Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[KAlex122]

About the physics change of the latest update:

It's now official: I am the most numb and insensible guy around. More than 150.000 km on the game, golded everything and so on and i can honestly say: my GT7 game didn't get a physics update. Nothing changed for me.

It took me a year to wrap my head around not being good at tuning: i just don't feel a thing.

It seems i can work with what i get but i cant feel and i can't analyse what's going on. Good to have you guys on the forum.

 

[05XR8]

Just posted about Senna in a Civic and now the algorithm adds this for me.


Wheel users should try and see if they can mimic these reactions.

 

[NickGuy]

i saw a youtube vid about the new update, it mentioned updated physics for controller users, and so I reinstalled, since my wheel is out of action right now and gt7 was previously undriveable on controller.

I gotta say the new physics are nice for controller i fell like i can actually race p well on it. unfortunately, gt7 is like 99% the same from when I last played in June 2022....still no silverstone or imola

 

[hawkeyez]

One thing I noticed was the Daytona Cobra went from being my fav car to my least fav and now it’s back to being my fav. The update before this last one the wheel was so feather light With that car and others, it was so bad, hated it.

 

[symaski62]

hi gran turismo 7 simulator wind test civic typer r (ek) touring car ^^

ps4

 

[newmedia_dev]

Oh man in Gr3 that shaft shake thing is absolutely awful on DD Pro, just grating to hear and feel.

So much improved and so much that has taken a step back :/

Here is a quick video of the noise it's making when there is wheel slip.

I'm not going to edit the driving in because I don't know how 🤣

But this was me doing sector 1 at Nurberg GP in the Gr3 McLaren 650 (in VR not that it matters)

You'll hear the rattle grating is quite loud and doesn't feel nice either. This is me adding a fraction more lock at the apex to straighten the car a little for a sharper exit angle.

Edit: watching it back around 38 seconds in is quite pronounced and brutal.

Wheel FFB 100 and game set at 6 game sensitivity 1

I knew I wasn't going crazy

 

[jrbabbitt]

I knew I wasn't going crazy

yes you are, as we all are for loving this game....

 

[newmedia_dev]

yes you are, as we all are for loving this game....

Just want to know which one of my settings, rig knowledge of the game I need to tweak to fix a PD issue?

The mind boggles sometimes.

 

[alectron010]

Just want to know which one of my settings, rig knowledge of the game I need to tweak to fix a PD issue?

The mind boggles sometimes.

You reckon the "shaft rattle" introduced in the recent update (which I have on a DD+ base without the extreme wheel, and am not a fan of - although it does communicate the tire grip behaviour slightly better...) is the same as PD's stated "unexpected noise" when "turning the wheel sharply" ??

Just wondering, as I have what I would also call "shaft rattle" appear a lot for me when driving with latest update, but also when you don't turn sharply, but when you push the front wheels over their grip limit (while carefully, i.e. not "sharply" turning the wheel in powerfully cars).
So it does communicate slightly better overall, it just feels so off/broken in FFB communication/execution that this indeed boggles the (i.e. my) mind wth PD are doing (again) - but I have a hard time seeing the 2 as the same...

 

[newmedia_dev]

You reckon the "shaft rattle" introduced in the recent update (which I have on a DD+ base without the extreme wheel, and am not a fan of - although it does communicate the tire grip behaviour slightly better...) is the same as PD's stated "unexpected noise" when "turning the wheel sharply" ??

Just wondering, as I have what I would also call "shaft rattle" appear a lot for me when driving with latest update, but also when you don't turn sharply, but when you push the front wheels over their grip limit (while carefully, i.e. not "sharply") turning the wheel in powerfully cars).
So it does communicate slightly better overall, it just feels so off/broken in FFB communication/execution that this indeed boggles the (i.e. my) mind wth PD are doing (again) - but I have a hard time seeing the 2 as the same...

It's the same thing down played in marketing speak. A little noise would be overlooked but we are talking mechanical (or pseudo mechanical with DD), you won't (will feel this on controller) as extra rumble but on a DD wheel it's not nice and mechanically (magnetically) not great.

It's a specific issue with some of the way they translate understeer ("sharp turns") which is great they recognise it but honestly you think they would test this stuff better.

Anyways off to adjust my settings and make my rig stronger etc

Edit:

Thought better of it, I'm pretty sure I "feel" more than a lot of people.

 

[PirovacBoy]

So with the next update hitting tomorrow, I just can hope that PD don't mess around with the FFB in general.
The addressed issue with the slightly too aggressive / intrusive understeer Rattle, which by the way could be easily tweaked down to a much more pleasant way by simply raising the INT as well as lowering the FEI Values on the Fanatec DD Wheelbases.
I hope they don't try to reinvent the Wheel again.
The only thing I actually can think of or what comes to my mind that should be addressed is to add some sort of more direct FFB effect on oversteer situations.
Everything else mostly feels alright.
Weight transfer as well as understeer or tire lock up are all being communicated quite informative.
Road effects like track surface or curbs and off road surfaces do all feel quite good with the right amount of impact.

It's just the oversteer / slip angle FFB Information which lacks some detail or is actually missing and absent at all.

So I have nothing but to hope that them dudes at PD know and have tested what they have implemented in the upcoming update.
Fingers crossed 🤞

 

[jrbabbitt]

Hoping the balance physics is accurate on the Unimog, i would hate to see this try to roll over if i do a turn over 30 KmPH...

 

[bliprunner]

It's the same thing down played in marketing speak. A little noise would be overlooked but we are talking mechanical (or pseudo mechanical with DD), you won't (will feel this on controller) as extra rumble but on a DD wheel it's not nice and mechanically (magnetically) not great.

It's a specific issue with some of the way they translate understeer ("sharp turns") which is great they recognise it but honestly you think they would test this stuff better.

Anyways off to adjust my settings and make my rig stronger etc

Edit:

Thought better of it, I'm pretty sure I "feel" more than a lot of people.

How's the deathrattle?

For me it's perfect now, much more subtle, gives feedback but is not jarring and excessively noisy.

I appreciate that some have different feelings through their wheel and it wasn't as aggressive or grinding. Perhaps this is to do with the resonance of different bases, wheel and rig?

Well done to PD for fixing 👏🏻 - the physics are solid now so you can stop fiddling!

 

[newmedia_dev]

How's the deathrattle?

For me it's perfect now, much more subtle, gives feedback but is not jarring and excessively noisy.

I appreciate that some have different feelings through their wheel and it wasn't as aggressive or grinding. Perhaps this is to do with the resonance of different bases, wheel and rig?

Well done to PD for fixing 👏🏻 - the physics are solid now so you can stop fiddling!

I'm at a conference today but will test when I get home tonight and feedback

 

[Nebuc72]

The FFB is much improved for sure, aggressive rumbling seems decently toned down. Still don't like the direction the physics took at all so will likely keep not playing, but it's nice they are listening to actual hardware feedback and addressing it in good time.

 

[newmedia_dev]

Did a few laps in the new cars (ignored the truck because, yeah)

Much much better, gone back a couple of revisions it feels so you have more of the torque strength feel or car feel, I prefer to control my turn and with over curb feel this is a preference thing or at least I move the feelings to another part of my experience, others prefer the noise/feedback so it's a good update around.

They haven't touched the cars FFB model, especially when then they site/state the scenario they are fixing.

All good and better than it was before, need to do some more GR3 testing but I'd imagine it's the same.

 

[Kriptical]

Well…today is disappointing.

Weight transfer has been significantly muted.

Loss of grip ffb is too subtle and smooth. Im sorry, there is chatter on dry asphalt when you go too far on a car. Unless the roads wet. It seems in gt7 its always wet.

Pretty much every part of going fast and riding the edge of grip has been toned down and the fun sucked from it.

I mean..if you going to make the dd pro weaksauce, thats fine. Arguably, that what that model is for. Accurate, yet dialed down ffb.

….but for the love of 🤬 leave the dang dd extreme alone. Logged on for 45 min today and it was such a weaksauce borefest ..after being fun and visceral yesterday .. the cars have actually homogenized a bit…im kinda speechless.

 

[hawkeyez]

• (

Well…today is disappointing.

Weight transfer has been significantly muted.

Loss of grip ffb is too subtle and smooth. Im sorry, there is chatter on dry asphalt when you go too far on a car. Unless the roads wet. It seems in gt7 its always wet.

Pretty much every part of going fast and riding the edge of grip has been toned down and the fun sucked from it.

I mean..if you going to make the dd pro weaksauce, thats fine. Arguably, that what that model is for. Accurate, yet dialed down ffb.

….but for the love of 🤬 leave the dang dd extreme alone. Logged on for 45 min today and it was such a weaksauce borefest ..after being fun and visceral yesterday .. the cars have actually homogenized a bit…im kinda speechless.

Haven’t tried it yet, but before the G Pro was light, then the update came and it was heavier but a silly tire scrub feeling, haven’t tried this last update, I hope they reduced the vibration when tires scrub, didn’t feel realistic to me, I actually thought something was wrong with my wheel every time it did it. Too extreme.

 

[Kriptical]

• (

Haven’t tried it yet, but before the G Pro was light, then the update came and it was heavier but a silly tire scrub feeling, haven’t tried this last update, I hope they reduced the vibration when tires scrub, didn’t feel realistic to me, I actually thought something was wrong with my wheel every time it did it. Too extreme.

Scrubbing tires, especially with a cranked wheel isnt supposed to feel great.

Now tire scrub feels like driving on old asphalt. Its so faint its not even worth having it in game. And thats with a ddx on ffb 7.

Im so sick on pd having 1 good month of Ffb every 6 months and then they ruin it. Whereas potentially wheel damaging violent oscillations took 6mo to address.

For the first time since psvr2’s release i have no desire to log in today.

 

[hawkeyez]

Scrubbing tires, especially with a cranked wheel isnt supposed to feel great.

Now tire scrub feels like driving on old asphalt. Its so faint its not even worth having it in game. And thats with a ddx on ffb 7.

Im so sick on pd having 1 good month of Ffb every 6 months and then they ruin it. Whereas potentially wheel damaging violent oscillations took 6mo to address.

For the first time since psvr2’s release i have no desire to log in today.

Thing is I wouldn’t have it “cranked” at all. Maybe like 30 degrees if that. But I agree, I do not think they have the FFB that great and they keep changing it. I think the biggest issue is the differences between all the cars. Going from comfort tires to racing tires used to be so different, I’d have to have three different wheel profiles with different wheels strengths to combat that. Before these last two updates, any car or most cars with comfort tires… it felt like why should I even bother having the FFB on it’s hardly noticeable.

Never touched anything on my wheel, they update to whatever the one before this update was? 1.55? (Sorry I lose track). Anyway it was now heavier and more equalized between cars and tire compounds. But that tire scrub sensation felt like a wheel clipping.

I’m looking forward to this latest update because it sounds exactly what I wanted, less dramatic tire scrubbing effect. Haha

When I was younger I locked up the front tires on my car avoiding a collision/accident and the wheel did not feel like that at all, and there wasn’t vibration like in GT7. I left blackies too, I didn’t have much steering at all and it did kind of feel like ice believe it or not. I welcome the effect, just not as jarring as it was so it sounds right up my alley.

 

[Kriptical]

Thing is I wouldn’t have it “cranked” at all. Maybe like 30 degrees if that. But I agree, I do not think they have the FFB that great and they keep changing it. I think the biggest issue is the differences between all the cars. Going from comfort tires to racing tires used to be so different, I’d have to have three different wheel profiles with different wheels strengths to combat that. Before these last two updates, any car or most cars with comfort tires… it felt like why should I even bother having the FFB on it’s hardly noticeable.

Never touched anything on my wheel, they update to whatever the one before this update was? 1.55? (Sorry I lose track). Anyway it was now heavier and more equalized between cars and tire compounds. But that tire scrub sensation felt like a wheel clipping.

I’m looking forward to this latest update because it sounds exactly what I wanted, less dramatic tire scrubbing effect. Haha

When I was younger I locked up the front tires on my car avoiding a collision/accident and the wheel did not feel like that at all, and there wasn’t vibration like in GT7. I left blackies too, I didn’t have much steering at all and it did kind of feel like ice believe it or not. I welcome the effect, just not as jarring as it was so it sounds right up my alley.

Wheels have lots of feels depending on circumstances. In that situation you stayed within the bounds of physics and kept your grip. Happens all the time. That chatter which can evolve into the more abrasive stuff happens too. Depends on the situation.

Also. Depending on speed, road surface, velocity, and gradients present, a 30 degree yank can absolutely trigger scrubbing. Moreover the vibration had a gradient. If it went brap to the degree it felt extreme…stop doing that! Because if you do it irl, your likely binning the sucker.

 

[GT7VR]

It felt really good with the GPro on 1.55. Very realistic. Hope it's not totally f#cked now. I'll do some testing..

 

[Tommy_D]

It felt really good with the GPro on 1.55. Very realistic. Hope it's not totally f#cked now. I'll do some testing..

Well, it's ****ed on the T300RS with this latest update. Looks like I'm quitting the game once again until PD fixes their mistake. Ya know, I quit the game last year for 6 months because of that 1.49 physics update. They corrected their mistake in the January update then ****ed it up again with this one. Just STOP PD!!!!

P.S. Mods, I'm not bypassing the swear filter this time. I didn't even know there was a swear filter so I intentionally filtered my swearing as a courtesy to others. But now it's full on ****, ****, ****ity, ****.

 

[newmedia_dev]

Wheels have lots of feels depending on circumstances. In that situation you stayed within the bounds of physics and kept your grip. Happens all the time. That chatter which can evolve into the more abrasive stuff happens too. Depends on the situation.

Also. Depending on speed, road surface, velocity, and gradients present, a 30 degree yank can absolutely trigger scrubbing. Moreover the vibration had a gradient. If it went brap to the degree it felt extreme…stop doing that! Because if you do it irl, your likely binning the sucker.

This is a really weird one because I think we are all right, yet wrong/disagree at the same time.

Every car I've owned has had power steering except the 3 205gtis I had. Not one any of the 27 cars I've owned (mostly hot or performance cars) have had over aggressive judder when over turning the wheel and inducing understeer (mostly deliberately)

Any time front or back loses traction there has always been a lightening sensation because the tire has lost grip so the mass moves with little friction. Take a donut or drifting you don't get a weird judder on the throttle?

That said I feel like we still aren't quite there yet feel wise to suit all tastes, the changes seem squarely at fixing the the oscillation calculation for front end slip which has worked mostly but for some I can feel that seems like a regression.

 

[Nebuc72]

Well, it's ****ed on the T300RS with this latest update. Looks like I'm quitting the game once again until PD fixes their mistake. Ya know, I quit the game last year for 6 months because of that 1.49 physics update. They corrected their mistake in the January update then ****ed it up again with this one. Just STOP PD!!!!

P.S. Mods, I'm not bypassing the swear filter this time. I didn't even know there was a swear filter so I intentionally filtered my swearing as a courtesy to others. But now it's full on *, *, *ity, *.

Sorry, but this is all really funny considering your forum signature.

 

[hawkeyez]

Wheels have lots of feels depending on circumstances. In that situation you stayed within the bounds of physics and kept your grip. Happens all the time. That chatter which can evolve into the more abrasive stuff happens too. Depends on the situation.

Also. Depending on speed, road surface, velocity, and gradients present, a 30 degree yank can absolutely trigger scrubbing. Moreover the vibration had a gradient. If it went brap to the degree it felt extreme…stop doing that! Because if you do it irl, your likely binning the sucker.

I did not stay within the bounds of grip. Haha.

I was stopping from 60mph, I left two super long blackies avoiding a semi that decided it needed an exit ramp at the very very last second, they signalled for a split second and took that lane. I had to brake like a madman, and try to veer out of the way because I was beside them when they made their decision.

The wheel in my car didn’t vibrate hardly at all, no power steering either in that car, MacPherson Strut… it simply went very light! Lots of tire squealing.

As for GT7, I don’t think it was accurate, I’d be cruising around a corner, mid turn, everything is fine, suddenly brap, brrrr until you lift throttle and countersteer. It felt like an on off switch. Idk maybe it’s just me but I don’t think it’s a realistic feeling at all. I didn’t feel any gradient, anything I experienced was bang its on. I drive fairly smooth imo too.

 

[Tommy_D]

Sorry, but this is all really funny considering your forum signature.

And I really wish I didn't have to complain about the game. Honestly, I hate how people complain that the game is too easy, or its too hard, or that it doesn't have a good single player story line. It's annoying to read about people constantly complaining about the game, but PD is doing this to themselves.

There was no reason to change the FFB settings for the T300RS but they did. No one was complaining about the feel on their T300RS wheels, but PD just decided to "correct" a problem that never existed and they made the wheel feel completely numb. Even with FFB as its max setting the feedback you get is reduced by half of what it was just 2 days ago when the FFB was at 70%. If people were having problems with their T300RS wheels overheating, they need to manually turn down the FFB settings in the user control menu. There was plenty of range to work with to dial it back, but now that PD changed the settings on their own, they neutered the feel of the wheel and the user can no longer dial up the FFB to get back to what it was.

 

[newmedia_dev]

And I really wish I didn't have to complain about the game. Honestly, I hate how people complain that the game is too easy, or its too hard, or that it doesn't have a good single player story line. It's annoying to read about people constantly complaining about the game, but PD is doing this to themselves.

There was no reason to change the FFB settings for the T300RS but they did. No one was complaining about the feel on their T300RS wheels, but PD just decided to "correct" a problem that never existed and they made the wheel feel completely numb. Even with FFB as its max setting the feedback you get is reduced by half of what it was just 2 days ago when the FFB was at 70%. If people were having problems with their T300RS wheels overheating, they need to manually turn down the FFB settings in the user control menu. There was plenty of range to work with to dial it back, but now that PD changed the settings on their own, they neutered the feel of the wheel and the user can no longer dial up the FFB to get back to what it was.

They didn't make the change for specific wheels, they fixed a specific characteristic of the vibration oscillation calculation. Everything else feels the same (if not a fraction lighter) so up the in game torque 1 or 2

The rest is all exactly the same, in that you can if you want dial in the feel with the in game FFB sensitivity just without really gruff feedback patches.

Curbs are harder again, slip is slightly muted.

I'm not sure any of the updated FFB stuff affected belt or gear driven wheels I'm pretty sure it was done for DD wheels as it was a very specific issue.

 

[hawkeyez]

They didn't make the change for specific wheels, they fixed a specific characteristic of the vibration oscillation calculation. Everything else feels the same (if not a fraction lighter) so up the in game torque 1 or 2

The rest is all exactly the same, in that you can if you want dial in the feel with the in game FFB sensitivity just without really gruff feedback patches.

Curbs are harder again, slip is slightly muted.

I'm not sure any of the updated FFB stuff affected belt or gear driven wheels I'm pretty sure it was done for DD wheels as it was a very specific issue.

A friend has a T300RS, since the “tire scrub” update he’s been upset with PD, he adjusted it lighter and said ehh it’s better but that tire scrubbing just feels like the wheel is clipping it’s an odd sensation, then we got this last update and he’s had to resort to tweaking settings again but is happy the tire scrub vibration isn’t so extreme. I noticed they had something about that in the update notes specific to the T300RS.

And you’re roght, the change was probably a blanketed effect update, I also agree with Tommy D, they didn’t have to update to make adjustments for the T300RS, nobody that I know was complaining until the tire scrub update that is.

I think they’re just chasing their tail now. Hire a professional driver, buy up the five to ten wheels you can use with the game, have the professional driver drive a bunch of car classes and give input, adjust to their taste and deliver it. Then say that’s it, that’s our game, we had THIS GUY who’s a pro give input on how everything should feel, if you don’t like it, play a different game, we’ve got some of the best FFB out there. Of course this should have all been done before release.

On release the game was arcade. I complain, but at least it’s not so arcade like anymore. Who knows maybe they’re striving to be a full blown sim as far as physics and FFB goes for GT8. GT7 players are the Guinea pigs.

 

[newmedia_dev]

But here is the rub, I don't think they are factoring in different wheels, more they change the model and different wheels respond differently.

What is an absolute truth though is they made a change post Xmas that was causing some wheels mainly if not exclusively DD wheels to have potentially damaging behaviour.

They changed that, I don't know a lot about belt or gear driven wheels although I had a TGT2 for a long time it is not comparable to torque delivery to a DD wheel, so it's a little apples to oranges in on respect. But honestly I think they have a single algorithm and that's what we all use.