General Tuning Guide (Updated 1.09)

Discussion in 'GT6 Tuning' started by DolHaus, Jan 16, 2014.

  1. Thorin Cain

    Thorin Cain Premium

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    Hello again @DolHaus. Obviously you will be extremely busy right now(As we all are:banghead: :D), With the Version 1.09 update arriving and bringing us some new physics changes for us to deal with. It's pretty clear that the following changes have brought with them some new variables for us to consider.

    • The dynamics of the car on surfaces with cornerstones and bumps have been improved
    • The effect of the tyre geometry has been changed (mainly for the “Camber Angle” option)
    • The handling of some rear heavy cars has been improved
    • The default settings of the tuning parts have also been adjusted to match the above changes.
    They have also brought up some interesting observations and results in the
    1.09 update physics changes theradand the Camber Theory thread, which I have been pretty much glued to recently. The tuning community is abuzz right now and I think as usual, you have a good grasp of what implications these changes have for us in relation to tuning our cars to make the best of these new physics changes.

    So I was wondering if you wouldn't mind, when your busy schedule allows of course, taking a bit of your valuable time to answer(Or expand on) some of the questions/observations the community have been mulling over, in here?

    There is as always, a lot of background noise with that many questions and answers going on at the same time as all of test results and tips. And it's great to see everyone chipping in to help each other out, but I fear some of the important points may fade into the ether in those threads. And I think it would be a big help to have your thoughts and answers in one place. And where better?:tup:

    I have been reading the above threads quite a bit and I have a few questions I would like to ask you about some of the the observations and finer details that I feel are very important, that yourself and others have made. Some of the points as usual I think I have a decent grasp on and as always there are some which I don't know if I fully understand or not.

    I have been thinking a lot about some of the points raised, and some of them since our previous discussions on camber and LSD adjustments in particular. And I have been thinking of trying to refine my own tuning process, as some of the things that I have learned recently have had a big impact on some of my tunes and I think that they are about to become more important with all of the physics changes. The cars just don't drive the same any more and the same settings still work ok but there is much more to be had I feel, in terms of lap-times and driving pleasure.:D

    So I guess I would like to propose a sort of unofficial question and answer session of sorts. If that is something that would consider? This is after all your Guide thread, so If not I completely understand. But my thinking was, I would like to ask for your thoughts about some of the observations made, what they actually mean when you are tuning the areas covered and of course the impact that these have on the tuning process itself.

    My thinking is, I have a lot of tunes posted and I will be going back over them all to try and adapt them to this new improved physics engine. And I would like to be able to do a little "How to"guide in my thread to help users adapt the older ones I haven't got to yet, while I'm working my way through them.

    I also think it could give you the chance to go a little deeper into the tuning options as I know you like to do and it can give some more information to your regular visitors that they might be looking for round about now. You could possibly even use your answers to do a more "technical section" of your guide in the future if that is something you have ever given any thought to. :gtpflag:

    So, What do you think?
     
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  2. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Sounds good, I'm happy to try and explain my thoughts on the new physics updates as best I can.

    I've considered making a more detailed tuning guide in the past but its a ton of work, a lot of things need illustration to better explain the principals so I would need to spend a lot of time getting it all put together. I may have the time later on in the year to write a more thorough guide but work tends to get in the way in the summer. Answering some questions here will give me material to copy and paste at a later date so I guess it will save me some work in the long run.

    If anyone has any questions about the physics or how to approach a problem then feel free to ask. I will do my best to answer them and/or reference them to another trusted tuner who I think will be able to give a more detailed answer.
     
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  3. Thorin Cain

    Thorin Cain Premium

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    Yeah, I imagine the amount of time and effort that would need to go into a more comprehensive guide would be huge. And everything gets in the way in the summer, it's hard to stay inside in this country when the sun comes out to play. Doesn't happen very often so we need to enjoy it when it does:p

    I am glad you are happy to do it. I'm looking forward to learning a lot from this:tup:

    I guess my first question should really cover the "topic of the day" Camber. Obviously this is the main issue we are going to be dealing with as a community....again! (But at least we're all pulling in the same direction this time;)) And I was reading about the relationship between camber and toe in maintaining or obtaining the right shape of contact patch during each phase of a corner. Once more I find that the idea makes a lot of sense but I was wondering if there are any general rules of thumb when adjusting these two settings to achieve the correct contact patch?
     
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  4. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    @Thorin Cain

    Tyre Dynamics/Contact Patch


    Why do different tyres have different levels of grip?

    A tyres level of grip is determined by two factors:-

    Tread Pattern/Surface area: This is the amount of rubber in contact with the road at any given moment. The more rubber touching the road, the more potential grip you have. This is determined by the tread pattern of the tyre which varies in GT6 in 3 categories:-


    Comfort: Comfort tyres represent standard road tyres such as you would find on normal everyday cars. These have a tread pattern designed to allow for a multitude of driving conditions. There are deep lines and patterns cut into the surface that allow for good water dispersal as well as adequate grip on loose surfaces such as gravel or shallow mud. A down side of this is that the total surface area is reduced substantially, all those cuts and grooves are gaps where the tyre isn't touching the road and therefore not aiding traction.

    Sports: Sports tyres represent the kind of tyre you would find on performance cars and road legal track cars. These have a tread pattern that is less deep and there is less pattern across the surface. This means that it will have a higher surface area because more rubber is touching the road at any given moment giving it higher potential traction. The downside is that the reduced pattern and depth means that they will have less grip on loose surfaces and a lower capacity for water dispersal.

    Racing: Racing tyres represent what you would see fitted during a high level professional racing event. These tyres have almost no tread pattern and therefore offer the highest surface area and grip possible. As a downside they will not work on anything except perfect track conditions. The lack of tread means that water can not be adequately dispersed and the tyre will skate over the top of loose gravel and debris offering almost zero grip.


    Compound: To illustrate this point I always find a water balloon to be the easiest to relate to example.

    Imagine you have three balloons, one filled with water, one filled with flour and one filled with water and flour.

    The one filled with flour represents a hard compound of rubber, if you poke it it will deform a little but you have to push fairly hard. If you stab it with a pin not much will happen.

    The one filled with water represents a soft compound of tyre. It is very malleable an can be deformed easily but if you stab it with a pin it pops very easily.

    The one filled with flour and water represents a medium tyre. It resists being deformed less than flour but more than water and if you stab it with a pin it will slowly drain out rather than explode.


    Hard: A hard compound tyre is made from a stronger and less flexible compound of rubber. This means that it is very resistant to the abrasive nature of constantly being rubbed against the track and will have a longer potential lifespan. As a downside of the rubber being tougher and less flexible means it cannot deform to fit the road surface efficiently which will reduce the total surface area of the tyre.

    Medium: A medium compound tyre is a compromise between the flexibility of the material and the resistance to abrasion. It will deform to fit the surface better than the hard compound and offer more total surface area but will also degrade degrade quicker through use giving it a shorter potential lifespan.

    Soft: A soft compound tyre is focussed purely on performance and has a high level of deformation which gives it the highest total surface area and potential grip. The downside of this is that it will degrade far faster than the others giving it the shortest potential life span.


    This combination of tyre pattern and compound gives a total surface area which we use to gauge how much traction a tyre has and from this we can determine how much total force a tyre can take before slipping.

    Because a tyre is round, there is only a small amount of this total surface area in use at any time. The amount of this total surface area that we can use is determined by what is known as the contact patch.


    What is a contact patch?


    The tyres are quite obviously the only point of contact between the track surface and the vehicle you are driving. They are arguably the most important part of how a car accelerates, brake and steers, without them driving would be impossible. For this reason I believe that it is important to discuss what they do and how they do it.


    The most important part of a tyre is what is known as the Contact Patch, this is quite simply where the rubber hits the road, the cars footprint so to speak. The contact patch describes the size and shape of this area, and this in turn dictates how hard you can accelerate, brake and turn.

    0.0 Contact.jpg

    The size of the contact patch is determined by a very simple equation:

    Load/Tyre PSI = Contact patch area


    Because PSI (tyre pressure) is one of the parameters of this equation and we have no option for altering this, we have to accept that we cannot manually alter the size of the contact patch.

    We must also assume that when we change the weight of the car (Load) that the tyre pressure is automatically changed to keep the size of the contact patch constant for the style (Comfort/Sports/Racing) and compound (Hard/Med/Soft).


    If we can't increase or decrease the size of the contact patch then what is the point of camber?

    Well, we may not be able to alter the size of the contact patch but we can change the shape of it to better suit our needs and enhance our potential performance in various situations.

    We use what is known as the “Circle of Traction” in conjunction with tyre data to show how the shape of the contact patch will affect our potential grip level when in motion.


    Traction wheel.jpg

    Here we have a circular diagram that shows all of the forces encountered while driving using G-Forces as a measure.

    As a simplified example, if we have a tyre that can take a maximum total force of 1.5 G before breaking traction and we are accelerating with a force of 1 G, this means we still have 0.5 G worth of grip to corner with before we start losing grip.

    Lets imagine we have a car that can produce 0.8 G of acceleration when going from 0-60. Its currently using a hard tyre that can handle a total of 0.5 G, when we nail the accelerator we will get wheel spin because the force is exceeding the grip limit. Now we put a Soft tyre on that has a 1.0 G grip limit, when we nail the throttle this time the car grips immediately and accelerates at 0.8 G. We are getting maximum traction because we are operating within the tyres limits. If we attempt the same test again on the soft tyre but this time attempt to turn left or right while accelerating we will again experience wheel spin because we are adding force in the form of lateral G to the equation and exceeding the tyres limitations.

    When we use camber we are changing the shape of our contact patch to best suit the forces acting upon the tyres, we cannot change the total amount of grip but we can change the percentage of that total grip that is available in a particular axis.

    Lets now have a look at what camber is doing in order to achieve this.


    Camber Theory


    What is Camber?

    Camber is, in its simplest form, the amount of lean a wheel has in relation to the vertical angle when viewed from the front or rear of the car.

    Active 0.0.jpg
    In the image above we have a car displaying 0.0 camber, this means that when the car is at rest (no extra forces acting on the suspension) the wheels are aligned vertically at 90° to the road surface.

    Negative camber.jpg
    This car is showing what is known as negative camber. This means that the wheels are leaning in towards the body at the top and away at the bottom. This is the kind of camber we can set in GT6 using the tuning options.

    Positive camber.jpg
    Here we have a car displaying positive camber. This means that the bottom of the wheels lean in towards the body further than the tops. We cannot set positive camber in the tuning options but we do sometimes encounter it whilst driving.


    Why do we use camber?

    To simplify as much as possible, we use camber to alter the way the tyre contacts the ground to maximise its efficiency and grip during various phases of driving. There are a multitude of forces to consider so I will try to explain them as we go.

    Contactpatches.jpg

    Here we see how the downward force of gravity is working on the tyres in various states of camber.


    0.0 Contact.jpg
    Here we see that the wheel is perpendicular (at 90°) to the road surface and the downward forces are acting equally across the face of the tyre. This gives us a contact patch that is wider than it is long.

    If we take this contact patch and compare it with our circle of traction we will begin to understand which conditions this shape suits best.

    Contactpatch1.jpg
    In the diagram we see that the contact patch can take higher lateral (left/right) stresses but reduced linear (Accel/Decel) limits. This means that the car will have improved grip during hard cornering but reduced grip available for acceleration and braking. Ideally we want our tyres contact patch to be this shape near the apex of a corner. Conversely this shape is not ideally suited to straight line acceleration or braking where the linear forces are higher.

    5.0 Contact.jpg
    Here we see a negatively cambered wheel, it is leaning towards the inside edge so the downward forces are collecting on that side. If the wheel was positively cambered then the forces would be acting on the outside edge instead. The contact patch is now longer than it is wide, it is the same amount of surface area exhibited in a different shape.

    If we consult our traction wheel again we will see where the strengths and weaknesses lie.
    Contactpatch2.jpg In the diagram we see that the contact patch can take higher linear (Accel/Decel) stresses but reduced lateral (left/right) limits. This means that the car will have improved grip during acceleration and braking but reduced amounts of cornering grip. Ideally we want our tyres contact patch to be this shape when we are accelerating down the straights or braking in a straight line.

    By changing our camber settings in the tuning options we have changed the shape of our contact patch while the car is sat still in the garage, this is what is known as Static Camber.

    Next we need to see how camber angle is changed when forces are applied to the car during what is known as Active Camber


    What is Active Camber?


    The term active camber basically describes the way that camber angle changes in relation to forces acting on the suspension and changing its geometry. It is important to remember that a suspension system is basically a bunch of frames attached to the chassis at fixed points that allow the wheels to move up and down independently.
    Active 0.0.jpg
    Here we see a car with 0.0° of static camber. While the suspension is at rest in a neutrally loaded position defined by the ride height the wheels are parallel to the car body. The suspension mounting points (black dots) are fixed points and cannot move. The suspension arms (purple) can move in an arc around these mounting points but are solid so cannot extend or compress. The red thing is the spring/damper combo which can move in the same way as the suspension arms but can compress/extend when needed. The wheel mount (grey) works independently of the chassis but is connected by the suspension arms.
    Active -5.0.jpg

    Here we see the same car being pushed into the ground by downward forces which are causing the springs/dampers to compress and the geometry of the suspension to change. Because of the way the suspension is designed the car gains negative camber during compression.

    Active +5.0.jpg If we apply the opposite forces we see that the car has gained positive camber during suspension/damper extension.

    Generally the amount of positive camber gained during extension is less than the amount of negative camber gained during compression due to the way the angles work. I will save the theories of suspension geometry for another day though.

    During cornering the suspension can be simultaneously experiencing extension and compression on different sides of the car and both positive and negative camber as a result.
    ActiveCornering.jpg
    Here we see a car turning right which is causing compression on the outside (left) wheels and extension on the inside (right) wheels. The suspension is designed to keep both wheels in contact with the road as best as possible at all times.

    Another thing we notice in the picture above is that the tyre is always directly below the car body in relation to the road. This is important because of the extra leverage forces gain during body roll.


    What is body roll?


    Body roll is a side effect of lateral (sideways) forces being changed into vertical (up and down) forces by the suspension during cornering. The weight distribution shifts across the car sideways and essentially makes one side heavier than the other.

    As a rule, all force is lazy and always takes the shortest route between A – B, usually in the form of a straight line

    Weight.jpg

    As we can see above, when the car is level and stationary the downward force of gravity acts equally across the width of the car.


    Weight2.jpg
    Here we can see a car turning right and encountering body roll. The body is leaning out over the tyre on the left hand side and because the forces are travelling straight down they are forming a leverage point which is helping to lift the inside wheel and reduce overall grip.

    In real life this would usually result in a roll over if the cornering forces were high enough but in GT this would be more difficult to achieve, I think the gravity value is a little bit low in the physics engine. While the roll over might not be a risk in game, the resultant potential for grip loss is still a factor


    How does camber affect body roll?


    One of the effects of camber that is most visibly obvious is that it widens the track (axle width) or stance of the car. If the bottom of the wheel is sticking 1” further out with camber than it was at 0.0 then you have effectively widened the base of the car by 2” overall.

    This means that the car would have to lean over even further in order to create the same negative leverage effect as before.
    Weight1b.jpg
    Now we can see that the wheels are directly underneath the downward forces which allows them to do a better job of opposing them. The weight is also pushing down on the tyre and forcing the contact patch of the tyre into the preferable wide/short pattern which is suited to cornering.


    Will changing the track width of my car affect anything else?


    This is a bit of a tricky one to explain as the physics involve a baffling amount of variables that vary from car to car. Some cars are wider at the front and some are wider at the rear by design for various reasons involving weight distribution and natural handling characteristics. It basically affects how a car will rotate.

    I can only attempt to show you visually what I am talking about when discussing track width so you have some idea what is going on.
    Track.jpg
    Here we see a few illustrations to show how track width affects a car visually, it basically means that one set of wheels is following a different path to the other. The effects of this are very complicated and there are a colosal amount of variables that could affect the outcome on different cars so I will not be discussing this in depth.

    The most common theory is that the car should be wider at the driven wheels to promote stability and traction but this is not always true so don't take it as a fact. My advice would be to try it each way and see which feels better on you.


    What are the major points to consider when tuning my car with camber?

    Overall aim – We are aiming to use camber to get the best possible contact patch on the road at any given moment. We want it to be leaning on the inside edge of the tyre when travelling in a straight line and spreading the load when cornering to give us the most useful grip when we need it.


    Camber angle – There is no such thing as a perfect angle for all cars and all conditions. Pick a sensible number in relation to the fitted tyres, set it equally at both ends of the car. Take the car for a few laps and see how it performs. Increase or decrease the numbers equally and try again, if it performs better then keep moving in that direction, if it feels worse then try the other way. Once you feel you've found the best number, try adjusting the front and rear independently and look for any improvements. Sometimes the best results will be with equal front and back, sometimes it will be better when they're at vastly different figures, it all depends how your car is setup and what you want it to do.

    Tyres-
    Different types of tyres work better between certain values in the same way that springs do.

    Comfort: Between 0.0 - 2.0Sport: Between 1.0 -3.0
    Racing: Between 2.0 - 4.0


    Ride height -
    This setting may be called ride height but in this context it should be treated more like the amount of suspension travel. The higher the ride height, the more the suspension geometry will change and add negative camber during compression. The lower the ride height, the more constant the angles are.

    Springs/Dampers/ARB - Much like the ride height, these settings will directly affect how much active camber is gained during compression by controlling the amount of movement in the suspension. As before stiffer settings will reduce the amount of geometry change and softer settings will increase it.

    Toe angle – When we change the angle of a wheel in one axis we affect other settings that also rely on angles to perform. Toe angles may change in feel when camber is applied and may also need adjusting. My general thought would be to reduce toe angle as more camber is applied.

    Track Surface: If the track you are racing on has banked/cambered corners then you may wish to run a little less camber than you would on a flat track in order to maintain your contact patch.

    Rim Size - I'll only mention this briefly as I cannot confirm or deny if it is modelled in the game. The theory is that a the taller tyre sidewall that you would find on a standard size rim is more flexible and easier to deform than the shorter stiffer sidewall you would have on a +2” rim. Always worth checking when you are looking to put the finishing touch on your setup.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2014
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  5. GTP_Richtofen

    GTP_Richtofen

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    Sorry if you already answered what I'm asking, i must have missed it. BUTT (hehe:rolleyes:) now that Camber works, is what you have written into your guide relevant to gt6? Sorry I'm not trying to say anything bad about your guide. I want to use it, i just wanted to make sure that you think everything you wrote will work. because it looks like you wrote it prior to camber working
     
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  6. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    I am in the process of updating it at the moment. Just running tests to find out how it is working in game before writing anything up. What is written there is accurate enough information but I need to explain the ideas a little more thoroughly to show how they can be put into practice, I will try and get it edited as soon as possible.
    I will be answering @Thorin Cain 's question in the post above tomorrow which will go into the theory a little more in depth as to what camber is supposed to be achieving.
    :gtpflag:
     
  7. GTP_Richtofen

    GTP_Richtofen

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    GREAT:p!!! Goodluck to you and thank you for making the guide and all the tunes. Don't know how you do it, but its amazing for people like me!
     
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  8. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    Yes, @DolHaus we are all impatiently waiting!:p But seriously, I'm looking forward to what you find out. I'm deep into the rpm/torque engine curve comparisons at the moment and will be one of the first in line to test your camber readings/setups...anything to try and gain an edge in the next FITT challenge.:sly: You've definitely earned a spot as a well respected tuner in my book.:bowdown:
     
  9. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Thank you
    Its going to take a little while to explain unfortunately, there are a lot of little changes that need to be taken in to consideration when dealing with something that seems quite simple on the surface. I'm first going to have to explain how tyre contact patches come into effect as that is a major part of what is going on, also explaining the effects of active camber and cornering physics.
    In short, its easier to implement than explain
     
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  10. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    Yeah, I'm not much of one for knowing the ins and outs of a cows backside, but I'm sure the smarter tuners and tweekers will appreciate it...not that I won't, but you know what I mean.:odd: I just want to be confident that if I do "blank" it will help the car do "blank". Call me lazy, but that was one of the things I liked about Hami's GT5 guide, he explained well and kept it easy for the simple folk like me!:dopey:
     
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  11. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Unfortunately this is going to be the problem with camber in general, it doesn't strictly improve traction in any way, it only changes the way the existing traction is used from a physics perspective. There will be basic rules and trends to how it is implemented but there are an awful lot of variables to consider so a concrete answer is impossible.
     
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  12. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Dear god, I'm already 10 pages deep in notes and I'm only 3/4's the way to an explanation!
     
  13. Thorin Cain

    Thorin Cain Premium

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    Sorry dude, I know it's a very important part, if not the most important of what we tuners do here. But I never realised it would be such a pain:banghead:

    Bet your wishing I hadn't asked now.
     
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  14. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    A tiny bit, yes!
    Its ok though, I needed to get it done eventually and this was the push to get the ball rolling. The problem is that contact patches and camber theory are hugely important and affect every aspect of suspension tuning, the contact patch is what is leading to a ton of background theory because it is EVERYTHING!
    All interactions between car and road go through these 4 tiny patches, everything we do goes through them. Its crazy once you start to look into it, the rabbit hole goes deeper and deeper and deeper but always ends up in the same place - the physical interaction between car/tyre/track.
    I'm enjoying it though, I'm learning a lot and it will give me stuff to help explain other theories later on. Unfortunately as a starting place its sort of like a friend asking for a lift to the station and then it turns out in order to do this simple task you first have to build the car, lay the roads and then construct the station lol
     
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  15. GTP_Richtofen

    GTP_Richtofen

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    Just want to let you know that my friends and I appreciate your tuning guides zoo much! All the time and effort you put into it really pays off when it comes to helping others like us that don't even know what camber is. so THANK YOU!!! xoxo
     
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  16. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    You are quite welcome, glad to help.
    Explaining camber is going to be tricky but I think I'm getting there now, unfortunately there is not going to be a simple "Do this = this happens" answer but more of a series of ideas to try
     
  17. Thorin Cain

    Thorin Cain Premium

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    Yeah, sorry about that!
    I did get the impression that this would be ever so slightly important. I know that the contact patch is critical to getting the best from the car, I just have no Idea how to best use the relationship between camber and toe to achieve it. And believe me I have been trying, every time I think I'm on to something, something else needs changed. Change that and it's back a step with everything else, it really is a bit :banghead:

    I really appreciate your efforts and I look forward to seeing what you have discovered. I know it'll be informative and who knows, it may even go quite some way to answering some other questions too by the sounds of it. I am glad though, that you are enjoying it at least. :cheers:
     
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  18. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    As long as it's written in crayon, I should be able to understand!:dunce:
     
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  19. rams1de

    rams1de

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    That should just about suffice for a general tuning guide.

    I think the value of this guide is keeping it a simple resource for quick reference, remember the first paragraph in the OP. Save the complex theory for other threads, after all much it can't be substantiated in game.

    I'm sure the target audience would be better served with information that will produce tangible gains in lap times or maintaining lap times when tyre wear is a factor. There remains plenty of scope, transmission tuning for instance can yield great gains for a few minutes adjustment with a simple tranny flip and guidance for reducing tyre wear can be worth seconds to drivers in online racing series.
     
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  20. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Yeah I know, I'm writing up the theory in full for a side project but will be putting just the key points in the OP. There are improvements to be had but there is no set way of getting them so I need to explain this as simply as I can for the casual tuners, I can't just say that this setting does nothing because that would be untrue.
     
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  21. GTP_Richtofen

    GTP_Richtofen

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    :yuck:PHUUTTUWIIEE i was afraid of that. Oh well, if its anything like the rest of your guide it will be easy to read and apply. So far all i understand is that you can increase camber with better tires. right? hehe:p
     
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  22. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Sort of.
    You can generally run higher camber numbers if your suspension is stiffer and you generally associate stiffer suspension with grippier tyres. I'd say the cap for effective camber is between 3.0-4.0 at the very highest , anything above this would be more for looks than performance
     
  23. GTP_Richtofen

    GTP_Richtofen

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Thats speaking my language:p! It makes things soooooo much easier having base rules, like that, for each part u can tune. I can't wait to show my roomy (roommate:p) that. She seems to claim you can/should run higher camber (6/7/8) on cars with 600pp and up^.... But than again, she knows everything:p

    Ya Thats what i said. . .:rolleyes: (everyone nods there head)
     
  24. DolHaus

    DolHaus

    Messages:
    3,865
    Location:
    England
    Running high degrees of camber is not unheard of, real life touring cars and V8 Australian super cars occasionally run up to 8 degrees on the front wheels at certain circuits. I believe there are other variables such as tyre pressure and profile at play to make those settings work though, in GT6 we have to deal with the tyre as a constant entity (cannot change pressure or shape of wheel). For these reasons I wouldn't recommend going much over 3.0, I'm not saying it can't work but it would be an extremely specialised setup.
    A cars performance level is in no way related to the amount of camber used, its more to do with how the rest of the suspension is set up to use the camber. All camber does is change the shape of the contact patch of a tyre to better deal with either lateral load (cornering) or linear load (accelerating/braking). It cannot change the total amount of grip available, only change how that grip is used.
     
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  25. DolHaus

    DolHaus

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Main guide updated and Camber theory now added (its a few posts back, you can't miss it lol)
     
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  26. Thorin Cain

    Thorin Cain Premium

    Messages:
    2,262
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    No kidding!?:lol:

    That's quite some reply, info fest. I've just had quick scan but I'm not awake enough for this. It's going to have to wait for a good 6-8 hours so I can recharge my batteries and fill myself with lots of coffee before I even try to tackle that. :tup:

    Thank you for the great amount of work you have put into this. I know It would have taken a long time to gather what you needed for this. I hope you learned some new information which helps Your tuning, I am sure I will. I just hope I can put it in to practice.:cheers:

    And Ok, plenty of words for me by the look of it. What do you think @Lionheart2113, enough crayon?:p
     
  27. DolHaus

    DolHaus

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Yeah, you're gonna need a good run up to tackle that one, I wasn't lying when I said it was complicated lol
    I've learned a lot and enjoyed it but it was tricky to write up because it covers so many subjects simultaneously. I didn't want to leave any important stones unturned but I also don't want to write a book on the subject lol
     
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  28. Motor City Hami

    Motor City Hami

    Messages:
    4,801
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    @DolHaus did you make the contact patch graphics yourself or pull those from a tuning book. I think the way that you are showing the tire contact patch is a bit misleading. This is what I would expect to see.

    [​IMG]

    Plus, showing the contact patch for the wheels in straight line position is less relevant that showing contact patches with the wheel turned and the vehicle under load. Maximizing grip with camber is most important under that condition.
     
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  29. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

    Messages:
    1,485
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    For the most part yeah, and it comes with pretty pictures!:dopey: Was just a little concerned that the oval shown for the contact patch might be a little skinny showing different ratios. But I'm not 100% sure of that, so don't worry too much based on what I say. It looks great @DolHaus and I appreciate all of the work you put into it and I'm sure others will too.
    You should have told me you needed drawings...I've got the 3 views of an Aston Martin drawn on ACAD, that was a :censored: to draw in that program. I'll be reading and re-reading this for the next week!!:tup:
     
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  30. GTP_Richtofen

    GTP_Richtofen

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Well done!:p Thank you! Im sure many people will find this very useful. And coming from someone that understands very little of the tuning aspect of this game, i say that ur guide is very understanding and easy to apply!
    Thanks again @DolHaus xoxo❤️
     
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