Gran Turismo 7 Custom Race thread

[ShonnDaylee]

Decided to run another one of my mostly stock car races with Sophy to test out @Voodoovaj 's claim on Sophy driving less in a conga line and swapping positions more. This time, I re–enacted the NSX Trophy race from GT2 with a few more modern cars.

​

Some of my favourite childhood memories are watching NA NSXes in all their varied colours race with each other, SO GLAD I can relive that in GT7!

The 2017 NC1 NSX has taken a severe power nerf to run with the NA NSXes.

It's hard to say for certain whether Sophy has become more prone to position changes without being able to roll back to 1.59 to test with the same race, but from what I do remember, Sophy cars really struggle to overtake each other unless there's a significant performance gap. With the 1992 and 2002 NSX, the newer car is slightly faster in theory, but not by such a large margin that Sophy can easily overtake with. In fact, I don't recall seeing a single position change with this grid that wasn't of my own doing prior to v1.60. Doing this race in 1.60, most of the 2002 cars made their way past the 1992 cars, and it actually shocked me.

Still, I think the 2002 NSX-R and Dragon Trial Seaside really highlight some of Sophy's worst shortcomings: they drive with automatic shifting and don't take a lot of kerbs. The game shifts the 2002 NSX disgustingly early, leading to it losing a lot of pace. And Sophy is still dangerously and unexpectedly slow at the infamous "Chicane of Death" because they avoid the big kerbs that are "meant" to be cut. Even on Professional difficulty and Boost set to Weak, I went from 7th to 1st in a little over 2 laps in the slower car, and I'm not a very good driver. I would've had a lonely race had I not mucked up the CoD at Lap 4. Although, when I took the giant kerbs of DTS and hopped the car a few times, I can of see why it'd be difficult to program an AI to handle that. Still a bit of a shame, though. I'd really love to see Sophy shift the cars manually for optimal acceleration in future updates; it would be really helpful to learn where each car likes to be shifted.

Unfortunately, Sophy AI still very much has a difficult time overtaking at Tsukuba, even with slower road cars like the NSXes.

What tires were all the vehicles on? Were they all on the same tire? I would assume they are on the default tire, no?

The regular AI, and SOPHY, both have issues with certain corners, no doubt. I can think of at least 5 off the top of my head (and there's many more). As far as SOPHY races go, I tend to stick with 500pp - 700pp (RH tires in most situations) as that seems to be the sweetspot for competitive races, in my experience. Anything above that and things start to get a little muddier.

The new update did seem to improve SOPHY as well. They take more risks, and go off-line more often now. Makes for a more dynamic experience. You do have to watch your mirrors a bit more now, though. They will make lunges and dives where you least expect it...lol

 

[XSquareStickIt]

What tires were all the vehicles on? Were they all on the same tire? I would assume they are on the default tire, no?

The regular AI, and SOPHY, both have issues with certain corners, no doubt. I can think of at least 5 off the top of my head (and there's many more). As far as SOPHY races go, I tend to stick with 500pp - 700pp (RH tires in most situations) as that seems to be the sweetspot for competitive races, in my experience. Anything above that and things start to get a little muddier.

The new update did seem to improve SOPHY as well. They take more risks, and go off-line more often now. Makes for a more dynamic experience. You do have to watch your mirrors a bit more now, though. They will make lunges and dives where you least expect it...lol

Oh trust me, they've always been bloodthirsty maniacs. I even named one of my Sophy racers "Ayrton Sophy"

​

I'm not good at setting up cars and don't like the time and expenses required to set up a whole grid, so I tend to run mostly stock cars (only some GT Auto parts and the occasional power nerf if really needed). In the case of the NSXes, they all come with Sports Hard tyres by default, and so that was what they were all running with in my previous NSX Trophy video.

But it's nice to hear another opinion on Sophy's aggressiveness and risk taking. Maybe Sophy really did get tweaked in v1.60.

I am super tempted to make a 600PP grid with RH tyres though... just need to find the time (and energy!).

 

[ShonnDaylee]

Oh trust me, they've always been bloodthirsty maniacs. I even named one of my Sophy racers "Ayrton Sophy"

You know what Ayrton says... "If you don't go for a gap you're no longer a racing driver"... Which he used to cover up a number of poor decisions, god love him. They must of used his philosophy to teach the SOPHY AI... lol

But it's nice to hear another opinion on Sophy's aggressiveness and risk taking. Maybe Sophy really did get tweaked in v1.60.

Oh, trust me. I've run enough SOPHY races to notice the improvement. I imagine there is some level of improvement with each update. Some updates improve more aspects than others. This one seemed to be a bit more noticeable than usual, me thinks.

I am super tempted to make a 600PP grid with RH tyres though... just need to find the time (and energy!).

Take the time to do it, when you can. That's a great setup. Just make sure that SOPHY can handle the vehicles as you've set them up. If you start the race and some of the drivers are flying off course, stop the race and either remove those vehicles, or try and balance them so SOPHY can drive them properly. Also, make sure they are either on the default tire, or Racing Hard tire, as they are the only two options SOPHY will pick (if the RH is available, it will tend to go that route). So, yeah it takes a little fine tuning, but in the end you are rewarded for your efforts.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Decided to run another one of my mostly stock car races with Sophy to test out @Voodoovaj 's claim on Sophy driving less in a conga line and swapping positions more. This time, I re–enacted the NSX Trophy race from GT2 with a few more modern cars.

​

Some of my favourite childhood memories are watching NA NSXes in all their varied colours race with each other, SO GLAD I can relive that in GT7!

The 2017 NC1 NSX has taken a severe power nerf to run with the NA NSXes.

It's hard to say for certain whether Sophy has become more prone to position changes without being able to roll back to 1.59 to test with the same race, but from what I do remember, Sophy cars really struggle to overtake each other unless there's a significant performance gap. With the 1992 and 2002 NSX, the newer car is slightly faster in theory, but not by such a large margin that Sophy can easily overtake with. In fact, I don't recall seeing a single position change with this grid that wasn't of my own doing prior to v1.60. Doing this race in 1.60, most of the 2002 cars made their way past the 1992 cars, and it actually shocked me.

Still, I think the 2002 NSX-R and Dragon Trial Seaside really highlight some of Sophy's worst shortcomings: they drive with automatic shifting and don't take a lot of kerbs. The game shifts the 2002 NSX disgustingly early, leading to it losing a lot of pace. And Sophy is still dangerously and unexpectedly slow at the infamous "Chicane of Death" because they avoid the big kerbs that are "meant" to be cut. Even on Professional difficulty and Boost set to Weak, I went from 7th to 1st in a little over 2 laps in the slower car, and I'm not a very good driver. I would've had a lonely race had I not mucked up the CoD at Lap 4. Although, when I took the giant kerbs of DTS and hopped the car a few times, I can of see why it'd be difficult to program an AI to handle that. Still a bit of a shame, though. I'd really love to see Sophy shift the cars manually for optimal acceleration in future updates; it would be really helpful to learn where each car likes to be shifted.

Unfortunately, Sophy AI still very much has a difficult time overtaking at Tsukuba, even with slower road cars like the NSXes.

Did you set the boost to weak? Your last comment makes me think you forgot to set Sophy's boost to weak.

Check that and report back.

 

[Marty_KAR]

Sophy or Regular AI for your Racing Enjoyment?

I'm not new to GT, but I am inexperienced with Sophy.

I raced a couple of Sophy Races last month, who were mostly perfect, and raced in a "conga-line". However, I recently reverted back to racing against the Regular AI as I read here that the Regular AI make more mistakes (...read as, they are more realistic).
So, during yesterday's Custom Races against the Regular AI (Boost set to Weak), I noticed that, occasionally, the Regular AI will lose rear end grip, miss braking points, and spin out. Therefore, I enjoyed seeing the Regular AI making those human-like errors, ...not always, but occasionally. This made my GT7 racing experience more realistic, and therefore, more enjoyable.

So, should I continue to race the Regular AI, or should I try Sophy again? Whay are the Pros & Cons?

PS: I really don't fully understand why, or what, Sophy is all about.
Couldn't Polyphony Digital just refine, enhance, improve, the Regular AI in GT7?

 

[ShonnDaylee]

Sophy or Regular AI for your Racing Enjoyment?

So, should I continue to race the Regular AI, or should I try Sophy again? Whay are the Pros & Cons?

Post Update 1.60 SOPHY races in a much more "human" like way. They definitely make mistakes, go off line, miss braking points, etc... So, it really comes down to how challenging you want your race to be. You can try SOPHY set to boost "normal", for a nice middle ground, but if you want the full on, human like, challenging experience, set SOPHY to boost weak.

PS: I really don't fully understand why, or what, Sophy is all about.
Couldn't Polyphony Digital just refine, enhance, improve, the Regular AI in GT7?

Well, some say that's exactly what they are doing. At present, SOPHY needs to be taught each car/track individually over time, and then adjusted from there (through updates). It's likely they are working towards the next title having SOPHY as the standard AI. It's just going to take some time. It's not a simple process, machine learning.

 

[Theufcveteran]

Sophy or Regular AI for your Racing Enjoyment?

I'm not new to GT, but I am inexperienced with Sophy.

I raced a couple of Sophy Races last month, who were mostly perfect, and raced in a "conga-line". However, I recently reverted back to racing against the Regular AI as I read here that the Regular AI make more mistakes (...read as, they are more realistic).
So, during yesterday's Custom Races against the Regular AI (Boost set to Weak), I noticed that, occasionally, the Regular AI will lose rear end grip, miss braking points, and spin out. Therefore, I enjoyed seeing the Regular AI making those human-like errors, ...not always, but occasionally. This made my GT7 racing experience more realistic, and therefore, more enjoyable.

So, should I continue to race the Regular AI, or should I try Sophy again? Whay are the Pros & Cons?

PS: I really don't fully understand why, or what, Sophy is all about.
Couldn't Polyphony Digital just refine, enhance, improve, the Regular AI in GT7?

You can get decent racing out of regular AI if you lower your ECU percentage to 96/95% on average after loading into the pre-race menu (give or take 1% in either direction depending on if your car is faster or slower), but if you're a good driver, then pushing 100% you should quite easily be able to take the lead.

But if you force yourself into making sure you're super clean at the expense of pace, that lack of pace evens things out a bit.

If you can use Sophy, go for it. The only con is that they don't drive in wet weather yet and their strategy with tyre wear and fuel consumption can, from what I've read, be dodgy. But if you play by the same strategy they use then it can balance it out, even though it's not ideal.

I actually don't mind the regular AI. I think it's the best non-Sophy AI in the series when set to Boost Weak and with the ECU nerf to bring things into line (the regular AI don't use full throttle after the first braking zone), it's actually a decent race.

In time trials, I consistently get silvers, rarely gold, and the AI with the boost on weak (artificial but it helps them and also significantly disables the rubberbanding if they're too far ahead), they usually stay fairly close to me, and if I make a mistake they're there to pounce, although unless it's a big off you can usually get back to the racing line and IIRC, they will back out if their line gets closed off by you returning to the track.

Although sometimes they hang it round the outside, but IIRC this is generally when you initiate the move and they're defending.

Still, I enjoy it. So if you're average like me, then you should get a good race out of regular AI, but Sophy will force you to drive at max pace.

Make sure to also but Boost to Weak when facing Sophy as well, otherwise they get the same rubberbanding as regular AI if they're too far ahead, and it also speeds up Sophy which is a nice benefit because their max pace potential is higher than it would be otherwise. Boost Off is still quick I think but not as much, and also has the aforementioned rubberbanding.

Sophy on Boost Weak still does have some rubberbanding, particularly they can set hilariously fast lap times if you are far ahead, but when you're in the pack it should be relatively natural pace. And if you're like me, you don't mind the AI cheating a bit if it makes it a close race (although I do understand not everyone likes this and I also think/agree that you should be able to break away if you're simply faster, ideally Boost Off would be ideal for that, but at the moment it has the rubberbanding where they significantly slow down if they're far ahead.

Not sure if Sophy on Boost Weak slows down when they're ahead but the effect is very much diminished if so compared to Boost Off.

I couldn't complain about it at least, and I really don't like when they slow down if you're ahead to catch up.

I much prefer them speeding up if you're ahead, although it's still artificial it feels more natural that way in a sense. You earned the position because you were faster, now it's time to defend.

At a guess, Sophy's non boost pace probably is fast enough to stay close (but personally, to be honest, I like the option because if you're really fast, it keeps them close) but obviously with Boost Off they slow down a ton when too far ahead.

-----

TL;DR

Regular AI can be a decent race with Boost Weak and 95/96% ECU/power restrictor on your own car applied in the pre race menu, also weather is available.

Sophy is quicker (make sure to also use Boost Weak for Sophy) and has better racecraft, IIRC they'll hang onto a dive up the inside even when the door begins to close whereas regular AI will back out earlier in that phase.

 

[TPGRacing75]

I wonder if both Sophy and Reggie are usable in the same race, and if so, has anyone experimented with it to see the results. Considering the regular AI's 95% throttle "bug" I wonder if say, using Sophy for your main rivals in a pack of otherwise regular AI or using the regular AI as slower class traffic would be viable?

 

[ShonnDaylee]

I wonder if both Sophy and Reggie are usable in the same race, and if so, has anyone experimented with it to see the results. Considering the regular AI's 95% throttle "bug" I wonder if say, using Sophy for your main rivals in a pack of otherwise regular AI or using the regular AI as slower class traffic would be viable?

Seems like SOPHY only races other SOPHY's, as far as I can tell. I imagine it would be a bit much for the game to try and process 2 separate AI systems simultaneously, even on PS5 Pro.

 

[M Stark]

Boost Strong = No Boost (AI drives at about the same pace as the base AI. I consistently finished these races with a larger gap to second when compared to the "Boost None" setting)
Boost Weak = Boost Strong (The AI is lapping around your pace. The best choice IMHO. I have some one make races that are near impossible to win when starting from the back).
Boost None = Boost Weak (The AI is a bit better than the base AI. I can win consistently on this setting, but it is a bit of a challenge.)

In addition to that, when I set Sophy Boost to Weak, the AI Difficulty options (beginner, intermediate, professional) don't seem to have any effect. The AI drives the same way in all of them which is a shame because I find it a bit too sweaty at times 😅

Interestingly, boost off feels the easiest to me while boost strong feels a bit harder compared to off but not by much.

Very confusing overall and I hope PD cleans this up a bit, eventually.

 

[Theufcveteran]

An update for Gran Turismo Integrale is in the works for July, and it will be the final content update, barring any new GT7 feature that could be implemented into the career.

Here's a little run down of what's coming:

---

Sophy League (PS5 only)

• 34 original Classic races with classical Greek event theming for event names (5 categories, each category rises in PP/car performance), battling "soldiers" of Sophy en route to competing against Sophy herself.
  
  
• A semi-abridged version of the Motorsport path (11 categories, 97 races minimum) where you battle against the digital drivers who are "splinters" of Sophy, all aiming to prove that they are the fastest drivers to ever compete, culminating in a showdown against Sophy.

Slip Risks

• Drift Trials with specified cars wherein you must complete three runs on each track, with each run having a higher score than the last. If you fail, you return to the first run.
  
  
• There will be a Slip Risks event for each Drift Trial-compatible track and layout in the game.

Shuffle League

• Spin the wheel, get a random car, race! Fast and easy to jump into races with very little setup.
  
  
• There are also separate wheel spins for tracks and PP limits should you want to spin those also, or only those.
  
  
• The document for this league will contain preset race settings that you can load for any shuffle race going forward, with just small changes like laps, grid start, or time of day if you like.
  
  
• Weather by default in these settings will be set to random, and so will the rival car selection.
  
  
• These shuffle wheels will be updated and their links updated within the document each time Gran Turismo 7 receives a content update.
  
  
• For the June 1.60 update, those cars and potential Sophy compatible track/layout will be added to the shuffle wheels, as well as the possible track/layout to some of the Classic path Sophy League events for more variety.

Manufacturer League

• New events for the models introduced in recent game updates.

Drivers

• All drivers will have completed biographies along with portrait images, which for fictional drivers, were created using the randomiser feature in Cyberpunk 2077's character creator.

---

There are also various other updates to existing documents, such as the correct time of day for different rounds in GT4 and GT World Challenge events, and to remove fuel consumption from sprint events and Formula events, except for Formula S, as it's period accurate.

For all other Formula events, it would just become an issue where the AI would fuel up at points when changing tyres, so you can't really prohibit it until necessary. And given they don't refuel IRL, I figured it made sense to disable the fuel consumption.

For sprint events, in real life, the teams will likely only fill the cars up for what the race distance allows, which I imagine is less than a full tank. So disabling the fuel consumption makes the car lighter to drive.

I noticed that GT3 cars are a bit sluggish with a full tank and I enjoy driving them more with the fuel consumption turned off - and given you can't set the starting amount of fuel, I thought disabling it would make them more enjoyable to play.

I also want to say that I have learned from the Integrale launch and the issues there were. That won't happen again. I'm making sure to be absolutely thorough with everything.

There's one more thing coming to the update.

I've wanted to incorporate an arcade mode into the career and while I had one published, it was quite over-complicated to track progress.

Further, I received some feedback where they said they preferred a more linear "I use this car on this track" approach.

Then I thought about GT3's arcade mode which I think had a nice depth with it being jump in and play, but it had progression as well.

It'll follow the GT3 model in so far as having preset cars per class. Or in this case, each stage. Each stage has a number of races, and the cars available are fixed for each stage. Finish each race in x place to complete the stage.

All cars will be stock so that the time-to-race is quick.

There will be two versions of the arcade - one that is suited for regular AI, and one for Sophy. The reason for this is so that rain can come into play for those tracks, and also because it means people on PS4 aren't limited on tracks for no reason.

There'll also be an option to run the arcade mode with custom cars meeting a PP limit after completing it.

The weather will be set to random.

 

[zjn]

An update for Gran Turismo Integrale is in the works for July, and it will be the final content update, barring any new GT7 feature that could be implemented into the career.

Here's a little run down of what's coming:

---

Sophy League (PS5 only)

• 34 original Classic races with classical Greek event theming for event names (5 categories, each category rises in PP/car performance), battling "soldiers" of Sophy en route to competing against Sophy herself.
  
  
• A semi-abridged version of the Motorsport path (11 categories, 97 races minimum) where you battle against the digital drivers who are "splinters" of Sophy, all aiming to prove that they are the fastest drivers to ever compete, culminating in a showdown against Sophy.

Slip Risks

• Drift Trials with specified cars wherein you must complete three runs on each track, with each run having a higher score than the last. If you fail, you return to the first run.
  
  
• There will be a Slip Risks event for each Drift Trial-compatible track and layout in the game.

Shuffle League

• Spin the wheel, get a random car, race! Fast and easy to jump into races with very little setup.
  
  
• There are also separate wheel spins for tracks and PP limits should you want to spin those also, or only those.
  
  
• The document for this league will contain preset race settings that you can load for any shuffle race going forward, with just small changes like laps, grid start, or time of day if you like.
  
  
• Weather by default in these settings will be set to random, and so will the rival car selection.
  
  
• These shuffle wheels will be updated and their links updated within the document each time Gran Turismo 7 receives a content update.
  
  
• For the June 1.60 update, those cars and potential Sophy compatible track/layout will be added to the shuffle wheels, as well as the possible track/layout to some of the Classic path Sophy League events for more variety.

Manufacturer League

• New events for the models introduced in recent game updates.

Drivers

• All drivers will have completed biographies along with portrait images, which for fictional drivers, were created using the randomiser feature in Cyberpunk 2077's character creator.

---

There are also various other updates to existing documents, such as the correct time of day for different rounds in GT4 and GT World Challenge events, and to remove fuel consumption from sprint events and Formula events, except for Formula S, as it's period accurate.

For all other Formula events, it would just become an issue where the AI would fuel up at points when changing tyres, so you can't really prohibit it until necessary. And given they don't refuel IRL, I figured it made sense to disable the fuel consumption.

For sprint events, in real life, the teams will likely only fill the cars up for what the race distance allows, which I imagine is less than a full tank. So disabling the fuel consumption makes the car lighter to drive.

I noticed that GT3 cars are a bit sluggish with a full tank and I enjoy driving them more with the fuel consumption turned off - and given you can't set the starting amount of fuel, I thought disabling it would make them more enjoyable to play.

I also want to say that I have learned from the Integrale launch and the issues there were. That won't happen again. I'm making sure to be absolutely thorough with everything.

Apoligize for the silly question. What is this Gran Turismo integrale you are talking about? Thanks

 

[Sir Crashalot]

Apoligize for the silly question. What is this Gran Turismo integrale you are talking about? Thanks

It's a custom career mode created by @Theufcveteran

Gran Turismo Integrale, a Player-Operated GT7 Custom Career, is Available Now!

Gran Turismo Integrale is available now, playable on PS4 and PS5 PLAY YOUR WAY Classic - Motorsport - Hybrid Powered by Gran Turismo 7 and made possible with its Custom Race feature - streamlined by specified, reusable player-input custom race settings - Gran Turismo Integrale is a...

www.gtplanet.net

 

[Voodoovaj]

Seems like SOPHY only races other SOPHY's, as far as I can tell. I imagine it would be a bit much for the game to try and process 2 separate AI systems simultaneously, even on PS5 Pro.

Oh no, it races you. It totally races you. Like real people, it deals with the most immediate issue first. If the driver behind is close enough to pass, it block him off rather than taking your position. If it's close enough to you, it will go for even the smallest gap, and likely bring some buddies with him. It has also become better at covering off the corner. I did 30 minutes at Suzuka last night and my hands still hurt. (side bar, I imagine it is also self scaling in difficulty, so the experience might be different for everyone)

Sophy or Regular AI for your Racing Enjoyment?

I'm not new to GT, but I am inexperienced with Sophy.

Depends. If you want it to be like a track day, where you just pass and there's no racing, then the regular AI is the way to go. Also, the regular AI is available for all tracks and all cars.

Sophy is only available for certain tracks (with the little Sophy heart) and it's a few updates behind on cars. Also, some cars are not available for some tracks even though they were release when the game launched.

I raced a couple of Sophy Races last month, who were mostly perfect, and raced in a "conga-line". However, I recently reverted back to racing against the Regular AI as I read here that the Regular AI make more mistakes (...read as, they are more realistic).
So, during yesterday's Custom Races against the Regular AI (Boost set to Weak), I noticed that, occasionally, the Regular AI will lose rear end grip, miss braking points, and spin out. Therefore, I enjoyed seeing the Regular AI making those human-like errors, ...not always, but occasionally. This made my GT7 racing experience more realistic, and therefore, more enjoyable.

(note, I am speaking boost weak only) The conga line is pretty much gone. They will move around more, which opens up opportunities for them. I don't know about the regular AI making mistakes, because I rarely see the regular AI. I can say Sophy pushes the limits and that can cause "mistakes"

I posted these videos (below) in another thread, but they are back to back comparisons so you can visually see the difference with everything being equal. Same car, same field of cars, same track, EXACTLY the same race setting. The only difference is regular AI vs Sophy (both set to boost weak). It's only 3 laps so the videos are short, but there's a lot to see.

regular AI - the race is over after 1 lap.


Sophy - Pay attention to all the cars around me. Watch how they enter corners differently, how they "back it in", and of course, notice the difference in the degree of difficulty.

PS: I really don't fully understand why, or what, Sophy is all about.
Couldn't Polyphony Digital just refine, enhance, improve, the Regular AI in GT7?

This is a complicated question. Prior to Sophy 2.0, I would have said YES. The regular AI could have been made better in very efficient ways. Why didn't this happen? Who can say without speaking to the people involved?

Now however, it's a different story. You can see Sophy making decisions on the fly, which requires computing horsepower. It isn't learning on the fly, it does that back at PD, but it is applying what it has learned in very unique ways. For instance, I was fighting for a corner against Sophy once, I covered off the inside (or so I thought) until the last moment and then moved a bit more wide to get a better line. Sophy actually gave me the over under. It stayed on the outside line until I moved, and it dove for the inside line the moment the gap presented itself, resulting in a block pass.

Like, serious, I play Sport Mode A LOT and real people rarely have this level of race craft.

The biggest downside is the effort required to balance the cars. With Reggie, balance is irrelevant. With Sophy, balance makes the experience shine.


I was very anti-Sophy for a long time. I didn't see the upside. Then, the custom races came and every update, it becomes a little better. IMHO, regular AI is a waste of time. I guess it's ok for farming credits.

 

[zjn]

It's a custom career mode created by @Theufcveteran

Gran Turismo Integrale, a Player-Operated GT7 Custom Career, is Available Now!

Gran Turismo Integrale is available now, playable on PS4 and PS5 PLAY YOUR WAY Classic - Motorsport - Hybrid Powered by Gran Turismo 7 and made possible with its Custom Race feature - streamlined by specified, reusable player-input custom race settings - Gran Turismo Integrale is a...

www.gtplanet.net

Wow, that's quite a huge work.
Lot of stuff to digest, will dig into it

Thanks

 

[ShonnDaylee]

Oh no, it races you. It totally races you. Like real people, it deals with the most immediate issue first. If the driver behind is close enough to pass, it block him off rather than taking your position. If it's close enough to you, it will go for even the smallest gap, and likely bring some buddies with him. It has also become better at covering off the corner. I did 30 minutes at Suzuka last night and my hands still hurt. (side bar, I imagine it is also self scaling in difficulty, so the experience might be different for everyone)

You misunderstood the post. I was responding to someone who was wondering if you could race Standard AI against SOPHY AI in the same race. Hence my answer of "SOPHY only races other SOPHY's", as to my knowledge, there is no way to have a mixed grid of the two separate AI systems.

 

[05XR8]

Fun fun fun.



They’re all within 2bhp. All bored to 2L(1952cc), 7,953 rpm(7,794 rpm with 2001cc Stroke equipped). Some cars have high compression pistons or crankshaft or polished parts. All cars have same gearing.

 

[pabloprp69]

Fun fun fun.



They’re all within 2bhp. All bored to 2L(1952cc), 7,953 rpm(7,794 rpm with 2001cc Stroke equipped). Some cars have high compression pistons or crankshaft or polished parts. All cars have same gearing.
View attachment 1462043
View attachment 1462063
View attachment 1462060
View attachment 1462061

Regular Reggie doesn't brake check in middle of turns anymore?

 

[Marty_KAR]

Oh no, it races you. It totally races you. Like real people, it deals with the most immediate issue first. If the driver behind is close enough to pass, it block him off rather than taking your position. If it's close enough to you, it will go for even the smallest gap, and likely bring some buddies with him. It has also become better at covering off the corner. I did 30 minutes at Suzuka last night and my hands still hurt. (side bar, I imagine it is also self scaling in difficulty, so the experience might be different for everyone)

(note, I am speaking boost weak only) The conga line is pretty much gone. They will move around more, which opens up opportunities for them. I don't know about the regular AI making mistakes, because I rarely see the regular AI. I can say Sophy pushes the limits and that can cause "mistakes"

I posted these videos (below) in another thread, but they are back to back comparisons so you can visually see the difference with everything being equal. Same car, same field of cars, same track, EXACTLY the same race setting. The only difference is regular AI vs Sophy (both set to boost weak). It's only 3 laps so the videos are short, but there's a lot to see.

regular AI - the race is over after 1 lap.

Sophy - Pay attention to all the cars around me. Watch how they enter corners differently, how they "back it in", and of course, notice the difference in the degree of difficulty.

Now however, it's a different story. You can see Sophy making decisions on the fly, which requires computing horsepower. It isn't learning on the fly, it does that back at PD, but it is applying what it has learned in very unique ways. For instance, I was fighting for a corner against Sophy once, I covered off the inside (or so I thought) until the last moment and then moved a bit more wide to get a better line. Sophy actually gave me the over under. It stayed on the outside line until I moved, and it dove for the inside line the moment the gap presented itself, resulting in a block pass.

Like, serious, I play Sport Mode A LOT and real people rarely have this level of race craft.

The biggest downside is the effort required to balance the cars. With Reggie, balance is irrelevant. With Sophy, balance makes the experience shine.

I was very anti-Sophy for a long time. I didn't see the upside. Then, the custom races came and every update, it becomes a little better. IMHO, regular AI is a waste of time. I guess it's ok for farming credits.

Thank you Voodoovaj, ...you've won me 👍

I'm glad to read, and see, that SOPHY is being continuously updated, and that their "conga-line" type of racing has been phased out. Your videos were a perfect display of the differences between the Regular AI and SOPHY 👍

Yes, I too find the Regular AI a little easy to contend with, so I'm looking forward to racing the more challenging SOPHY.
Today I'm going to put some effort back into setting up Custom (SOPHY) Endurance Races and see how I go.

Regular Reggie doesn't brake check in middle of turns anymore?

Yes, they do.

Not ALL of them though, mainly those Regular AI who are at the back of the pack, ...the front-runners don't seem to brake check.

I did 2-hours at Bathurst, against Regular AI (Boost wet to Weak) just yesterday, and some of the back marker Regular AI braked checked me just before, and at mid-corner. The leaders, ...not so much.

 

[Theufcveteran]

Apoligize for the silly question. What is this Gran Turismo integrale you are talking about? Thanks

Like @Sir Crashalot said, it's a custom career for GT7, the post Sir Crashalot linked covers it all. If you decide to play, I hope you enjoy!

As an aside, I know I've been talking a lot about the career lately - I'm just excited to share bits from the arcade mode I'm working on because I really find the gamification stuff fun.

I'm leaning into the spirit of arcade and taking inspiration from Sega Rally Championship (thank the Delta Integrale rally car for jogging that up!).

Spoiler

 

[05XR8]

Regular Reggie doesn't brake check in middle of turns anymore?

Still does. In the Brands Hatch video I avoided before contact. It was mainly me not adjusting my closing speed.

 

[pritchyTim]

Throwing a vote in for Reggy as worthy, @Voodoovaj, if you play by its rules!

You can’t take your Sophy setup in and expect anything good, as we’ve encountered. It’s brutal game design, but Reggy drives at 98%ish throttle in Custom Race (replay will show, happens after turn 1 most of the time). The game is designed to give the player an unfair advantage, and it gatekeeps the whole experience. Or at least it did until the Sophy-in-Custom-Race update. It was my privilege to stumble upon this thread (long before that update) and learn from you lot how to get the most out of the Custom Race feature and the then-nameless Reggy/Reggie.

In order to force a fair* fight, I keep a second tune sheet that I flip to in the prerace lobby (and flip away from after each race) to bring my own power down, to be in line with the AI. The exact downtune depends on car, circuit, and driver, probably 87-97 range on the power restrictor, and I like to shorten gears (thanks, UFCVet!) a bit, too. The latter gives me a little more relative oomph out of corners, letting me catch and keep slipstream down straightaways into realistic passing opportunities. Without this bit, you can create situations where you can only really pass in that/those section(s) where the AI is bad, as you lack the top end the AI can reach, even at less than full throttle. This assumes you’ve balanced the grid, of course. FWIW I find power/weight ratio to be more reliable for balancing than PP, at least for Reggy.

It’s a tedious habit to train - if you forget to ‘uptune’ your car post-race, the AI will be nerfed in that car the following week when you boot up that grid again. Still - it gave me years of great pre-Sophy Custom Racing and continues to be relevant for me when I want rain, or non-Sophy circuits.

You (Voodoo) may already be familiar with the above. Sorry to pile on, if so! If not, I hope it offers a counterpoint and opens up some more gameplay for you!

As I said up top, “play by its rules,” meaning to separate your Sophy and Reggy rulesets. I don’t take this setup into my Sophy races… but I write this part to suggest one probably could? The core concept is ‘make your car worse so the AI is comparatively better,’ (sorry I wrote all those words before, hah!). To whoever is out there that finds Sophy too easy, this can possibly get you closer to your preferred experience!

*Regarding “fair” fight - this method merely puts you on the same ‘car capability’ level as the AI. You’re still experiencing the old, inferior AI, quirks and all. I choose Sophy pretty much whenever possible…a lot of my play guided by Integrale progression. Not doing enough of that lately (sorry, Vet)!

(Also, weak boost for all of the above, 100% of the time.)

 

[Revengel]

@pritchyTim

I've actually done quite a bit of custom race work in this area. Defined as follows:

• Prior to Sophy: I have a custom race (a few actually) using Reggie where I drive either a 512BB or an engine swapped Pantera. Each is about 590PP. Reggie's cars are all well into the 600 (650-685 IIRC) in order to provide a challenge. All cars are on SH tires, all races are at least 10 laps, Heavy Damage, 3x Fuel and 5x Tire wear.
• Now with Sophy: I have a race series called the 590 cup. Same damage, fuel and tire wear; I balance the laps on the various tracks using the prize money as a barometer. I've tuned several cars but all cars - mine included - have SH tires and between 589.2x and 590.00 PP.

Night and day these changes are.

Like @Voodoovaj I race in sport mode. A LOT of racing in Sport Mode. I do find myself playing more and more single player because of this. it's more than just grabbing a car in VR and putting around a track with an H-Pattern shifter, it's the competition. It's making sure I have enough fuel to survive the race and still come out on top. I don't always win. I'll play with the lap count (the default is about 25-30 minutes) to introduce more strategy. E.G. 24 laps of Spa introduces either a two-pit strategy or extreme fuel saving (I don't use the fuel map) which is difficult to do as Elka (the Audi R8) can pit twice and still pass my lanky behind. Shinosuke (NSX) has better fuel economy than I do.

The key takeaway is to do the same thing w/ Reggie, I have to crank up the other cars to an obscene amount just to be competetive. Sophy is competitive right out of the box.

Here are a couple of replays I've shared on Gran Turismo 7. I should do a supercut and put some of this on YouTube.

590 Cup at Dragon Trail vs. Sophy

and . . .

590 Cup Spa vs. Sophy

I am very happy to post my setups and the races I use if there's an interest.

 

[benjoi84]

Wow, that's quite a huge work.
Lot of stuff to digest, will dig into it

Thanks

...and there's an update due this month.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I've discovered a thing. The make up of the cars you race against when allowing the game to chose you, depends not just on the make of your cars but also the colour of you car. When I set up a nine hour race with my Skyline G24 in Jade I get the same field every time. IF I switch to my white R34 I get a different field. In both cases the cars were totally stock and I can switch between them to get the "random" field back again.

 

[Theufcveteran]

I've discovered a thing. The make up of the cars you race against when allowing the game to chose you, depends not just on the make of your cars but also the colour of you car. When I set up a nine hour race with my Skyline G24 in Jade I get the same field every time. IF I switch to my white R34 I get a different field. In both cases the cars were totally stock and I can switch between them to get the "random" field back again.

That's interesting! So if you make a new custom race with either car, you get the same grids each time? Strange that even colour can adjust it. I wonder if PD just operates on "if anything on car different = new grid".

 

[Tired Tyres]

That's interesting! So if you make a new custom race with either car, you get the same grids each time? Strange that even colour can adjust it. I wonder if PD just operates on "if anything on car different = new grid".

No. Just tried again with the jade car and got a different filed unless the Porsche 959 was hiding somewhere down the field.

 

[Theufcveteran]

No. Just tried again with the jade car and got a different filed unless the Porsche 959 was hiding somewhere down the field.

Ah gotcha. If you save a random grid race then load it through the custom race settings, it might keep the same grid but if you make a new custom race with random opponents, I think it's random each time even with the same car.

 

[pritchyTim]

That's interesting! So if you make a new custom race with either car, you get the same grids each time? Strange that even colour can adjust it. I wonder if PD just operates on "if anything on car different = new grid".

Knowing almost nothing about software development, myself, I AM familiar that “random” is really hard to truly achieve. Each car (including diff copies of same model) might bring a unique ‘seed’ and thus generate its own unique pool…a second layer grabbing up to 19 of those to fill your grid.

@Revengel - thanks for sharing! I think I tricked myself, long ago, into believing my “downtune during prerace” method was leading to different results vs. a “go in with an inferior car” approach. Kind of like how pre-race lobby tune adjustments don’t impact the race payout, my testing (old enough to the point it’s possibly irrelevant) seemed to expose a ‘difficulty lock in’ whereupon launching a (pre) race would acknowledge your current PP and build the game around that (payout AND relative AI pace). I have nothing beyond my own boredom/frustration during those tests to indicate this is true, but I feel the association to the very-visible ‘payout lock in’ is a decent one.

I didn’t watch your videos - yet! Am curious, when you say the changes are “night and day,” what do you mean, specifically? I think my point is that we can find ways to make Reggie-racing enjoyable, probably not to prefer it in Sophy-eligible situations but to give ourselves access to the full list of circuits/layouts and not allow the default gatekeeping (98% throttle) to prevent our having fun. You describe the different setups for your Reggie and Sophy races but what’s the takeaway? Of course, Sophy is better, but are you finding Reggy any good?

I also notice the PP discrepancy, obviously focusing on Reggy-mode for this comment (agree, the game balances Sophy/player really well using PP). When I landed on my ‘pre-race flip’ method, I noticed the familiar “i am way too good” feeling when launching the pre-race in my already-downtuned state (not waiting until pre-race lobby to downtune). This was what led to my “AI is setting its difficulty to my starting PP” thing, as I combined that logic with the default “player gets a 2% throttle advantage” convention. It may be because you’re a much quicker driver than I, but your PP difference is 50-100 points from the AI field of cars.

I don’t suppose any of this is right or wrong. Having a vastly inferior PP vs. the AI is better for payouts, for one. Just interesting. Curious what happens if you take a 670ish-tuned 512BB into your Reggy grid and knock it down to your familiar 590 in pre-race. Does the AI smoke you?

 

[pabloprp69]

Ah gotcha. If you save a random grid race then load it through the custom race settings, it might keep the same grid but if you make a new custom race with random opponents, I think it's random each time even with the same car.

To add to this, if you select "garage cars" and have your equipped car with RH tires, the whole grid will adopt the same car with the same tires. That's useful in case you want to have a one make race with every car tuned the same. No need to manually add the whole grid.