Gran Turismo 7 Confirmed to also launch on PlayStation 4, is a cross-gen title

[ynot]

One thing people have touched on here is that next gen titles means more than just "GFX".

Sony and Microsoft sold their asses on next gen games needing Gen 4 NVME 5gb/sec whatever transfer speeds.

Oh btw. we will make it compatible with the Ps4's 5,400rpm sata 500gb hdd!

My feeling about cross gen games is a bit poisoned by my experience with Forza Horizon 2 but I dont think Sony will go down that path.

I think PD will make this work. I am convinced that PS4 will hold back the title to some degree but not by much.... OR their grand vision wasnt that ambitious in the first place. We're looking at a GT7 which has single player elements from GT4 but has GT Sport online. That's it.

There's nothing there that needs ps5 power... as long as you're happy with fhd60 on ps4.

I agree with you that GT7 is going to be just GT Sport 2 in a fancy GUI with a number 7 on it since everyone cried like a baby about it called Sport and not 7. If it had been called 7 and not Sport we could have saved a lot of typing on this site with all the back and forth. I could care less what it is called and long as it has Gran Turismo in front of it.

Like others have mentioned, if the AI is just as horrible as it is in GTS, I have basically zero interest in the offline stuff.

the horrible…HORRIBLE AI makes GTS career mode basically unplayable for me

You really should find a group to race with online. So much more fun that the career mode and the dreaded Sport Mode.

 

[Vspectra]

Why would a PS4 version necessarily compromise the PS5 version? GT3 looked better than GT4 on the PS2 and GT5 looked and performed better than GT6 on the PS3. So I wouldn't be surprised if a PS4 version of GT7 would repeat this story against GT Sport, but with the PS5 version of GT7 being the new-generation experience it was always intended to be, cross-generation or not.

Some people might have liked GT3's more vibrant colors but that was just a change in art style. Technically GT4 looked better all around.





With GT6 Polyphony actually increased the internal resolution to get even closer to full 1080p, but for the 720p mode they used a different form of AA that smeared up the image and made it rather blurry. So GT5 in 720p output looked sharper and better than GT6's 720p output, but GT5's 1080p mode looked worse than GT6's 1080p mode. They also added tessellation to the cars for GT6 which was really impressive and the cars made for it looked a lot better than GT5's.


Would be interesting to hear Kaz's true thoughts on having to waste time and resources making a PS4 GT7 given what he has said in the past regarding new console generations.


2010:

Kaz: “Software has to be created under the restriction of the hardware,” he told the latest issue of Esquire UK. “With each new PlayStation, the vessel has become bigger, but it’s still not enough. With Gran Turismo 5 we’ve made it as clean and beautiful as possible within the confines of the space we’re given – but of course there’s a lot more that we want to put in.”​

2014:

Kaz: "In terms of what he and his team have been able to accomplish as game hardware has progressed, Yamauchi feels that simulators have come far in being able to better approach reality while at the same time noting that advancements in hardware always bring out new things that can be conveyed in games—a back and forth process that he quite enjoys. Going forward, he’s optimistic about how video games will keep evolving in the future, hoping that PlayStation hardware always pushes the envelope for what games can offer and that the Gran Turismo series will be there along with it on the front lines. He wants risks to keep being actively taken as the industry keeps growing."
​

2019:

“VR is something that really depends on the evolution of GPU power, and the hardware for it, like display devices even. It’s something where you can never have enough computing power; there’s always going to be that hardware limit, and that limit is never going to be high enough for us!”​

 

[oneloops]

Some people might have liked GT3's more vibrant colors but that was just a change in art style. Technically GT4 looked better all around.





With GT6 Polyphony actually increased the internal resolution to get even closer to full 1080p, but for the 720p mode they used a different form of AA that smeared up the image and made it rather blurry. So GT5 in 720p output looked sharper and better than GT6's 720p output, but GT5's 1080p mode looked worse than GT6's 1080p mode. They also added tessellation to the cars for GT6 which was really impressive and the cars made for it looked a lot better than GT5's.


Would be interesting to hear Kaz's true thoughts on having to waste time and resources making a PS4 GT7 given what he has said in the past regarding new console generations.


2010:

Kaz: “Software has to be created under the restriction of the hardware,” he told the latest issue of Esquire UK. “With each new PlayStation, the vessel has become bigger, but it’s still not enough. With Gran Turismo 5 we’ve made it as clean and beautiful as possible within the confines of the space we’re given – but of course there’s a lot more that we want to put in.”​

2014:

Kaz: "In terms of what he and his team have been able to accomplish as game hardware has progressed, Yamauchi feels that simulators have come far in being able to better approach reality while at the same time noting that advancements in hardware always bring out new things that can be conveyed in games—a back and forth process that he quite enjoys. Going forward, he’s optimistic about how video games will keep evolving in the future, hoping that PlayStation hardware always pushes the envelope for what games can offer and that the Gran Turismo series will be there along with it on the front lines. He wants risks to keep being actively taken as the industry keeps growing."
​

2019:

“VR is something that really depends on the evolution of GPU power, and the hardware for it, like display devices even. It’s something where you can never have enough computing power; there’s always going to be that hardware limit, and that limit is never going to be high enough for us!”​

The comment in 2010 has sense in how special was ps3 and hard to make big games with great graphics in it. PD achieved a great result on ps3 in my opinion.

Kaz is always looking forward like there was no limit in order to imagine his perfect GT, that's a great way to achieve better results than being too conservative fixing "the limit to the hardware".

Software engineers have to push their limits and their imagination and then is when unexpected and great results arrive.

Software developpement and new ideas are more important than people think, breaking theorical hardware limits and making new things possible as for example all that has achieved Blender, cycles, optix, cycles-x, eevee and unreal engine even with old GPUs.

Unreal engine 5 for example will have ps4 support, it can make big improvements compared to unreal engine 4 (not so huge like on ps5 and modern pc but we will see).

Compared to UE4, how Unreal Engine 5 can run on a 6 years old GPU, R9 390 :

 

[alphaV12]

In the trailer, PD said: "Get ready for the NEXT GEN". It is weird that Polyphony said this and PUM, GT7 is cross-gen (Not yet confirmed). In addition, Kaz wants 240 fps and more functions for VR, things that need a lot of power. A power that PS4 hasn't got but PS5 maybe yes. If GT7 is cross-gen, maybe Sony forced PD make GT7 for PS4.

 

[karelpipa]

Wait, was the name of this thread changed??

 

[wicken]

Wait, was the name of this thread changed??

I seem to remember it being like this ever since the topic was created by the OP.

 

[aguia]

Think how much easier it'd be to get to A+, though.

I'm more interested in the game than the A+ rating.

 

[Theufcveteran]

Some people might have liked GT3's more vibrant colors but that was just a change in art style. Technically GT4 looked better all around.

It’s amazing how well 4 still holds up. Especially the Hong Kong circuit. Sure, you can tell it’s an older game, but the art style and texture work still looks good today.

 

[GT Kelv]

I don’t even have a PS5 yet and think this is a stupid idea. Sony should take notes from Microsoft and the next Forza Motorsport and it it on next Gen only and not hold back the game from being the best it can be. They already only reasr this game a could le times a decade.

 

[Freeman_Cruz]

It’s amazing how well 4 still hold up. Especially the Hong Kong circuit. Sure, you can tell it’s an older game, but the art style and texture work still looks good today.

The textures of the Hong Kong circuit are a blurry mess.
Decent for their time but already in the PS3 era they were below the minimun acceptable and it was one of the reasons that the circuit did not appear again in GT5.

 

[BigSarj]

I'm more interested in the game than the A+ rating.

I thought you would have caught the sarcasm.

Anyway, I've been playing on all sorts of platforms since the early eighties. Atari 2600 was my first console. I still remember two other kids at my table in school had the NES while I didn't. I never cried about it then and if I didn't already have a PS5, I wouldn't be upset about it now. I would just save my pennies until I could get one. This has always been the nature of consoles and now, because of backwards compatibility, people are willing to have the industry held back to satisfy their own wants. Sony's profit margins shouldn't be very relevant to what's best for the consumer.

I'm disappointed that there may not be all that dynamic weather or better AI but I expect the physics to be ever so slightly improved and that will be good enough for me to open up my wallet.

 

[NickXP]

Deleted

 

[Novalee]

I don’t even have a PS5 yet and think this is a stupid idea. Sony should take notes from Microsoft and the next Forza Motorsport and it it on next Gen only and not hold back the game from being the best it can be. They already only reasr this game a could le times a decade.

What exactly do you think is going to be so much better on the ps5 ?

from gt 1 to gtsport all we really got was upgrades in graphics .

 

[Dave A]

What exactly do you think is going to be so much better on the ps5 ?

from gt 1 to gtsport all we really got was upgrades in graphics .

If you believe that, go back and play GT1 or GT2 again. We have had significant upgrades the physics and (don't laugh) AI, though on the AI front it's still way below what people want it to be.

We've also had offroad racing included since GT2, weather effects in GT5 and 6 which will hopefully make a return. Dynamic lighting (also in 5 and 6) and damage since GT5 (it was also in GT2 albeit in a highly limited way), not to mention online.

Each console generation has seen significan improvements in a number of ways. GT Sport is nothing like just being GT1 but prettier.

 

[Novalee]

i

If you believe that, go back and play GT1 or GT2 again. We have had significant upgrades the physics and (don't laugh) AI, though on the AI front it's still way below what people want it to be.

Each console generation has seen significan improvements in this regard. GT Sport is nothing like GT1 but prettier.

over simplified admited but really in the big picture no one can say that Gran turismo series is all of sudden going to turn into a console mirror of iracing or rfactor2.

I consider what Pd has done through the years as more of adjustments than development . It is all just my opinion though.

I dont want people to have some grand idea in their minds to be disappointed later on is all really .

 

[Dave A]

i

over simplified admited but really in the big picture no one can say that Gran turismo series is all of sudden going to turn into a console mirror of iracing or rfactor2.

I consider what Pd has done through the years as more of adjustments than development . It is all just my opinion though.

I dont want people to have some grand idea in their minds to be disappointed later on is all really .

No, and it never will because it doesn't operate that space, that doesn't mean we haven't seen significant improvements in a number of areas. Your comment wasn't over simpliefied, it's just factually wrong.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, that the PS4 won't hold GT7 back or that GT7 will be a dissapointment because we won't see improvements?

 

[Novalee]

No, and it never will because it doesn't operate that space, that doesn't mean we haven't seen significant improvements in a number of areas. Your comment wasn't over simpliefied, it's just factually wrong.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, that the PS4 won't hold GT7 back or that GT7 will be a dissapointment because we won't see improvements?

I have played every gt up to gtsport and i stand by my opinion .

my point is if the game is fun to play , for 90 percent of the people including me , that is all that is going to matter , regardless of platform .

let me ask you few questions now.
Do you think pd is going to model the tires properly on ps5 ?

why do you suppose no racing team uses gran turismo as a simulator ? or even retired drivers ?

I keep hearing about all these changes that could come for the ps5 console but no one can say what these improvments actualy will be.

Night and day transitions is no problem for ps4 . weather changes is fine on ps4 .
so that leaves physics and graphics . what exactly will they do with the physics ? If they had 20 years to make them half realistic , they would have by now but they havnt and wont so i dont see giant leaps there .

Graphics and models can be improved by a better console, i agree there .

Higher framerate can be achieved on ps5 , i agree there .

larger grid size i agree should be higher on Ps5 .

The higher framerate is important to racing games so i would consider that a honest gripe , to me though that is about it .

 

[Dave A]

I have played every gt up to gtsport and i stand by my opinion .

my point is if the game is fun to play , for 90 percent of the people including me , that is all that is going to matter , regardless of platform .

let me ask you few questions now.
Do you think pd is going to model the tires properly on ps5 ?

why do you suppose no racing team uses gran turismo as a simulator ? or even retired drivers ?

I keep hearing about all these changes that could come for the ps5 console but no one can say what these improvments actualy will be.

Night and day transitions is no problem for ps4 . weather changes is fine on ps4 .
so that leaves physics and graphics . what exactly will they do with the physics ? If they had 20 years to make them half realistic , they would have by now but they havnt and wont so i dont see giant leaps there .

Graphics and models can be improved by a better console, i agree there .

Higher framerate can be achieved on ps5 , i agree there .

larger grid size i agree should be higher on Ps5 .

The higher framerate is important to racing games so i would consider that a honest gripe , to me though that is about it .

If you want answers to these questions go back and read through this thread, everything has already been discussed to death and there's even an article covering how the PS5 could limit the PS4 version. By all means, share your opinion, but your statement/opinion on the progress of GT1 through Sport just being graphical upgrades is 100% factually wrong. You can claim that's your opinion all you want, it's still wrong. If I say that in my opinion the moon is green*, that may be my opinion but it's still wrong.

*I do not think the moon is green, it's blatently obvious it's fuschia.

 

[Novalee]

If you want answers to these questions go back and read through this thread, everything has already been discussed to death and there's even an article covering how the PS5 could limit the PS4 version. By all means, share your opinion, but your statement/opinion on the progress of GT1 through Sport just being graphical upgrades is 100% factually wrong. You can claim that's your opinion all you want, it's still wrong. If I say that in my opinion the moon is green*, that may be my opinion but it's still wrong.

*I do not think the moon is green, it's blatently obvious it's fuschia.

lol i myself do not question peoples opinions . which is why im not arguing . I stand by my opinion and i accept yours .

 

[Dave A]

lol i myself do not question peoples opinions . which is why im not arguing . I stand by my opinion and i accept yours .

Yet, that's exactley what you did literally in your last post before this one . All of the answers to your questions can already be found in here if you read through the thread. You might find it interesting and then have follow up questions from that, if you do, feel free to question away, that's the point of a discussion forum after all and questionning opinions is part of that. But I'm not prepared to repeat all of the points already discussed again when you can just read the thread.

 

[Theufcveteran]

The textures of the Hong Kong circuit are a blurry mess.
Decent for their time but already in the PS3 era they were below the minimun acceptable and it was one of the reasons that the circuit did not appear again in GT5.

Right, but it's a PS2 game. The texture work in terms of the materials used for the game make it look pretty good to me. Of course they look blurry today but back then, on a CRT? That would've looked great, in my opinion.

 

[GT Kelv]

What exactly do you think is going to be so much better on the ps5 ?

from gt 1 to gtsport all we really got was upgrades in graphics .

Well you name the biggest advantage of it being on a next-Gen console. I’m sure they could the new hardware like Turn 10 is doing with their new tire model and it’s multiple points of compact for each tire being scanned a lot faster. Something. If they’re not gonna take advantage of the new hardware then just release on PS4. Let someone else put it to use since Polyphony isn’t. To move forward you have to let go of the past. Forza is doing it why can’t they? They should be willing since it was announced as a next Gen exclusive.

GT came out in 1996 and only has 7 games? Forza came out late 2000’s and has just as many titles if not more than GT. I love GT. I have all of them except 3 titles. But come on, this is takes the cake. One thing I hope they fix is how the camera doesn’t move to the from looking directly at the rear of the car when drifting. It made drifting feel too stiff in my opinion. Get that camera to move slightly to ether side showing some of the side of the car. They also needed more current super and Hyper-cars too.

 

[Tornado]

Right, but it's a PS2 game. The texture work in terms of the materials used for the game make it look pretty good to me. Of course they look blurry today but back then, on a CRT? That would've looked great, in my opinion.

Eh. The modeling quality was and to an extent (so long as those awful Forza 2-era models keep getting dumped into Forza games a decade later) still notably good for the way they were designed (single piece models frequently using textures to show complex shapes instead of modeling them), but the texture quality was starting to get a bit questionable even in GT4.



More specifically, PD faking lighting by painting low resolution shadows onto the car texture, but also the cars (many holdovers from GT3 but not all of them) where the texture wasn't applied correctly to the model mesh and "floated" over the car body (the CLK-DTM is the immediate example that comes to mind). It probably wouldn't have been noticeable on a CRT, no, but it definitely was running at the hacked together "1080i" resolution on an HDTV or if you looked at the wrong thing too closely in when taking photos. I think Enthusia in particular had car models/textures that were at least as good or better, but the actual game image quality was always so poor in comparison to GT4 as well as the super flat/bland lighting that it doesn't appear to be the case at first glance.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Night and day transitions is no problem for ps4 . weather changes is fine on ps4 .
so that leaves physics and graphics . what exactly will they do with the physics ? If they had 20 years to make them half realistic , they would have by now but they havnt and wont so i dont see giant leaps there .

They didn't include those things in GTS because they wanted 60 FPS. They don't have a solid 60 either. There's no way they are going to find the horse power to add dynamic time of day and weather. You can improve code over time, yes, but not to that extent.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I get that they want to maximise sales but if the new Forza has been built to run specifically on the new hardware it would make Sony and PD look foolish by limiting what they could do by having to support the PS4.

Take the next Forza Motorsport too, one of the things they are doing with thier physics model is improving the contact patch physics of the tyres from a single point to eight.

I don’t even have a PS5 yet and think this is a stupid idea. Sony should take notes from Microsoft and the next Forza Motorsport and it it on next Gen only and not hold back the game from being the best it can be

First off let me make it clear I do not have a PS5 nor do I at this time have plans of purchasing one. Even if the new gt7 is released on the PS4 I will not be one that purchases it more than likely until its price is bottom shelf level.
For me Sony and some of their practices and with GTS certain aspects within that game sort of turned me off on the gt series. Now that is out of the way.

Personally I think Sony shackling the GT7 game to still play on PS4 specs and consoles totally defeats the main purpose of coming out with a "next gen" game that actually highlights the capabilities of the new PS5 console.
Not good for the game series or the new hardware and a really bad decision overall.
History says lead times for new editions of Gran Turismo the time frame between releases is probably longer than just about any other game series release in the industry and for PS5 GT sim racers this will handicap their next gen experience of this series for a long while.

As far as Forza is concerned again although my sim racing has switched all to PC this is not a title I own BUT I can go into the Steam store on my PC and purchase and add it to my PC game library and play it on my PC platform.

This does give Forza a sales advantage and the ability to take full advantage of and highlighting the new x box specs and capabilities while again knowing those improvements will probably also increase sales to their PC customers as well as again a new game that takes more advantage of higher spec hardware with new features, more advanced physics, lighting, AI and so forth will probably be more attractive to the pc sim racer.
Overall this does open up the market to more potential players as their sales are not limited to a single platform.

Also the forums and You tube will be full of post and videos showing just how far the new Forza blows the new GT7 out of the water also giving xbox a marketing win and bragging rights for their sim games, again just another loss for Sony


Basically also just consider the concessions that have been made between a game like ACC on the pc side and its port to the PS4 and the hold back in features and performance because of the lower console hardware between those versions is very apparent.

 

[aguia]

I thought you would have caught the sarcasm.

Anyway, I've been playing on all sorts of platforms since the early eighties. Atari 2600 was my first console. I still remember two other kids at my table in school had the NES while I didn't. I never cried about it then and if I didn't already have a PS5, I wouldn't be upset about it now. I would just save my pennies until I could get one. This has always been the nature of consoles and now, because of backwards compatibility, people are willing to have the industry held back to satisfy their own wants. Sony's profit margins shouldn't be very relevant to what's best for the consumer.

I'm disappointed that there may not be all that dynamic weather or better AI but I expect the physics to be ever so slightly improved and that will be good enough for me to open up my wallet.

Sorry but my English are bad to sarcasm...
Anyway, my first comsole was a Sinclair ZX Spectrum 128k with cassette box, and in fact I'm not very interested in going back to using Paint Brush games with MIDI sound
I'll wait for the PS5 to come out with GT7 included

 

[ArR29]

They didn't include those things in GTS because they wanted 60 FPS. They don't have a solid 60 either. There's no way they are going to find the horse power to add dynamic time of day and weather. You can improve code over time, yes, but not to that extent.

GTSport runs at 60fps 99.8% all the time on both PS4 and Pro with a very rare drop at 54 fps based on the graph that's been posted here, could be easily patchable if people were able to report it to PD but frame counter is not available on console. Sounds pretty solid to me performance wise.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

GTSport runs at 60fps 99.8% all the time on both PS4 and Pro with a very rare drop at 54 fps based on the graph that's been posted here, could be easily patchable if people were able to report it to PD but frame counter is not available on console. Sounds pretty solid to me performance wise.

But if they built GT7 as they were acting like they were to actually take advantage of the PS5 hardware specs with day/night transition with weather, improved lighting and shadows /reflections with a more advance tire model along with a smarter AI and also increased grid sizes just to what point do you think the PS4/Pro would run as compared to the PS5 that was now forced to be using all of its available hardware power to adequately run the game with all the new added improved features?

Just personal opinion I think it is a mistake to launch GT7 which was being touted to be a next generation title with all these new features and not take full advantage of the all of the ability of the new PS5 hardware to the maximum they could.
It is a disservice to the game franchise and also to those players that have bought a new PS5 mainly to play the new GT7 title.

I know if I had of been an early buyer of a new PS5 system looking forward to a new cutting edge GT7 game and then was told months later they had decided to water the games advances and performance down so it could be a cross platform and operate at PS4 hardware levels I would probably be pretty pissed off for spending $500+ basically for nothing.

 

[ImaRobot]

GTSport runs at 60fps 99.8% all the time on both PS4 and Pro with a very rare drop at 54 fps based on the graph that's been posted here, could be easily patchable if people were able to report it to PD but frame counter is not available on console. Sounds pretty solid to me performance wise.

Weird how something that is easily patchable hasn't been patched.

 

[ArR29]

Weird how something that is easily patchable hasn't been patched.

Because people don't know where the actual framedrop happens and most won't even notice it because it's a rare occurrence. Unless you a have high end capture card like Digital Foundry uses to analyze console performance, it's hard to tell. I'm not even aware of it until the graph was posted here.