Gran Turismo 7 Confirmed to also launch on PlayStation 4, is a cross-gen title

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Are you disappointed GT7 is also on PS4 with gameplay & graphic assets held back by PS4 limitations?


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304
Germany
Germany
To me, "we'll continue looking at that" reads "there will be more crossgen first party titles beyond the three we've specifically listed".
100%. I am not born in a english speaking country, but when looking at the grammar it doesn't make sense that GT7 is a example for the consider part of the sentence. It's a example of the cross gen part.

If it would be considered then it would be ... "we'll continue looking at that - for GT7 -."
 
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20,681
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
I know they said PS4 Pro versions of games wouldn't have exclusive features over regular PS4 when that was released, but I don't think any such promise was made with PS4/5 cross gen games did they?

Because if PD have been forced into this I can very much see them hobbling the PS4 version with less features and content compared to the PS5, although of course that doesn't mean the PS4 wont hold them back, it'd be impossible not to In some way.
 
748
Russian Federation
Russian Federation
Kannon33r
Your just validating my point. More power, more speed. Just the same as a low end PC running Windows 10 and a really nice gaming PC running Windows 10. The gaming PC will run circles around around my PC but it still is a PC running Windows 10 with much better hardware and performance. Think about this. The PS5 runs most PS4 games with out the need for PS4 circuitry in the system like all other PlayStations before it. Therefore the PS5 has to be running the same operating system and architecture as the PS4 but with better motherboard, memory, CPU, hard drive, graphics card, etc. All just my opinion though and not trying to argue with anyone.
Yes, its gadget with same purpose and more power. But its not "just better PS4". Gameplay for PS5 games could be build in ways inaccessible for PS4 games.
 
599
United States
Farbanti, Erusea
Here's a question, why couldn't GTS have dynamic time of day and weather? Was it due to the PS4's hardware constraints?
 

MikeV27

Premium
2,809
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Ontario
MikeV27
By the time GT7 releases, the PS4 will be nearly 10 years old. It will probably still be good, but it’s too bad this game won’t live up to it’s potential because of old hardware.


Here's a question, why couldn't GTS have dynamic time of day and weather? Was it due to the PS4's hardware constraints?

If GTS had dynamic time of day and weather then this game would probably struggle to run at 30 fps while having worse graphics. That’s not what PD is about.
 
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13,690
United States
Los Angeles, CA
lImaRobotl
Here's a question, why couldn't GTS have dynamic time of day and weather? Was it due to the PS4's hardware constraints?
Because of the choices they made with what they want and don't want in the game.
 

snc

260
Poland
Poland
Here's a question, why couldn't GTS have dynamic time of day and weather? Was it due to the PS4's hardware constraints?
dynamic lightning is more performance expensive and gt sport targets 60fps and looks better than most consoles racing games
 
934
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
evildave333
Fantastic news that everyone can access this game regardless of which generation u own, none of the arguments against this make sense until we see the quality of the game... Lets face it Polyphony is not going to do a CDPR style launch with its premier title now is it?
 
599
United States
Farbanti, Erusea
If GTS had dynamic time of day and weather then this game would probably struggle to run at 30 fps while having worse graphics. That’s not what PD is about.


snc
dynamic lightning is more performance expensive and gt sport targets 60fps and looks better than most consoles racing games
Right thanks for the decent, non smart aleck responses.

"bEcaAUse Wahat tHeY wANted tO d0!"
 
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12
England
England
ChiefBossMane
Why cant we have a stand-alone GT7 for PS5 but for the time being - share the online portion of the game between PS4 & PS5?

I'd be willing to bet that today's GTSport players generally play sport mode or lobby. A nice meaty update with new tracks, cars and revamped lobby (with more settings/features) could satisfy new and existing PS4 players but also entice people to eventually migrate to GT7 on the PS5.

It seems pointless developing GT7 with PS4 players in mind, especially when Xbox are about to reach for the big guns in Forza. I appreciate how many PS4 GTSport players are in existence but it has taken nearly 10 years to get to there.

I'm a big PS guy but this kind of news make my head turn to Xbox, where it looks like the REAL next gen games are to be found.
 
243
United Kingdom
London
azzabry86
My two cents?

GT7 will always be a PS5 exclusive. I get the feeling doing a PS4 version just wouldn’t fly with Kaz. The guy is all about operating at the bleeding edge of technology. Question is does the buck stop with him? Does he have veto power over Sony execs regarding the multi generational status of the game? Because personally I sure hope he does.

However...
...there’s no reason why a GT7 for PS4 should be exactly the same feature wise as the PS5 edition. It can be done without compromising the overall quality of GT7 for PS5. Case and point Gran Turismo PSP. It’s essentially GT4 (a working title was GT4 PSP), but reworked for the handheld with many features removed. Oddly enough night tracks were a missing element, alongside tuning and a proper career mode.

I can imagine GT7 on PS4 featuring the following restrictions.

- No raytracing (this being the most major change)
- Lower level of detail (e.g. 3D trees vs 2D trees, crowds, textures)
- Lower number of cars on track (already respectable)
- Dynamic weather. Doesn’t have to look fancy, hell even GT6 had this (looked pretty ropey but heh it worked)
- Dynamic time of day. Blend some pre-baked visuals in the vein of the more recent Assassins Creed games and problem solved.
- Better load times. Who cares? Not a big deal.

That’s it. Seriously.

Think about it, racing games are pretty simple really right? What else would define a PS5 Gran Turismo vs a PS4 Gran Turismo?

I think most of the processing power is dominated by implementing raytracing (RT). Put it this way, F1 2021 for PS5 can only handle RT during replays. Remove the RT and voila you essentially have a PS4 game. Control PS5 edition (awesome game, highly recommended) can still only handle 30 FPS with RT turned on. It’s a flagship feature for next gen consoles, but fortunately can easily be removed when cross-gen is concerned.

TLDR? Nothing to worry about. GT7 will still look the absolute business.
 
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eran0004

Premium
9,693
Sweden
Sweden
eran0004
I don't think people are geuninely suggesting there won't be any differences, but if the only differences are graphics and loading times then the game is no doubt being held back by the PS4 version or game design that doesn't push/take advantage of the PS5 well enough.

A PS5 version of a game should have better graphics and loading times sure, but it should also have better physics, AI, level design etc.

Sure, that’s certainly one possibility. I just don’t see why we should assume it’s going to happen. It’s perfectly possible to make two different versions of the game, they don’t even have to be compatible with each other.

I mean, GTA V will soon span across three generations. They didn’t limit the PS4 version to what the PS3 could handle and I don’t think they will limit the PS5 version to the PS4 either.
 
13,690
United States
Los Angeles, CA
lImaRobotl
Right thanks for the decent, non smart aleck responses.

"bEcaAUse Wahat tHeY wANted tO d0!"
That's literally what it is. They decided this is what they wanted. They wanted to put more emphasis on other things. They didn't want to make compromises in other area's just to make it work, that much has been explained as well. It's not impossible, it never was, they made the choice for their games to go out that way.

It's literally a design choice and there was nothing smart-assed about the comments you received and that you couldn't grasp that doesn't make it as such.

Sure, that’s certainly one possibility. I just don’t see why we should assume it’s going to happen. It’s perfectly possible to make two different versions of the game, they don’t even have to be compatible with each other.

I mean, GTA V will soon span across three generations. They didn’t limit the PS4 version to what the PS3 could handle and I don’t think they will limit the PS5 version to the PS4 either.
It's a possibility to do something like that even though no other current gen games seem to be taking that route, sure. It just doesn't seem plausible. GTAV also isn't a game that was coming out in multiple generations of console at the same time, so I don't really think that one fits too much. That's practically a remaster, and as we know, remasters don't work on their prior consoles.
 
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snc

260
Poland
Poland
My two cents?

GT7 will always be a PS5 exclusive. I get the feeling doing a PS4 version just wouldn’t fly with Kaz. The guy is all about operating at the bleeding edge of technology. Question is does the buck stop with him? Does he have veto power over Sony execs regarding the multi generational status of the game? Because personally I sure hope he does.

However...
...there’s no reason why a GT7 for PS4 should be exactly the same feature wise as the PS5 edition. It can be done without compromising the overall quality of GT7 for PS5. Case and point Gram Turismo PSP. It’s essentially GT4 (a working title was GT4 PSP), but reworked for the handheld with many features removed. Oddly enough night tracks were a missing element, alongside tuning and a proper career mode.

I can imagine GT7 on PS4 featuring the following restrictions.

- No raytracing (this being the most major change)
- Lower level of detail (e.g. 3D trees vs 2D trees, crowds, textures)
- Lower number of cars on track (already respectable)
- Dynamic weather. Doesn’t have to look fancy, hell even GT6 had this (looked pretty ropey but heh it worked)
- Dynamic time of day. Blend some pre-baked visuals in the vein of the more recent Assassins Creed games and problem solved.
- Better load times. Who cares? Not a big deal.

That’s it. Seriously.

Think about it, racing games are pretty simple really right? What else would define a PS5 Gran Turismo vs a PS4 Gran Turismo?

I think most of the processing power is dominated by implementing raytracing (RT). Put it this way, F1 2021 for PS5 can only handle RT during replays. Remove the RT and voila you essentially have a PS4 game. Control PS5 edition (awesome game, highly recommended) can still only handle 30 FPS with RT turned on. It’s a flagship feature for next gen consoles, but fortunately can easily be removed when cross-gen is concerned.

TLDR? Nothing to worry about. GT7 will still look the absolute business.
bigger problem is that cpu is not easy to scale so we know what that mean in terms of physics and car numbers..., gpu is easier to scale (but even some developers complaining about xss being problematic because of limited memory amount),rt is very demanding on ps5 and I'm not big fan to use it in gt7 as for example bigger impact would make better quality environement assets, also creating gt7 on 3 platforms now (ps4 ps4pro and ps5) for sure increased development time and polyphony is not like very fast studio
 
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599
United States
Farbanti, Erusea
I'm looking forward to seeing how the versions stack up.

It's literally a design choice and there was nothing smart-assed about the comments you received and that you couldn't grasp that doesn't make it as such.
Sure dude.
 
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55
Storm--Trooper-
I'm going to wait and see, but if its not a massive improvement on gt sport and they have to limit features ( dynamic time of day, sound, vr races with more than 1 car) they have saved me around £55 so not all bad news :)
 
13,690
United States
Los Angeles, CA
lImaRobotl
Sure dude.
It's fine to admit that you didn't understand what was being said. At this one you're the only one being a smart-ass here. Not only that, but it has been talked about plenty in the thread, so it's not on my end if you can't be bothered to follow what's being talked about, especially even those responding to you.

Odd that you had to edit out your original post just to double post a quote again.
 
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510
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
theufc33
Here's a question, why couldn't GTS have dynamic time of day and weather? Was it due to the PS4's hardware constraints?
Full disclosure: I am not a programmer, nor an environment artist, or a lighting artist - this is just what I know from things I’ve picked up on over time from various sources.

If GTS had dynamic time of day and probably weather, the game would’ve looked noticeably worse. This is because GT Sport uses baked lighting (ray traced at that), which is a visual step up from dynamic lighting, but is always static. This is the same reason that helps The Last of Us Part II look so good - all the lighting is baked. I don’t think baked lighting is a bad thing, it just depends on the game.

For TLOU and games like it, where TOD doesn’t really influence anything, gameplay wise (whereas races can take place from day through the night IRL), baked lighting is probably the way to go, if you’re not aiming for a dynamic system. The visual fidelity it has along with more resources for other parts of the game really helps if you’re trying to push the envelope, graphically. There’s no way you could run real-time ray-traced global illumination on the PS4 with a game of such complexity and fidelity (GTS or TLOU II, or pretty much any last-gen AAA game out there), not unless you drop the resolution dramatically and even then, it would run pretty poorly.

I believe that’s partly why GTS’ file size is so large, due to all of the light maps.

Here’s an article on GTP from a few years back which goes in depth about the lighting system:

https://www.gtplanet.net/polyphony-digital-reveals-gt-sports-iris-ray-tracing-system-at-cedec-2018/

EDIT: Having said that, I believe Horizon interpolated between “sets” of baked lighting for their time of day, if I recall correctly, so perhaps something like that could’ve worked for GTS? I’m not 100% though, I might be misremembering.

EDIT 2: They did interpolate between sets of baked lighting.

"For our indirect lighting solution, we used irradiance volumes. You can think of them as multilayered lightmaps, where each pixel of each layer has a 3D location in space, and multiple directions based on probe positions. We used this for both our static and dynamic objects, giving us a fully unified way of doing indirect lighting for all objects...

It also allowed us to have a dynamic time of day. We baked the indirect lighting of our sunlight at 4 times of our day/night cycle, to 4 different sets of irradiance volume textures, which we then blended overtime to give the illusion of having accurate indirect lighting across all times of the day."

https://www.resetera.com/threads/gu...cimas-lighting-and-render-systems-work.54431/

Having said that, I did notice that the interpolation did feel a bit... fast? A little unnatural. I wonder if this was because the lighting was baked four times. Not sure if it was a hardware limitation or just an artistic choice, but perhaps a few more “sets” would’ve made it look a little more natural. Definitely wasn’t bad, it was fine, just something I was thinking as I played.
 
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339
United States
United States
Question….

assuming that at the very worse….PD is 2/3 the way done developing the game, is it even possible for them to go back and “dumb” down the game that was designed for PS5 all along? From my POV, it would seem plausible to do this if they were only 1/4 way through the development. But it just seems like you would have to un-do a lot of work to get a cross-gen title this late in the game
 
510
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
theufc33
Driveclub done it and it’s never been bettered since
Driveclub ran at half the framerate which gives you twice the budget to work with. Not to say PD couldn’t do it, they absolutely could, but the visuals would suffer for it. So for PD I suppose it’s about where their priorities lie. Sacrifice the visuals somewhat to get in dynamic TOD and weather, or keep it static but the visuals remain as they are?

Having said that, I believe Horizon interpolated between “sets” of baked lighting for their time of day, if I recall correctly, so perhaps something like that could’ve worked for GTS? I’m not 100% though, I might be misremembering.

EDIT: They did interpolate between sets of baked lighting.

"For our indirect lighting solution, we used irradiance volumes. You can think of them as multilayered lightmaps, where each pixel of each layer has a 3D location in space, and multiple directions based on probe positions. We used this for both our static and dynamic objects, giving us a fully unified way of doing indirect lighting for all objects...

It also allowed us to have a dynamic time of day. We baked the indirect lighting of our sunlight at 4 times of our day/night cycle, to 4 different sets of irradiance volume textures, which we then blended overtime to give the illusion of having accurate indirect lighting across all times of the day."

https://www.resetera.com/threads/gu...cimas-lighting-and-render-systems-work.54431/

Having said that, I did notice that the interpolation did feel a bit... fast? A little unnatural. I wonder if this was because the lighting was baked four times. Not sure if it was a hardware limitation or just an artistic choice, but perhaps a few more “sets” would’ve made it look a little more natural. Definitely wasn’t bad, it was fine, just something I was thinking as I played.
 
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13,690
United States
Los Angeles, CA
lImaRobotl
Driveclub ran at half the framerate which gives you twice the budget to work with. Not to say PD couldn’t do it, they absolutely could, but the visuals would suffer for it. So for PD I suppose it’s about where their priorities lie. Sacrifice the visuals somewhat to get in dynamic TOD and weather, or keep it static but keep the visuals as they are?

Having said that, I believe Horizon interpolated between “sets” of baked lighting for their time of day, if I recall correctly, so perhaps something like that could’ve worked for GTS? I’m not 100% though, I might be misremembering.

EDIT: They did interpolate between sets of baked lighting.

"For our indirect lighting solution, we used irradiance volumes. You can think of them as multilayered lightmaps, where each pixel of each layer has a 3D location in space, and multiple directions based on probe positions. We used this for both our static and dynamic objects, giving us a fully unified way of doing indirect lighting for all objects...

It also allowed us to have a dynamic time of day. We baked the indirect lighting of our sunlight at 4 times of our day/night cycle, to 4 different sets of irradiance volume textures, which we then blended overtime to give the illusion of having accurate indirect lighting across all times of the day."

https://www.resetera.com/threads/gu...cimas-lighting-and-render-systems-work.54431/
I think most other games that have had it had made the right compromises to get it working and look well off enough for the game in general. The difference being GT has always had more utmost focus on looking pretty than outright game features really. In the end, it's because they decided it wasn't that important of a feature to make compromises for in order to get it working correctly because it doesn't line up with the vision of their game.
 

praiano63

Premium
8,996
Brazil
paracuru
praiano63
Evolution is only a oneway trip . Nature , technology..... PS4 will never run GT7. Never . Stone age people do not knew about quantum physic due to for their limitations. It don't fit.... The goal of a Cross-gen is to turn playable olders games in a new platform. I still play GTA-SA in my PS4 with a lot of pleasure.

Next GT7 model in carlist add ?? Really ? This is decadence.

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