Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[Voodoovaj]

Is anyone noticing more understeer? A few times since the update, I enter a corner and I push WAY wide. It's especially bad under braking. I'm using the controller.

 

[Tommy_D]

Is anyone noticing more understeer? A few times since the update, I enter a corner and I push WAY wide. It's especially bad under braking. I'm using the controller.

I've noticed that I can't feel the front end through a turn any more. PD turned down the FFB on the T300RS wheels and lowered the amount of rumble you get when the tires are scrubbing through the turns. So, tires scrubbing and tires completely losing grip feel the exact same now through turns. I find myself understeering through turns more often because I don't know what the limits of the grip are. Thanks, PD!

 

[newmedia_dev]

FFB is just one way to understand what the car is doing there is also visually what you see vs what inputs you are doing and also audio queues.

The FFB isnt great again but you can use other indicators to help control things like over and understeer or locking up etc.

 

[Kriptical]

Love ya man. But i’m a firm believer that if your eyes are telling you somethings wrong..its too late …and you either need a heck of an emergency save, or your binning the car(irl). Thats no way to sim

 

[newmedia_dev]

Love ya man. But i’m a firm believer that if your eyes are telling you somethings wrong..its too late …and you either need a heck of an emergency save, or your binning the car(irl). Thats no way to sim

if that was at me, here is a fun experiment turn your FFB right down and mute the sounds and then just anticipate and control the car moving, you'll soon quickly start to vget visual queues on when to accelerate, what going too early looks like you can literally see you are going to run wide if you keep trying to power....so stop?

another fun one is to keep the FFB dialled all the way down but enhance tire and engine noise to max couple that with what you've learned to do with judging when to accelerate you'll find that FFB is an additive experience but the game and controller users without FFB and even people like myself who think the FFB is poor but is better than nothing will absolutely concede that FFB settings are not responsible for under or oversteer on its own.

 

[hawkeyez]

If things were optimized for the wheel users, the controller users (like me, dexterity issues) suffer. If things were optimized for the controller users, the wheel users suffer.
This is one time I dislike the disparity, it is not fair that anyone has to have a poor time of it.
I believe that the group of programmers that have the responsibility of the physics package are trying to find a middle ground whereas it's not numb in the controller aspect and will be lively too with wheel drivers.

I think they would be able to find a good balance. Controller users can save things a lot easier because you can go full lock to full lock faster. On a wheel when it starts going on you, it’s harder to save. Hence why you see controller users practically fishtailing out of a corner both ways while accelerating away from you. They’re able to catch that stuff quicker.

Also these updates depend on what car you’re driving. I’ve had cars get better and some get worse. The 1.55, all my Fairlady Z 432’s were hell to drive, now into 1.56 they’re better but nowhere near where I had them.

I think they need to just leave the game alone. We’re three years into it and they’re still mucking around with it? Save it for the next game please. I may or may not buy GT8 when it comes out because I’m sick of the constant changes in physics. Sim racing is about getting used of what you’re feeling. Good or bad. You do get used of it. They’re chasing their tail now.

 

[Kriptical]

if that was at me, here is a fun experiment turn your FFB right down and mute the sounds and then just anticipate and control the car moving, you'll soon quickly start to vget visual queues on when to accelerate, what going too early looks like you can literally see you are going to run wide if you keep trying to power....so stop?

another fun one is to keep the FFB dialled all the way down but enhance tire and engine noise to max couple that with what you've learned to do with judging when to accelerate you'll find that FFB is an additive experience but the game and controller users without FFB and even people like myself who think the FFB is poor but is better than nothing will absolutely concede that FFB settings are not responsible for under or oversteer on its own.

Ya. Sorry. Just kinda fired it off…but you knew! .

To the point. Sure you can game the game.

But when it comes to that, I just go out for a drive.

The idea of spending all of this money on a rig etc ,..and then being relegated to etch-a-sketch driving seems ludicrous. I appreciate the good intention of your advice and always find it interesting. But the joy of driving, personally, is to feel the weight of the car and flinging the momentum through corners and elevation changes, as well as riding the edge of grip with both wheel and accelerator. None of these things are really possible in this new iteration. Well, not in any way which dovetails with my driving muscle memory making it not fun. Also, the game teaching me to scrub my tires seems to make me do the same irl…its a nominal amount but annoying nonetheless.

Deep down I don’t care about the car over or understeering, I care about not feeling it. Same with the brakes. People love or hate 1.49, but the braking and grip was pretty sweet. Pair that with the ffb of 1.55(with an adjustment for the DD Pro Only!!) and the game would be visceral and fun. Honestly, the online racing would be better as well because people could actually feel what the car was doing and respond accordingly. The whole visual thing will always be slower compared to ffb. Heck, if the ffb’s good usually the vibrations just kinda make my hands and feet do stuff and barely bother informing my brain whats going on until its over. Which is as it should be. And could be. But for some reason, they don’t want it to be. And thats frustrating and perplexing from a game which claims to be the driving simulator and foster and perpetuate car culture.

PS: I responded to you, but of course this post is directed at PD and Sony, not you bud. Always appreciate your helpfulness and a desire to help people fix their problems.

 

[sonnyboychris]

I think they need to just leave the game alone. We’re three years into it and they’re still mucking around with it? Save it for the next game please. I may or may not buy GT8 when it comes out because I’m sick of the constant changes in physics. Sim racing is about getting used of what you’re feeling. Good or bad. You do get used of it. They’re chasing their tail now.

I'm torn, I'm sick off all the changes too but they've ruined this game a few times already, why stop now? Iron the bugs out and hopefully they land on something good for GT8.

I'm definitely not buying GT8 at launch and I wish more people would take that stance. I'm not listening to IGN, GTPlanet, Game<insert publication here>.... They'll spend two hours with the game and slap a 9/10 on it, just for PD to pull the ol'switcharoo on us again...

I'll give it a month or two before buying it and let the dust settle. I might even wait until a couple of updates drop, just to get an idea of what direction they're headed in. As consumers we have to stop rewarding undesirable behavior.

 

[mynameis66]

I'm torn, I'm sick off all the changes too but they've ruined this game a few times already, why stop now? Iron the bugs out and hopefully they land on something good for GT8.

I'm definitely not buying GT8 at launch and I wish more people would take that stance. I'm not listening to IGN, GTPlanet, Game<insert publication here>.... They'll spend two hours with the game and slap a 9/10 on it, just for PD to pull the ol'switcharoo on us again...

I'll give it a month or two before buying it and let the dust settle. I might even wait until a couple of updates drop, just to get an idea of what direction they're headed in. As consumers we have to stop rewarding undesirable behavior.

You will have a long wait for GT8,not sure what the ol`switcheroo is or was,but whatever makes you happy. 👍

 

[sonnyboychris]

You will have a long wait for GT8,not sure what the ol`switcheroo is or was,but whatever makes you happy. 👍

I'm not anticipating GT8's release, that was in response to the quoted user.

I'm referring to how Polyphony Digital intentionally withheld information from reviewers and changed the game economy after the game was released to consumers, results in GT7 receiving the lowest consumer metacritic score in history.

 

[mynameis66]

@sonnyboychris 👍

 

[hawkeyez]

I'm torn, I'm sick off all the changes too but they've ruined this game a few times already, why stop now? Iron the bugs out and hopefully they land on something good for GT8.

I'm definitely not buying GT8 at launch and I wish more people would take that stance. I'm not listening to IGN, GTPlanet, Game<insert publication here>.... They'll spend two hours with the game and slap a 9/10 on it, just for PD to pull the ol'switcharoo on us again...

I'll give it a month or two before buying it and let the dust settle. I might even wait until a couple of updates drop, just to get an idea of what direction they're headed in. As consumers we have to stop rewarding undesirable behavior.

Why would you spend so much time on a game after it’s released if it was done in the first place? Why would you continue working on it if you had released it in its complete form?

We are the Guinea pigs. Do they get money if we keep playing but not buying credits with our own money? And if so, how does that work that they get paid if I boot up my system and open GT7?

Ehhh people do it to themselves, everybody is all about updates to games now. There hasn’t been an update for awhile. The car and track updates are good, but only because it was actually lacking from the start.

 

[newmedia_dev]

i've bought every game for the last 25 years, everyone one of them. not one of them is perfect wether they get updates or not.

expectation management and money vs time vs value is the equation we all need to do.

sometimes you can't let perfect get in the way of good and the game holistically is good, it is not perfect and could do with enhancements across the board, progression, race formats, wheel feedback etc

but it's not some sort of massive travesty either and sometimes a game can't be all things to all people.

i will buy the next one fully knowing that we live in an era/time now where games aren't shipped feature complete or "done" but they also aren't as delayed as they used to be they also typically aren't broken for eternity. A lot of people forget or just didn't know there is an early GT game that some regions can't actually complete 100% because it was broken from day one and no patches back then.

 

[sonnyboychris]

sometimes you can't let perfect get in the way of good and the game holistically is good, it is not perfect and could do with enhancements across the board, progression, race formats, wheel feedback etc

Let's not misrepresent what I'm saying. Nobody here is asking for perfection... A desire for GT7's core mechanics to be COMPLETED is not an unreasonable ask of perfection. Some parts of the game have been broken for 6+ years at this point. Other parts of the game have regressed since GT Sport.

That is NOT asking for perfection. That is not unreasonable. The fact that many of us have purchased the game through multiple iterations shows that we're doing exactly what you've stated. But at some point (for some) enough is enough. Companies listen to dollar amounts... Crying on this forum won't get their attention, we all know that lol.

When GT7's ranking tanked, PD responded IMMEDIATELY. Why? Cus it was putting the earning potential of their game in jeopardy and they had nobody to blame but themselves. Clearly making your voice heard with your wallet is the way to reach them.

 

[newmedia_dev]

Let's not misrepresent what I'm saying. Nobody here is asking for perfection... A desire for gaming mechanics to be COMPLETED is not an unreasonable ask of perfection. Some parts of the game have been broken for 6+ years at this point. Other parts of the game have regressed since GT Sport.

Let's be very clear then, that "in your opinion" the game mechanics aren't complete.

Now let's also not forget that on average 150k+ people regularly do the Sport mode TT with a good spread of gold, silver and bronze placing.

Sport mode leaderboards definitely have a very big spread from the fastest to the slowest and i know in both of those modes that there is a mix of controller and wheel users at the sharp end of the leaderboards.

What does this tell us? That the physics work en mass, that a large proportion of players can drive the cars consistently and quickly.

This also tells us that a lot of people either don't feel the nuances or just don't care.

To be clear nobody is miss contextualising or misrepresenting what you are saying just adding a broader view of data than opinion.

That is NOT asking for perfection. That is not unreasonable. The fact that many of us have purchased the game through multiple iterations shows that we're doing exactly what you've stated. But at some point (for some) enough is enough. Companies listen to dollar amounts... Crying on this forum won't get their attention, we all know that lol.

agreed but it's nice to vent to people who get it. no qualms there at all.

just personally i have a different set of expectation in this new world of live service crap.

When GT7's ranking tanked, PD responded IMMEDIATELY. Why? Cus it was putting the earning potential of their game in jeopardy and they had nobody to blame but themselves. Clearly making your voice heard with your wallet is the way to reach them.

That was very specifically around MTX and a slightly slower game economy.

I remember it well, and ultimately it was very much a populous reddit type movement at the time.

MTX haven't affected my life one bit, the slow economy at least in early game play is a bit meh but not the worst gouging of players cough activation, ea cough

and let's be candid they didn't actually change much the 3 main grind races are still the main grind races for those players, the players that wanted all the pokecars quickly have long since moved on and a 3 years down the line it's fair to say those still here are vested for more than credits and ultimate FFB feel.

 

[Revengel]

I'm not anticipating GT8's release, that was in response to the quoted user.

I'm referring to how Polyphony Digital intentionally withheld information from reviewers and changed the game economy after the game was released to consumers, results in GT7 receiving the lowest consumer metacritic score in history.

When GT7's ranking tanked, PD responded IMMEDIATELY. Why? Cus it was putting the earning potential of their game in jeopardy and they had nobody to blame but themselves. Clearly making your voice heard with your wallet is the way to reach them.

I would say it was a Sony decision rather than PD. Sony has pushed microtransactions everywhere; PD was able to push back once the review bombing hit. Granted, that's my take . . . but I get your point.

i've bought every game for the last 25 years, everyone one of them. not one of them is perfect wether they get updates or not.

I feel seen. 'Cept I've been on Gran Turismo since 1997, but the principle is identical.

expectation management and money vs time vs value is the equation we all need to do.

sometimes you can't let perfect get in the way of good and the game holistically is good, it is not perfect and could do with enhancements across the board, progression, race formats, wheel feedback etc

I enthusiastically agree. None of these are perfect; I take the position of adapting but that's my personal choice. Anyone is free to disagree with what PD (or any game developer) has put out.

but it's not some sort of massive travesty either and sometimes a game can't be all things to all people.

THIS.

However, I have to acknowledge this fair and correct point below:

Let's not misrepresent what I'm saying. Nobody here is asking for perfection... A desire for GT7's core mechanics to be COMPLETED is not an unreasonable ask of perfection. Some parts of the game have been broken for 6+ years at this point. Other parts of the game have regressed since GT Sport.

Zero lies detected.

I do have a different take on core mechanics being completed. Upon release, they were complete . . . however they were not what players/drivers/consumers preferred. PD has made adjustments based both on internal testing and feedback from testers/public/etc.

That is NOT asking for perfection. That is not unreasonable. The fact that many of us have purchased the game through multiple iterations shows that we're doing exactly what you've stated. But at some point (for some) enough is enough. Companies listen to dollar amounts... Crying on this forum won't get their attention, we all know that lol.

That is spot on - for some the way any game is becomes more than it's worth. While I dearly love this game I recognize I am not the Lorax and don't speak for the trees.

When we can discuss differences in opinion without getting all hot under the collar, it's a win-win scenario.

I think we have that in many places in this string.



Including this one.

 

[symaski62]

hi gran turismo 7 simulator wind test civic typer r (ek) touring car ^^

ps4

View attachment 1428739

UPDATE 2 error 258km/h to 238km/h

test simulator ps4

😎

 

[Tired Tyres]

Having spent a few hours with the 1.56 patch I can say that the physics feel so dumbed down compared to 1.49 it's insane. It feels like I have ABS Default, TCS and CSA on at all times. Just understeer everywhere, barely any slip angle to work with, barely any trail braking, it's almost impossible to spin out etc. Sorry for being negative but it's just very dissapointing having seen what the game could've been

CSA. That's your problem right there.

 

[newmedia_dev]

CSA. That's your problem right there.

see this is the disconnect i personally don't use assist, use a wheel and pedals and whatever the ABS is set to? default?

others rock up using driver aids designed to to make you understeer or over achieve for your car control.

it's a difficult conversation to have when i use no aids and have an opinion on the handling yet others use aids which are there to mask handling characteristics (CSA is there to litterally mitigate oversteer!! that's what freaking counter steer means)

unless this thread gets back to its roots and accepts the majority are dealing with it, doing exceptionally well. it's all just pissing in the wind moaning.

and zero percent is constructive.

 

[mynameis66]

When GT7's ranking tanked, PD responded IMMEDIATELY. Why? Cus it was putting the earning potential of their game in jeopardy and they had nobody to blame but themselves. Clearly making your voice heard with your wallet is the way to reach them.

How did people vote with their wallet though?
People had already bought the game so the money was spent at that point.I dont know if people requested refunds in mass numbers,the addition of mtx was a bit poor but they werent,and still not,obtrusive or in your face pop ups.You dont need them to progress in the game.There was a big hoo haa with FM7 and their loot boxes but that i think was a tad over dramatic in the end.
Value wise,for me anyway ive had my moneys worth time over,since release ive played it consistently though not as much as the first 2 years.
Three other games i go back to on a regular basis are GTA5,RDR2 and MGS5 ,completed them 3 or 4 times each,apart from RDR2 just once,and always seem to find something new in them.Will i still find the same interest in GT7 until GT8? Who knows,a big probability though.
Sorry for the off topuc ramble.👍

 

[sonnyboychris]

How did people vote with their wallet though?

I'm saying that people should vote with their wallets in the future.

In the example I provided, it's my opinion that Sony/PD was worried about GT7's public perception and potentially losing NEW customers. So they responded extremely quickly and made changes. Basically I'm saying that, if or the lack thereof money is involved companies will care.

Trust me, I'm a pessimist by nature. I know that the majority of GT fans will preorder GT8. Just to find out on launch day that penalties in sport mode are still broken lol.

Let's be very clear then, that "in your opinion" the game mechanics aren't complete.

The fact that VR users cannot play the game fully in the manner in which it was designed to be played means that it is incomplete. That is not a matter of opinion.

 

[newmedia_dev]

I'm saying that people should vote with their wallets in the future.

you do appreciate the fallacy though?

less people pre order more people buy day one/10/30 discounts but the cost of the game was factored in way before pre orders.

economics doesn't quite work the way you think it does when you are selling a long tail product. Front loaded sales are vanity it's life time sales

Trust me, I'm a pessimist by nature. I know that the majority of GT fans will preorder GT8. Just to find out on launch day that penalties in sport mode are still broken lol.

so they get what they know? and that hasn't put them off?

you need to start to think holistically here, we get your frustrations and share some of them but there is a reality and that is the masses don't share or care about your opinion and in some cases they love it.

the game can't be all things to all people but it can be fun for most of the people most of the time.

and that is what they are aiming for. not being fan boy just being realistic and pragmatic.

 

[sonnyboychris]

the game can't be all things to all people but it can be fun for most of the people most of the time.

You're right but it should do what it was advertised to do and it's not doing that in some very fundamental ways.

 

[newmedia_dev]

You're right but it should do what it was advertised to do and it's not doing that in some very fundamental ways.

it is and it's doing it in the way they want, not what you or I want.

 

[sonnyboychris]

it is and it's doing it in the way they want, not what you or I want.

We can agree to disagree because you're choosing to ignore some key facts.

 

[Sir Crashalot]

CSA. That's your problem right there.

He wrote "It feels like....", so I suppose it's actually turned off.

 

[Tommy_D]

I say they revert back to v1.31 (aka Spec II) physics and PP ratings and stop playing with the physics ever again. The great majority of people liked the Spec II update. Most of the complaints I remember had to do with Sophy or a lack of tracks, but many, many, many people like the physics.

 

[newmedia_dev]

We can agree to disagree because you're choosing to ignore some key facts.

no i am not, im just realistic and pragmatic.

you are doubling down on a few facts that aren't facts just what you opine to be a fact but millions of people and hundreds of thousand people regularly participating in events we can track let alone those single player people which must be in the millions.

so we can disagree but we don't agree to disagree, i think what you are saying is inherently wrong and just opinion based on no facts of which i am not ignoring but you aren't laying out any facts.

so no we don't agree to disagree, you just disagree with what im saying.

 

[sonnyboychris]

I say they revert back to v1.31 (aka Spec II) physics and PP ratings and stop playing with the physics ever again. The great majority of people liked the Spec II update. Most of the complaints I remember had to do with Sophy or a lack of tracks, but many, many, many people like the physics.

That was so long ago, I don't even remember what that felt like.

 

[ZevZoq]

I say they revert back to v1.31 (aka Spec II) physics and PP ratings and stop playing with the physics ever again. The great majority of people liked the Spec II update. Most of the complaints I remember had to do with Sophy or a lack of tracks, but many, many, many people like the physics.

I love the current physics and FF on the crummy old G29 wheel. Hope they don't revert back (not that they will of course) because the recent updates have pretty much cured any little issues I had prior with the wheel.