Forza Motorsport 7 Tipped To Reveal This Week, Running in 4K on Project Scorpio

Has this been confirmed by T10? I was under the impression liveries are only carried over because the system used for them is. The shapes are still hard-coded: there was an error with a lowercase "a" or something similar not aligning properly in FM6, IIRC.

I'm also not entirely sure they're vectors, or if they are, they're pretty lousy ones. Ellipses have obvious sides to them when expanded. :(
The shapes you're talking about are defined by vertices, when we zoom on curves we can see the vertices and sharp angles, but we won't see zoomed pixels (i'm speaking livery editor here, the game then turn shapes into bitmap).
Brand logos may be bitmaps in the first place, i'm not sure.

Anyway, what matters are stored informations that defines where and how they are placed, which are 2d vectors (or, pairs of float values, since a 2d vector is nothing more than an encapsulated pair of float): position, zoom, rotation... Since those data are displayed on screen and recovered when editing previously made liveries, we can be 100% sure that everything needed for carrying them around from game to game actually exists ;)

What could legitimately be lost is entire car liveries in case T10 decide to change how virtual textures ("top", "left", "bumper") are applied on some or all cars (some cars are really annoying to paint on).
 
Easy, mass production of high volumes lowers overal costs. Once a console comes with upgradable parts and it starts to "look" like internal PC parts that advantage is gone.

I mean from a sheer horsepower standpoint, I can't see them producing $1,400 consoles and it being realistic. The hardware to power 4k/60 fps is through the roof.
 
I mean from a sheer horsepower standpoint, I can't see them producing $1,400 consoles and it being realistic. The hardware to power 4k/60 fps is through the roof.
It's an interesting point. Would they really be sending it to DF to do the reveal if they didn't have something special up their sleeve?
 
I am so nervous for the Win 10 requirements :nervous:
Same.

I have a hard time believing that it'll require more oomph to run reasonably well than FH3 does, being open world vs. on-track and all. Then again, naming a 1080ti as the recommended GPU saves T10 the hassle to optimise the game...
 
It's an interesting point. Would they really be sending it to DF to do the reveal if they didn't have something special up their sleeve?

Indeed. Especially considering the talk of the dev kits only running at ~80% power right now.

I think people are forgetting about optimization on consoles. The PS2's specs were hardly stunning when it came out, but a similarly-powerful PC couldn't hope to match the visuals of GT3 back then.
 
I think people are forgetting about optimization on consoles. The PS2's specs were hardly stunning when it came out, but a similarly-powerful PC couldn't hope to match the visuals of GT3 back then.

Indeed and I would dare to say even today. Is there a PC game that looks better than Horizon Zero Dawn in full 2K HDR glory on the PS4 Pro? It's the most impressive game I've seen until today and the fact that it's an open world game makes it even more impressive.

Runner up would be Forza Horizon 3 in HDR on both XBox One S and the PC, again an open world game.
 
@SlipZtrEm The PS2 wasn't the best exemple, as its architecture is very different from a PC, with dedicated R&D to design its core components. But i agree with your point. Forza Horizon 3 is a very good exemple of this: surprisingly, my experience on my PC hasn't be noticeably superior than on my console as it usually is, despite not being disappointing by itself (crashing problem asides). It's just that FH3 would probably run half as good on a PC with similar component. Today, i'm playing on PC, mostly, but having played FH3 on XO has shift my opinion: i do consider going back to consoles with Scorpio.
 
Indeed and I would dare to say even today. Is there a PC game that looks better than Horizon Zero Dawn in full 2K HDR glory on the PS4 Pro?

Yes. I gawk over Horizon as much as anyone else, and Decima is an incredible game engine but there are quite a number of games on PC that look better.

More to @SlipZtrEm's original point: it's an interesting one, that. Consoles have almost unconditionally had an advantage in visuals up until the seventh generation (one could argue the original Xbox bridged that gap for a number of reasons but we're not here for that) thanks to no small part of Moore's Law — evolution on the PC is unending to the point where a console cannot and will not compete in terms of outright computing power.

The one advantage consoles will always have, and it is often surprisingly understated is localized optimization for one set of hardware.
 
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-project-scorpio-tech-revealed

Performance is remarkable. We saw a Forza Motorsport demo running on the machine at native 4K and Xbox One equivalent settings, and it hit 60 frames per second with a substantial performance overhead - suggesting Scorpio will hit its native 4K target across a range of content, with power to spare to spend on other visual improvements. And while 4K is the target, Microsoft is paying attention to 1080p users, promising that all modes will be available to them.

Forza on Scorpio: 4K60 with power to spare

But the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Specs are one thing, but Microsoft is promising that both 900p and 1080p Xbox One games should be able to run at native 4K on Project Scorpio. We needed to see validation of this, meaning we needed to see software - a tough call so many months out from release.

Regardless, Microsoft duly obliged, showing us a ForzaTech demonstration with the Xbox One engine operating at native 4K, at a locked 60fps. As you can see in the screenshot above, GPU utilisation is remarkably low at just 60-70 per cent (you can grab a full 4K PNG version of the above shot here) - but we should stress that this is basically an Xbox One port, not representative of the full quality we'll see in final software.

"This is us. This is ForzaTech running 60 frames a second, 4K," says Turn 10 Studio Software Architect, Chris Tecton. "We're still running with settings that we would have used in Forza 6... but this is also including 4K content... we've got authored assets for this set of the models, cars, tracks everything. We pushed it through and made sure the 4K textures were flowing through. We've got them all there at the right resolutions and they're not giving us enough of a bandwidth hit to offset that. If we drop back to when we originally ran and we didn't have 4K assets, it was maybe one per cent different. We were very much bound on a different point than memory bandwidth. It's been awesome and this is the point it's at."

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The demo stacks up the maximum amount of cars and runs the full AI and physics simulations. It's a highly taxing stress test, used to enforce the strict budgets in Forza Motorsport to ensure the locked 60fps the series is famous for. The ForzaTech port to Scorpio took two days to complete and was fully performant from day one. In fact, the team can push ForzaTech to the equivalent of PC's ultra-level settings and we're still sitting at 88 per cent GPU utilisation; in terms of system utilisation, this is ballpark with Xbox One at 1080p on its default settings. Clearly this is just one game, but the point is that Scorpio doesn't just scale Xbox One engines to 4K. For the Forza engine at least, there's overhead, and plenty of it.

"The awesome part about the whole story [is] that we can spend all this time heading into the future," enthuses Tector. "Instead of saying, 'How are we going to wrestle to get the performance on this?' we're actually saying we can make this quality trade-off or this quality trade-off and spend that time iterating, heading towards much better image quality. So instead of stressing about getting to a final resolution or a final frame-rate, we can really drive it all into quality."

Of course, if you're going to show off a game on a new Xbox, choosing one of the most visually accomplished, well-optimised first-party engines we've ever tested is the way to go, but Microsoft is insistent that the results and scalability Turn 10 demoed to us is "not atypical". The fact that the studio got great results from Scorpio hardware so early perhaps also explains why Microsoft is ready to unveil the hardware to the users so far ahead of release. With everyone we met there's a genuine, infectious excitement and confidence about the new box. And the fact that the platform holder is willing to share so much so early also suggests that E3 2017 is going to be one to remember.



http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-04-06-project-scorpio-explained

Did you see it running a game?

Yes. Well, a ForzaTech demo, which is a stress test based on the Forza Motorsport 6 engine, running the maximum number of cars around a track with dynamic weather and all the bells and whistles turned on.

How did it do?

Smashed it. At the same graphics quality settings as Xbox One, the demo ran at a full 4K resolution, at a perfect 60 frames per second. For Xbox One to do this at a standard HD resolution of 1080p uses about 90 per cent of that console's power. Scorpio was only using 60-70 per cent of its resources to run this demo. The graphics settings were then ramped up to the equivalent of the ultra settings on the PC game Forza Motorsport Apex, and Scorpio still didn't break a sweat.

So that means...

Scorpio potentially has enough power not just to run Xbox One games at 4K resolution at the same frame rate - it's got power to spare on improving their looks further, with higher quality graphics settings, smoother frame rates, and more.

What's the catch?

Microsoft didn't choose the Forza engine to demo to us by accident. It's one of the best optimised, best performing game engines out there. Results on other game engines can and will vary.

A quick note just to clarify things:

  • The content shown to Digital Foundry was a technical demo, using Forza Motorsport 6 assets and running on the ForzaTech engine that powers all current-generation Forza titles.

    Tech demos can and often do contain features that are not present in retail versions of games. Their primary purpose is to show what can be made possible, and will always differ from retail versions of any titles featured.

  • Forza Motorsport 7 was not mentioned anywhere in Eurogamer's Xbox Scorpio articles.

  • Neither Turn 10 Studios nor Microsoft have publicly announced or confirmed that Forza Motorsport 7 "is a thing" yet.

In short, if you're waiting for news on Forza Motorsport 7 you're not getting anything here. I would suspect that the game won't be formally announced until early June.
 
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Did you see it running a game?

Yes. Well, a ForzaTech demo, which is a stress test based on the Forza Motorsport 6 engine, running the maximum number of cars around a track with dynamic weather and all the bells and whistles turned on.

Dynamic Weather for FM7 confirmed?
 
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So apparently it's not using a Ryzen CPU + Vega GPU, but it'll be more like an upgraded Jaguar CPU + Polaris GPU.
It also mentions that the GPU has 40 compute units, compared to the RX 480's 36. Interesting.
 
Could be a mistake, he saw a ported version of Forza 6 so he probably meant weather.

Well it wasn't exactly FM6, it was a tech demo. He could be wrong though. Also notice the sky seen in the screenshot also isn't anything like FM6's rendition of the 'ring either. Looks like FH3's dynamic sky box.
 
No.

Dynamic weather already exists in Forza Horizon 2 and Forza Horizon 3, which run on the same ForzaTech engine as the current Motorsport titles. With everything running on the same engine you can swap assets in and out as required.

All this demo proves is that they can do it, not that they will.

I guess it all comes down to if they can get it running on the base XB1 hardware or not.
 
I guess it all comes down to if they can get it running on the base XB1 hardware or not.
Correct. We don't know what restrictions the development team would have when developing "Scorpio optimised titles" just yet.

It may be a requirement that graphics are the only thing that can be different between One/Scorpio, or developers could be allowed to add "Scorpio exclusive features" to their games.

We won't know that for a while.
 
Now I'm reluctantly hyped for dynamic weather in FM7... I wonder what they could do to get dynamic weather on XBONE.

Apparently they have 10% left to use? Maybe some more tweaks to the engine...
 
Now I'm reluctantly hyped for dynamic weather in FM7... I wonder what they could do to get dynamic weather on XBONE.

Apparently they have 10% left to use? Maybe some more tweaks to the engine...
Will they finally give us the dynamic weather & the time change altogether on FM7 or will they save it for FM8?
 
I think people are forgetting about optimization on consoles. The PS2's specs were hardly stunning when it came out, but a similarly-powerful PC couldn't hope to match the visuals of GT3 back then.
The ps2 had a very different architecture than a pc, build around the emotion engine. Nowadays console are much closer to a pc.

I do agree that console optimization is definitely a big plus compare to all the res and mode a pc game should have.
 
Now I'm reluctantly hyped for dynamic weather in FM7... I wonder what they could do to get dynamic weather on XBONE.

Apparently they have 10% left to use? Maybe some more tweaks to the engine...

Dynamic weather's fantastic I think but I would much rather have the leftover horsepower used for more nuanced physics calculations or richer, completely non-compressed car audio detail (both if possible).
 
For anyone wondering about dynamic weather: It's being said that the Driveclub devs got that game running on the stock PS4, without an FPS cap, at a fairly constant 45-50fps.

I have no doubt that Turn 10 could, with their resources and now much more time to develop and optimize the engine, get FM7 to display similar graphics (where ToD and weather are concerned) at 60fps.

That said, ToD and weather *are* the way forward when trying to introduce new features in to the game. They're easy to understand and apply to all current content as well, whereas other features may require a disproportionate amount of development time with no real pay off.

Even iRacing seems to be getting ToD this or next year.

That said, i'd kill for a proper, honest-to-god career mode in a Forza game (or a GT game really). None of them got it right so far.
 
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For anyone wondering about dynamic weather: It's being said that the Driveclub devs got that game running on the stock PS4, without an FPS cap, at a fairly constant 45-50fps.

I have no doubt that Turn 10 could, with their resources and now much more time to develop and optimize the engine, get FM7 to display similar graphics (where ToD and weather are concerned) at 60fps.

That said, ToD and weather *are* the way forward when trying to introduce new features in to the game. They're easy to understand and apply to all current content as well, whereas other features may require a disproportionate amount of development time with no real pay off.

Even iRacing seems to be getting ToD this or next year.

That said, i'd kill for a proper, honest-to-god career mode in a Forza game (or a GT game really). None of them got it right so far.

I believe F7 is going to pull off dynamic ToD and weather rather nicely, given the extra oomph they now have at their disposal. However, I'd still prefer they gear all the extra HP towards a more complex and nuanced physics model and fully detailed, non-compressed car audio for every car on the track. Wouldn't that be something?
 
For anyone wondering about dynamic weather: It's being said that the Driveclub devs got that game running on the stock PS4, without an FPS cap, at a fairly constant 45-50fps.

I have no doubt that Turn 10 could, with their resources and now much more time to develop and optimize the engine, get FM7 to display similar graphics (where ToD and weather are concerned) at 60fps.
Isn't the base PS4 supposed to be stronger than the base Xbox One? With that said, with Drive club still not being able to achieve the 60fps, I don't see it boding well for T10. They like to stick to a locked FPS, and anything that deviates from that will likely get the cut. You gotta remember that FM7 has to work on both consoles, and while it likely wont be an issue for the Scorpio, its the Base we have to think about.
 
Yeah, I don't expect dynamic time of day/weather.

Hopefully they'll have adjustable time of day/weather though.
Agreed. I wouldn't mind this either because it's something I'm hoping FM7 will extend upon FM6, especially since T10 is so obsessed about keeping a stable FPS and the fact they're developing FM7 on Scorpio, PC and XB1(?)

However, if all, and I mean ALL, tracks gets the same adjustable time/weather with some including snow for the first time, THAT would be awesome IMO. 👍

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Isn't the base PS4 supposed to be stronger than the base Xbox One? With that said, with Drive club still not being able to achieve the 60fps, I don't see it boding well for T10. They like to stick to a locked FPS, and anything that deviates from that will likely get the cut. You gotta remember that FM7 has to work on both consoles, and while it likely wont be an issue for the Scorpio, its the Base we have to think about.
And that's why I think the Scorpio and the PS4 pro are "useless" from a gaming point of view.
 
Isn't the base PS4 supposed to be stronger than the base Xbox One? With that said, with Drive club still not being able to achieve the 60fps, I don't see it boding well for T10. They like to stick to a locked FPS, and anything that deviates from that will likely get the cut. You gotta remember that FM7 has to work on both consoles, and while it likely wont be an issue for the Scorpio, its the Base we have to think about.

Right - and it's the base game that's going to be the primary focus. After all, we can't have higher detail levels or particle detail i.e. with dynamic ToD on Scorpio while the regular version gets less detail and no ToD? I believe the Scorpio is purely a 4K console and offers nothing in terms of higher detail in first-party titles.

And that's why I think the Scorpio and the PS4 pro are "useless" from a gaming point of view.

I think you are quite on the money. If seeing better colors or a super-sharp resolution motivates one to get a Scorpio + 4K TV, then they are indeed useless. MS/T10 are not stupid - I do not believe they are going to release two versions of the game where one has richer detail levels. That would cause a community uproar.

IMO, Forza looks great at 1080-60 fps on the X-One. However, I'm sure the Scorpio will offer a gaming experience that's closer to PC-gaming levels when it comes to multi-platform titles like COD or Battlefield.
 
Isn't the base PS4 supposed to be stronger than the base Xbox One? With that said, with Drive club still not being able to achieve the 60fps, I don't see it boding well for T10. They like to stick to a locked FPS, and anything that deviates from that will likely get the cut. You gotta remember that FM7 has to work on both consoles, and while it likely wont be an issue for the Scorpio, its the Base we have to think about.

Remember that Driveclub was always targetting 30 fps, not 60, and since they hit that target they likely never bothered to optimize it further. 45-50 fps for a launch title which was aiming for 30 is nothing to scoff at :)
 
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