Forza Motorsport 7: Demo Discussion

[PzR Slim]

Yes, that's the first thing I did.
The Nissan does feel normal, it's the porsche which ruined my impression on the handling of the road cars in the game.

What particularly about the Porsche is wrong.

 

[Ak1504]

Is it really that hard to notice when you drive it/see how it behaves ?

 

[Diablo_rf]

What particularly about the Porsche is wrong.

Sorry man, but if you didn't find it wrong, there is no point for me to explain you anything...
But I'll try anyway.
First off, the car has an unrealisticly high amout of undesteer, just stop the car, turn the wheel to full lock in any direction and full throttle.
In real life it will spin in circle, in FM7 it goes straight, like a FWD car. This is not right!
Other thing is the snap oversteer entering in the corner, It's not how a car like this would handle.

 

[Diablo_rf]

Is it really that hard to notice when you drive it/see how it behaves ?

Not everyone is experienced with simulation games, some players who play arcade game might think it's how it should be...

 

[PzR Slim]

Is it really that hard to notice when you drive it/see how it behaves ?

Provide specifics. How can anyone tell you know what you are talking about if you can't talk specifically about what is wrong? I'm not in anyway being derogatory or harsh, it's just difficult to discuss a problem without specifics.

Sorry man, but if you didn't find it wrong, there is no point for me to explain you anything...
But I'll try anyway.
First off, the car has an unrealisticly high amout of undesteer, just stop the car, turn the wheel to full lock in any direction and full throttle.
In real life it will spin in circle, in FM7 it goes straight, like a FWD car. This is not right!
Other thing is the snap oversteer entering in the corner, It's not how a car like this would handle.

I can provoke snap oversteer into a corner in all of the sims I play, and that's dependent on how I approach the corner. A great place to see this in any game is coming down the hill into the last two corners at Imola. You have to be really careful with your braking and turn in our snap oversteer results. I can also drive the Porsche in the demo without any snap oversteer on corner entry. Provides some vids so we can see how you are driving the car.

I can comment on the understeer from a standstill as I haven't tried that, however, a rear engined car with lots of weight over the rear axle will exhibit understeer depending on how it is driven, so once again provides some vids showing how you are driving when this occurs.

I have seen both the snap oversteer and huge understeer in the demo when driving the Porsche, however, I have also been able to drive many many laps without seeing it. And seeing or not seeing those two things was as a result of how I drove the car and approached the corners.

 

[Ak1504]

Try this ingame:



Look how the car behaves in comparison with the game... Start the demo and watch how it slides weird with the front tires that they overheat as you can see in the hud...

This is part of the unconnected floaty feeling everyone is talking about > bad physics

 

[PzR Slim]

Try this ingame:



Look how the car behaves in comparison with the game... Start the demo and watch how it slides weird with the front tires that they overheat as you can see in the hud...

This is part of the unconnected floaty feeling everyone is talking about > bad physics

Thanks. I'll try that tonight and report back.

 

[Ak1504]

And as said before its really weird for a game thats made for gamepads and that is not a sim that the cars are harder to control as in a simulation.

I really wish they would rework the forza physics but i think this will never happen.

 

[PzR Slim]

And as said before its really weird for a game thats made for gamepads and that is not a sim that the cars are harder to control as in a simulation.

I really wish they would rework the forza physics but i think this will never happen.

One question. Are you using simulation steering? I find that to be atrocious and even Thomas from Fanatec has called it a 'drift mode' and suggests using Normal.

I really haven't found the Porsche hard to drive. I feel I can throw it around quite a lot and balance it on the limits of both understeer and oversteer nicely.

 

[RPM Bibblefish]

The Porsche handles exactly like I expected a RR car would, lots of understeer and lift off oversteer.

I'm also having no problems getting it to do donuts either, the physics are fine.

 

[Ak1504]

Normal Steering.

The donuts are not the point. Its how the car behaves while driving/donuts. Unrealistic sliding over the front tires which overheats them. Can´t remember how long this issue is in the physics engine.

All this weird sliding and stuff let the cars feel imprecise, floaty, no feeling what the front wheels are doing ect. It all comes in play when you use a wheel. Then you really feel how unrealistic the physics are and how much harder to driven than an assetto corsa, automobilista ect.

I started with Forza 2 and drove only Forza games for years and i thought wow the cars feel great this must be a sim. Then i bought a pc and started simracing and i noticed that i was complete wrong about Forza.

If the ffb is physics based which it really should then the game will never have good ffb/feeling unless they do some major changes to the physics.

I´m beta tester for RaceRoom since 2013 and i know how much a game can feel better/improve with better physics.

 

[RPM Bibblefish]

I'm still not sure what it is you're experiencing that you feel is wrong. At speed, if you lift off the throttle on corner entry the shift in weight is going to unsettle the car and cause oversteer, when you then hit the throttle all the weight shifts to the rear and you've got understeer, that's exactly what I'm experiencing and also what I expected from a RR car.

If I stop and hit the throttle while turning, I'm doing donuts

 

[SPhilli911]

Took me all night to download the demo, I hate to think about how long the full game will take!

But the demo was awesome, especially the weather on the Nurburgring GP (the sky when you enter the straight on lap 2 is gorgeous!) and it was good to drive Mugello again. The GT2 RS felt odd at first, but I've been away from racing games a while. Not bad, just different than I'm used to. It felt more realistic, heavy and powerful. When you hit the gear change you can feel the power. I'm dying to play the full game.

 

[foundaunivers]

Long time reader. First time poster.

I'd like to thank Turn 10 for the FM7 demo. It's a great way to evaluate the product before purchase.

I'm dumbfounded by the input latency on PC with an Xbox 360 Wireless Controller and I'd appreciate confirmation of my experience.

When driving the 911 GT2 RS '18 with no assists except ABS I can throw the analogue stick fully left and right in a fairly fast back-and-forth motion and nothing happens on screen. The Porsche continues to travel in a perfectly straight line. I have tried both normal and simulation steering and nothing happens.

Only when I pause for a moment in either direction will the car start to move in that direction. I feel I may be dealing with input latency in the range of hundreds of milliseconds. Has anyone else experienced this?

 

[Ak1504]

Welcome to Forza ^^

Tbh its the speed sensitive steering help which you have to get used to. It can be really weird for new to Forza players.

 

[PzR Slim]

Normal Steering.

The donuts are not the point. Its how the car behaves while driving/donuts. Unrealistic sliding over the front tires which overheats them. Can´t remember how long this issue is in the physics engine.

All this weird sliding and stuff let the cars feel imprecise, floaty, no feeling what the front wheels are doing ect. It all comes in play when you use a wheel. Then you really feel how unrealistic the physics are and how much harder to driven than an assetto corsa, automobilista ect.

I started with Forza 2 and drove only Forza games for years and i thought wow the cars feel great this must be a sim. Then i bought a pc and started simracing and i noticed that i was complete wrong about Forza.

If the ffb is physics based which it really should then the game will never have good ffb/feeling unless they do some major changes to the physics.

I´m beta tester for RaceRoom since 2013 and i know how much a game can feel better/improve with better physics.

Do we really need to post our gaming history? I've done all of the above and more. I've answered some of your questions. You have provided others. Let me test test full lock acceleration from a standstill and donuts and I'll get back to you.

 

[Ak1504]

"Normal Steering." this for ment for you... Not the other stuff i wrote...

Looks like i should use the @ a bit more...

 

[JC_Dude]

Long time reader. First time poster.

I'd like to thank Turn 10 for the FM7 demo. It's a great way to evaluate the product before purchase.

I'm dumbfounded by the input latency on PC with an Xbox 360 Wireless Controller and I'd appreciate confirmation of my experience.

When driving the 911 GT2 RS '18 with no assists except ABS I can throw the analogue stick fully left and right in a fairly fast back-and-forth motion and nothing happens on screen. The Porsche continues to travel in a perfectly straight line. I have tried both normal and simulation steering and nothing happens.

Only when I pause for a moment in either direction will the car start to move in that direction. I feel I may be dealing with input latency in the range of hundreds of milliseconds. Has anyone else experienced this?

I tried playing with a Dualshock 4. When turning fully in one direction the front tires just smoke and the car understeers. Also the triggers don't work properly. Applying any form of input is interpreted as full throttle, making the game basically unplayable.

 

[Pillo-san]

Sooo let me get this straight, you guys are comparing the physics engine of a game that is modeled across 700 cars(30s GP, 60s Muscle, racing semi trucks, Rally trucks, rally cars, modern F1, super cars, indy and more and more classes) and on top of this each car has upgrades that can change the entire dynamic of the vehicles to games with 100+ cars(200 at most) and no upgrading.

You're not going to be driving a Reliant Robin on street tires in AC.(Let alone one with an engine swap and a giant turbo.)

I've seen this argument so many times, you're not going to get the same accuracy with such a huge amount of cars and upgrading.

Here is the available car list for R3E:

http://game.raceroom.com/store/cars/#undefined

See many stock Ford Raptors? There isn't even a stock Ford GT, just GT3 versions.

Honestly, how exactly do you expect them to catch up from being so "far behind" when you're comparing such extremes.

What? The biggest Forza fanboi is as usual defending the poor physics/ffb in the demo of Forza 7 with the notion that there bare so many cars in the full game? Haha, you are funny Forza7 or at least the demo seems to be what many members where afraid it would be. Not even a good Simcade when using with a wheel. Once again forza seems to be the worst game out there when it comes to ffp/physics and PC2 seems to be a big step forward to your dismay if you go by the youtubers at least.

 

[RPM Bibblefish]

What? The biggest Forza fanboi is defending the poor physics/ffb in the demo with the notion that there is so many cars in the full game? Haha, you are funny Forza7 or at least the demo seems to be what many members where afraid it to be. Not even a good Simcade when using with a wheel. Once again forza seems to be the worst game out there when it comes to ffp/physics.

What's wrong with the physics, please explain? The only thing 'wrong' so far seems to be peoples interpretation of how they 'think' certain cars in certain conditions should behave

 

[GTDavy]

Another few impressions after trying the controller this morning

- I started a race with the trucks... still had my G920 on... accelerated on the controller nothing happend.... jumped back into the playseat and did a nice catch up race... anyways switched off the wheel and tried with controller. Controller feels almost (if not identical) to FM6 and I think it might still be faster then using a wheel.
- The AI on Dubai is really trying to kill you in some corners, limit aggression was ON, I think I will leave it on! I might also just be to damn slow.
- If you spin the AI seems to just keep hitting you.... instead of just driving around you. (not great!)

 

[Pillo-san]

What's wrong with the physics, please explain? The only thing 'wrong' so far seems to be peoples interpretation of how they 'think' certain cars in certain conditions should behave

I go by AK1504 video as proof for what is wrong with forza, for the demo at least. I am hoping the full game will be better but I doubt it, yet I hope.
I will try the demo soon enough, but if it will feel as bad as forza apex then it will be a fact and not what you describe as "peoples interpretation". Maybe you have not driven high end cars hard or on track but "others" have...

 

[RPM Bibblefish]

I go by AK1504 video as proof for what is wrong with forza, for the demo at least. I am hoping the full game will be better but I doubt it, yet I hope.
I will try the demo soon enough, but if it will feel as bad as forza apex then it will be a fact and not what you describe as "peoples interpretation". Maybe you have not driven high end cars hard or on track but "others" have...

What exactly does that video prove? Again, explain what is wrong with the physics and why the porsche should not display characteristics of both understeer and lift off oversteer

 

[AnimaVesta]

The Porsche has been kicking my butt right now. Probably because I'm having a hard time getting it to not oversteer. In part because I'm trying to learn the track as well, so I'm most likely over driving the turns.

The Semi and GTR is pretty fun though.



Interesting. I turned it off by default. I bet it'll be for the more casuals, and I could see turning it on for my niece(7) and nephew(9) though.

Turn off STM. It makes a world of difference with the Porsche.

 

[Pillo-san]

What exactly does that video prove? Again, explain what is wrong with the physics and why the porsche should not display characteristics of both understeer and lift off oversteer

I am talking about the feeling of disconnect you get in Forza. What the wheel does and what the car does, feels like if there is "inputlag" between the wheel and the car and what it is happening to the car itself. That is my biggest issue with the Forza series. Oversteer/understeer characteristic I dont care that much about as developers give the virtual car its own interpretation/flavour. But when the wheel feels like it is dipped in syrup and you dont know what is happening to the car well, it means the game is going into the bin. Gamepad with forza is fantastic but turn10 simply have never heard of a steering wheel.

 

[psychoazubi]

First time Forza for me today. After years of GT/PCars/F1/AC with my wheel I was looking for a more casual game to play with a controller when I'm not in the mood to get behind the wheel.

Playing on PC with a DS4 Controller, it is great for that purpose. Not looking for great driving physics, there are other games for that coming out. The Demo delivers just what I expected in terms of graphic/sound/handling and I bought the Standard version right away. It was either this or GTSport and after playing both demos, I won't need GTS for some time. F1 2017, Pcars2 and FM7 will keep me busy for some time.

 

[RPM Bibblefish]

I am talking about the feeling of disconnect you get in Forza. What the wheel does and what the car does, feels like if there is "inputlag" between the wheel and the car and what it is happening to the car itself. That is my biggest issue with the Forza series. Oversteer/understeer characteristic I dont care that much about as developers give the virtual car its own interpretation/flavour. But when the wheel feels like it is dipped in syrup and you dont know what is happening to the car well, it means the game is going into the bin. Gamepad with forza is fantastic but turn10 simply have never heard of a steering wheel.

So you're not happy with the feel of the wheel, what exactly has that got to do with the physics engine. The physics are the same regardless if using a pad or a wheel are they not?

 

[ClydeYellow]

Honestly, the GT2 doesn't feel any different than I'd expect a 700hp, RWD turbo 911 without any fancy electronic driver aids would. On a controller and with Normie steering, I'm having troubles getting some heat in the front tires - this seems to be at odds with what most people have been experiencing. The other cars feel great, I'm loving how there is a distinct feel for the weight of a vehicle: with the truck you can easily jump on curbs I know for a fact are a bitch to take in a lightweight car and feel nothing, and even a trip in the grass won't ruin your day too much; do the same with the GT-R, and you're done. Rain seems to be implemented properly this way around, no puddles of doom and hydroplaning all the way around - it's a shame that even in the full game we won't get to experience the thrill of being caught out in the wet on slick tires, tho.

All in all I feel like there's a solid physics engine underneath the game, although of course the experience is somewhat approximate and makes many concessions to casual users. Only thing left to do is to test how cars on threaded bias ply tires behave now...

 

[bluemoon_19]

I tried playing with a Dualshock 4. When turning fully in one direction the front tires just smoke and the car understeers. Also the triggers don't work properly. Applying any form of input is interpreted as full throttle, making the game basically unplayable.

I just tried with my DS4 and it works perfect with triggers.
I am happy with the demo, like others I find that porchse not nice to drive but the GT-r is not bad. Have to go to work soon but i will just give the truck a go before I go. Not to happt with performance though, I have Horizon 3 on my PC(ultra 55-60FPS) and that runs great but here I get stutter even on the main loading screen showing the cars all opened up.

 

[Pillo-san]

So you're not happy with the feel of the wheel, what exactly has that got to do with the physics engine. The physics are the same regardless if using a pad or a wheel are they not?

Man please stop wasting my time, I play with the wheel, as I drive with the wheel. If the game is sub par with a steering wheel regardless of how advanced physics is lurking undearneat the hood of the game it will still be bad when gaming with a wheel. The thing is Forza has never been a sim as it never aims to be one, so it has nothing in this segment vs other games on pc but we could at least get an accurate way of steering the car with a wheel? I dont understand why you try to defend a game, a demo at that when people point out its shortcoming. I for one do enjoy the Forza physics with a controller, sliding and drifting effortlessly with a pad, but with a wheel it just is not how a car game should feel. Even games from early 2000 are better than older forza titles so I hoped for something better. But like I said I am taking this info from a youtube video, and it can, no, I hope that it will be improved when the full game get released.