Gran Turismo 7 Confirmed to also launch on PlayStation 4, is a cross-gen title

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Are you disappointed GT7 is also on PS4 with gameplay & graphic assets held back by PS4 limitations?


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Dave A

TreVoR fan for life
Premium
28,091
United Kingdom
Altrincham, Cheshire
JDA1982
They will not go for 30 FPS, I'm very confident of it. That would negatively impact too much on the car control and gameplay.
They will rather reduce resolution, do what they did GT5/GT6, work on non standard resolution and upscale it to 1080. Then remove or simplify graphical elements like smoke particles, dust, place simpler shadows and reflections, and even they may get rid of (or simplify) unnecessarily complex environment things like 3D trees. This should be enough
That might be enough, sure, but this is where our opinions will differ. I don't think they will reduce the resolution and particle effects. I agree that they might replace some 3d assets with 2d sprites in places, but I can't see them doing all of that, reducing the resolution and upscaling, probably having to remove HDR too and replacing assets.

I genuinely can't see them making enough of a combination of those changes. I could be wrong on that, but given Polyphony's history and the MO of Gran Turismo I just don't see it.
 
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456
Spain
Spain
That might be enough, sure, but this is where our opinions will differ. I don't think they will reduce the resolution and particle effects. I agree that they might replace some 3d assets with 2d sprites in places, but I can't see them doing all of that, reducing the resolution and upscaling, probably having to remove HDR too and replacing assets.

I genuinely can't see them making enough of a combination of those changes. I could be wrong on that, but given Polyphony's history and the MO of Gran Turismo I just don't see it.
Japanese give so much importance to gameplay and good control in general, and PD is no exception, and they know 30 FPS sucks for these kind of games that require precision.
Also I think some are blowing the "new improved physics hardware demands" out of proportion.
 
37,049
Australia
The Bronx
SpacedustDaddy
Can't stress enough how paramount offline play needs to be in this game.
It needs to combine everything in the way we've have the past games plus, how Forza mixed up their Championships and how current racing games give players tiers to choose.

Players need somewhere to go in GT to take a break from online racing. I need... getting personal now, to switch to offline and immerse myself in that part of the game. Like I used to and do, in other games.
 

Dave A

TreVoR fan for life
Premium
28,091
United Kingdom
Altrincham, Cheshire
JDA1982
That. They can add all the features you can think of and structure it really well, but if you can't have a good race then the title has no value.
It's a combination of things for me, they need to evolve the games graphics, features and physics, but I also want them to nail the AI and the games structure.
 
456
Spain
Spain
Can anyone give a good example of good AI in racing? Because I dont know any.
I mean, an AI like behaves like a good and fast driver who also has racing and overtaking skills.
 
20,177
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Can anyone give a good example of good AI in racing? Because I dont know any.
I mean, an AI like behaves like a good and fast driver who also has racing and overtaking skills.

Literally any game that isn't Gran Turismo. GRID, Project CARS, Assetto Corsa, F1, Driveclub. I could go on. In Project CARS 2 at full 120% difficulty I can easily find myself genuinely struggle to catch and pass the car ahead for several laps if I've not quite got the pace.

None are so good that they are as fast as the best real players, we're still a way off that, but they're all magnitudes better than GT and can provide good enough racing for those of us who prefer not to play online.
 
38,918
Man, back in the day, where you'd boot up Viper Racing and have to run extremely consistent and smooth laps if you didn't qualify well in order to catch up with the top 3; and even then you'd likely only win if they started fighting each other for position and slowing each other down (or if you were lucky and they fought for position and wrecked each other).





That being said Forza's AI is pretty bad too, so while it's not as bad as GT6's "The AI Slows down to keep from passing you" I don't think it's particularly better.
 
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37,049
Australia
The Bronx
SpacedustDaddy
Can anyone give a good example of good AI in racing? Because I dont know any.
I mean, an AI like behaves like a good and fast driver who also has racing and overtaking skills.
If you haven't tried AC, ACC, and PC, Grid Autosport touring car AI was fun. You're missing out. I know people bring up Gran Turismo 3 AI, but having AI from the other games mentioned, programmed in GT Sport and GT7...:drool:
 
7,360
Denmark
Denmark
Last gen wouldn't be able to handle changeable weather or day/night cycle during races like current gen, so either they'll be no races with those conditions or last gen is gonna have to drop frames or resolution. Being a racing fan on the original Xbox S, this is a subject close to my heart and I think PD will have to work a miracle to keep both sets of fans happy.

Dynamic time was possible for GT on the PS3, so the PS4 can also handle that. The only reason why GT Sport used static time slots was to prioritize frame rates and crips craphics, but GT7 might not have this priority on PS4 when a PS5 version exists. Dynamic weather? Was this ever confirmed?
 
I don't want to beat the CPU horse further to death, but I found this old post regarding the physics refresh rate of various titles. Rigs of Rods & Beam NG are might impressive.



Annoyingly, no GT titles are listed and I couldn't find anything searching.

Gran Turismo 4 physics ran at 60Hz

Kaz thought 300 - 600Hz on PS3 would be possible, but nothing was confirmed.

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/kazunori-on-gran-turismo-4-interview.11117/

So it uses less computing power than Assetto Corsa Competizione? Interesting. It seems as though PD can squeeze a little bit more performance from the PS4.

GT Sport is one of the least demanding so called AAA games if this plugin is accurate, its average cpu usage is 69% with full grid and sunny weather on SPA.

I need to do some testing with 38 cars.

*edit*

granturismosport_20219pkz5.jpg


ACC / full grid / spa / dynamic weather / 87%

Driveclub 62%
 
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456
Spain
Spain
If you haven't tried AC, ACC, and PC, Grid Autosport touring car AI was fun. You're missing out. I know people bring up Gran Turismo 3 AI, but having AI from the other games mentioned, programmed in GT Sport and GT7...:drool:
I think PCars isn't good. Horrible physics. 1 and 2 that I have played.
I haven't personaly played the PC 3 but one friend has and he confirmed me it's similar rubbish.
I have played AC on PC aswell and I think it's good but I dont feel like spending money on the PS4 version
 
1,212
United States
California
JoshsoJB
Gran Turismo 4 physics ran at 60Hz

Kaz thought 300 - 600Hz on PS3 would be possible, but nothing was confirmed.

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/kazunori-on-gran-turismo-4-interview.11117/



GT Sport is one of the least demanding so called AAA games if this plugin is accurate, its average cpu usage is 69% with full grid and sunny weather on SPA.

I need to do some testing with 38 cars.

*edit*

granturismosport_20219pkz5.jpg


ACC / full grid / spa / dynamic weather / 87%

Driveclub 62%
Original PS4 or Pro?
 
2,638
France
France
I have a question : Forza Motorsport 7 have a day/night cycle and dynamic weather ?

If yes, then GT7 can have these features on PS4, right ?
 
450
Italy
Italy
I have a question : Forza Motorsport 7 have a day/night cycle and dynamic weather ?

If yes, then GT7 can have these features on PS4, right ?
Nope forza hasn't a truly day night cycle,digital foundry explains how it works in this video below:

from min 14:45


Fom this reddit post it seems also the weather it isn't truly dynamic as was on GT5/6 or other games


So yeah i don't think on the ps4 version of GT7 it is possible to implement a truly dynamic tod/weather with that level of graphics and locked 60fps that they aim for
 
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oneloops

(Banned)
723
United States
United States
Dynamic time and weather on PS4 would require lower quality graphics overall from GTS. That is plainly obvious.

With other rendering methods and optimizations you can increase the graphics quality or/with even less resources.

That's software improvement.

Look at blender, with cycles and eevee improving quality with less resources in almost every version. Cycles-X under developpement, faster rendering time with the same quality... on the same hardware.

Look at the evolution on vray, unreal engine...

Every software can improve its quality and can be faster with changes, optimization and developpement without always lowering the other side (graphics quality / speed).

Software is not a zero-sum game.
 
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20,177
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
With other rendering methods and optimizations you can increase the graphics quality or/with even less resources.

That's software improvement.

Look at blender, with cycles and eevee improving quality with less resources in almost every version. Cycles-X under developpement, faster rendering time with the same quality... on the same hardware.

Look at the evolution on vray, unreal engine...

Every software can improve its quality and can be faster with changes, optimization and developpement without always lowering the other side (graphics quality / speed).

Software is not a zero-sum game.

Of course but there is always an eventual limit with optimisation, the hardware. GTS did not release early in the PS4 life, it came 4 years after release, 5+ years since PD had access to it. It seems pretty likely that PD got the most out of it by that point, and any improvements still left in it are very small.
 

oneloops

(Banned)
723
United States
United States
Of course but there is always an eventual limit with optimisation, the hardware. GTS did not release early in the PS4 life, it came 4 years after release, 5+ years since PD had access to it. It seems pretty likely that PD got the most out of it by that point, and any improvements still left in it are very small.

In those cases is when alternative methods can be used, for example, changing the render engine (or a better version of it).

Also, in software and rendering when something seems to achieve the limit very often they look for new methods that improves a lot the result using the same sofware, like cycles (10 years of continous developpement) vs cycles-X (introducing more advanced rendering algorithms)
in blender, this example with cpu, but also it improves the performance with new GPUs and with old GPUs :


Some technical improvements explained:

https://docs.google.com/presentatio...RBQoIImC6nBCgEE/edit#slide=id.gc5d34a7405_0_2

Other example on GPU rendering with a 6 years old GTX960,
more than 2x faster by software with the same hardware and same quality 5'55" vs 13'10" :

https://blenderartists.org/t/cycles-x/1300231/147
 
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1,893
Czech Republic
Prague
karelpipa
Interesting analogy. I get your point and generally agree, however, not sure you'd get that from Bugatti, however there are multiple car manufacturers who have stopped building and selling certain models or features that use lots of chips "to meet supplier needs"...

For example, if you're American, your last 2? SUVs probably had auto stop/start. Your next one wont have that feature this year...

https://eu.freep.com/story/money/ca.../08/gm-pickups-suvs-chip-shortage/7601235002/

Vehicle software IS going backwards and has been going backwards all year due to (supplier needs) chip shortages.

Having stop/start is not better for the car/user nor ecology. So its not an advancement.
 
1,893
Czech Republic
Prague
karelpipa
It all hinges on AI for me. If that is still terrible, with catch the rabbit format, what they do with the rest of the game is irrelevant.

Yeah, AI and erasing the catch the rabbit format is the single most important single player change for Gran Turismo 7.
From the whole series i have had best races from all GTs in the first Gran Turismo where the AI was almost reckless or in GT2. If you did not have an overpowered car of course. :)
Example:
 
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