Grade the "American Revolution."

[JohnBM01]

I talked with a lady for Chevrolet at the Houston Auto Show, and I think she told me that the SSR was based on a 1949 Suburban. I don't know if that's actually true or not, but when I think of a hotrod truck, I'm normally thinking of a Willys from the 1930s. Even if you don't like the SSR, at least it tries to stand out with its styling. It's basically a sportscar embodied into a truck. It has two seats, the latest one with 390 horsepower, and actually good as a top-down machine. It's a fun machine to me. Sure, southeast Texas isn't southern California, but if I actually owned one, I would feel pretty cool going down the road. Someone took a truck once and made it a pretty ugly convertible. This one, though, is more car-like than truck-like.

Call me crazy, but I think the Cobalt is in the fight with not only the Ford Focus, but the Dodge Neon SRT-4. The Cobalt is a spunky ride. The first words I'd use to describe this car would NOT be "boy racer." The sportiest of them is the Cobalt SS. And if you don't think these would stand a chance on American roads, these machines are currently racing in Grand-Am Cup. The Daytona race is done, and I only know who won the race (I'm not telling because Speed Channel loves to delay the coverage of stuff like this. So I won't tell who won overall.)

This year, I didn't get into the Aveo. But last time, the "roominess" wasn't there. I would have liked to see the 303hp new Impala at the show. I'm trying to stay neutral on this one. Just talking about what I've seen and heard.

 

[Drifting Thunda]

You think all American cars have big engines? Hmmm...the Cobalt SS has a 121 cubic inch engine (2.0L) and what's this it supercharged! My God an American car with a supercharger, what is this world coming to.

You know why car companies put big engines in cars? Numbers sell cars. You really think the average consumer knows what horsepower is? No they equate it to more is better. It's a marketing technique.

This guy sees the picture clearly. When people are looking for sporty cars they look at the power and motor and aesthetics. They don't care much that the new base model C6 Corvette has a leaf spring in it's rear suspension setup, they give much more a damn about the 6.0L 400hp LS2 V8*, which sounds much "sportier" so to speak than a 276 advertised hp 2.5L turbo inline 6 or whatever you put on the table. To think otherwise is silly.

*which happens to guzzle LESS gas than the Mazda RX-8's rotary, the Subaru WRX STi's turbo flat 4, etc etc...

Just thought I'd throw in some words of support for what this intelligable member has said. 👍

 

[PS]

I'm not even going to read that mess. At least sperate your thoughts or something so I can try to unscramble that jibberish.

Fixed.

From waht I got out of that is that you for some reason think American cars are ancient. Not evey automobile in America was built in 1972 and there has been change. You are just an idiot that has something out for American cars when you have not picked up one singal car magazine to read about them and if you have you must have picked up the March issue of Car & Driver from 1970.

I have 16 car magazines within view. I've read them all.

You think all American cars have big engines? Hmmm...the Cobalt SS has a 121 cubic inch engine (2.0L) and what's this it supercharged! My God an American car with a supercharger, what is this world coming to.

I didn't say "all American cars have big engines." I was using an example. Look at the viper for instance. 8.3L V10. That's GIGANTIC. The Bugatti EB110 (a car of very similar performance) has a 3.5L V12. The Viper equates to 0.83L/cylinder. The EB110's however is 0.29L/cylinder. Not to mention the fact that it's NA tune.

You know why car companies put big engines in cars? Numbers sell cars. You really think the average consumer knows what horsepower is? No they equate it to more is better. It's a marketing technique.

My point exactly. American car companies play on the ignorance of the average American.

You want to talk about complicated cars? The BMW I-Drive system is by far the hardest thing I've ever tried to use while I was driving. Just give me simple buttons.

Another one of my points. And it's i-Drive (like i-Pod or iTunes). The European car companies use excessive technology.

You want to talk about breakdowns? Any Jaguar falls apart, they have one of the worst records for service quality.

If you've read my previous posts, I know that. And in case you're unaware, Jaguar is owned by Ford. An American company. Oh my god!

But since we are comparing things from the 1970's here. The Japanese cars breakdown more then the American cars, they are small, they are unsafe, and if I see one on the road I'm going to run it over with my 1974 Monte Carlo.

I have no idea where you got the impression I was comparing cars from the 1970's. And may I remind you the 1969 Toyota Levin had a DOHC.

And I bet you are one who thinks a Honda Truck is a revolution. Ya a FWD, unibody truck screams practical.

I dislike it, quite a bit. And many trucks are FWD or 4WD. Same with SUV's.

Care to sort out your "mess"?

 

[Ghost C]

In order for it to be an american "revolution", I would suggest they start looking at their Japanese counterparts. Their cars are pretty basic, and easy to work on, but that's because instead of using complicated technology (a supercharger?! omg wth is that?!) to get power out of their engines, they rely on sheer size (see 8.3L V10 vs 3.5L V12) to power the engine, which thus makes things less complicated to work on, and also give mechanics the ability to replace or even forge parts for them relatively easily.

OMG, a supercharger? You mean like the one on the Ion Redline, the Cobalt SS, or the Cadillac STS-V? I don't think we've ever heard about those new fangled contraptions.

A Japanese car will last you damn near forever (sans the Infiniti G35's brakes), and is easy to work on, and they are far more fuel efficient.

Yeah, my 4.9 V8 that gets 20-25mpg in the city is so awful on gas.

Japanese cars are lighter, because of the body paneling usually, and they are thus usually more fuel efficient.

Let's just use a Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 and my car as a comparison. I have a four door luxury sedan with full leather interior, an 18 gallon fuel tank, and you can fit about five bodies in the trunk. It's exactly 198 pounds lighter than the 3000GT VR-4, a two door sports car.

All of the Japanese two door sports cars are in the same weight category as my Sedan DeVille, so I don't know exactly where you get your facts from. Just because a car looks heavy doesn't mean it is heavy.

With a Japanese company they first look at 1) Practicality. With an American car they first look at 1) what does the uneducated buyer want?. This is where the illusion of the American revolution comes into play. Here's an example, would you rather have a bicycle with 21 speeds, a gel seat and a horn, or would you rather have a one-speed bike, with pegs, little bead thingies on the spokes, and lots of reflectors? Well that bike with the 21 speeds and a gel seat is your Japanese car. Heck, I could have used another bike analogy where Jeep invented an "AWD Offroad Bike". Yes, it's a heavy, inarticulate, retarded bike that forces you to pedal 2 wheels. The American car revolution can be summed up as the poor kid at your school that has no idea whats going on. He's always a step behind in the style, he tries way too hard to fit in, and he has a fake personality. The Japanese...industry...however, is like the contemporary kid at your school. He has his own kind of basic, normal style, he's got a tight knit group of friends that he can always rely on, and he always hands his assignments in on time. The European market for instance, is the nerdy kid with glasses, who is always trying to perfect something or other, for the good of the class. He is usually elected Validictorian, and everybody knows who he is because he is his own, good intentioned, although somewhat inept, man. The difference between the 3? Well, one needs some serious catching up to do, the other needs to get out more, and the latter needs to quit being an ignorant sellout and get his job done.

Pure biased gibberish, plain and simple.

 

[Drifting Thunda]

blah blah blah

Then compare the prices and you'll note that the American cars are very consistantly more bang for the buck. While you and whatever fellow far eastern-worshippers may nit pick at what "flaws" American cars have, it all comes down to how much you get for what you pay. But if you still wanna talk flaws there's plenty to say about the Japanese cars too. PLENTY.

 

[PS]

Then compare the prices and you'll note that the American cars are very consistantly more bang for the buck. While you and whatever fellow far eastern-worshippers may nit pick at what "flaws" American cars have, it all comes down to how much you get for what you pay. But if you still wanna talk flaws there's plenty to say about the Japanese cars too. PLENTY.

They're consistently more bang for the buck because you'll be paying for it later on, if you haven't read what I posted. In no way was I incinuating that a Japanese or European car had more bang for the buck. That's what American cars are known for. There are three factors when it comes to building something, but only two can be used at once. Price, speed, and quality. You can make something quick, and cheap, but it won't be good. You can make something good, and quick, but it won't be cheap. You can build some good, and cheap, but it won't be quick. Japanese cars are built with stellar quality (reliability anyhow), and are cheap. But they take longer to get off the lot. European cars are built good, and quick. But they aren't cheap. American cars are built cheap, and quick. You can do the math.

American cars provide more bang for the buck, but they're like the Zellers of the car industry. I don't have time to go into it right now, so I'll come back to this tonight.

 

[Double_R]

American cars are know gas guzzlers that dont turn and frankly that list of comparing cars weights is a load of biased rubbish. A bmw 645i the closet thing the europeans have to vettes????? WHAYT IND OF RUBBISH IS THAT!!!!!! Why do you think american cars only sell in america. Because only the patriotic people will buy them. Pick up any european magazine and you will read that quite frankly the american cars are useless. Go on the topgear website and read away aswell. You should see wat the europeans think of your precious escalade. Also just because Ford owns jaguar and austin martin doesnt mean that they are the 1s turning the company around. Ofcourse they influence it but at the end of the day the car is still very european.

 

[Double_R]

Fixed.



I have 16 car magazines within view. I've read them all.



I didn't say "all American cars have big engines." I was using an example. Look at the viper for instance. 8.3L V10. That's GIGANTIC. The Bugatti EB110 (a car of very similar performance) has a 3.5L V12. The Viper equates to 0.83L/cylinder. The EB110's however is 0.29L/cylinder. Not to mention the fact that it's NA tune.



My point exactly. American car companies play on the ignorance of the average American.



Another one of my points. And it's i-Drive (like i-Pod or iTunes). The European car companies use excessive technology.

If you've read my previous posts, I know that. And in case you're unaware, Jaguar is owned by Ford. An American company. Oh my god!



I have no idea where you got the impression I was comparing cars from the 1970's. And may I remind you the 1969 Toyota Levin had a DOHC.



I dislike it, quite a bit. And many trucks are FWD or 4WD. Same with SUV's.

Care to sort out your "mess"?

1 which car is lighter though the bugatti or the viper and how much does it cost to service and run may I ask

2 The american car salesmen are not very good at their sales pitches if they are still using such old methods.Also it is much cheaper to produce large capacity engines than high performance litle 1s. Also just how could is a viper around a course. Not as good as a european exotic by any means.

3 Just because 1 top of the range BMW has a bit of technology does not mean that all european cars have it.

4 Ford wouldnt buy a company that wouldnt be profitable for them now would they.

5 people comparing bad japenese cars from the early 90s to the current american cars is not a fair comparision is it now. (Im talkin about the Mitsu GTO which was posted by some1 else)

American SUV's are useless like the x3. Stick wit the x5 and land rover and the cayenne and tourage

 

[Ghost C]

You can make something quick, and cheap, but it won't be good. You can make something good, and quick, but it won't be cheap. You can build some good, and cheap, but it won't be quick. Japanese cars are built with stellar quality (reliability anyhow), and are cheap. But they take longer to get off the lot. European cars are built good, and quick. But they aren't cheap. American cars are built cheap, and quick. You can do the math.

More biased garbage. Wonderful. Again I'll say - My Cadillac DeVille has 190,000 miles on it. The HT4100 block, which includes all of the 4.1, 4.5, and 4.9 motors from '86 to around '94 are known for lasting to, and above, 300,000 miles.

The '91 DeVille will also do 0-60 in 8 seconds flat, and will fit five adults comfortably, and they also cost next to nothing considering they were a Cadillac. Slow? Not even. Cheap? Fairly cheap. Reliable? You bet your ass.

American cars are know gas guzzlers that dont turn and frankly that list of comparing cars weights is a load of biased rubbish.

Uh-huh. 25mpg in the city from a V8. In the early 90's. Find me a European V8 that can beat that, while putting out 200hp and 275ft/lbs of torque. I won't even get into the fully independant suspension with fully adjustable camber and toe.

You notice that I can make anything you say into bull**** by just comparing my car to your statistic, imagine if I actually cared enough to look up the stats for any other American car.

Why do you think american cars only sell in america. Because only the patriotic people will buy them.

Right. That's why there's an American car being sold on nearly every continent.

people comparing bad japenese cars from the early 90s to the current american cars is not a fair comparision is it now. (Im talkin about the Mitsu GTO which was posted by some1 else)

I compared a 3000GT VR-4 to an even older American car based on weight alone.

 

[PS]

Fixed.



I have 16 car magazines within view. I've read them all.



I didn't say "all American cars have big engines." I was using an example. Look at the viper for instance. 8.3L V10. That's GIGANTIC. The Bugatti EB110 (a car of very similar performance) has a 3.5L V12. The Viper equates to 0.83L/cylinder. The EB110's however is 0.29L/cylinder. Not to mention the fact that it's NA tune.



My point exactly. American car companies play on the ignorance of the average American.



Another one of my points. And it's i-Drive (like i-Pod or iTunes). The European car companies use excessive technology.

1 which car is lighter though the bugatti or the viper and how much does it cost to service and run may I ask

Many people sell their vipers after only 10,000 miles or so. Bugatti owners keep them forever.

The Bugatti weighs 3,571lbs. The Viper weighs 3,408lbs. The Viper is lighter, more powerful, and yet the 0-60 time on the Bugatti is 0.4 seconds faster.

2 The american car salesmen are not very good at their sales pitches if they are still using such old methods.Also it is much cheaper to produce large capacity engines than high performance litle 1s. Also just how could is a viper around a course. Not as good as a european exotic by any means.

What's your point? Are you yea or nea "American Revolution"?

3 Just because 1 top of the range BMW has a bit of technology does not mean that all european cars have it.

Or, maybe 20 different BMW's... The point is Mercedes, (now Chrysler's sister) uses a lot of technology. Esepcially Saab. Are you aware of the safety precations many European cars have? Not to mention the fact that Ferarri developed an Electronic Stability Control system so effective, it has been banned by many racing corporations. I think it's available on the new F430.

4 Ford wouldnt buy a company that wouldnt be profitable for them now would they.

That's quite possibly the most ignorant thing I've ever seen. Haven't you read the "Who Owns Who?" list I provided? FORD OWNS JAGUAR, ASTON MARTIN, LAND ROVER, AND VOLVO. . . and 33.4% of Mazda.

5 people comparing bad japenese cars from the early 90s to the current american cars is not a fair comparision is it now. (Im talkin about the Mitsu GTO which was posted by some1 else)

Sure...why not?

American SUV's are useless like the x3. Stick wit the x5 and land rover and the cayenne and tourage

American SUV's are pretty much the most usefull SUV's out there. In case you've been living under a rock, the Mercedes G55 AMG, BMW X5, and Porsche Cayenne are all expensive, inpractical SUV's. The G55 is probably the most off-road worthy (almost certainly), and who would want to go offroading with their new X5 or Cayenne? I'm still not sure what debate you're trying to invoke here.

[edit]

Right. That's why there's an American car being sold on nearly every continent.

There's also a European and a Japanese car being sold on nearly every continent.

More biased garbage. Wonderful. Again I'll say - My Cadillac DeVille has 190,000 miles on it. The HT4100 block, which includes all of the 4.1, 4.5, and 4.9 motors from '86 to around '94 are known for lasting to, and above, 300,000 miles.

So? the Toyota Tercel, Echo, Supra, Camry, Altezza, Corolla etc. and all easily do that without any trips to the shop. There was a cab driver in Vancouver who drove a Prius (made by Toyota, a Japanese company!) 460,000km's in it's FIRST YEAR. He had no problems with it, he had never had to take it to the shop, and it just recieved the regular maintenance. 460,000km's is pretty darn close to 300,000 miles. That was in the first year. He's had it since 2002, the year they became available to Canada I think. So not only was it a new model, but it had unsurpassed reliability. In fact, Toyota was so impressed too, that they gave him another 2004 Prius for free. They voluntarily re-painted his old prius, which he now owns, and drives a brand new one. Now that's service. Same goes for Scion and Lexus.

[edit] Oh, and we regularily get between 35-40mpg. In our Toyota. And no it isn't the prius.

 

[Ghost C]

There's also a European and a Japanese car being sold on nearly every continent.

That was directed at Double_R and his talk about how American cars suck.

So? the Toyota Tercel, Echo, Supra, Camry, Altezza, Corolla etc. and all easily do that without any trips to the shop. There was a cab driver in Vancouver who drove a Prius (made by Toyota, a Japanese company!) 460,000km's in it's FIRST YEAR. He had no problems with it, he had never had to take it to the shop, and it just recieved the regular maintenance. 460,000km's is pretty darn close to 300,000 miles. That was in the first year. He's had it since 2002, the year they became available to Canada I think. So not only was it a new model, but it had unsurpassed reliability. In fact, Toyota was so impressed too, that they gave him another 2004 Prius for free. They voluntarily re-painted his old prius, which he now owns, and drives a brand new one. Now that's service. Same goes for Scion and Lexus.

My point was, everyone wants to talk about how unreliable big American V8's are when they aren't.

[edit] Oh, and we regularily get between 35-40mpg. In our Toyota. And no it isn't the prius.

Yes, with half the cylinders of my car, and VVT-I, I bet.

 

[PS]

So what? Toyota manages to do just the same, with less. My point is, it shouldn't be called an American revolution, because there is nothing revolutionary. They just haven't really improved for it to even be called...a succession...it's just...the same.

Anyway, I'm not sure Double_R knows exactly what he's talking about. At least we've had a half-assed debated over the past little while.

I'm not saying all Big American V8's are unreliable...I'm saying they're just overly simplistic, and the car itself is the one that pays.

 

[Joey D]

So your saying things that are needlessly complex are way better then simple things? Working with engineers I know the whole pricipal is KISS (Keep It Simple ****head). Well at least thats what they told me at General Motors.

 

[Ghost C]

So what? Toyota manages to do just the same, with less. My point is, it shouldn't be called an American revolution, because there is nothing revolutionary. They just haven't really improved for it to even be called...a succession...it's just...the same.

I don't even know why this discussion expanded to include every American manufacturer. The "American Revolution" crap is Chevy's thing, and only Chevy. It doesn't even include the rest of GM.

But I also doubt your Toyota puts out 275ft/lbs of torque

Anyway, I'm not sure Double_R knows exactly what he's talking about.

Agreed.

I'm not saying all Big American V8's are unreliable...I'm saying they're just overly simplistic, and the car itself is the one that pays.

How so? I prefer to work on engines without all the fancy crap on them that nearly never works right after you have to fix it.

 

[Drifting Thunda]

American cars do not guzzle any more gas than imported cars.

RX-8: 18 mpg
STi: 17 mpg
LanEvo8: 17 mpg
Supra: 17 mpg

LS6 Corvette: 19 mpg
LT1 Camaro/Firebird: 17 mpg
LS1 Camaro/Firebird: 18 mpg
'03/'04 Mustang Cobra: 17 mpg

You want me to list more? You must be comparing your Honda Civic or whatever to a performance car because performance is nearly always at the cost of gas mileage. Next you're going to be saying that specific output really means something.

American cars "only sell" in America because of America! We don't even export many of our cars. It has nothing to do with how we make them.

America makes cars fast and cheap but it won't be good? Have you ever owned a '93-'97 Camaro/Firebird with a 5.7L LT1 V8? That is a powerful car that you could get cheap when it was new and they are generally very reliable! What you say is, once again, bullshizzot to the 100th percentile.

Just my opinion but nothing about more modern American V8s are overly simplistic. And it sucks. All complications mean is more cost in initial purchase and more maintenence cost should there be problems. The Americans just use a different logic when they build their cars but they are not any lesser.

My friend had to pay nearly $1,000 U.S. to fix his Audi's heads because they have those crazy S-valves or whatever, and he did all the work himself! KISS is the only way to go, obviously the Europeans and the Japanese have no idea what working on their cars is like. Go change plugs and wires on an '88 Supra, oh wait you forgot to buy new gaskets for the throttle body which you have to remove to even GET TO the plugs. LAAAAME!!!! Yeah that's a real work of engineering art there!

 

[neanderthal]

....American cars "only sell" in America because of America! We don't even export many of our cars. It has nothing to do with how we make them......

you've been right on pretty much everything you've been saying to refute that other idiot whoever he is.

however i call bullshizzle on this one. GM and ford are multinational corporations and seek profitable operations in all countries/ markets.

american cars dont sell well in the rest of the world because they dont translate very well to other markets.
most of this is the inherent and wrongly held bias that they are all gas guzzlers.
some of it is the negative reviews of american cars in other countries' car magazines, when they get one to review.
some of it is because the american companies just dont bother to market thier cars properly (like making RHD C5 vettes for the UK) etc
some of it is because american cars are just too big, literally and figuratively for other markets.

and the combination of all the above; mostly that most of the rest of the world wants small cars, and lets face it, american small cars either suck compared to japanese models (think toyota and GM collaboration the toyota cavalier,) or are considered too big, even as a compact car.

points like this make the american car companies hesitant to enter the rest of the world markets. on that part you're right.

 

[JohnBM01]

Nice debate here, ladies and gentlemen.

I've said that Honda is a company that knows how to innovate a car against others in its segment. That can be said for the Odyssey, the Accord Hybrid, and even (maybe) the Pilot as well. In terms of innovations, practicality, durability, and endurance, would you call Chevrolet "America's Honda?" Where does Chevy stand in terms of practical cars, rugged trucks, capable sports cars, and sporty compacts vs. other American car companies? And if you elect to go this way, where does Chevy stand against foreign brands available in America?

 

[Layla's Keeper]

American cars are know gas guzzlers that dont turn and frankly that list of comparing cars weights is a load of biased rubbish. A bmw 645i the closet thing the europeans have to vettes????? WHAYT IND OF RUBBISH IS THAT!!!!!!

I compared midline sports cars/grand tourers that are in current production that have pricetags under $150,000 (with an exception for the Aston Martin DB9 which had the highest pricetag of the group). Try re-reading what I said. The BMW 645ci is currently the closest thing BMW has to a Corvette ever since the Z8 was cancelled. The Z8 was much closer to the Corvette, and the upcoming M6 will be even closer and will be a Z06 competitor.

Especially considering the M6 has received ACO and FIA homologation to compete in the GT1/GTS category at Le Mans and in the LMES.

Go on the topgear website and read away aswell. You should see wat the europeans think of your precious escalade.

My precious Escalade? I was comparing sports cars and grand tourers. Besides, I drive a 1970 MGB GT and a 1986 Dodge 600ES turbo convertible. I don't like sharing the road with large ill-handling behemoths that'll chew through my cars like tin foil. I'm glad Europeans think they're useless. Most American drivers don't have much use for them either. Read Road & Track or Car & Driver or Automobile. They hate Escalades too.

Also just because Ford owns jaguar and austin martin doesnt mean that they are the 1s turning the company around. Ofcourse they influence it but at the end of the day the car is still very european.

Umm, have you taken a look at Jaguar recently?

- The X-type was a colossal failure (serves 'em right for trying to make a Mondeo based Jag)
- The XJ sedan's redesign has been met with lackluster sales because it looks too much like the outgoing car.
- The XK8 still rides on a modified XJS-12 chassis from the late 70's with no clear replacement in sight.
- The S-Type R fell on its face when production cars were unable to meet performance claims.
- The F1 team had one podium to show for all its years of existence, and was sold to the Red Bull soft drink company while Cosworth was sold to Kevin ****ing Kahlkoven (co-owner of CART)

And to cap it all off because Jaguar is so deep in the red ($1,100,000,000 to be exact) that they had to close the legendary Coventry factory - the factory in which Sir William Lyons started the company - and cut 80,000 cars from production. If anything, Ford is running Jaguar into the ground with poor product and bad marketing. Hell, just think of Jaguar in F1! Jaguar never competed in F1 previous to Ford's involvement.

If Ford had taken 1/2 that money, linked up with Tom Walkinshaw Racing and Bob Tullius's Group 44, and gone back to Le Mans (where Jag made their name) and kicked the tar out of Audi (or Corvette in GTS with the XKR) then I'd bet you Jag wouldn't be in quite this mess marketing wise.

 

[Double_R]

how can a 6 sereies be the closet the europeans have to a vette batty boi

 

[Double_R]

and what american cars are sold in the uk?

 

[Double_R]

oh and american cars are rubbish dnt see them winnig any awards in the EU. And next time you come to europe look out for a american car. dnt say ford cause the uk lineup is completely different from the US 1.

 

[Double_R]

oh and american cars are ugly

 

[Joey D]

Learn how to compile one post please, you whore.

 

[1X83Z]

and what american cars are sold in the uk?

The only American cars currently being sold in both America and the UK are:

- Chrysler PT Cruiser
- Chrysler Voyager (US name: Chrysler Town & Country)
- Chrysler Crossfire
- Ford Focus
- Ford Maverick (US name: Ford Escape)
- Jeep Cherokee (US name: Jeep Liberty)
- Jeep Grand Cherokee
- Jeep Wrangler

 

[Double_R]

suck ma DONG blazinxtreme and d maverick is not sold in the uk. ford focus is uk designed and the rest of those cars on ur puny pathetic list of ugly rubbish cars dont sell.no 1 wants them.

 

[Layla's Keeper]

The 645ci isn't the closest thing produced in Europe to a Corvette. The closest thing produced in Europe to a Corvette is a TVR Sagaris.

Both are front engined, rear wheel drive, two seat sports cars with composite bodies, lots of torque, and relatively big engines compared to their competitors. And, quite honestly, a TVR Sagaris would probably annihilate a Corvette on a road course.

The reason the TVR line wasn't included in the weight comparison is because TVR's aren't sold in the United States. The new Russian ownership of TVR wants to sell the cars here, seeing remarkable interest in the TVR lineup thanks to incredible positive exposure (both from the videogame world and from a Tuscan's starring role in the movie Swordfish).

What I said is that right now the closest thing to the Corvette that BMW produces is the 645ci. Yes, the 645ci is a four seater, but it's also a surprisingly compact sports coupe with a great, powerful 4.5L DOHC V8 and amazing roadholding. I mean, look at these stats.

0-60 mph: 5.3 sec
0-100 mph: 12.8 sec
Quarter Mile: 13.7 sec @ 104 mph
Skidpad: .93g
Top Speed: 149 mph (limited)
Braking, 60-0 mph: 111 ft
Slalom Speed: 65.8 mph

I can't wait for the 507bhp 5.0L V10 BMW M6 to come on line next year. If the luxury grand touring 645ci can post good numbers like this then think of what a truly performance oriented version can do!

645ci

M6

Oh, and in case you didn't realize due to my effusive praise of the car, the BMW 6 series is my favorite German coupe in production.

 

[1X83Z]

suck ma DONG blazinxtreme and d maverick is not sold in the uk.

It may have recently been cancelled, but it was for a while, and its twin, the Mazda Tribute, still is.

ford focus is uk designed and the rest of those cars on ur puny pathetic list of ugly rubbish cars dont sell.no 1 wants them.

I know - European tastes are different that American ones. Believe it or not, there isn't a single British car here that sells - and two of them (Land Rover Freelander, Jaguar X-Type) are among the worst with regard to sales. US cars were designed for the US and sell well here, UK cars were designed for the UK and sell well there.

 

[Joey D]

suck ma DONG blazinxtreme and d maverick is not sold in the uk. ford focus is uk designed and the rest of those cars on ur puny pathetic list of ugly rubbish cars dont sell.no 1 wants them.

Even you could type the english language I might get in a huff over that, but since it was so poorly written I will shug it off and go my merry way. Oh and another note, I don't know what your dong is? The only thing I could think of is that you meant to say madding and slaughtered it royaly. Either way I think we should forget about RR and go about talking like humans.

 

[JohnBM01]

Hey, go easy on Blazin and Maverick. And cool off, Double. You may not agree with their views, but watch your language.

While I was happy that the Cobalt replaced the ugly latest Cavalier, I actually thought the Cobalt was sporty. It is no SRT-4 or at least not yet an SRT (or set me straight with some stats), but what it is is a pure performer from an American company that knows performance best, Chevrolet. The Aveo is perhaps Chevy's answer to all the "hot hatches" from Japan and maybe even the reborn Mini Cooper. The Aveo was not bad. We've covered the big vehicles, now let's go to the little people. What kind of threat does the Cobalt and the Aveo pose to the low-horsepower, sport compact market?

 

[Joey D]

Actually the Cobalt SS is right up there with the SRT (pushing 205hp). It's not as good as performer as the SRT, but let GM work the kinks out and there will be a contender. No Ford needs to get there act together and bring over the Focus RS. This way we will have some really good compacts in America.

I agree the Cobalt is much better then it former Cavy. I hated that car! My girlfriend drives an 03 Sport Verison of the Cavy. It has no power and I feel like I'm going to die whenever I get in it.