthink it so it does what you want it to, so you need to be braking into corner until steering activates, otherwise it won't turn even if going at same speed. Driveclub I think is the benchmark for steering with control pad at the moment for me personally where it makes you feel at one with the car somehow.

 

[Speedster911]

And I think I was spot on about your reply being dismissive.

I certainly do not have time to write down essays (and actually expect people to go through that mini-book review), going out of my way to prove someone wrong.

It's quite possible you're in denial. Some of Forza's issues are rather glaring, and if you're overly sensitive to people pointing them out, so be it.

And keep this in mind: no one has to agree to your analogy or opinion, just because YOU feel you are right, posting videos and technical mumbo jumbo that has no business being in the post to begin with.

As I understand the steering system, if it doesn't want to turn, you have to press brake to activate the steering system. You need to outthink it so it does what you want it to, so you need to be braking into corner until steering activates, otherwise it won't turn even if going at same speed. Driveclub I think is the benchmark for steering with control pad at the moment for me personally where it makes you feel at one with the car somehow.

Yes Saidur, I can relate to what you're saying. Though if you press the brakes past a certain point, that's it ... you're done; the wheels won't turn unless you ease off completely from the brakes.. irrespective of speed. This is just a very odd thing to experience.. IRL, the steering angle has nothing to do with brakes.. yes, it introduces friction and inevitable understeer when going into a corner fast, but that doesn't prevent the driver from turning the wheel to get an optimum angle which allows him to not only lift his foot off from the brakes at the last moment but also hit the apex.

This isn't as big of an issue in Horizon 2 mind you, but present still. I've set my outside deadzone to 75, allowing my driver to go to more lock and hit max lock faster around hairpins. Not only do you get better turn-in response but in situations where you need to react really fast, your driver never lets you down. Be prepared to deal with some twitchiness though, particularly on LMP cars. All a matter of getting used to.

 

[Ialyrn]

I certainly do not have time to write down essays (and actually expect people to go through that mini-book review), going out of my way to prove someone wrong.

It's quite possible you're in denial. Some of Forza's issues are rather glaring, and if you're overly sensitive to people pointing them out, so be it.

And keep this in mind: no one has to agree to your analogy or opinion, just because YOU feel you are right, posting videos and technical mumbo jumbo that has no business being in the post to begin with.

I don't think you understand what a public forum is, and is used for. You post something up, a discussion around it ensues. People post up counter-points and differing opinions. Some, like myself, will give more technical information where we can or need to. Just because I have replied to you with a such a long post though, doesn't mean I an an advocate of forza. I clearly state in a few of my posts that T10 still have a lot to work on. It isn't a perfect game by any means. But just because I do not experience the issues you do, doesn't mean they are not there. And I have not once said that. I just said that in 10 years of playing Forza, I have never encountered that particular issue.

I also play a ton of different racing games, both on consoles and on pc. I have so many racing games to hand, that some days I do not know which one to play. So it is not that I do not get that the grass can be greener elsewhere either. But, yet again, you have to be dismissive just because I do not agree with you. But it is a tad hard to have and actual discussion with you, when as soon as you are challenged; you back off in full retreat and defense mode.

In this particular topic of discussion between us, the "technical mumbo jumbo" and videos have a very valid point. And quite clearly does have business being in the post to begin with. It is a shame you cant see that, but you are not willing to even consider what others have to say.

 

[Speedster911]

I don't think you understand what a public forum is, and is used for. You post something up, a discussion around it ensues. People post up counter-points and differing opinions. Some, like myself, will give more technical information where we can or need to. Just because I have replied to you with a such a long post though, doesn't mean I an an advocate of forza. I clearly state in a few of my posts that T10 still have a lot to work on. It isn't a perfect game by any means. But just because I do not experience the issues you do, doesn't mean they are not there. And I have not once said that. I just said that in 10 years of playing Forza, I have never encountered that particular issue.

I also play a ton of different racing games, both on consoles and on pc. I have so many racing games to hand, that some days I do not know which one to play. So it is not that I do not get that the grass can be greener elsewhere either. But, yet again, you have to be dismissive just because I do not agree with you. But it is a tad hard to have and actual discussion with you, when as soon as you are challenged; you back off in full retreat and defense mode.

In this particular topic of discussion between us, the "technical mumbo jumbo" and videos have a very valid point. And quite clearly does have business being in the post to begin with. It is a shame you cant see that, but you are not willing to even consider what others have to say.

Others, including myself and @ImaRobot have faced this issue; you have not. Noted.

Time to move on. This has nothing whatsoever to do with being dismissive or defensive but rather a difference of opinion. Get over yourself. You proved your point. Big deal.

It doesn't change the game in any way and what we discussed is very much there and needs to be corrected at some point. have you offered any insights that might be valuable to users? Or are you going to continue with that mantra: "Oh I've never faced this issue, it's all in your head.. just get a wheel" ?

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Yes Saidur, I can relate to what you're saying. Though if you press the brakes past a certain point, that's it ... you're done; the wheels won't turn unless you ease off completely from the brakes.. irrespective of speed. This is just a very odd thing to experience.. IRL, the steering angle has nothing to do with brakes.. yes, it introduces friction and inevitable understeer when going into a corner fast, but that doesn't prevent the driver from turning the wheel to get an optimum angle which allows him to not only lift his foot off from the brakes at the last moment but also hit the apex.

This isn't as big of an issue in Horizon 2 mind you, but present still. I've set my outside deadzone to 75, allowing my driver to go to more lock and hit max lock faster around hairpins. Not only do you get better turn-in response but in situations where you need to react really fast, your driver never lets you down. Be prepared to deal with some twitchiness though, particularly on LMP cars. All a matter of getting used to.

Like on Silverstone Vale corner, if you don't use brakes until car turns, steering system will not turn when you want it to and then it is lap ruined. It is way the steering system appears to work depending on speed and input.