Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!

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GranTurismo guy
I would say the v6 engine. The standard and fan car use the same sample, except the standard is higher pitched because it revs higher. I believe the sound of the lotus is more accurately achieved at lower rpms, a lot lower than the fan cars rev limit actually. Can't remember at what rpm, but there is a sweet spot that sounds sufficiently familiar to the lotus. I would suggest that you have a ride I. Either of the cars, put them in their highest gear and just run them up the revs gradually to see what I mean.
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Which V6, though? They are different. ;)
Try them to see what I mean.

I can guarantee you I've done everything imaginable in auditioning those cars; they do sound different, and it's nothing to do with the samples (which are indeed the same, but you can barely hear the samples when you're racing).

Above about 9 000 rpm, it's mostly the sound of the exhaust pipe you can hear (which is grossly exaggerated, as I've said), and that is the same on all the Red Bull cars. The underlying engine exhaust sound is drowned out by the rasp. That's where we'll be driving the Lotus, also.

That lower rpm fidelity can be enjoyed everywhere once they dial down the exuberance on the exhaust simulation. That won't happen without the update.
 
We might have a breakthrough here gentlemen, after 15 long years it seems they finally released 3 cars with the right engine note! (judging from what people have been saying about the Senna content so far).

All we need is confirmation from youtube now.
 
mister dog
We might have a breakthrough here gentlemen, after 15 long years it seems they finally released 3 cars with the right engine note! (judging from what people have been saying about the Senna content so far).

All we need is confirmation from youtube now.
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Youtube may be a BAD way to confirm. There's compression, plus the good spatial sound distribution from GT become a mess.

@Griffith500 to the rescue. Please take a look! F3 sounds very similar to X2014 Jr (expected) but the 97T seems to be using very unique samples.
 
diegorborges
Youtube may be a BAD way to confirm. There's compression, plus the good spatial sound distribution from GT become a mess.
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It won't be perfect but it will at least give us a descent impression ;)

edit: these are my findings so far (need to listen some more though):
mister dog
It seems like they definitely re used the red bull samples for both the F3 and the Lotus, which is a good thing as those come close to the real thing and are miles better than what was on offer before, so at least the immersion isn't destroyed. I do find the downshifts a bit too digitalized and high pitched still in that typical GT way, but they did their best this time to make it sound descent enough.
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I might be just me, but the 97T manages to sound good and awful at the same time. The sound is good, it sounds like an angry F1 car. But what comes out of my headphones sounds like a really good recording of an F1 car played through a set of terrible, crackly car speakers.

It's better to listen to than vacuum cleaners, at least it conveys some of the passion of the car. It's a damn good start, and if all the cars in the game had that level of quality I think it'd be a big step up. But it's seriously unpleasant on the ears for any extended period.

Maybe it's intentional, I don't imagine standing next to the real car with no ear protection would be much fun. Standing near modern pre-2014 F1 cars is more about raw volume than the actual sound they make. But that's where the sound engineer has to work their magic, convey the character of the car without making the listener's ears bleed.
 
Imari
I might be just me, but the 97T manages to sound good and awful at the same time. The sound is good, it sounds like an angry F1 car. But what comes out of my headphones sounds like a really good recording of an F1 car played through a set of terrible, crackly car speakers.

It's better to listen to than vacuum cleaners, at least it conveys some of the passion of the car. It's a damn good start, and if all the cars in the game had that level of quality I think it'd be a big step up. But it's seriously unpleasant on the ears for any extended period.

Maybe it's intentional, I don't imagine standing next to the real car with no ear protection would be much fun. Standing near modern pre-2014 F1 cars is more about raw volume than the actual sound they make. But that's where the sound engineer has to work their magic, convey the character of the car without making the listener's ears bleed.
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I think conveying that magic sound of a car like that is nigh-on impossible for a game. In real life, when you're standing next to these cars, they do make your ears bleed. F5000 and F Atlantic cars make an ungodly racket. But it's that vibration, the mechanical rumbling that makes the racket turn into something beautiful. Until TV's are able to vibrate, pop, bang and blow our heads off, I don't think that little bit of magic can ever be conveyed.
 
hsv
But it's that vibration, the mechanical rumbling that makes the racket turn into something beautiful. Until TV's are able to vibrate, pop, bang and blow our heads off, I don't think that little bit of magic can ever be conveyed.
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It's true about the vibrations, and I think the echo of the sounds bouncing around the environment.

I do think you can get close to the being there feeling. I have a hefty surround system. Watching a replay in a decent PC sim, volume up and selecting one of the "environment replication" effects on my sound card brings things pretty damn close.
 
Imari
I might be just me, but the 97T manages to sound good and awful at the same time. The sound is good, it sounds like an angry F1 car. But what comes out of my headphones sounds like a really good recording of an F1 car played through a set of terrible, crackly car speakers.

It's better to listen to than vacuum cleaners, at least it conveys some of the passion of the car. It's a damn good start, and if all the cars in the game had that level of quality I think it'd be a big step up. But it's seriously unpleasant on the ears for any extended period.

Maybe it's intentional, I don't imagine standing next to the real car with no ear protection would be much fun. Standing near modern pre-2014 F1 cars is more about raw volume than the actual sound they make. But that's where the sound engineer has to work their magic, convey the character of the car without making the listener's ears bleed.
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Superficially, only going by the video (mine's still installing), I think it's because the sound is the exact same setup as the Red Bull cars. That means far too much raspy distortion from the pipe sim. The underlying configuration is definitely different, as it's a genuine twin exhaust sound now (which means double the rasp, potentially). The exahust pipe is the same one, though,you can tell by the way it rings.

I guess I underestimated how much more flexibility there was in that single sound, and how loud The Voices of the People™ were. You know, that's not a bad thing at all.

The Ralt-Toyota does just sound like the Junior, but we need to play around below about 6000 rpm to be sure. Same for the Lotus, once I get my hands on it. :)


The sounds of the Red Bulls, and now these cars, is deliberately exaggerated in my opinion, in order to compensate for missing sources. I think adding those sources (and a way to control switching between them to reduce load, without causing drop-outs) is the breakthrough PD are after.

Load a lap of each car up in the data logger, for giggles, too.
 
97T sounds awesome even through my crappy TV speakers. It sounds how an 80's Turbo F1 car should, doesn't use the generic turbo sound of most cars in GT6 and screams to the redline.

The sound of it banging the limiter on downshifts is pure joy, not to mention it is an absolute animal to drive. If only modern F1 cars were this exciting...
 
hsv
I think conveying that magic sound of a car like that is nigh-on impossible for a game. In real life, when you're standing next to these cars, they do make your ears bleed. F5000 and F Atlantic cars make an ungodly racket. But it's that vibration, the mechanical rumbling that makes the racket turn into something beautiful. Until TV's are able to vibrate, pop, bang and blow our heads off, I don't think that little bit of magic can ever be conveyed.
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Yes and no. Part of the magic is the volume, and that part is never going to be possible with a sound system that would fit in somone's house. A home theatre simply cannot put out that level of energy without being enormous.

The actual sound of the car however, that sure can be conveyed. If you hear a great recording of any amazing engine, it carries some of that magic. Not the same as standing next to the car, but some.

It's the difference between hearing a great song live, and hearing a great song that has been really well captured on CD. The live event will always have that little something extra, again partly because of the sheer volume, but with the CD you can experience a taste of what it was like to be there. A good song still makes you tap your feet/shake your bum/sing along/have a cry/whatever on CD, just at a lower level.


I know my visceral reaction to good car noises. I live in Melbourne, so I have the pleasure of going to the F1 each year. I've been to a few track days with people flogging their stupidly expensive supercars around. It's a great feeling that makes me turn around from whatever I'm doing, and gets me just in the pit of the stomach. Best thing I've had was standing on one of the pedestrian overbridges over Albert Park as half a dozen Carrera Cup cars went underneath at full throttle. That was mental.

Some games can give me just a little taste of that. The F3 does it (whether that's accurate as to what it should sound like or not). It sounds great. The first lap in it I had a little chuckle to myself and said "Oho, what an excellent noise!"

The 97T doesn't do it for me. It's not bad, but it doesn't trigger the emotional response that a real race car at full throttle does.
 
IneedSchool
You're not a troll. You're just like Samus.
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I'm still not sure how complaining about the tracks is a bad thing, he wasn't unhappy with the car sounds he said there weren't amazing, I'll wait for Griffith's analysis but when comparing youtube videos they didn't nail it just yet, a decent enough effort though.
 
Imari
Yes and no. Part of the magic is the volume, and that part is never going to be possible with a sound system that would fit in somone's house. A home theatre simply cannot put out that level of energy without being enormous.

The actual sound of the car however, that sure can be conveyed. If you hear a great recording of any amazing engine, it carries some of that magic. Not the same as standing next to the car, but some.

It's the difference between hearing a great song live, and hearing a great song that has been really well captured on CD. The live event will always have that little something extra, again partly because of the sheer volume, but with the CD you can experience a taste of what it was like to be there. A good song still makes you tap your feet/shake your bum/sing along/have a cry/whatever on CD, just at a lower level.


I know my visceral reaction to good car noises. I live in Melbourne, so I have the pleasure of going to the F1 each year. I've been to a few track days with people flogging their stupidly expensive supercars around. It's a great feeling that makes me turn around from whatever I'm doing, and gets me just in the pit of the stomach. Best thing I've had was standing on one of the pedestrian overbridges over Albert Park as half a dozen Carrera Cup cars went underneath at full throttle. That was mental.

Some games can give me just a little taste of that. The F3 does it (whether that's accurate as to what it should sound like or not). It sounds great. The first lap in it I had a little chuckle to myself and said "Oho, what an excellent noise!"

The 97T doesn't do it for me. It's not bad, but it doesn't trigger the emotional response that a real race car at full throttle does.
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A while back I was riding my bike in the woods, and a particularly loud motorbike could be heard in the distance. It turned out it was being ridden on the deserted, narrow twisties not far from where we were, and the rider was really ragging the nuts off the thing. Sure enough, it emerged at the bottom of the hill, in full attack mode. The sound of it washing over the fields and percolating through the trees, and enveloping us as we stood on the hillside, was enough that we got tickets for some amateur race at the local track the next weekend!

Recordings can capture that magic to a degree, but I don't know how important it is to have experienced that "envelopment" first. I.e., the is recording just evoking memories of that experience? Whatever, how you cheat to achieve that magic in a reproduction is partly by aping the (effects of) volume, but I'm more convinced these days that aping that envelopment, the spatial element, is going to be the real game changer in the future.

Once real efforts have been put into that, then we can say whether home theatre reproductions are "adequate". As it stands, the reproduction in software is the weak link, as evidenced by the magic of good recordings. Add a layer of interactivity to that, and there's no telling what it'll be like.
 
Griffith500
A while back I was riding my bike in the woods, and a particularly loud motorbike could be heard in the distance. It turned out it was being ridden on the deserted, narrow twisties not far from where we were, and the rider was really ragging the nuts off the thing. Sure enough, it emerged at the bottom of the hill, in full attack mode. The sound of it washing over the fields and percolating through the trees, and enveloping us as we stood on the hillside, was enough that we got tickets for some amateur race at the local track the next weekend!

Recordings can capture that magic to a degree, but I don't know how important it is to have experienced that "envelopment" first. I.e., the is recording just evoking memories of that experience? Whatever, how you cheat to achieve that magic in a reproduction is partly by aping the (effects of) volume, but I'm more convinced these days that aping that envelopment, the spatial element, is going to be the real game changer in the future.

Once real efforts have been put into that, then we can say whether home theatre reproductions are "adequate". As it stands, the reproduction in software is the weak link, as evidenced by the magic of good recordings. Add a layer of interactivity to that, and there's no telling what it'll be like.
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Why do old recordings (analogue) sound better to me than what we have today.
 
Nooboogering
Why do old recordings (analogue) sound better to me than what we have today.
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That depends entirely on what you're listening to.

In short, aside from any nostalgia of the crackle of a needle or the warmth of a decaying magnetic tape, the mastering is generally very different. Read up on the loudness wars, for instance. To add to that, when CDs were first introduced, there was marketing pressure to separate them from vinyl, and the big selling point of digital was meant to be its clean-ness, which is borne out in fact by its superior signal-to-noise ratio as compared with an equivalent analogue signal. In reality, it meant you could get away with pushing more signal through above even more noise, so the overall signal quality is generally degraded, especially for broadcast, to varying effect on the actual decoded result (think cable TV).

Anyway, the marketing pressure meant that CDs were mixed to sound clean, emphasising the "precise-sounding" upper mids, which really comes across as a bit tinny to the audiophile. You can get CDs from the era (early '80s, I suppose) that were mastered much closer to the analogue precursors (often drawn from the very same recordings, or even the very same mix), although that practice was generally confined to Japan, or smaller regional labels, from what I've read.

The biggest difference surely is the dynamic range, i.e. the aforementioned loudness wars. Vinyl today is still generally mastered with more headroom than the CD equivalent; that mastering could just as easily be applied to the CD, and arguably to greater effect - even "vinyl transfers" sound "better" sometimes, purely because they're mastered better. It's really quite baffling what happens when idiots with money on their brains make emotional decisions.
 
Foxhound93
Yes I know, my point is that in GT6 the Z4 GT3 does sound horrible but in Project Cars it sounds like a real race car. I probably wrote the whole post a little bit wrong and confusing way. English is not my primary language you know.. :embarrassed: (By the way there actually is another type of Z4 GT3. It is older model with less downforce etc. In that vid it is new version which is in GT6 and PCars)


Yes again, I know. I'm not that stupid :lol: It was a reply to the link few posts above my post so you could compare real life and PCars sounds. Maybe my post wasn't that well written, sorry about that.
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No problem, that is clear now. :)👍
 
The Formula 3 and the 97T are definitely something else to drive, away from the typical bland GT sound.
While the exhaust sound is too raspy for my taste, I really like the stuff that's going on between shifting,
and upshifts with a bit of throttle applied are fun to listen to. There is even some off throttle exhaust rumble, or how yo wanna call it. However, the quality isn't there yet, as I said the exhaust sounds raspy/distorted, maybe compressed.
On a side note I haven't (yet)driven these Red Bull cars that many people are referring to,
so my opinion is based on the Senna cars.

Edit: These sound effects are giving me hope that PD might get it right some day.
Maybe on the PS4 with uncompressed audio, who knows.
 
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