Gran Turismo 5 vs. Forza 3 - AI comparison Debunked

[RedSuinit]

Well, let's just acknowledge that the AI in GT5 is better than in previous GTs. It is still, sub-standard however. ie. worse than almost any other comparable racing game out there.

Other than by GT fanboys & apologists, this fact is universally recognized. It is unfortunate, because if, like me, you're financially committed to the PS3 platform, you're stuck with this reality.

If that really is true, then prove it. Head over HERE, and show what you got. Until then all you are doing is blowing smoke.

 

[topmounter]

The AI in GT5 is actually pretty good as long as it doesn't encounter a situation that it isn't specifically designed to handle.

 

[Abriael]

Well, let's just acknowledge that the AI in GT5 is better than in previous GTs. It is still, sub-standard however. ie. worse than almost any other comparable racing game out there.

Other than by GT fanboys & apologists, this fact is universally recognized. It is unfortunate, because if, like me, you're financially committed to the PS3 platform, you're stuck with this reality.

Sorry but you having an opinion doesn't make that opinion "universally recognized", and anyone that disagree "fanboys and apologists".

My opinion differs, i don't consider it sub-standard (I actually consider it pretty standard, with some low and some highs), especially with comparable racing games. And looks like there's quite a lot of people that agree with that notion.

 

[otago]

I just played Forza 2 whole evening and AI crashes into you even more often than in GT5

But how it drives - there is no comparison. Forza AI makes tight races with same as yours car from start to finish, and GT5 AI pass you on straight like it has twice more power than it should, and then stuck in turns like 80-years old.

So yes, GT5 AI is pretty bad, but not because it crashes into your car. That's happens in every other game, and in some of them even more

 

[Nitrius]

Hm, interesting. Good work though.

 

[EmArA]

well thanks for the video, i thought the AI was not good at one point but this video proves me wrong

cheers guys

Drive safely

 

[Chunk]

I would be very surprised, since the AI in GT5 does a ton of things that the AI in GT1 did not.

It's when I read this kind of hyperbolic crap that I know that some people simply persuade themselves of one way or the another just because they love to hate on something.

Does it really? I've put countless hours into each GT game. There were times I got up on Saturday morning, played GT2 all day, and went to bed, only to wake up the next day and do it again. I don't really see the difference in AI behavior throughout the entire GT series. They ignore your presence, they have an insanely large "comfort bubble" for passing maneuvers, and they all follow the racing line slavishly, regardless of vehicle type or traffic.

Maybe there are some subtle tweaks here and there, but I don't notice enough difference that I could honestly call GT5 an improvement over GT1.

The often called "trolls" or "haters"

Yeah, internet is just getting a terrible place for intelligent discussions latelly.

You might say trolling makes discussions on the Internet difficult, but I could say the same for snapping to judgment.

Paranoia about trolling and fanboyism like this is what drags down the level of discussion on the Internet. Trolling is only possible if someone takes the bait. The irony of trolling is that it is not the initial poster who is the troll, but the people who drag the argument on, post after post.

I made a statement that you could sum up as "in my experience, Forza's AI is better than GT." This is in response to the OP, who claims that GT's AI is as good as Forza.

Am I wrong? Am I trolling?

Is the OP wrong? Is the OP trolling? (I say no, FWIW, although the video is quite accusatory.)

And what of the people calling me out? Are they fanboys? Are THEY trolling?

Geez, it's getting pretty paranoid in here, isn't it! Why don't we all rip each others' throats out. That might soothe our aching egos!

Here's what's really going on here:

1) I think Forza's AI is better than GT, and GT5 is no better than GT1. My stated reason is, experience playing both series.

2) Abriael thinks GT5 has better AI than GT1, and that I'm being disingenuous about my experience playing these games--I'm simply trolling by suggesting that GT5's AI is no better than GT1.

A fair assessment? If so, I'd say Abriael's assertion is quite insulting. I know that people DO participate in forums simply to piss people off. But to assume that ANYONE who posts an opinion counter to yours doesn't honestly believe their position and is only presenting it to piss them off is....well, I'll keep my mouth shut. I've said my piece, and if someone cannot accept that I might have a different opinion, I don't really want to argue my point, because it won't do any good.

 

[RedSuinit]

I just played Forza 2 whole evening and AI crashes into you even more often than in GT5

But how it drives - there is no comparison. Forza AI makes tight races with same as yours car from start to finish, and GT5 AI pass you on straight like it has twice more power than it should, and then stuck in turns like 80-years old.

So yes, GT5 AI is pretty bad, but not because it crashes into your car. That's happens in every other game, and in some of them even more

I suggest you watch my video in this thread, as you can see the green Cappuccino keeps pace with me in the corner. When you race them with comparable cars, and use proper racing procedure and respect their line then it can get intense, and difficult to beat them.

 

[SavageEvil]

I just played Forza 2 whole evening and AI crashes into you even more often than in GT5

But how it drives - there is no comparison. Forza AI makes tight races with same as yours car from start to finish, and GT5 AI pass you on straight like it has twice more power than it should, and then stuck in turns like 80-years old.

So yes, GT5 AI is pretty bad, but not because it crashes into your car. That's happens in every other game, and in some of them even more

That depends on the race and what cars you are up against. If you fancy a challenging race in similar cars, head to arcade mode and choose the second difficulty setting, grab yourself the Zonda R and head to 2009 le Sarthe, check out the competition before starting the race, should you see a Panoz and BMW McLaren in the mix, start the race. You will battling for 1 place with both of them, the Panoz is extremely fast and the BMW just turns like a god. It seems that PD still likes having the AI drive like it's real life, they should include a fearless AI who drives like some of the complainers here. Considering that it's AI, if PD wanted to the AI could drive flawlessly like Schumacher every damn race and when you upgrade and pick a powerful car they will do so accordingly, we'll see how far you get.

The AI sets a decent challenge for those who aren't bent of overpowering it at every chance they get, sure the AI has big flaws like when you spinout, your car just isn't recognized at all, PD needs to fix that crap. People are frustrated because many games the AI always makes top priority to avoid your bumbling driving techniques, when it should be you who should learn the ins and outs of cornering and overtaking legally. It's not perfect, but the AI does what it has to. I do swear at times that the AI cars tend to accelerate faster on high speed courses, could be my complete lack of being able to individually tune my gears though. If you actually follow the faster AI cars, you can watch their braking lines. I do wished that they would attack more often, but sometimes it's just hard enough staying ahead of them in a comparable car. I have a video that I saved with my F1 Stealth on la Sarthe, just have no idea how to go about uploading and what not. You can even watch as I make some mistakes, I just have to figure out how to get it online.

...

I made a statement that you could sum up as "in my experience, Forza's AI is better than GT." This is in response to the OP, who claims that GT's AI is as good as Forza.

Am I wrong? Am I trolling?

Is the OP wrong? Is the OP trolling? (I say no, FWIW, although the video is quite accusatory.)

And what of the people calling me out? Are they fanboys? Are THEY trolling?

Geez, it's getting pretty paranoid in here, isn't it! Why don't we all rip each others' throats out. That might soothe our aching egos!

....

Considering the bold part, you obviously lack ability to read and comprehend clearly, go back and re read his original post and correct your mistake. Everything else you state can be seen as trolling, not purposely, but by fact of your own misappropriated information.

 

[rynedee]

Last time I saw a game without flaws, it was Pong

Nice, altho i would've enjoyed a selection of colors other than black and white. Messing with the tint knob wasn't the same... : )

 

[otago]

It seems that PD still likes having the AI drive like it's real life

I don't know, 95% of races in GT5 are like some 143 hp AI Golf catching up with my 245 hp Silvia on long straight and trying to overtake me. In turns AI so slow that I could beat AI Zonda C12 with Mugen Civic on High speed ring.

This is not AI and not races.

 

[Abriael]

Considering the bold part, you obviously lack ability to read and comprehend clearly, go back and re read his original post and correct your mistake. Everything else you state can be seen as trolling, not purposely, but by fact of your own misappropriated information.

This. Thank you very much

 

[SavageEvil]

I don't know, 95% of races in GT5 are like some 143 hp AI Golf catching up with my 245 hp Silvia on long straight and trying to overtake me. In turns AI so slow that I could beat AI Zonda C12 with Mugen Civic on High speed ring.

This is not AI and not races.

I was speaking about the AI driving as if it has a fear of dying in a crash, you know where they don't drive at break neck speeds. Them letting you win races is just PD making the game playable and not a snooze fest. Did you actually think that a 5 lap race in equal cars with a rolling start you would win? It's a game and while it could be more believable on PD programming part, you can make do.

Go to the GT All Stars and try that think you'll easily waltz through that, drive with a similar car too, not some overpowered monster as this seems to be how a lot of people like to play this game.

 

[RedSuinit]

I was speaking about the AI driving as if it has a fear of dying in a crash, you know where they don't drive at break neck speeds. Them letting you win races is just PD making the game playable and not a snooze fest. Did you actually think that a 5 lap race in equal cars with a rolling start you would win? It's a game and while it could be more believable on PD programming part, you can make do.

Go to the GT All Stars and try that think you'll easily waltz through that, drive with a similar car too, not some overpowered monster as this seems to be how a lot of people like to play this game.

👍 I lose a lot of races because I DO race comparable cars, and I do so almost 100% of the time.

 

[rynedee]

Other than by GT fanboys & apologists, this fact is universally recognized.

translation: If you don't count all the people that disagree with me you'll find that everyone agrees with me.

For future reference, a 'universal' fact would be something like the Law of Gravity or George Washington was the first President of the United States.

 

[otago]

drive with a similar car too, not some overpowered monster as this seems to be how a lot of people like to play this game.

Define similar car.

My 245 hp Silvia was blown on straight by AI Audi A2 1.4 (73 hp), and then I won race with Prelude having 8 seconds over Supra RZ, just three Tsukuba laps.

I have no idea what cars AI driving, seems like AI cars have nothing to do with any real life specs

 

[RedSuinit]

Define similar car.

My 245 hp Silvia was blown on straight by AI Audi A2 1.4 (73 hp), and then I won race with Prelude having 8 seconds over Supra RZ, just three Tsukuba laps.

I have no idea what cars AI driving, seems like AI cars have nothing to do with any real life specs

I'm sorry, but I am calling BS on this one. Post some video, or quit blowing smoke.

 

[Daverytimes]

Abriael try sending your video to Kotaku, am curious to see if they will pick up on it. In fact if its possible this video needs to be sent to every single site that review GT5. (perfect AI is still generation away but whoever downplays GT5's AI and Elevate Forza 3's AI deserves a massive spanking)

 

[Abriael]

Abriael try sending your video to Kotaku, am curious to see if they will pick up on it. In fact if its possible this video needs to be sent to every single site that review GT5. (perfect AI is still generation away but whoever downplays GT5's AI and Elevate Forza 3's AI deserves a massive spanking)

I actually did, but i don't see them ever publishing it, and admitting they were wrong in the process.

 

[Revelation1115]

I feel like Forza has better AI for many reasons. GT5 AI are perfect and NEVER EVER make a mistake, other than running you off the road and spinning you out. But in terms of following the line perfectly, yes GT5 wins; but racing against these perfect AI is no fun when your B-Spec AI is stupid as can be!

 

[otago]

I'm sorry, but I am calling BS on this one.

Go buy GT5 in nearest store. LOL

There is no point to post examples cause at least 90% of races are like this. How my slightly tuned to 90 hp 1967 Silvia came into the first place over AI Toyota GT2000 in one East Suzuka lap? Ask Polyphony

Yesterday I spent half an hour in Forza 2 repeating one race cause first AI car was slightly better

 

[RedSuinit]

Go buy GT5 in nearest store. LOL

There is no point to post examples cause at least 90% of races are like this. How my slightly tuned to 90 hp 1967 Silvia came into the first place over AI Toyota GT2000 in one East Suzuka lap? Ask Polyphony

Yesterday I spent half an hour in Forza 2 repeating one race cause first AI car was slightly better

I OWN GT5 and have even posted a video in another thread, this one to be exact, showing how that is not true. Once again, show some proof, or your just trolling.

 

[Chunk]

Considering the bold part, you obviously lack ability to read and comprehend clearly, go back and re read his original post and correct your mistake. Everything else you state can be seen as trolling, not purposely, but by fact of your own misappropriated information.

Perhaps you're right, although I don't think personal attacks are necessary. I re-read the OP and rewatched the video.

I stand by my statement; the OP's video in particular is an attempt to debunk another GT5 vs Forza3 AI comparison, and more than once in the video he says (paraphrasing) "GT5 and Forza behave exactly the same".

In my experience, the AI in Forza 3 exhibits much better racecraft than the AI in GT5. You're welcome to disagree with my opinion, of course, and I'd be happy to discuss it civilly. I won't insult you or accuse you of holding an irrational love for one game over another. I hope you'll grant me the same courtesy.

 

[RedSuinit]

Perhaps you're right, although I don't think personal attacks are necessary. I re-read the OP and rewatched the video.

I stand by my statement; the OP's video in particular is an attempt to debunk another GT5 vs Forza3 AI comparison, and more than once in the video he says (paraphrasing) "GT5 and Forza behave exactly the same".

In my experience, the AI in Forza 3 exhibits much better racecraft than the AI in GT5. You're welcome to disagree with my opinion, of course, and I'd be happy to discuss it civilly. I won't insult you or accuse you of holding an irrational love for one game over another. I hope you'll grant me the same courtesy.

What do you mean by "AI in Forza 3 exhibits much better racecraft than the AI in GT5" I feel like the actual race-craft in GT5 is quite good. For example the video I have posted in this thread show some very good race craft by the AI.

 

[SavageEvil]

Perhaps you're right, although I don't think personal attacks are necessary. I re-read the OP and rewatched the video.

I stand by my statement; the OP's video in particular is an attempt to debunk another GT5 vs Forza3 AI comparison, and more than once in the video he says (paraphrasing) "GT5 and Forza behave exactly the same".

In my experience, the AI in Forza 3 exhibits much better racecraft than the AI in GT5. You're welcome to disagree with my opinion, of course, and I'd be happy to discuss it civilly. I won't insult you or accuse you of holding an irrational love for one game over another. I hope you'll grant me the same courtesy.

Racecraft? No FM3 AI at times tries things that bullheaded people online do. While many may see that as great AI, in actual racing that is stupid as hell. I wouldn't call it personal attack, light jesting on my part, my apologies. I own every Forza game as well and while I think the AI in that game is incredibly more adaptative, the OP was stating that people are complaining about GT5 AI being stupid, when it's actually not. It's not the fastest acting AI, but it does what it can especially when you are driving comparable cars. I still have my complaints about it not being aggressive enough, but I am about to try Arcade mode on hard difficulty to see what results I get and if they are different from intermediate. I will send my video that I recorded about a week ago, and mind you I did the bumping of the AI and a few ignorant moves, but the AI held it's own and didn't blindly do stupid things either. I just have to find that thumb drive, why the hell didn't PD let up export then use the PS3 to upload outside of the game, man.

@Otago, go to arcade mode and select the intermediate difficulty and choose a course and that same car you used and enter a race, I guarantee that you will get a hard race. Make sure that the hp levels on the opponents cars are comparable else you might get completely overpowered. GT Life many races are just filler to get give you something to do, there are much harder races in there. GT All Stars is one, NASCAR extreme is another.

 

[Stune]

Great vid:tup:

 

[ruf-ctr2]

How about using yours before replying? I didn't once accuse you of saying that, I accused you of changing the subject. This is about saying GT5's AI is better than reported, which it is. Then you come in moaning that it's still not good enough. There are rant topic for emo poetry, find one of those.

Why does this forum not have a "ignore" function for morons like you???

 

[RedSuinit]

Why does this forum not have a "ignore" function for morons like you???

There is an ignore function, it's called the ignore list. Speaking of which...

 

[deviln3]

For people complaining about stationary car vs Ai.. and a moving car vs Ai... what the following video that chris posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-it_GUEcj4

Pretty good battle between the Ai and player... be sure to watch part 2 as well

 

[another-user]

I OWN GT5 and have even posted a video in another thread, this one to be exact, showing how that is not true. Once again, show some proof, or your just trolling.

im gonna have to side with the other guy on this one. ive seen it happen many times. on one of the expert series races, i was in the top 2 spots the entire time with a 385hp car, vs 600+ hp cars. as soon as i lost my #1 spot after 3 laps, the #2 car blew by me and put an 8s lead on me by the next check point, and started shaving off 10 seconds a lap. after some sort of glitch where the whole field pitted, the slowest cars shaved off 30s on their lap times instantly, and the fastest shaved off another 5 or 6s.

ive saved the demo, but i have no way to record it. best i can do is throw the actual save file on megaupload and go that way.