Forza Motorsport Placed on Life Support as Microsoft Confirms No More Updates Planned

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gerarghini
  • 149 comments
  • 27,625 views
SimTourist
Honestly I don't think having a few car or track models be more accurate would change anything, or even a different career mode. The franchise is tied to xbox and xbox itself is struggling, FM hit it's peak when xbox hit it's peak back in 2009-2010. And the competition in the simracing market is much more fierce than in the arcade racer market, you have a dozen racers all competing for the same pie and Forza just doesn't have a unique selling feature.
Click to expand...
I disagree with some of this, based on early reviews and information about the progression in FM23, I chose not to buy the game until some of the progression had been fixed and it was on sale. I would have bought it day 1 if I liked the look of the career and felt it was fleshed out well enough.

Also it's not just XBox, it's also PC and could have been PS going forwards if it did well. PC sales are a massive factor.
 
Dave A
I disagree with some of this, based on early reviews and information about the progression in FM23, I chose not to buy the game until some of the progression had been fixed and it was on sale. I would have bought it day 1 if I liked the look of the career and felt it was fleshed out well enough.

Also it's not just XBox, it's also PC and could have been PS going forwards if it did well. PC sales are a massive factor.
Click to expand...
It bombed on PC as well, PC players have a lot of choice for these type of games so the market is tougher.
 
IMHO, this was inevitable.

Car culture is the major driving force of these games, and Forza was too superficial. It was always lacked passion. From the start, the people in charge were somewhat MADE to like car culture, rather than being passionate about it naturally. That lack of true passion could be felt in the final product.
 
SimTourist
It bombed on PC as well, PC players have a lot of choice for these type of games so the market is tougher.
Click to expand...
It did, I wasn't making a point it didn't. My point was that as a franchise it isn't purely tied to X-Box, it's been a PC franchise as well for a long time and now it's moving to PlayStation as well so reliance on X-Box sales is diminishing over time. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant when you said its tied to X-Box, because, yes and no, Forza is also tied to PC and set to be tied to PlayStation going forwards as well.
 
Voodoovaj
From the start, the people in charge were somewhat MADE to like car culture, rather than being passionate about it naturally. That lack of true passion could be felt in the final product.
Click to expand...

It's worth bearing in mind though that people working on games development are doing it because they love making games and because it pays the bills, not always because they're passionate about the subject matter of the games. Being good at project management for example is a much more important asset for people running a racing game studio than any knowledge about car culture. The game designers are one of the areas where passion for the subject does matter more, but even then a skilled designer with a car culture consultant on hand is probably a better combination than a designer who really loves cars but isn't so good at designing great games.

I don't even think passion for cars equates to success either, FH5 was a massive hit despite nobody in charge realising that players would want a Nissan Tsuru in a game set in Mexico and having to scramble to add one in much later. I think the failures in FM8 were much more related to things like project management (6 years to make a game that was a fairly incremental update) and poorly thought out game design (car XP, and the Builder's Cup as the only single-player progression) than they were to do with any lack of passion. That's also how the same team could make such big improvements to leave the game in a substantially better state now than when it launched, just rethinking areas of the design and implementing better alternatives.
 
Good point. If they want to work on the new game have no sense to keep working on Forza Motorsport.
 
A shame but inevitable. I always preferred Forza over GT for the more western focus of car brands and tracks. T10 just lost their way and had no passion or soul in their games since the Xbox 360. It would have fizzled out even if Forza Horizon had never came along.
 
Was pretty much expecting this the moment the news got out that Microsoft fired half of the team.
Gotta add the man power to Horizon 6 as that'll certainly make them more money than Motorsport will.
 
AttackDickie
Yeah, chase a rabbit to fill up a menu book. :sly: You'd think recently getting GT7 would soften the blow, but it's actually making me realize what I'm losing with FM. :nervous:
Click to expand...
Well, yeah, it's part of it, you are on board with it or not, but it also covers many other things so IMO GT7 feels a more cohesive package than FM. Anyways, as a whole game experience, for me GT is a 9, FM is an 8.0 (it wasn't at the start, more like 7.0)

You forgot to mention the music rally... :rolleyes:
 
You can be passionate about something you're working on and still crap the bed. And at other times, you can be following routine, but with a clear plan, that could be regarded as some of the best work you've ever done. What killed FM23 wasn't lack of passion. It was lack of direction. The game seemed as if it was made by people on their back foot, rather than a team trying to execute a well thought out plan.
 
Dopplegagger
You can be passionate about something you're working on and still crap the bed. And at other times, you can be following routine, but with a clear plan, that could be regarded as some of the best work you've ever done. What killed FM23 wasn't lack of passion. It was lack of direction. The game seemed as if it was made by people on their back foot, rather than a team trying to execute a well thought out plan.
Click to expand...
I've always believed that the original direction was going to be more "hardcore" but at some point, some marketing corpos meddled with it (the live service/FOMO stuff) and of course the pandemic complicated things too.
 
Last edited:
The writing was on the wall. I tried, and tried to enjoy the game, and at some points, it happened but...let's be honest, it was trying to love a trainwreck. Worst Forza ever made, which is not saying much taking into account FM5 was considered by many the worst so far, since the franchise always delivered one way or the other, and FM5 makes FM23 do a run for its money any day of the week, being the Forza after FM4 was hard enough, and the lack of content hurt things a lot, but I did enjoyed that game every single day of the week, it looked amazing, sounded amazing, had technical innovations such as the new game engine, allowing open wheeled cars, different rims front and back, the graphics...this was a disaster from day one. It got better overtime? Yes, but first impressions are key, and here...well. Not what I would call good, not after years of waiting, of empty words, of thousands of 'from the ground up'.

This game, besides a couple of objectively strong foundations here and there, was the biggest disappointment I could ever face as a long-time Forza player, I was lost for words. After a week of play, I decided that was a 3/10, mainly because of what it was, and what was supposed to be. And the worst of it all is, it felt uninspired, as if corporate created it after a week of weak AI work, it's just after damage control was fully active when some crucial changes started to happen, and it was not enough, and not early enough, just seeing how quickly professional teams discarded it was a giant red flag, this was born ill, and no amount of patches could ever fix it, it was a masterclass on how not to run a AAA franchise, which is sadly the trend for many big companies nowadays. And yet they won awards, which was the last thing they needed. After winning in fact Chris Esaki vanished from earth, I guess he finally realized people were not buying it, literally.

My only hope is they get FH6 right, the last chance to save the Forza name for good, Motorsport is badly hit, and needs a serious contender to earn back the trust players lost with this thing. If it ever happens, the first step is call it Forza Motorsport 8. Pretend this didn't happen, and learn from what they got wrong, what they got right, how it's the landscape for gaming in the future, read the room, and get something that makes nobody wish they were playing an old FM, besides just nostalgia. Heck, I miss FM7 as it was FM4 right now...
 
pez2k
It's worth bearing in mind though that people working on games development are doing it because they love making games and because it pays the bills, not always because they're passionate about the subject matter of the games. Being good at project management for example is a much more important asset for people running a racing game studio than any knowledge about car culture.
Click to expand...
You have to love the genre. Full stop.

Look at ARC Raiders.

Embark is owned/run by Patrick Soderlund. Patrick was CEO of DICE when they created Battlefield, and the CEO of Refraction Games when the made BF's predecessor, Codename Eagle. I can teach you to manage a project. I can't teach you to love your work.
 
Is that it for the Forza Motorsport series of games or are they just taking a break to focus on FH6 then at some point they could maybe work on a retry?
 
Im hoping the franchise isn't dead completely and if not I would imagine we get the next installment years down the line. Maybe 2029 the end of the decade? 🤷🏽‍♂️
 
RolexGTP
Im hoping the franchise isn't dead completely and if not I would imagine we get the next installment years down the line. Maybe 2029 the end of the decade? 🤷🏽‍♂️
Click to expand...
Nah, that's too soon, 2035 at the earliest
 
SimTourist
Nah, that's too soon, 2035 at the earliest
Click to expand...
Wouldn't be against that. 2nd step is actually building it from the ground up. Well, not the assets fresh/correct enough, newer cars scanned to accuracy and openable everything don't need further actions...maybe more customizable parts, but that impplies adding on it, not redoing. But everything else? Definitely yes. No asset from the Xbox 1/360 era as a rule of thumb shall live to see another day on a new FM. And if they need time, we can wait, if it's really worth it.

In fact...2nd step would be building an actual team, stop outsourcing like crazy, and make sure at least the core essentials are done in-house by a team with the expertise and the knowledge. They learned this late, just as they got back Nick Wiswell, Mike Caviezel and Lance Hayes just for the audio and music...they knew, but again, acted too late. Which sadly makes me think decisions were made by corporate with $ $ in their pupils, who forgot, just like maaaany others, that the first rule of a business is give people what they want, not what you think they will be eager to shallow. Sometimes if you are a master in your craft you can manage to mix the two, but they gave people nothing to work with here. Hopefully they allow people with care and passion to take care of things, it's not too late if something decent enough happens out of this disaster. Maybe it's the wake up call they needed, who knows.
 
Last edited:
Voodoovaj
IMHO, this was inevitable.

Car culture is the major driving force of these games, and Forza was too superficial. It was always lacked passion. From the start, the people in charge were somewhat MADE to like car culture, rather than being passionate about it naturally. That lack of true passion could be felt in the final product.
Click to expand...
"I'm traveling to Europe soon, I can't wait to test drive an Alpine!"
"We made the GTA one of the early prize cars, because one of our leads runs an Alfa Romeo club."
- Chris Esaki

In Forza, cars are categorized into over 50 divisions to group similar vehicles by body style, performance, and era.
How many does GT have?

Forza adds a new free career mode based around motorsport - When was the last big update!?
GT adds paid DLC based around motorsport - The biggest GT update ever!!

Excuse Me Wow GIF by Mashable
 
Last edited:
Johnny Caisse
Is that it for the Forza Motorsport series of games or are they just taking a break to focus on FH6 then at some point they could maybe work on a retry?
Click to expand...
Forza has always had 2 separate studios:
  1. Turn 10, which makes Forza Motorsport and also the Forzatech engine used in all Forza games and a few other Microsoft titles
  2. Playground Games, which makes Forza Horizon (and Fable)
Since around the FH3 era, Horizon has started to dramatically outsell Motorsport. To the tune of 10x+ sales.

The announced changes have basically been a few things:
  • All Turn 10 Motorsport development has stopped, including bug fixes.
  • The Turn 10 Forzatech engine development team has been merged into Playground Games to support FH6.
  • The previously shared car modelling teams are now solely working for FH6, and will therefore stop scanning race cars going forward (I assume).
  • FH6 is full steam ahead. Given the huge PS5 sales of FH5 I expect that Microsoft has increased their support for FH6 to be a true all-platform behemoth.

Edit: I think that behind the scenes this change has been ongoing for a while. Look at FM2023's Fujimi Kaido: It's so much more vibrant and higher quality than the original FM2023 tracks, and I suspect it was used by the PG team as a way to test their changes to the engine and a lot of artwork for FH6 Japan.
 
Last edited:
skazz
  • FH6 is full steam ahead. Given the huge PS5 sales of FH5 I expect that Microsoft has increased their support for FH6 to be a true all-platform behemoth.
Click to expand...
I wonder if FH5 or FH6 could potentially come to the Switch 2. Maybe I'm dreaming in colors...
 
AttackDickie
"I'm traveling to Europe soon, I can't wait to test drive an Alpine!"
"We made the GTA one of the early prize cars, because one of our leads runs an Alfa Romeo club."
- Chris Esaki
Click to expand...
jbmi09h8m8gf1.webp


Betcha he doesn't love the game as much now
 
Johnny Caisse
I wonder if FH5 or FH6 could potentially come to the Switch 2. Maybe I'm dreaming in colors...
Click to expand...
Maybe back when Microsoft was pseudo-pretending the Switch was their stand-in for their portable console, but now that Horizon is on Playstation, all they need is a few optimisation tweaks, me thinks.

FH5 does run on their ROG Ally though. That's about as "first-party" hardware wise you can get.
 
Such a shame as this was one of my favorite franchises. Turn 10 was given lots of time to build something but Chris Esaki's creative failed. Ultimately Chris was head of creative for FM, Dan Greenawalt as well, so I blame both of them along with some fault from corporate.

On MS's end, the fact they outsourced sooooooo much and then letting people go after project deadlines didn't help.
Look how much was outsourced after you scroll past the Turn 10 parts: https://www.mobygames.com/game/210034/forza-motorsport/credits/windows/

I'm not sure why Chris was so stuck on "built not bought" concept or Dan's evergreen "built from the ground up" nonsense. It's clear to me, that putting handcuffs on upgrades had to be a delay tactic for GamePass subs, or simply a dumb concept. This is why mandates from corporate ruin things even though Phil Spencer has stated in the past, they don't meddle with teams. Is this what happened or did Chris really think this was a good direction?

They both failed, Turn 10's mismanagement of one of it's pillar IPs should be met with nothing but disappointment/shame. I guess Chris can build Google Maps UX "from the ground up" now that he has moved on to Google. Dan can continue on in his manager role knowing his once "beloved" franchise is gone. You would think that would eat at him, but maybe they just don't care and that shows. Maybe that's where Kaz differs, where he actually cares about Gran Turismo, from every little detail.

We were sold a platform game, meaning continuous updates, no sequel, instead they peaced out after Fujimi Kaido. I had hoped the new track remakes of older tracks would continue as Sunset and Fujimi were impressive to me, along with new content. Seeing what could've been on ArtStation even shows they had plenty of ideas, too bad we will never see them implemented. Kills me to see some of those images of what could've been.

Art thumbnails post on Forza forum: https://forums.forza.net/t/the-downfall-of-forza-motorsport/655678/614
ArtStation: https://www.artstation.com/search?sort_by=date&query=Forza Motorsport
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Famine
Turn 10 to “Continue to Support” Forza Motorsport, But Its Future Remains Unclear
2 3
Replies
81
Views
17K
Dopplegagger
Dopplegagger
AudiMan2011
Forza Motorsport Update 21: IndyCar, Champions Cup, and More
Replies
6
Views
5K
letsdothis97
letsdothis97
AudiMan2011
Forza Motorsport Update 15: Bathurst, Ray Tracing Updates and More
Replies
15
Views
7K
Nacho Libre
Nacho Libre
AudiMan2011
Forza Motorsport Update 8: Multiplayer Updates, Track Toys, & More
Replies
2
Views
4K
Ryan81
R
AudiMan2011
Forza Motorsport Update 13: Sunset Peninsula, Mustangs, Drift Mode and More
Replies
9
Views
7K
ShavedBadger
ShavedBadger
Back