General Tuning Guide (Updated 1.09)

[DolHaus]

Thank you so much for this, this is exactly what i was looking for and it's a fantastic staring point for who (like me) doesn't have the slightest clue about tuning.
I'll study this guide for sure so finally i will have some starting reference point.

You're awesome! Thanks!

Thank you, you're very welcome.
I will be writing another guide soon which will cover the tuning process from a more step by step process to help show people where to start and what to be looking for when approaching a tune.

 

[LS Chiou]

...

Toe settings:


Front toe in (-)


Pros: Improved straight line stability. Increased mid corner grip


Cons: Reduced grip on turn in


Front toe out (+)


Pros: Increased grip on turn in


Cons: Less stable at speed. Reduced mid corner grip.


...

Hi, thanks for the effort in writing all these. And good writing, too. Very clear. (I'm pointed here by another thread.)

But the [+/-] and [in/out] in your description is the opposite to my understanding (from the real world, also the explanation in the game -- in the booklet with the disc and on the screen of tuning page).

And, in my own experiences with toe adjustments, it's also in sync with positive=in / negative=out in general.

So, would you please check again?

 

[DolHaus]

Hi, thanks for the effort in writing all these. And good writing, too. Very clear. (I'm pointed here by another thread.)

But the [+/-] and [in/out] in your description is the opposite to my understanding (from the real world, also the explanation in the game -- in the booklet with the disc and on the screen of tuning page).

And, in my own experiences with toe adjustments, it's also in sync with positive=in / negative=out in general.

So, would you please check again?

I'm fairly sure they're they right way round but I will check as soon as I can.
The way I view it is if you look at your feet and imagine that you are looking down on the top of the wheels. Get them parallel, this represents toe 0.0. Bring your big toes closer together while swivelling on your heels, this represents toe in (-). If you swivel on your heels again but make the gap between your toes bigger, this represents toe out (+).

 

[LS Chiou]

No problem in the definitions of toe in and out. Just the related + or - for them.

In addition, default setting of almost all cars is +0.2 at rear. I suppose it's for inherent straight line stability, so it should be toe in.

 

[Ksquad]

I at first thought it was backwards as well until I tested it and saw that @DolHaus is indeed correct.

 

[LS Chiou]

I also did several tests these days.

Some more runs in Rain Master Spa by CTR with intermedium tire, set toe to +0.2 or -0.2 at the rear. I feel +0.2 is more stable, quite obviously. If (+) is toe out, it violates the common sense.

Another view on this is the default value. It's quite hard to believe that toe out (positive value here) at the rear would be the default setting on almost all cars.

 

[DolHaus]

It is definitely a little odd that all the cars share positive toe as a default setting. I don't tend to mess with toe that much unless I am trying to stabilise straight line stability or increase rear end rotation to get rid of understeer. Things such as the length of the wheel base can make a big difference to how effective toe settings are in my experience, long cars are less effected by toe whereas short cars can be affected quite dramatically

 

[ObscureSerenity]

It is definitely a little odd that all the cars share positive toe as a default setting. I don't tend to mess with toe that much unless I am trying to stabilise straight line stability or increase rear end rotation to get rid of understeer. Things such as the length of the wheel base can make a big difference to how effective toe settings are in my experience, long cars are less effected by toe whereas short cars can be affected quite dramatically

Yeah, the SWB cars like the mini really could do with the Caster changes discussed earlier... like the front wheel on a mountain bike sitting infront centre of gravity... look Ma, no hands!

 

[rams1de]

I also did several tests these days.

Some more runs in Rain Master Spa by CTR with intermedium tire, set toe to +0.2 or -0.2 at the rear. I feel +0.2 is more stable, quite obviously. If (+) is toe out, it violates the common sense.

Another view on this is the default value. It's quite hard to believe that toe out (positive value here) at the rear would be the default setting on almost all cars.

You are right in your original understanding, in game positive toe (+ value) is toe-in and negative toe is toe out. This blog article gives a rudimentary explanation of real world wheel alignment with pictures and you can see GT6 adopts the same principle.
http://leakylugnut.com/ssb/alignment/

I don't want to flame the OP because it's clear he is trying to be helpful but I'm not sure how much testing of settings was done before posting the guide. For example, he didn't notice the issue with camber which was evident from release.

I'd also be sceptical of the explanation for ride height. In my GT6 experience, higher front induces oversteer. I haven't used it extensively but it was easy to spot while testing how settings work with a stock S2000 and used to good effect in seasonal TTs with MiTo, Lancia Delta and Scirocco.

 

[DolHaus]

You are right in your original understanding, in game positive toe (+ value) is toe-in and negative toe is toe out. This blog article gives a rudimentary explanation of real world wheel alignment with pictures and you can see GT6 adopts the same principle.
http://leakylugnut.com/ssb/alignment/

I don't want to flame the OP because it's clear he is trying to be helpful but I'm not sure how much testing of settings was done before posting the guide. For example, he didn't notice the issue with camber which was evident from release.

I'd also be sceptical of the explanation for ride height. In my GT6 experience, higher front induces oversteer. I haven't used it extensively but it was easy to spot while testing how settings work with a stock S2000 and used to good effect in seasonal TTs with MiTo, Lancia Delta and Scirocco.

Most of the knowledge is brought forward from GT5and previous titles, and most of it still holds true. The guide mostly relates to FR cars as those are the most common and least confusing to tune, certain characteristics may not translate to other drivetrains or may be influenced by other elements of a tune. Thank you for being tactful in your approach to criticisms and possible errors. I will look into the toe issue as soon as I can and make any alterations where necessary, it could just be that I have it the wrong way round

 

[Ksquad]

I must disagree with what rams1de says. Sure maybe in reality it works a given way but whether that is correct or not in GT6 toe settings work exactly as this guide states. I too thought it was listed as backwards until I finally decided to get to the bottom of it and test it in game and my results matched @DolHaus 's

 

[LS Chiou]

... I too thought it was listed as backwards until I finally decided to get to the bottom of it and test it in game and my results matched @DolHaus 's

Would you please share your test(s)?

Here is some of my tests recently. Some other related experiences are also linked in that post. Those are pretty much my obsessions on those (troublesome) MR cars, and an amazing experience with DeltaWing.

I didn't say "toe in at the rear for straight line stability is common sense, so the opposite toe out must be bad and should be banned". It depends. I'd just like to clarify which is which.

 

[DolHaus]

Would you please share your test(s)?

Here is some of my tests recently. Some other related experiences are also linked in that post. Those are pretty much my obsessions on those (troublesome) MR cars, and an amazing experience with DeltaWing.

I didn't say "toe in at the rear for straight line stability is common sense, so the opposite toe out must be bad and should be banned". It depends. I'd just like to clarify which is which.

I've just had a look at what it says in the tuning settings and checked visually using photo mode and it would appear you are indeed correct. Seems an odd way to do things in my opinion: positive figures = negative toe. I will make the necessary changes to the guide, thank you for bringing this to my attention.

 

[LS Chiou]

👍

 

[Ksquad]

I didn't go crazy with testing however I did take a few cars and set them to 0/0 toe front and rear. Then if you add or subtract front or rear toe as mentioned in the guide (in increments of .10 or more to exaggerate the change) the car responded accordingly. If you move the toe slider to the left on the front of the car the car will turn in far better but will start to push mid corner to corner exit. Vice versa if you move the slider to the left.

On the rear of the car I found that when you move the slider left the car will rotate (lift off oversteer) better into the corners while moving the slider to the right makes the rear end more stable at speed and gives you better traction out of corners.

 

[LS Chiou]

...

On the rear of the car I found that when you move the slider left the car will rotate (lift off oversteer) better into the corners while moving the slider to the right makes the rear end more stable at speed and gives you better traction out of corners.

This is the same as my tests in general.

One very last thing needs clarifying is how the [+/-] and [in/out] reflect to the [left/right on the slider]

 

[Adrenaline]

LS Chiou is correct, DolHaus is mistaken. While you used the correct imagery when explaining your feet analogy, you mislabeled their corresponding values (-) (+).

Toe In is considered positive.
Toe Out is considered negative.

P.S. I caved and bought GT6... Silly PS4 and lack of Racing games

 

[DolHaus]

I have changed the values around in the guide and added notes to clear things up, problem solved!

 

[Adrenaline]

I have changed the values around in the guide and added notes to clear things up, problem solved!

A helpful reminder, that I offered when we had this discussion in GT5:
Think of the tires as a woman's legs.
As the driver, if they are open to you, that's a positive thing.
If they're closed, that's a negative thing.
The same can be applied to camber.
Caster is slightly different, but equally easy to remember. Towards you is good, away from you is bad.

 

[Ksquad]

Rear toe in (+ Slider to the right)
Pros: Reduced lift off/power oversteer
Cons: Reduced lift off/power oversteer


Rear toe out (- Slider to the right)
Pros: increased lift off/power oversteer
Cons: increased lift off/power oversteer

Looks good with the new explanation! Just caught a slight error, the bottom one should say left instead of right.

 

[DolHaus]

A helpful reminder, that I offered when we had this discussion in GT5:
Think of the tires as a woman's legs.
As the driver, if they are open to you, that's a positive thing.
If they're closed, that's a negative thing.
The same can be applied to camber.
Caster is slightly different, but equally easy to remember. Towards you is good, away from you is bad.

Nice analogy!
I understand the theory and the application, I just listed the + and - the wrong way round. It seemed more logical that negative toe (in) would be represented by a negative figure in my head but apparently that is incorrect. It was an easy fix and I'm glad it was pointed out to me so I could fix it.
Thank you all for your input, I wouldn't have noticed otherwise

 

[rams1de]

Nice analogy!
I understand the theory and the application, I just listed the + and - the wrong way round. It seemed more logical that negative toe (in) would be represented by a negative figure in my head but apparently that is incorrect. It was an easy fix and I'm glad it was pointed out to me so I could fix it.
Thank you all for your input, I wouldn't have noticed otherwise

I think you have the terminology confused.

Negative Toe is also referred to as Toe Out
Positive Toe is also referred to as Toe In

Move the slider to -ve values and apply Negative Toe/Toe Out
Move the slider to +ve values and apply Positive Toe/Toe In

So the game settings are logical and indicate clearly on screen which side of the slider adjusts Toe In and Toe Out.

 

[DolHaus]

I think you have the terminology confused.

Negative Toe is also referred to as Toe Out
Positive Toe is also referred to as Toe In

Move the slider to -ve values and apply Negative Toe/Toe Out
Move the slider to +ve values and apply Positive Toe/Toe In

So the game settings are logical and indicate clearly on screen which side of the slider adjusts Toe In and Toe Out.

Quite possibly, either way its fixed now

 

[DolHaus]

bump

 

[Nismo4Life82]

Ok thank you gentlemen for this basic tuning guide. I have been reading over the forums for 2 days trying to wrap my head around all the changes in gt6.Back story I was an avid gt5 player i just bought gt6 anniversary edition. I bought 3 days ago. i have patched version 1.04 after reading for days this is what i have learned. Flat floors broken and camber broken in game currently. As a tuner from gt5 is there any other crucial issues with tuning i am not aware of? and Is the rest of the tuning I.E. engine, trans, lsd, ect the same or is it different too? i'm asking because Most of the tuning info im reading is from earlier patches and it seems 1.04 didnt do alot to help the game. Any help would be appreciated. And is there a difference between online and offline tunes like in gt5? Thank you guys for any input.

 

[DolHaus]

Ok thank you gentlemen for this basic tuning guide. I have been reading over the forums for 2 days trying to wrap my head around all the changes in gt6.Back story I was an avid gt5 player i just bought gt6 anniversary edition. I bought 3 days ago. i have patched version 1.04 after reading for days this is what i have learned. Flat floors broken and camber broken in game currently. As a tuner from gt5 is there any other crucial issues with tuning i am not aware of? and Is the rest of the tuning I.E. engine, trans, lsd, ect the same or is it different too? i'm asking because Most of the tuning info im reading is from earlier patches and it seems 1.04 didnt do alot to help the game. Any help would be appreciated. And is there a difference between online and offline tunes like in gt5? Thank you guys for any input.

Apart from camber, nothing else seems to be broken. There's a few subtle changes in everything else (gt5 tunes may not work), but its more or less the same. 4WD/FF are a lot more fun now and no longer feel welded to the track. My only real pointer would be that weight transfer is now a much bigger issue in suspension tuning.
Good luck, happy tuning

 

[Nismo4Life82]

Thank you very much DolHaus. You are doing a huge service to gt6 tuners new and old alike. Your sir are a gentlemen and a scholar.

 

[DolHaus]

Thank you very much DolHaus. You are doing a huge service to gt6 tuners new and old alike. Your sir are a gentlemen and a scholar.

Thank you kindly, I hope the guide helped and I wish you all the best for the future

 

[DolHaus]

bump

 

[shadowXdrifter]

Thank you. Theres a lot of valuable information out there but a lot of it goes far too deep for the majority of tuners. Some of it still goes straight over my head and I know a fair bit about the principles and theories behind suspension tuning. I intended this guide to be accessible for the majority of tuners rather than just the experts. Most people just need a nudge in the right direction and they will soon learn what is possible through tuning.
I may write a piece on how the suspension components work during the various stages of cornering and the forces involved. It all depends on whether I can find a way to simplify what is quite a complicated subject involving all sorts of maths and science. Hopefully I can figure it out, I think it could be a useful next step in helping people understand what they're trying to do

Yea the information definitely dives a little too deep at times and can sometimes become confusing, either way, if you do decide to create the posts on what happens to the suspension when cornering, i'd be 1 of the first to read it. Keep up the good work man, I look forward to seeing your next set of posts.