Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[Techlet]

Wel he actually said this
“Understeer. Maybe not the most entertaining, but if you want to win, recognize that a little of it is your friend, and get by with a little help from your friend.”
Link

Not quite preferring an understeer setup but how to use it on cars where the race series regulations prevent a lot of tuning parts for setup changes,

Try again…

Have you tried reading the rest of the article?

If you're just going to take the first Google result that pops up, then have a video where he talks about car setup:

 

[CTRL Garage]

Have you tried reading the rest of the article?

If you're just going to take the first Google result that pops up, then have a video where he talks about car setup:

Have you tried linking sources in the first place so we don’t have to find them for you?

Edit: and the video explains how cars react in GT7 how again? Understeer as a preference for performance? Ok gotcha, watch a video and think you know it all

 

[s0cks]

I guess I need to boot the game up and actually try the new physics. Just having too much fun in iRacing atm though!

 

[s0cks]

I might believe the "too easy" if I didn't race faster people than I am online. Yesterday I tried the WRX Gr.3 on RS tyres in sunshine at Deep Forest, alone. I did a perfect lap, and it was super easy - the car felt glued to the ground and on rails. It has to be one of the "easiest" Gr.3 cars. And then I saw that a league friend did a lap 2 seconds faster, in the same car, in the same lobby, BoP and no tuning... What...

Then I told him I'd try to follow him for as long as I can before he shakes me off. Damn. I held on for 5-6 laps and managed to close down on his best lap until I was 0,071 s behind. I almost crashed several times, and so did he. There was sliding into corners, mid corner and out of corners. Finally I just ran out of focus, made more and more mistakes, and lost him. There was clearly a lot of time to gain after my "perfect" lap where I felt like a world champion in an "easy" car.

So yeah... Drive faster. It's fun! It's racing!

Can't that be said about anything though? Regardless of physics, there will always be someone who can push the car round the track faster than you - and doing so is going to be very hard. I could boot up a Need for Speed game which, as you know, is designed to be fairly easy to drive fast, but I bet trying to get a world top time is still very hard.

So you know, it is somewhat relative. If you can shave a second off your best laptime after just a few laps with the new update then it is objectively easier to drive, for yourself at least. Interestingly though, I haven't really seen anyone here comparing their best lap times pre and post patch.

 

[Techlet]

Have you tried linking sources in the first place so we don’t have to find them for you?

Edit: and the video explains how cars react in GT7 how again? Understeer as a preference for performance? Ok gotcha, watch a video and think you know it all

Would be better if you read what you linked in the first place.

Confidence, that’s the payoff. It is invaluable to the driver. The outstanding benefit of understeer. Confidence comes from knowing what to expect. From being able to control what’s next. A little understeer keeps the tail in line when going deep, deep, deep into the brake zone to take the lead. A little understeer makes it much easier to keep the car on the absolute limit of traction and fill the friction circle as you blend straight hard braking into 1.5g cornering.

Early throttle is why many amateur track cars I drive end up with too much oversteer. See what I mean here? Regular Joe often finishes braking early, and next, naturally, goes to the power early, taking load off the front early, creating understeer. So, Regular Joe stiffens the rear swaybar to eliminate that mid-corner understeer. If a chassis is set up to be perfectly balanced with early acceleration – a very common mistake – it will likely be too loose everywhere else.

An ideal setup will have enough understeer for the confidence-inspiring stability that every driver needs to go really fast.

Sounds like exactly what people are finding out about their driving style post patch.

How does this have relevance to GT7 physics? What he's described as not ideal in both that article and in the video are how most cars behaved before the patch. That's now been corrected.

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

Can't that be said about anything though? Regardless of physics, there will always be someone who can push the car round the track faster than you - and doing so is going to be very hard. I could boot up a Need for Speed game which, as you know, is designed to be fairly easy to drive fast, but I bet trying to get a world top time is still very hard.

So you know, it is somewhat relative. If you can shave a second off your best laptime after just a few laps with the new update then it is objectively easier to drive, for yourself at least. Interestingly though, I haven't really seen anyone here comparing their best lap times pre and post patch.

That's how I view it, as a game with certain mechanics, doesn't matter if it's real life or not. NFS mechanics are way too simple though - it becomes a shallow competition of reaction times, which is not very entertaining long term. In all sports, which are for entertainment, I guess there has to be a sweet spot in mechanics difficulty to strike for the sport to be successful.

They could probably build a racing league IRL with rules and electronics that make the racing look like NFS. The technology is there. But nobody would watch it.

For me, GT7 has nice mechanics. I just want better systems and interfaces for online racing.

 

[Johnnn]

And notice for gamepad users we have steering sensitivity until 10 now. I am not sure if it's better, but I had always maximum value. Maybe we have faster steering rate now? Or just better settings? Maybe they changed linearity of steering too? I play too many games to know exactly, I can drive anything.

 

[LSFDRX]

Just tried the F8 Tributo at the sardegna road 800. RH tires. In other cars after 1.13, you can't get the rear to step out in a fast corner, no matter how much you steer or give throttle. Opposite to that, the F8 is uncontrollable on the back 'curved' straight. I have good car control normally, so the oversteer is really bad. If they wanted to fix the MR cars behavior, it seems they made it worse for some cases.

For people that want to try, I upgraded the car to 800pp, no setup on the racing suspension.

These types of posts do nothing to help anything. Blanket statements like "this car is uncontrollable" or "all cars do this" means nothing, because it couldn't be farther from the truth.

What's "fast corner"? The final corner at Tsukuba is "fast" and I can get pretty much any car to slip in the rear there. Final turn at Deep forest, same thing, it actually used to be a burden to come through that compression zone, and still can be if you're not lined up correctly.

The F8 is not "undrivable" by any stretch of anything. Plenty of us have many miles on our very own virtual F8s and like them. I never use assists, so you can't try and blame anything on them saving me or anyone else.

If you're talking about the very fast right-hand kink with the run off on the left then yeah, that's an easy corner to get loose in at speed. But my tuned E90 M3 can slip there as well, and that thing is PLANTED. You also say you "tuned" your F8, so who knows what you did to it, and how that effected its ability to keep the tires planted.

And just like all the other car in game at the moment, the F8 got easier to drive. It was worse before. But by NO MEANS is it "impossible" to drive. It's actually a super fun and balanced car.

 

[fmq75]

Yeah I do wish it was easier to visually tell how wet a part of the track is in the game without relying on the little moisture meter. It's near impossible to see the puddles.

If you drive bumper (like i do) you don‘t even see raindrops most of the time and you notice the beginning of rain only by ears.GT7 has the worst and most boring wet/rain effects that i‘ve seen for many years.Sad thing is,it was far more fun in the beginning but they patched it out

And then there is GT5…

 

[sejtur]

These types of posts do nothing to help anything. Blanket statements like "this car is uncontrollable" or "all cars do this" means nothing, because it couldn't be farther from the truth.

What's "fast corner"? The final corner at Tsukuba is "fast" and I can get pretty much any car to slip in the rear there. Final turn at Deep forest, same thing, it actually used to be a burden to come through that compression zone, and still can be if you're not lined up correctly.

The F8 is not "undrivable" by any stretch of anything. Plenty of us have many miles on our very own virtual F8s and like them. I never use assists, so you can't try and blame anything on them saving me or anyone else.

If you're talking about the very fast right-hand kink with the run off on the left then yeah, that's an easy corner to get loose in at speed. But my tuned E90 M3 can slip there as well, and that thing is PLANTED. You also say you "tuned" your F8, so who knows what you did to it, and how that effected its ability to keep the tires planted.

And just like all the other car in game at the moment, the F8 got easier to drive. It was worse before. But by NO MEANS is it "impossible" to drive. It's actually a super fun and balanced car.

Fast corners that I'm talking about are the long and fast right hander at Fuji, or the esses in the latter part of Le Mans.

With the F8, I'm talking about the full throttle piece of road between turn 6 and turn 9, and I spun between turn 7 and 8.
Map: https://gt-engine.com/gt7/tracks/images/sm/sardegna-road-a.png

Things I changed on the F8 Tributo (RH tires):
Fully customisable suspension, unchanged.
Downforce 250, 300
Ballast 2kg, position 0
Medium RPM Turbo
Racing intercooler
Racing air cleaner
Racing silencer
Racing manifold
Slotted brake discs

The rest is all stock. PP is 799.72.

I'm curious what your findings will be, and how you find it to drive on that part of Sardegna.

 

[RedRockValley]

GT7's dirt physics after the new update are just... confusing.

I can never tell when the car wants to grip or not, it's boggling my mind and I've had many hours across many rally games, from simcade to sim...

They were bad before, now they're a bit improved (very little though) but I feel that's actually made me worse with GT7's dirt events.

 

[extreme car]

Then I told him I'd try to follow him for as long as I can before he shakes me off. Damn. I held on for 5-6 laps and managed to close down on his best lap until I was 0,071 s behind. I almost crashed several times, and so did he. There was sliding into corners, mid corner and out of corners. Finally I just ran out of focus, made more and more mistakes, and lost him. There was clearly a lot of time to gain after my "perfect" lap where I felt like a world champion in an "easy" car.

So yeah... Drive faster. It's fun! It's racing!

I don't follow nor do I care GT racing too much so I don't really know how the car should react on corner with a really poor driving and TCS off, but have you tried golding the NSX Gr.2 sector 1 at suzuka CE? the only time I spun out was when i hit the 2nd corner curb wrong, the rest of the corner you just have to steer and mash the throttle and the car stick like it's on rail almost impossible to spin the car even with bad steering and throttle, is this the correct behaviour for a super GT car? If it is then I'm happy they tweaked the physics to this degree because I don't really race Gr. cars in GT7, I did it to farm credits.

EDIT: couldn't find any on board video of the said nsx with my little time researching but found this video where the NSX did a full lap while racing other super GT cars for reference. still have to account the tyre wear and temp IRL cause he was racing other cars.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I don't understand why people are saying that the physics are "too easy" now. So what, you were happy with cars that broke traction too quickly? You were honestly satisfied with how certain cars behaved? You're having a laugh if this is the case. If you've played Assetto Corsa, you will come to realise that GT7's physics are right where they need to be. Easy for the most part but challenging on the absolute limit. What we had before was too hard and required overly-cautious driving that didn't indicate the car's true performance.

 

[GTboyz]

GT7's dirt physics after the new update are just... confusing.

I can never tell when the car wants to grip or not, it's boggling my mind and I've had many hours across many rally games, from simcade to sim...

They were bad before, now they're a bit improved (very little though) but I feel that's actually made me worse with GT7's dirt events.

I feel like it's a lot easier to land after jumps though. But for the most part it felt changed just a bit. I grind a LOT in Sardegna before the patch and I tried it yesterday. The cars felt more planted, I don't know if that's more realistic or not but it felt great to me.

 

[LSFDRX]

Fast corners that I'm talking about are the long and fast right hander at Fuji, or the esses in the latter part of Le Mans.

With the F8, I'm talking about the full throttle piece of road between turn 6 and turn 9, and I spun between turn 7 and 8.
Map: https://gt-engine.com/gt7/tracks/images/sm/sardegna-road-a.png

Things I changed on the F8 Tributo (RH tires):
Fully customisable suspension, unchanged.
Downforce 250, 300
Ballast 2kg, position 0
Medium RPM Turbo
Racing intercooler
Racing air cleaner
Racing silencer
Racing manifold
Slotted brake discs

The rest is all stock. PP is 799.72.

I'm curious what your findings will be, and how you find it to drive on that part of Sardegna.

I'll give it a shot when I get back to the game, but now I'm going to have to dump a bunch of money on modifying my pretty stock F8? lol

Is that 200kg position 0, or an actual 2kg? Ha ha.

I'll try it with your set up, then tweak it to see if I can make it hunker down a bit more.

 

[Td04]

What on earth does that mean? 😂

I explained so bad and maybe Is not correct, but i mean: if we take a gr with a turbo engine,i think its easier to brake traction when we have a lot of torque. Gr carst gearbox Is long and keep the the car at high rpm where there is more power but less torque.
For example in the new brz gt 300 i can brake traction at 80km/h on second gear, but i can't no more at 120-130 km/h. Third gear start to be very long and the speed Is high so i guess is correct don't have strong oversteer ,but more understeer,there.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

Was racing Seaside in lobbies yesterday with the 650s on softs. It’s basically impossible to spin out now. The car was always the best of the gr3 for handling but as the worse cars have scaled up so have the best. The right hairpin before the chicane I can go full lock and full throttle in 2nd gear. Feels kind of weird even trying it. The only issue I’m having now is running out of road with understeer.
The game has changed from a who’s the best at throttle modulation simulator to who’s the best at timing when to mash the throttle simulator. All about exit lines now.
I guess a bit of both would be the optimal approach. The game is a lot less stressful now. The treading on eggshells at every corner, while rewarding was exhausting. And spinning out pretty often got a bit frustrating. The new physics will see all the straight line cars rise to the top I imagine now as they aren’t really crippled by handling anymore.

 

[Tenacious D]

I haven't been using TCS, and only ABS weak. While it isn't an actual Gr4 race car, my F430 feels really solid and sure footed on racing hards. But, it will still spin out if I'm not careful. The Ford GT '18 Gr3 however is a wild stallion. I had to spend some time tuning that thing, and still needed to adjust to its tendency to lose it. I won the WTC800 Dragon Trail race with it, but it took a few tries. The darn bots seem to delight in making it spin out, and it so not fun going from low sun glare to dark gloom within ten laps. It also politely slid right off the track in the last lap at less than 60mph, which might have been due to a cold track, but who knows. I hate those 40 minute days...

 

[CTRL Garage]

Sounds like exactly what people are finding out about their driving style post patch.

How does this have relevance to GT7 physics? What he's described as not ideal in both that article and in the video are how most cars behaved before the patch. That's now been corrected.

Yet pre patch is exact how the senna he drove is described, even on the bit where the slow speed corners the car is sketchy… yet now at 1.13 super cars or any cars that require high speed downforce are “on rails” no matter what speed and corner.

Right now you don’t even drive as Randy Pobst describes in the SCCA article I linked, take a Gr3 car on a track and try spin it, it’s got soo much rear end grip now you can turn and mash the throttle down

 

[Techlet]

Nice edit by the way. But I'll leave this here anyway.

lol players were not driving like Senna drove prepatch. Just in this thread people have brought up the video of him in the NSX at Suzuka and how if you tried to do that in the game you just instantly spin. Everyone agreed that to go fast prepatch you had to be extremely smooth and precise on the throttle and steering. Too smooth to be actually realistic because even a little extra input will upset the car.

What we observed with Senna's driving style was exactly that, how Senna drove, not the cars' natural tendency to just slide. That's why his driving style stood out. That's the opposite of what was happening in GT7 where it was the cars being extremely twitchy and unpredictable. In fact, you'd have a great deal more success trying to drive like Senna after the patch.

If you want to trot out names, then fairly accomplished drivers like Alonso and Vettel both prefer more stable cars that leaned towards understeer when pushed.

Then again, there's also this pseudo analysis, which I'm sure you don't agree with or you wouldn't have brought Senna up.

 

[CTRL Garage]

lol players were not driving like Senna drove prepatch. Just in this thread people have brought up the video of him in the NSX at Suzuka and how if you tried to do that in the game you just instantly spin. Everyone agreed that to go fast prepatch you had to be extremely smooth and precise on the throttle and steering. Too smooth to be actually realistic because even a little extra input will upset the car.

In fact, you'd have a great deal more success trying to drive like Senna after the patch.

If you want to trot out names, then fairly accomplished drivers like Alonso and Vettel both prefer more stable cars that leaned towards understeer when pushed.

Then again, there's also this pseudo analysis, which I'm sure you don't agree with or you wouldn't have brought Senna up.

Not Senna the driver, McLarens Senna you posted a video of… did you even watch it…

Talk about moving goal posts and now with your edit the mental gymnastics

 

[DjeeDjee]

That’s the GT300 BRZ that was added in the latest update at Fuji. Super GT has no TC but it has an open tyre war. I’m guessing the tyres used for qualifying would at least be as good as Softs in GT7 or even slightly better.

I’m mostly interested in the exit to the main straight(1:20 and 3:10). Unfortunaly there is no telemetry but it looks to me like the drivers are at full throttle even before the apex. Are people underestimating how much grip modern racecars have?

You forgot one very important point here mate, the car setup.

You generally can't tune your car on the different GTWS rounds as it's specified and for example, the default LSD are very very poorly set up. So comparing a real GT300 with a fine tune that is miles away from the default one applied by PoDi on his Gr.3 cars is irrelevant IMO.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Same category but two different philosophies. The Supra is the better car because it is more maneuverable and less of a dog compared to the GT-R, which tends to scrub the front tyres a lot more. The extra weight does compromise overall driveability. I did this test with fuel and tyre wear set to x1 because I think it enriches the experience considerably. Having this option is an absolute god send because you no longer need to create a lobby or do a career mode race to do it!

 

[Goshin2568]

To be honest I don't really understand the relevancy of all this discussion about whether racing drivers prefer understeer or oversteer. Those are setup issues, not physics issues. The physics issues with racecars is that it is functionally impossible to make them oversteer under their own power. How can you even have a preference for one or the other when one of them isn't even possible?


I have absolutely zero problem with racecars in game being biased towards understeer. But it shouldn't take 15 seconds of sawing the wheel back and forth and flooring the throttle in order to break traction on the rear wheels.


*Disclaimer before people who haven't read my previous posts start jumping down my throat: I like the new physics overall. Road cars are great now. Race cars are better, but they've gone a bit too far with the rear grip in a way that is both unrealistic and less enjoyable.

 

[CarreraGT]

I explained so bad and maybe Is not correct, but i mean: if we take a gr with a turbo engine,i think its easier to brake traction when we have a lot of torque. Gr carst gearbox Is long and keep the the car at high rpm where there is more power but less torque.
For example in the new brz gt 300 i can brake traction at 80km/h on second gear, but i can't no more at 120-130 km/h. Third gear start to be very long and the speed Is high so i guess is correct don't have strong oversteer ,but more understeer,there.

Haha you've completely lost me. Might help if you proof read before you hit send.

Short gearing would keep a car at high rpm more often, not tall (long) gearing.

I think I know what you're trying to say. Maybe...

 

[Veinz]

I wouldn’t get hung up on the current physics, they will be working on this for years. To me they are fine right now, but they could always improve.

I think most of my issues stem from using a G29, my dualsense controller with stick drift gives me more sensations than my wheel does.

 

[MarrGuitar]

Yet pre patch is exact how the senna he drove is described, even on the bit where the slow speed corners the car is sketchy… yet now at 1.13 super cars or any cars that require high speed downforce are “on rails” no matter what speed and corner.

This just isn’t true. In the R8 LMS Evo, I was losing the rear at Suzuka’s tight hairpin if I wasn’t balancing the throttle and steering correctly, and the 458 GT3 I took round there had quite a lot of lift-off oversteer in the S bends.

 

[MarrGuitar]

You forgot one very important point here mate, the car setup.

You generally can't tune your car on the different GTWS rounds as it's specified and for example, the default LSD are very very poorly set up. So comparing a real GT300 with a fine tune that is miles away from the default one applied by PoDi on his Gr.3 cars is irrelevant IMO.

This is getting hilarious. No matter what evidence anybody gives for how race cars actually handle irl, you find a way to discredit their point and continue to disagree with them because you are dead-set on believing the previous physics were right. There’s no point discussing anything with you because you always find a way to discredit every other point of view. Even David Perel’s insight isn’t good enough for you.

 

[Skython]

I'm personally really enjoying the new physics, it's breathed a whole new life to the game. I just bought the Jaguar D-Type and had an amazing time driving at Goodwood, slightly sideways and smiling. Before the patch I have no doubt the car would have been twitchy and nerve wracking, but now (along with just about all the road cars I've tested) it is fun, satisfying and still challenging enough.

Though I won't ignore what people are saying here, that the race cars have too much grip and a strange tendency to understeer. I wonder what it is in the physics that makes the race cars grip far too much. I tested my CLK LM on race hards and then sports softs, and even on sports tires it had almost unbreakable grip which I found interesting. It's like there are artificial markers imposed on race cars to have more grip beyond the normal things that would make them have more grip (like aero and altered suspension and the like).

I think for now the excess of grip in race cars could be there to mask the flaws in the physics engine for faster cars which could be caused by the new physics update. It must be really hard to find the right balance in a physics engine so that such a wide variety of cars can handle in a somewhat believable manner. Maybe sometime in the coming weeks we'll see an update where they've fixed the physics for race cars but without spoiling the great nature of road cars that they brought in with the new patch, but who knows? Clearly PD do actually listen, so I'll keep the faith.

 

[kartman21]

I think there is a huge gap between people playing with a wheel and the other playing with a controller, the last update seems to improve the way the cars acts with a controller for the best, but with a wheel it's a mixed feeling

I'm not professional driver, I've limited experience on trackday, but what I know for sure, it's before the last update with my wheel the game was challenging and giving me a lot of information (maybe too difficult, OK), but now, it feels dead
I think the mains complains now are from wheels users

I wish they add two separate mode