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Discussion in 'GT6 Tuning' started by DolHaus, Jan 16, 2014.
Congrats on sticky
thanks mate, came as a bit of a surprise
Obviously been noticed and appreciated by those that matter.
Saves me bumping the post at least lol
I'm going to have to rewrite a few bits and make additions so its all a bit clearer and more accurate but I'm glad people are finding it useful.
They probably got sick of you bumping it
Is anybody interested in a tuning encyclopedia with all the tuning info and guides built into a PDF with pictures, etc? If so I'll start one. Then maybe if it gets completed the tuners with guides could put the file in their OP or something? Just thinking aloud here.
That does sound like a great idea, combining all of the guides into one package would certainly be useful
(Please note: I'm going to be updating this one soon (maybe this week?) so hold off on any copy/pasting from here for the time being)
I think it would be a great idea , if I can help out, just give me a shout, I should hear you from the moon. I've done some tests on ride height with different settings, all recorded data, would be more than happy to contribute. (didn't use my anti-gravity car for this)
Just before reading this I was doing the copy/paste thing. I don't mind erasing some stuff if it's to help me be a better tuner. I was looking for your garage (used the fun search function) when I saw this thread, real nice and helpful, thanks. Is that moustache the right color? And by the way, the seat of the stratos was already soiled before I used it.
I won't be changing anything major so don't worry, I might make some further notes but the original content will stay unchanged.
This is my race tuning garage https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/haus-of-flying-daggers-accepting-requests.301978/ and this is my drift garage https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/drift-haus-tuning-garage.302396/
I sat on some chocolate, honest lol
17/03/2014- Some minor updates made to the OP, nothing major has changed but I've just added a few notes to help with understanding parts and function and given the whole thing a polish to make it easier to read
Big thank you to @FussyFez for sorting out the banners, they really help to complete the guide and hopefully will draw more people in
My pleasure, good sir
This may sound really dumb but i think ive had hard and soft mixed up since the start. Is lv 1 soft or stiff with lv 10 the other? I always thought the higher the stiffer but car doesnt react like that. Descriptions have always suxd in game so thanks in advance.
Yeh 1 should be softest and 10 should be stiffest.
Great guide, easy to understand the basics. Thanks again!
Great guide thank you so much for the effort taken into it!
I do have one question though:
- Let's take an example that I'm tuning my LSD, since most tuning guides for any simulation racing game states that it's essential to change one thing at the time, how much do you jump from one value to other and then test? same question applies to springs. do you jump 2 clicks each time and then fine tune?
hope made my question clear enough have a good day.
The first stage is to analyse the stock LSD, take it out for a spin before you put the custom one on and concentrate on the three key areas:-
(I will describe a RWD layout because its easier to explain)
Initial setting: This is easiest to analyse when the car is rolling without throttle or braking applied. Take it into a corner, lift off and turn in, concentrate on how the back end of the car feels in terms of rotation. If it doesn't want to turn then the number is too high, if it feels loose and unstable then the number is too low. This setting also affects how aggresively the Diff kicks in but I will cover that below.
Acceleration sensitivity: This is easiest to analyse coming out of a corner with full throttle applied. Concentrate on how the rear wheels behave when accelerating out of a bend. If the car pushes wide on exit or spins the tires up then the number is too high, if it feels like its lacking power and/or spins the inside rear tyre then the number is too low.
Braking sensitivity: This is easiest to analyse coming into a hard braking zone whilst turning. Concentrate on how the rear wheels behave under braking conditions and how much rotation is possible during the act. If the car won't turn then the number is too high, if it feels loose and unstable then the number is too low.
Now install the custom LSD and match the stock settings if possible. If the stock LSD has unreachable or strange numbers then you should start with a base setting of 12/30/12.
I generally adjust it by 4 clicks to start with, then 2, then 1. Its generally a good idea to start fairly big and then half it then half it again until you find the sweet spot. This way you will be able to home in on the desired setting efficiently and accurately. With experience you will learn roughly where to start depending on the overall characteristics, on some cars I will start by knocking off or increasing by 10 or 20 straight away because I know that is what it needs to perform as I want it to, but I'd recommend going gently while learning.
When it comes to suspension I start by first matching the spring rate to the tyres. If you imagine the slider bar indicating spring rates divided into 9 roughly equal sections, each of these sections represents a particular tyre starting with Comfort Hard on the left and ending in Racing Soft on the right. Now you have a rough starting point to help find the ideal spring rate for that tyre. I would bring the slider into that area and test drive it to make sure it felt right. When it comes to how much you should increase/decrease by I would start with 2kg and then 1kg, 0.5kg, 0.25 kg etc. as described with the LSD settings.
This method basically applies to all suspension/lsd adjustments, you just need to go back and forward in measured amounts until you find the ideal setting, slowly refining and learning as you go.
Glad you are finding the guide useful, I hope this answer helps, feel free to ask any further questions you may have.
Best of luck
Thank you so much for the detailed explanation mate with this now the guide makes even more sense and I'm beginning to understand where to look and how to fine tune way more than my previous tuning attempts.
I'm collecting as much information and tips as i can and putting all of them in one wrapped guide to be placed next to me when trying to address a base tune or correcting an obvious faulty behavior.
I really wish GT has tire Temp readings to scientifically judge the tune mechanical grip progress while in and out of the corner. Telemetry and a fetch logger would also help judge the way the suspension is travelling and if the ride height and spring combination is still in the safe zone. In Gt is all up to visual decisions and spring feeling fed to you through the steering ffb, I really lack on a vital weapon any good driver should have is to feedback what happened exactly there and get confused and usually blame myself as if it is a driving error (I'm a decent driver mind you).
But with your guide around things are becoming way easier, Thank you again
No problem at all, glad to help.
It would indeed be nice to have telemetry and load feedback from the suspension, it would make problem solving much easier. Unfortunately I don't think we are likely to be getting this so we have to do it the old fashioned way using our eyes, ears and lap times.
When tuning suspension I generally look at how flat the car stays whilst driving it, if it dives under braking or squats during acceleration then the springs need stiffening, once thats in the right area I look at the amount of body roll again using the same basic method. If you are stiffening the car and you start hearing a chittering sound from the tyres then that means you have stiffened it too much and the car is bouncing and the tyres are getting overloaded so soften it up a bit until it stops. Remember that the dampers can be used to get rid of body roll without affecting the front/rear balance too much so they should be your next target once the springs are about right.
I believe @XS was planning on compiling all the tuning guides into one file at some point for easy access
Very amazing topic, thank you
I see people mention in other threads about the ride height effect being incorrect or something. Could anybody clarify?
Not incorrect - just reversed as some say.
The ride height is a little counter intuitive. Its commonly believed that if you raise the rear ride height that this should make the car more tail happy but the opposite is true due to the way the car physics is worked out in GT.
Basically, the way it works is changing the ride height at either end moves the centre of rotation and mass of the car backwards or forwards depending on which end is higher.
If you lift the front then the rotation point moves further towards the back making the car easier to rotate. If you lift the rear then this will move the point of rotation forwards and make the car harder to rotate enhancing stability. There is a cut off in performance improvement past a certain point because the point of rotation is too far back so don't assume using extreme differences will lead to instant improvement, like all elements of tuning its about finding the right balance.
It works in a similar fashion to (and in conjunction with) ballast by making either end of the car heavier or lighter when in motion without affecting the static weight distribution.
Hope that makes sense
Yes, GT6's gravity values are much too low so this makes sense.
First off let me say Great Guide you have here. I have used this as a reference a lot when i get confused while tuning. I do have a question about LSD tho. In the guide you have above about LSD, does this also work for 4wd cars as well, in both front and back LSD settings? Im sure there are some answers to this on GTplanet if i searched around but i wanted to ask you because i appreciate the way you break things down nice and simple. Also because i use your guide a lot so i wanted to hear your view on 4wd so i know its related to whats written above. Thank you for your time and hard work!
Also i wanted to know if it was ok if i copy/pasted some things out of your guide for my own personal tuning guide I'm building for myself. I will not share or post My tuning guide on GTP or anywhere else with out talking to you first and making sure its ok with you. I would of course give credit to you as well if u OK'd it too. but i don't see myself posting any guides anytime soon. hahaha.
again thank you!
Excellent read. Beginner tuners would benefit greatly from this, very clear and descriptive buddy
Basically yes, the rear differential on a 4wd setup will function and respond in the same way as a RWD car, it can be used to gain/lose stability for the rear of the car and adjust how efficiently power is delivered to the road via those wheels.
The Front differential is a little bit different because of its positioning and function. Being at the front of the car it is less influential on stability, its main function is ensuring smooth and controlled power delivery to the front wheels and preventing wheelspin and loss of traction. Its all about efficiency of power usage.
The same basic principals still apply, Initial still controls how the car rotates when off the throttle, Accel still controls how the car rotates and delivers power when on the throttle and Decel still controls how that set of wheels behaves under braking. The idea is to get as much power to the ground as possible without generating wheelspin, if you break traction on the front wheels then you won't be able to turn properly because of the massive decrease in grip. At the same time as minimising wheelspin you want to ensure that you are efficiently deploying power in order to make use of the extra traction gained by having all four wheels powered, you want to be able to use the front wheels to pull the car out of corners.
To get the best from it I would advise spending some time playing with the LSD on an FF car, that way you can learn how the different setting affect things and how they can be used to your advantage. The Initial should generally be quite low (slightly higher on high powered cars to smooth out the power delivery and prevent instant wheelspin) to allow the front wheels to go where you point them unhindered. The Accel is where you will spend most of your time, start around 30 and get a baseline feeling then try moving it 10 points up or down and see what effect it has had on the front end when trying to accelerate out of corners while turning. The Decel should be fairly low as well, often identical to your Initial settings unless there is an obvious problem with the car either not wanting to turn under braking or if the car feels like it wants to rotate around the front axle.
Yeah that's fine, no worries, copy and paste to your hearts content. If you do wish to publish anything publicly in the future then as long as you contact me first so I can proof read and make sure its correct and cite your sources then I have no issues with it, I'm happy to help where I can. Hope this makes sense and all the best with your future projects, if you have any further questions or thoughts then feel free to share them.
Thank you, I'm glad it helps beginners get their heads around things as they're the ones who need the most help
Thanks @DolHaus for taking the time to give a detailed answer. I really appreciate it. Im definitely taking down notes from the things you have to share. And i promise to contact you first if i do post anything publicly.
BTW i did what you told me about learning LSD on a FF car to help with understanding setting the LSD for a 4WD car. Great tip! I am a more hands on person than just reading about something and playing around with the LSD on a FF has totally given me a better idea on the effects the settings have for the front LSD and back LSD.
Thanks again! have a good one bro
I have a question: what do I adjust to temper this weird one-wheel wheelspin that happens to FF and classic Muscle cars when cornering?