GR1 Daily... wow... Thoughts?

  • Thread starter rdks
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Well , with a controller (which is what 70% of the player base uses) brake control is a bit...impossible. At least for me , that i use x/square for throttle and brake. So , keeping abs imo prevents an even bigger chaos that is 15 drivers who don' t know how to brake without abs in 600+ hp machines.

I would take out TCS at least.
Respectfully, I am pro keeping remappable controls such as X/Square for analog inputs to support those with disabilities, but in a practical sense there is very [little] joy to be had using PS1-era inputs for acceleration and braking.

Also, these GR-1 Le Mans cars have TCS in reality, which is something I don't understand about the "no driver aids" movement on GTPlanet. If the dang car has ABS and TCS in real life, why force people to race with it off in a game that attempts to simulate a motorsports competition?
 
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Abs weak works REALLY well with the GR1 cars. You just need to remember that, like in your real car, half application is a lot.
 
The fact we can't change settings for Gr. 1 is just laughable.. As I said before and I'm gonna keep saying it, the BoP is only good when you can tune a car for a track. With custom setups the BoP is fairly decent.

I wanted to use the TS050 in Interlagos and got beat out by 2 LM55s simply because they were able to push full throttle out of turns... Hybrid system is only good for corner exits as I always get walked down by the Mazda on straights so I don't want to hear the excuse for that..

The leaderboards should NEVER be fully filled with one car... That is simply pitiful and is an indicator that maybe JUST MAYBE some cars have better advantages over others in a stock tune.. Like what's the point of pushing Sport mode if we can't tweak settings to fit each track?
Yeah, I wish Sport mode would allow custom settings. They have at least once but custom settings needs to be a mainstay. With stock settings some cars have simply too much of an advantage. I've found the LM55 to be the dominant one in Group 1. I'd be more willing to use the GT-R LM if I could use my own settings. With the stock settings that car understeers and spins the front tires too much to be useful. Meanwhile, I've tuned the car to not handle so bad.
 
I was enjoying it until I realized I could do no better than 1 minute 21s, how the hell people were lapping in the 1:18s for quali is beyond me, I dont drive the GR1 cars much so probably need more practice but even still...
 
Did a 1:19.2 so was starting in top three for most races however I don’t think I had many with positive SR! This race alone took my SR from 99 to 67!! Sacked it off and went back to race C GR4 seaside to get my SR back... if there is gr1 at Monza today Which I expect, then I will avoid like the plague
 
Yeah, I wish Sport mode would allow custom settings. They have at least once but custom settings needs to be a mainstay. With stock settings some cars have simply too much of an advantage. I've found the LM55 to be the dominant one in Group 1. I'd be more willing to use the GT-R LM if I could use my own settings. With the stock settings that car understeers and spins the front tires too much to be useful. Meanwhile, I've tuned the car to not handle so bad.

I hear your point but I think PDs logic is that if tuning is available,,, the average user will be left behind as they wouldn’t know what they are doing with all the configuration thus making the daily races and the game less attractive to the average consumer... that’s my guess anyway

EDIT: Sorry admin.. I’ve double quoted
 
Yeah, I wish Sport mode would allow custom settings. They have at least once but custom settings needs to be a mainstay. With stock settings some cars have simply too much of an advantage. I've found the LM55 to be the dominant one in Group 1. I'd be more willing to use the GT-R LM if I could use my own settings. With the stock settings that car understeers and spins the front tires too much to be useful. Meanwhile, I've tuned the car to not handle so bad.

I guess PD simply hasn't done much BoP tuning to the Group 1 cars because there haven't been any online events for them yet. If they're unbalanced without tuning, they will probably be unbalanced with tuning as well.

Personally, I'm really happy that tuning is disabled in most (if not all) Sport events, because it allows me to just focus on driving the car as well as possible around the track. Tuning requires a lot of time, which I don't have, to experiment in practice sessions. When I race against other players and see them outpace me, I want to know that it's because they're better drivers, not because they have some borderline-exploitative custom tune.
 
I guess PD simply hasn't done much BoP tuning to the Group 1 cars because there haven't been any online events for them yet. If they're unbalanced without tuning, they will probably be unbalanced with tuning as well.

Personally, I'm really happy that tuning is disabled in most (if not all) Sport events, because it allows me to just focus on driving the car as well as possible around the track. Tuning requires a lot of time, which I don't have, to experiment in practice sessions. When I race against other players and see them outpace me, I want to know that it's because they're better drivers, not because they have some borderline-exploitative custom tune.
I imagine if Group 1 sees more usage in dailies they'll fine tune the BoP, custom settings or not.
 
I guess PD simply hasn't done much BoP tuning to the Group 1 cars because there haven't been any online events for them yet. If they're unbalanced without tuning, they will probably be unbalanced with tuning as well.

Personally, I'm really happy that tuning is disabled in most (if not all) Sport events, because it allows me to just focus on driving the car as well as possible around the track. Tuning requires a lot of time, which I don't have, to experiment in practice sessions. When I race against other players and see them outpace me, I want to know that it's because they're better drivers, not because they have some borderline-exploitative custom tune.
I wholeheartedly agree with this - I do not have time to both practice lapping and tinkering with settings, while also entering races. It will remove the level playing field completely - did the guy in front beat me because he is faster or because he had 2 hours to tune before the race? I understand that people would like to tune in order to use a certain car, but it would create too many variables for a competitive and fair game. The only setting that could work would be transmission, as it is a very quick process to adjust it per track
 
I wholeheartedly agree with this - I do not have time to both practice lapping and tinkering with settings, while also entering races. It will remove the level playing field completely - did the guy in front beat me because he is faster or because he had 2 hours to tune before the race? I understand that people would like to tune in order to use a certain car, but it would create too many variables for a competitive and fair game. The only setting that could work would be transmission, as it is a very quick process to adjust it per track

The playing field won't really change if custom settings are present... The only thing that would change is grid diversity and different cars being on the leaderboards. Tuning and changing settings isn't going to magically make a person 3 seconds faster. Tuning is a way to get the car to handle in a specific and comfortable way for best suited for the track it is racing on.. In other words, tuning improves driving confidence and consistency to a lot of folks.

There's nothing fair about a Mustang dominating me in a race due to it's stock tune being suited better for the track it's on and me not being able to do anything about it but to "Use the car myself."

I don't know what variables you are talking about. . . Guys are literally blowing people out of the water with stock tunes as is, it won't make a difference if custom setups come into play as most people don't bother tuning anyway. However, PD claims they want to appeal to everyone, and I know a few really fast drivers that don't get on Sport mode a lot due to the fact you can't change settings..
 
@mirial With regards to ABS I think it's way too unrealistic when switched off and locks the wheels up too easily, so forcing it off wouldn't improve the game it would just make it incredibly frustrating for everyone. As for the other driving aids I don't particularly care if they switch them off or not, most of them if not all of them reduce the ultimate pace of the car when switched on and aren't essential for going quickly.

As for the topic, it seems now that they are somewhat happy with the BoP of Gr.3 and 4 they are expanding to other categories, although it would of been nice for them to fix the Gr.1 BoP a bit before putting it in the daily races. I can understand it not being that good without having run it for quite a few different track combinations but there are some glaring differences between some of the cars that can be easily improved upon. Good to see that they are mixing it up a bit though. 👍

Since most wheel users use the Logitechs, I was being a bit hypothetical about banning ABS because certainly at the moment, it at best would be difficult even for the best to master, mostly because brake strength isn't available so they can't adjust relative to a "max.travel lock-up point".

I certainly think even with the physics the way they are, that no ABS is doable for those that use the Thrustmasters with resistance braking, and would be made even easier if brake strength were adjustable, and if the initial set-point for max. travel could be fixed. I've used resistance braking for years and throughout GT5 it worked very well with no ABS because the progressive resistance offered gradually made the car less sensitive to locking up relative to inevitable slight variations in foot pressure at the critical moment.

Reliable resistance braking should be standard on all wheels IMO.

Back to the original thread, just sorry to see the LMP1 cars weren't the cars to have, but hope they fix that soon.
 
I tried my hand at qualifying in the Hyundai. Never raced as I was uncompetitive with a low 1'22. I'll wait for a track I'm good on.
 
The playing field won't really change if custom settings are present... The only thing that would change is grid diversity and different cars being on the leaderboards. Tuning and changing settings isn't going to magically make a person 3 seconds faster. Tuning is a way to get the car to handle in a specific and comfortable way for best suited for the track it is racing on.. In other words, tuning improves driving confidence and consistency to a lot of folks.

There's nothing fair about a Mustang dominating me in a race due to it's stock tune being suited better for the track it's on and me not being able to do anything about it but to "Use the car myself."

I don't know what variables you are talking about. . . Guys are literally blowing people out of the water with stock tunes as is, it won't make a difference if custom setups come into play as most people don't bother tuning anyway. However, PD claims they want to appeal to everyone, and I know a few really fast drivers that don't get on Sport mode a lot due to the fact you can't change settings..
I respectfully disagree - I get what you are saying and agree that shaving 3 seconds isn't exactly easy but I think most people with the right settings could take a second off of their times quite easily. For those who don't have the time to tune they are then at a disadvantage. A big reason behind one car grids is due to a few of the top guys zeroing in on a suitable candidate quickly, with everybody else seeing the leaderboard times and going with the same car knowing it can be competitive. If you noticed the leaderboard yesterday for race c, there were mostly M4's as per usual, however one or two used other cars. I went with the Aston and was easily keeping up, but most played it safe and went M4. Every track will have at least a few cars capable of winning
 
I respectfully disagree - I get what you are saying and agree that shaving 3 seconds isn't exactly easy but I think most people with the right settings could take a second off of their times quite easily. For those who don't have the time to tune they are then at a disadvantage. A big reason behind one car grids is due to a few of the top guys zeroing in on a suitable candidate quickly, with everybody else seeing the leaderboard times and going with the same car knowing it can be competitive. If you noticed the leaderboard yesterday for race c, there were mostly M4's as per usual, however one or two used other cars. I went with the Aston and was easily keeping up, but most played it safe and went M4. Every track will have at least a few cars capable of winning

As I said before, not a lot of people tune in the game in general and most of the people that do and would use custom setups are already in the top half of racers anyway so it would be hardly noticeable.. A big difference you'd see is more consistency and less mistakes. Especially in the higher level rooms.

And yes I am aware of the whole monkey see monkey do of the race community and cheesing the best car for a track. My gripe is, I want to use ALL my cars.. There's no point of me having 9-10 Gr. 3 cars and only able to race 3 of em competitively.. There's always give and pull to any situation but not tweaking settings won't put anyone at a disadvantage if you're comfortable on stock tunes/setups. Notice that the whole ideal is about driving comfort and track suitability.

PD wants to simulate real life motorsports, but I've never heard of a race series who restricts all cars to the same setup for every course.

Yeah I like to compete, but I also enjoy driving different cars, learning and using the differing characteristics of each to obtain the best lap time I personally can.

So we're just have to agree to disagree.
 
. When I race against other players and see them outpace me, I want to know that it's because they're better drivers, not because they have some borderline-exploitative custom tune.

The only way you can get a level that is strictly driver level or skill being the only deciding factor is EVERY variable need to be eliminated.

That means one make only races with setting locked including transmission type of manual/automatic.
All driver aids to be locked with default settings and the Exact same aids at the same level for all drivers.
And controller/ wheel input types would need to be locked to the same input device as well.

Then you would be able to tell which driver was better in that car on that track only, Change cars or tracks the results may be different as well.

Any other type of race with or without custom driver applied tunes or not will not determine driver difference alone and saying it would is a joke.

Tuning and setting a car up is part of racing, there is no series running in the real world which locks all suspension adjustments. It should be the same within the game.
 
The only way you can get a level that is strictly driver level or skill being the only deciding factor is EVERY variable need to be eliminated.

That means one make only races with setting locked including transmission type of manual/automatic.
All driver aids to be locked with default settings and the Exact same aids at the same level for all drivers.
And controller/ wheel input types would need to be locked to the same input device as well.

Then you would be able to tell which driver was better in that car on that track only, Change cars or tracks the results may be different as well.

Any other type of race with or without custom driver applied tunes or not will not determine driver difference alone and saying it would is a joke.

Tuning and setting a car up is part of racing, there is no series running in the real world which locks all suspension adjustments. It should be the same within the game.

I really don't understand why you keep pointing out that there are other factors in sport mode that effect race outcomes that aren't driver skill related. It's completely irrelevant and at the end of the day, those other factors have a relatively small impact on the outcome of the race, especially as the BoP gets better. Tuning on the other hand can easily make you a second a lap faster if you know what you're doing so to say "well it doesn't matter because you're never going to make it 100% skill based anyway" is an incredibly stupid argument.

In fact it could be argued that choice of cars and driving aids make it more skill based than a one make now that I think about it. With different options available everyone can pick the option that makes them go the fastest and that suits their driving style, whereas with a one make there is a certain amount of luck involved as to whether the car picked is one you're good in. Ultimately it's still down to driving skill in a one make but it's not necessarily as clear cut as you make it out to be.

Now you might ask, why doesn't this apply with tuning? After all it's just extra options to get a car that suits your driving style. Well there's a couple of differences, firstly the number of options available and the knowledge required to use those options effectively (not driver skill related knowledge at that). With a choice of cars you have 10-15 options to pick from which can be narrowed down quite easily just by looking at the leaderboards, you can quite easily get to grip with the pros and cons of each car and know that you're going into a race as fast as you can possibly be. Tuning on the other hand has virtually limitless combination of options and takes a long time to understand and perfect

The other difference as I've already mentioned is the effect on ultimate pace. With a good BoP the cars will only vary by a couple of tenths in ultimate pace with a few exceptions track dependent as seen with the most competitive cars, so it's not so much a case of "pick this car to go quickly" and more picking the car you prefer and feel compliments your driving style. Tuning's biggest effect however is on ultimate pace, and not on matching your driving style, in most cases as I said before this increase in ultimate pace can easily be a second per lap, and in some extreme cases (such as ovals like Blue Moon) the difference can be up to 4 seconds per lap. So not only is it a case of you have to have a certain tune to set the best times, there is no clear option to pick the best unlike with a choice in car. With car choice it is clearly visible to everyone what car is the fastest but the same doesn't apply to tuning.

Final point is your comparison to real life racing. Yes in real life racing setup is a key part to every race series but there are same major differences between real life and a game (shocking I know). The main difference is there is a hell of a lot of money spent in real racing on paying professionals who know what they are doing and have a good understanding of the cars to set them up for the drivers. The majority of drivers basically do no setup work themselves and probably wouldn't know where to start. In fact in a lot of series the cost of having the best person to setup the car is more expensive than the car itself! So for that reason alone comparing real life series and their rules on car setup to a game, where frankly most people want the options for picking the fastest car to be fairly simple, just doesn't work. That and regulating a stock setup is far easier in a game than it is in real life which also probably factors into why event organizers in real life decide to allow tuning, as well as teams and car manufacturers playing a much bigger role in real races than in game and it not being as driver orientated (although obviously the driver is still the most significant aspect in most series).
 
As I said before, not a lot of people tune in the game in general and most of the people that do and would use custom setups are already in the top half of racers anyway so it would be hardly noticeable.. A big difference you'd see is more consistency and less mistakes. Especially in the higher level rooms.

And yes I am aware of the whole monkey see monkey do of the race community and cheesing the best car for a track. My gripe is, I want to use ALL my cars.. There's no point of me having 9-10 Gr. 3 cars and only able to race 3 of em competitively.. There's always give and pull to any situation but not tweaking settings won't put anyone at a disadvantage if you're comfortable on stock tunes/setups. Notice that the whole ideal is about driving comfort and track suitability.

PD wants to simulate real life motorsports, but I've never heard of a race series who restricts all cars to the same setup for every course.

Yeah I like to compete, but I also enjoy driving different cars, learning and using the differing characteristics of each to obtain the best lap time I personally can.

So we're just have to agree to disagree.
I agree that tuning can and will tailor a cars behaviour to your own driving style, but in my view that isn't the ultimate aim for the majority - most will tune to go faster and will be successful in doing so. I'm hopefully on the cusp of breaking into the top 10 with (a lot) more hard work and practice over the coming weeks (Brands especially!), but if tuning was allowed I'd suddenly be nowhere near and there would be nothing to work for without working on tunes. I don't have time to do that as well as practicing and racing, so for me it would kill the game. I think the debate boils down to personal aims and what people consider as important. For me, the priority is a level playing field so I can learn from those faster than me and compete
 
I agree that tuning can and will tailor a cars behaviour to your own driving style, but in my view that isn't the ultimate aim for the majority - most will tune to go faster and will be successful in doing so. I'm hopefully on the cusp of breaking into the top 10 with (a lot) more hard work and practice over the coming weeks (Brands especially!), but if tuning was allowed I'd suddenly be nowhere near and there would be nothing to work for without working on tunes. I don't have time to do that as well as practicing and racing, so for me it would kill the game. I think the debate boils down to personal aims and what people consider as important. For me, the priority is a level playing field so I can learn from those faster than me and compete
more like it boils down to "I cannot do it, so no one should"
 
more like it boils down to "I cannot do it, so no one should"

Essentially yes, people shouldn't be allowed to compensate for lack of driving ability by plugging in the right numbers. Might as well put hidden cheat codes in the game because it's essentially the same principle, obviously one is grounded in reality which an important distinction but still.
 
Essentially yes, people shouldn't be allowed to compensate for lack of driving ability by plugging in the right numbers. Might as well put hidden cheat codes in the game because it's essentially the same principle, obviously one is grounded in reality which an important distinction but still.
So, tuning should be not allowed in RL races because people cheat.. hmm.. considering GT is meant to mimic RL and has been praised for doing just that.

It still comes down to the "poor me" attitude and no one should be better then someone one else because someone doesn't have the desire to work at being better.
 
more like it boils down to "I cannot do it, so no one should"
Did you even read what I wrote? I could start tinkering, testing, adjusting and shaving time but I'm not playing the game to be a race engineer, I'm playing it to see how fast I can go and to improve my skill level. If tuning is enjoyable for you then more for you, however you cannot argue that it wouldn't divide the community because it would. I have a justification for my opinion, while you have resorted to being a bit juvenile!
 
Did you even read what I wrote? I could start tinkering, testing, adjusting and shaving time but I'm not playing the game to be a race engineer, I'm playing it to see how fast I can go and to improve my skill level. If tuning is enjoyable for you then more for you, however you cannot argue that it wouldn't divide the community because it would. I have a justification for my opinion, while you have resorted to being a bit juvenile!

yes I read it, and again I repeat. your attitude is that of "I cannot do it, so no one should be able". Justification for communism where everyone is "treated" the same is no justification to limit others simply because you have no desire to learn.
 
So, tuning should be not allowed in RL races because people cheat.. hmm.. considering GT is meant to mimic RL and has been praised for doing just that.

I never said people were cheating, I was using cheat codes as a comparison as both are essentially pressing buttons in a certain way to gain an advantage. Obviously the major difference is that setups aren't random and have some logic to them.

It still comes down to the "poor me" attitude and no one should be better then someone one else because someone doesn't have the desire to work at being better.

What? :lol: "someone doesn't have the desire to work at being better." is exactly the reason a lot of people want tuning, they don't want to work on improving their driving so they want to change setups to compensate. Allowing tuning is a cop out for practicing and doesn't even necessarily require any effort on the person with the setup. All you need to do to gain an advantage with a setup is to know where to find one, same can't be said for driver skill, you can't go on a forum and get more driving ability but you can go on a forum and get a setup. However if you don't know where to find setups and don't know how tuning works then tough luck, you're going to be seconds per lap slower potentially through no fault of you driving ability, and that is a terrible mechanic to have in a racing game.
 
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I never said people were cheating, I was using cheat codes as a comparison as both are essentially pressing buttons in a certain way to gain an advantage. Obviously the major difference is that setups aren't random and have some logic to them.



What? :lol: "someone doesn't have the desire to work at being better." is exactly the reason a lot of people want tuning, they don't want to work on improving their driving so they want to change setups to compensate. Allowing tuning is a cop out for practicing and doesn't even necessarily require any effort on the person with the setup. All you need to do to gain an advantage with a setup is to know where to find one, same can't be said for driver skill, you can't go on a forum and get more driving ability but you can go on a forum and get a setup. However if you don't know where to find setups and don't know how tuning works then tough luck, you're going to be seconds per lap slower potentially through no fault of you driving ability, and that is a terrible mechanic to have in a driving game.
At least somebody gets what I'm saying! I respect everybody's viewpoint and appreciate it won't always match mine, but the last part of Spurgys post sums it up perfectly.
 
What? :lol: "someone doesn't have the desire to work at being better." is exactly the reason a lot of people want tuning, they don't want to work on improving their driving so they want to change setups to compensate. Allowing tuning is a cop out for practicing and doesn't even necessarily require any effort on the person with the setup. All you need to do to gain an advantage with a setup is to know where to find one, same can't be said for driver skill, you can't go on a forum and get more driving ability but you can go on a forum and get a setup. However if you don't know where to find setups and don't know how tuning works then tough luck, you're going to be seconds per lap slower potentially through no fault of you driving ability, and that is a terrible mechanic to have in a racing game.

I don't agree with this at all. For various reasons.
1. Just because someone is fast on a setup, doesn't mean it's going to make someone else faster. The car is going to behave differently that may not be to the tastes of the said setup borrower.
2. There are people who don't have good Driver ability that win a lot simply because they use the most favorable car suited for the current track. There are races in the dailies where you can beat out the field or stay in the top 8 as long as you stay on the track.
3. I really don't understand the whole concept behind "tunes make the car faster or create an unfair advantage" It sounds no different than the "Wheel users are faster by default" or "wheel users have way more advantages than a DS4 user" A wheel itself doesn't make a driver faster, just like tunes won't AUTOMATICALLY make everyone a different/faster driver.

To continue..

There are people who get on the top leaderboards who are all for tuning. So because I want tuning, I'm using a cop out plea to not practice?? I practice a lot actually. Sometimes I'll strictly go to qualifying and lap for two races.. Just like everyone isn't good with custom setups or won't have the time to make setups, everyone isn't good with stock setups and it doesn't fit their driving style. But I guess I should suck it up and get good at driving stock tunes because that's what I feel like you just implied.
 
I really don't understand why you keep pointing out that there are other factors in sport mode that effect race outcomes that aren't driver skill related. It's completely irrelevant and at the end of the day,

How can you even attempt to insinuate they are irrelevant?

You do realize that adjusting TCS from off to the highest level that is unlocked and can be changed in race is effectively nothing more than "TUNING" and changing or controlling the power delivery to rear wheels to change the characteristics to make maintaining control of the car easier?

You do realize that Brake Bias and being adjustable from a -5 to +5 is"tuning" the braking characteristics to change the way a car brakes initially or trying to trailbrake and does affect the car shifting of weight balance from the front or rear wheels right?

So apparently those phases of tuning you are okay with, how many times have you seen threads asking about how brake bias works or what it does?
Guess the casual gamer does not understand that either.

where frankly most people want the options for picking the fastest car to be fairly simple,
Some people in order to be competitive do not want to have to be forced to choose 3 or 4 different cars on a circuit out of a total of 12 -15 cars that are actually made available to race within the class by the game because PD sets a base tune on some cars that are much better than others.



Allowing tuning is a cop out for practicing and doesn't even necessarily require any effort on the person with the setup.

No, allowing tuning is a cop out out for someone with your attitude that apparently does not want to invest the time to understand how tuning a car is a critical and realistically normal part of racing just because you do not like it.

I am not afraid of the challenge but apparently you must be.
 
I don't agree with this at all. For various reasons.
1. Just because someone is fast on a setup, doesn't mean it's going to make someone else faster. The car is going to behave differently that may not be to the tastes of the said setup borrower.
2. There are people who don't have good Driver ability that win a lot simply because they use the most favorable car suited for the current track.
3. I really don't understand the whole concept behind "tunes make the car faster or create an unfair advantage" It sounds no different than the "Wheel users are faster by default" A wheel itself doesn't make a driver faster, just like tunes won't AUTOMATICALLY make everyone a different driver.

To continue..

There are people who get on the top leaderboards who are all for tuning. So because I want tuning, I'm using a cop out plea to not practice?? I practice a lot actually. Sometimes I'll strictly go to qualifying and lap for two races.. Just like everyone isn't good with custom setups or won't have the time to make setups, everyone isn't good with stock setups and it doesn't fit their driving style. But I guess I should suck it up and get good at driving stock tunes because that's what I feel like you just implied.
This is all legitimate in principal, but in reality we all know that in most cases a good setup will considerably reduce lap times. By considerably, I'm talking a second or so, which makes a massive difference versus the next driver who didn't tune.
 
Here's my opinion on tuning and BOP. In previous GT games I stuck mostly to time trials online because lobbies were a crapshoot. Most of the time people had cars tuned to the track and it was hard to compete with a stock car. Although we have a great GTP community here that shares setups, it takes time finding something to suit your style. And I found these tunes completely destroyed the handling of the car as intended by the manufacturer. They felt more like race cars. I'd much rather prefer driving these cars with their unique characteristics.

Sport mode allows this. I now really enjoy racing against others instead of just the track knowing I have a better chance at being competitive. In IMSA certain cars have an advantage over other cars on certain tracks. BOP adjustments are made during the season to even things out. I feel PD should have an in house team of drivers (maybe some aliens) drive each car on each track and makes changes based on an average time. Seems that we are those test drivers.
 
This is all legitimate in principal, but in reality we all know that in most cases a good setup will considerably reduce lap times. By considerably, I'm talking a second or so, which makes a massive difference versus the next driver who didn't tune.

Most people I've raced against don't run anywhere faster than .4 seconds faster on a custom tune than they do with a stock tune.. As I keep saying, the better time and good setup advantage will barely be noticable as a lot of people don't understand the concepts behind tuning and won't bother with it.. So in truthfulness you might get a tenth of people in Sport mode who'll actually benefit from tuning. And in my opinion, saying a couple hundred of people who are faster with tunes is "unfair" and puts the other hundreds of thousands of others at a disadvantage is absurd. I can almost guarantee even with tunes, you'll be racing and keeping pace, beating or coming behind the same people as you would now..

I have a DS4 and I heard people complain about how wheel users should have separate rooms from DS4 users because we somehow can't compete with wheel users and have a disadvantage.. Whereas the way I see it only thing with a wheel is turn input consistency. Everything else is possible on a DS4 if one has the pad skills.

I myself would gain MAYBE .5 of a second on certain tracks with a tune. Which won't make a difference in terms of competitiveness. It helps my confidence and consistency.
 
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