Gran Turismo Car Models Now Made in Three Months, Outsourced to India

[Samus]

As I say even if Kaz wanted them on PS5 I highly doubt they're even compatible with their current ray traced lighting engine. The premium models weren't, and they were supposed to be future proof.

If it turns out those actually weren't without timely reworking that meant none appeared in GTS at launch, the low poly single piece standards definitely won't be. Doubly so for the further improvements in PS5 tech.

Yeah its personal opinion of course. GTS isn't a main series entry so to me everything that did in no way relates to what I expect from GT7, other than scapes and any potential multiplayer offering. GTS is a spin off to me.

Time will tell.

Even if it was treated as a spin off, why wouldn't they include any premium car models in the game at launch if they could? Why did they only come later as updates, clearly modified and upgraded?

 

[MagpieRacer]

As I say even if Kaz wanted them on PS5 I highly doubt they're even compatible with their current ray traced lighting engine. The premium models weren't, and they were supposed to be future proof.

If it turns out those actually weren't without timely reworking that meant none appeared in GTS at launch, the low poly single piece standards definitely won't be. Doubly so for the further improvements in PS5 tech.


Even if it was treated as a spin off, why wouldn't they include any premium car models in the game at launch if they could? Why did they only come later as updates, clearly modified and upgraded?

Because its a spin off 💡. Why would you blow open your entire offering to a non main series game that was clearly aimed at being an online platform for organised racing. Wouldn't make sense. Would make GT7 a much harder sell if all the content was already available in GTS.

To say the premium models aren't compatible with the ray tracing tech is false. Its a GPU driven lighting system, nothing to do with models. Fairly sure Minecraft wasn't designed and futureproofed with ray tracing in mind and yet here we are with a ray trace enable Minecraft.

Anyway, whether they come or not who knows. I'd like to it see it happen and I'm sure there are others who would too. Only PD know what their intentions are and hopefully we will have more understanding of the offering tonight.

 

[Silver Arrows]

Kaz suggested it actually. So, yeah, if he doesn't want the work to go to waste. It's his game, he can do as he pleases.

Then he's an out of touch moron. But that's already been established for nearly a decade now, considering how many times he has lied, and tries to think his delusions of grandeur mean anything in the racing game space to anyone outside of GT fans.

 

[Samus]

Because its a spin off 💡. Why would you blow open your entire offering to a non main series game that was clearly aimed at being an online platform for organised racing. Wouldn't make sense. Would make GT7 a much harder sell if all the content was already available in GTS.

To say the premium models aren't compatible with the ray tracing tech is false. Its a GPU driven lighting system, nothing to do with models. Fairly sure Minecraft wasn't designed and futureproofed with ray tracing in mind and yet here we are with a ray trace enable Minecraft.

Anyway, whether they come or not who knows. I'd like to it see it happen and I'm sure there are others who would too. Only PD know what their intentions are and hopefully we will have more understanding of the offering tonight.

But it wasn't a spin off. It was literally the only game they released all generation, with four years of Dev time followed by two years of updates.

Maybe I'm misremembering but I'm sure it was said the premium cars weren't in GTS because they weren't compatible with the lighting engine but even if that is wrong, it's crazy to think they would discount every single one in favour of launching a game with a pitiful 137 cars, just because it wasn't a main title.

It's not "blowing you whole offering" when we're talking about cars people already had in GT5 and 6. We aren't talking about new models they kept away.

Again, Kaz made that statement in 2014, and that's a long time ago in Dev world, and he was talking about a PS4 game. He has said a lot of things over the years that have changed or not come true.

You're obviously entitled to your opinion but I really can't believe people actually want PS2 assets in a PS5 game.

 

[MagpieRacer]

But it wasn't a spin off. It was literally the only game they released all generation, with four years of Dev time followed by two years of updates.

Maybe I'm misremembering but I'm sure it was said the premium cars weren't in GTS because they weren't compatible with the lighting engine but even if that is wrong, it's crazy to think they would discount every single one in favour of launching a game with a pitiful 137 cars, just because it wasn't a main title.

It's not "blowing you whole offering" when we're talking about cars people already had in GT5 and 6. We aren't talking about new models they kept away.

Again, Kaz made that statement in 2014, and that's a long time ago in Dev world, and he was talking about a PS4 game. He has said a lot of things over the years that have changed or not come true.

You're obviously entitled to your opinion but I really can't believe people actually want PS2 assets in a PS5 game.

It was a spin off. If it wasnt a spin off it would have been called Gran Turismo 7. It wasn't, Gran Turismo 7 is coming soon and is the next main game in the series. The car list at its launch was designed to be more focussed for the online 'Sport' aspect the game focussed on. The Prologues, Concept, HD, there have been many spin odds that didn't feature all of the theoretical available content. GTS only grew the way it did due to GT7 being pushed back from a PS4 title to a PS5 title. Addition of a rudimentary single player, extra cars and circuits were just to appease the fanbase through the lack of a main series title this gen.

Again, other than Kaz' quote I'm not spinning any of this as fact (other than the spin off bit). Just my perception, my opinion and my expectations.

 

[ImaRobot]

Because its a spin off 💡. Why would you blow open your entire offering to a non main series game that was clearly aimed at being an online platform for organised racing. Wouldn't make sense. Would make GT7 a much harder sell if all the content was already available in GTS.

Because a bigger vehicle library would only serve to make the game bigger and better. The only logical reason I see to not include them all at once is because of the upfront cost of licensing, but even then, I hear that's not as significant as it used to be. Doesn't GTS have some classes that are absolutely lacking vehicles to actually race each other? Including a bigger library would only serve to make the BoP classes more lively and filled out.

How would it make it a harder sell point for GT7? I don't get it, you're making it out to be as if they'd just make a certain amount of content and then just stop completely for a whole iteration? It's very likely that no matter the content amount in GTS, that they would have continued to pursue a higher count regardless if the count was 300 from launch or 700 from launch.

To say the premium models aren't compatible with the ray tracing tech is false. Its a GPU driven lighting system, nothing to do with models. Fairly sure Minecraft wasn't designed and futureproofed with ray tracing in mind and yet here we are with a ray trace enable Minecraft.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-gran-turismo-sport-is-hdrs-killer-app
"GT Sport offers a remarkable level of detail in every facet of the presentation. The move to PlayStation 4 means that materials, textures and lighting are all amped up beyond what was previously possible. In making the leap to physically-based rendering, the game features more realistic surfaces and objects throughout its environments and across the lineup of cars. Textures are much sharper and more realistic as a result even up-close. The game retains a sense of scale that no other sim racer can quite match - the way its environments stretch out into the distance create the illusion of a large world."

I really don't think it's as simple as flipping a switch. Even the premium vehicle models from last gen had to be reworked to be able to function correctly with PBR IIRC, which is something that is current gen. I got in a big discussion with someone about this years back but I can't remember for the life of me who it was.

Anyway, whether they come or not who knows. I'd like to it see it happen and I'm sure there are others who would too. Only PD know what their intentions are and hopefully we will have more understanding of the offering tonight.

I don't think they'd start outsourcing their content to be made into premium vehicles for current gen technology if all they wanted to do was add in PS2 quality vehicles. Even if they do add them back into the game, they definitely wont be showing something with such crappy quality at such an event. If, and that's a humongous if, they do get added into the game, it's very likely something that would be kept on the hush as to not detract from the rest of the actual premium quality content.

 

[OHM_fusion]

As I say even if Kaz wanted them on PS5 I highly doubt they're even compatible with their current ray traced lighting engine. The premium models weren't, and they were supposed to be future proof.

If it turns out those actually weren't without timely reworking that meant none appeared in GTS at launch, the low poly single piece standards definitely won't be. Doubly so for the further improvements in PS5 tech.

To be clear a 3D model of any level of detail is "compatible" with ray tracing, that's not the issue. Quake 2 RTX still uses the same 3D models from the original release.

You can import a PS1 era model from GT1 into a ray traced lighting engine, but obviously it would not be worth it because the poly count just isn't there to achieve the desired level of realism.

It was obviously a design decision to drop standard cars, and thank god for that. To me it is still ridiculous they even did that in the first place. THey had no place in GT5, let alone GT7.

 

[Dave A]

Regarding the lighting engine discussion, a 3d model will compatible with any lighting redering in thoery, it's the game engine that might cause issues depending on the models format and compression etc. What I believe might happen with regards to lighting is it might not look as good with some lighting technologies as it will with others.

I don't think the previous models were ever incompatible with the games lighting, they just weren't optomised for it and optomisation is very important when it comes to making your assets look the best they can in whichever engine you are using. There may have been other issues with the models formats and compression and the game engine overall, but if we're talking about lighitng in isolation then it's the optomistation that matters.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Because a bigger vehicle library would only serve to make the game bigger and better. The only logical reason I see to not include them all at once is because of the upfront cost of licensing, but even then, I hear that's not as significant as it used to be. Doesn't GTS have some classes that are absolutely lacking vehicles to actually race each other? Including a bigger library would only serve to make the BoP classes more lively and filled out.

How would it make it a harder sell point for GT7? I don't get it, you're making it out to be as if they'd just make a certain amount of content and then just stop completely for a whole iteration? It's very likely that no matter the content amount in GTS, that they would have continued to pursue a higher count regardless if the count was 300 from launch or 700 from launch.


https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-gran-turismo-sport-is-hdrs-killer-app
"GT Sport offers a remarkable level of detail in every facet of the presentation. The move to PlayStation 4 means that materials, textures and lighting are all amped up beyond what was previously possible. In making the leap to physically-based rendering, the game features more realistic surfaces and objects throughout its environments and across the lineup of cars. Textures are much sharper and more realistic as a result even up-close. The game retains a sense of scale that no other sim racer can quite match - the way its environments stretch out into the distance create the illusion of a large world."

I really don't think it's as simple as flipping a switch. Even the premium vehicle models from last gen had to be reworked to be able to function correctly with PBR IIRC, which is something that is current gen. I got in a big discussion with someone about this years back but I can't remember for the life of me who it was.


I don't think they'd start outsourcing their content to be made into premium vehicles for current gen technology if all they wanted to do was add in PS2 quality vehicles. Even if they do add them back into the game, they definitely wont be showing something with such crappy quality at such an event. If, and that's a humongous if, they do get added into the game, it's very likely something that would be kept on the hush as to not detract from the rest of the actual premium quality content.

I wouldnt expect them to show 'standard' content, however, if they start bounding out numbers like 1000+ cars 50+ locations etc, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to guess how they get to those numbers.

It would make GT7 and PS5 a harder sell because if your just release all the content you have as you get it, that reduces the inclination of people to buy the next game if its just 99% content you already have plus a fancy single player. Look at pCars 3 for an example of how that can backfire.

GT Sports big thing was its online service and online competition. Single player and stuff that makes Gran Turismo, well, Gran Turismo, were either after thoughts (GT Mode for example) or non existent (proper upgrading, proper GT Mode etc). Shoving all available content into it eouldnt suddenly make it GT7, so why bother. Why ruin the big reveal and the next gen hero.

Not entirely sure what part of the Eurogamer quote I should be focussed on? No one said anything about flipping a switch, of course there would need to be developmental tweaks but not to the extent that all the modelling content would suddenly become incompatible, that was the point I was making. Games that now support ray tracing weren't rebuilt and remodelled just for that purpose.

 

[Silver Arrows]

I find it funny how the people that stomp up and down saying that GT Sport was a spin off don't want to admit that this was the only game that Polyphony worked on, as Samus mentioned, and that really, once Polyphony knew that they were hemorrhaging sales because people weren't interested in an effectively online only racing game, and the only single player content being one off races and a weak Arcade Mode, that's when they began to add on an ersatz single player suite that also wasn't very good. So by that margin, no it doesn't matter if it was a spin off or not. It was the only GT game worked on this generation, and as such, the design principles that were put into GT Sport can be criticized.

You're obviously entitled to your opinion but I really can't believe people actually want PS2 assets in a PS5 game.

The hilarious part is that we have people in this very thread bagging on Forza for having a (small amount, but really it should be none) car models from the sixth generation. I guarantee you that if that came into being, this forum would be having Olympic level mental gymnastic competitions to justify adding up-rez'ed PS2 models in order to inflate the car list, and confirm that Kaz can literally get away with anything, no matter how asinine or moronic it may be, while bludgeoning other developers (Specifically, Turn 10 and Forza) for doing the same thing, often times *less* then how Kaz or PD operate with regards to it. May I remind people that GT Sport wasn't supposed to have microtransactions, and yet they added them slyly, and this forum was having conniptions for Forza 7 supposedly having lootboxes, when it didn't?

 

[sesven]

"Kaz's game and he does as he pleases."

Genuine question, would Sony even allow PS2 era assets on a PS5 game?

"Introducing next gen" *video of a pixelated Suzuki Alto Works shows on press conference screen*

 

[Castrol96]

Unfortunately, the trees wouldn't change. I can't believe there are 2d spinning trees at Trial Mountain on PS5...

One of the reasons I don't want to get GT7 anymore.

 

[Silver Arrows]

"Kaz's game and he does as he pleases."

Genuine question, would Sony even allow PS2 era assets on a PS5 game?

"Introducing next gen" *video of a pixelated Suzuki Alto Works shows on press conference screen*

Considering how Kaz is on the Playstation board, and he gets a good amount of cache as one of the few Japanese first party studios Playstation has as they've shifted to having most of their first parties in the West, I think they allow him to do whatever.

And besides, you can very easily hide those types of assets from gameplay demos and the like. Let it be a surprise. For The Players, after all.

 

[MagpieRacer]

"Kaz's game and he does as he pleases."

Genuine question, would Sony even allow PS2 era assets on a PS5 game?

"Introducing next gen" *video of a pixelated Suzuki Alto Works shows on press conference screen*

This was my argument as to whether they made it or not. Sony could simply overrule him. If the choice is his alone then they go in.

Also the pixilated Alto is such a bad reference point, it was updated in GT6 and with some light work and a new lighting engine I bet noone here could tell it was the same model.

Besides, how do we know this new outsourcing method isn't to spruce up the standards to a acceptable level?

 

[ImaRobot]

It would make GT7 and PS5 a harder sell because if your just release all the content you have as you get it, that reduces the inclination of people to buy the next game if its just 99% content you already have plus a fancy single player. Look at pCars 3 for an example of how that can backfire.

The only way that would make sense is if they released all the content they have on GTS, and never made anything again at all for the next iteration. And that's a huge stretch even then. I can't recall any game that does that in this genre.

GT Sports big thing was its online service and online competition. Single player and stuff that makes Gran Turismo, well, Gran Turismo, were either after thoughts (GT Mode for example) or non existent (proper upgrading, proper GT Mode etc). Shoving all available content into it eouldnt suddenly make it GT7, so why bother. Why ruin the big reveal and the next gen hero.

Yes, but that doesn't detract form what I said. What they're literally doing, and have been since release, is shoving all available content for free- They're already "bothering" with that notion. Adding more content doesn't automatically mean they're trying to make it GT7, it just means they're adding content as it becomes available.

Not entirely sure what part of the Eurogamer quote I should be focussed on? No one said anything about flipping a switch, of course there would need to be developmental tweaks but not to the extent that all the modelling content would suddenly become incompatible, that was the point I was making. Games that now support ray tracing weren't rebuilt and remodelled just for that purpose.

No, that was just a reference to you making it sound very easy, as if flipping a switch. Although what happened there is we're talking about two different things, that was my fault. I was not necessarily talking about ray-tracing, but more so PBR, and how how all last gen PREMIUM cars had to be reworked for that, so it would make sense that you just can't throw those standard cars in game as is without needing a good amount extra work if even the premiums have to go through reworks. IIRC, weren't the semi-premium reworks just as time consuming? I can't recall correctly, but even those didn't even make it into the game.

There's no way they're just going to not rework/model these standards with all the new technology that has come in, and with the amount of work they'd have to do to those premiums to even get them acceptable in it's absolutely lowest form, you might as well just start making premiums instead.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Like I say its my perception and opinion. My question back to you, is how do we know for an absolute fact that GTS is getting all the content they have available?

 

[ImaRobot]

Like I say its my perception and opinion. My question back to you, is how do we know for an absolute fact that GTS is getting all the content they have available?

It's fine that it's your opinion, no need to state it as such as if it's an end-all- we're just discussing.

You're asking a question that neither of us can answer, one that absolutely no one in the world can answer for you. However, we've gotten a wealth of free content, if anything that leans more towards my opinion that they're releasing content as it becomes available. Of course development stops eventually and then they finally start working towards the next product, but that doesn't take away from that.

 

[sesven]

Considering how Kaz is on the Playstation board, and he gets a good amount of cache as one of the few Japanese first party studios Playstation has as they've shifted to having most of their first parties in the West, I think they allow him to do whatever.

And besides, you can very easily hide those types of assets from gameplay demos and the like. Let it be a surprise. For The Players, after all.

Obviously I was being facetious, they will show their best content in the trailers haha. But still, if PS2 content is in there - players will find it, it will become public and the Xbox fans will have a heyday.

As for Kaz doing whatever he wants, I think it's realistic to say even he has limits. Regardless of clout in the industry.

 

[ImaRobot]

Obviously I was being facetious, they will show their best content in the trailers haha. But still, if PS2 content is in there - players will find it, it will become public and the Xbox fans will have a heyday.

As for Kaz doing whatever he wants, I think it's realistic to say even he has limits. Regardless of clout in the industry.

Racing game fans*. Other racing games exist besides Forza and Microsoft owned products. It would make sense too, considering how some are so damning of other games, until it happens to their game of choice.

 

[Ddkklop]

Then he's an out of touch moron. But that's already been established for nearly a decade now, considering how many times he has lied, and tries to think his delusions of grandeur mean anything in the racing game space to anyone outside of GT fans.

The only moron is you, a guy that comes to GT forums only to say something negative. And now even offensive. Grow up.

 

[ImaRobot]

The only moron is you, a guy that comes to GT forums only to say something negative. And now even offensive. Grow up.

As overly aggressive as the post was, you're getting mad at someone for insulting someone you don't know at all. There's no prerequisite on this forum stating that you're only allowed to post praise.

 

[Ddkklop]

you're getting mad at someone for insulting someone you don't know at all

Don't worry, I am not mad. But I find it strange how he always comments something negative everytime I see his comments. And now he's even adding insults. So I wanted to give him some response.

 

[Silver Arrows]

The only moron is you, a guy that comes to GT forums only to say something negative. And now even offensive. Grow up.

Free forum dude, unless Jordan or any of the admins/moderators believe my statements are to be breaking the rules (which so far, they haven't)

And I mean, of course what I post is negative. I don't have a very high estimation of either Kaz/Polyphony, or GT as a whole because the past three games have had a litany of problems that seemingly aren't being addressed or fixed, and get paved over by people like this subsection of the forum who treat Kaz and PD like golden gods, for whatever reason, and excuse him for everything he does.

So if you want to whine about the content of my posts, feel free to send it to the moderators instead and let them decide, but for now, I will continue to point out the problems of GT as it stands now, and especially the hypocrisy of this forum when it comes to specific topics, and how it is handled between Polyphony, and everyone else, specifically Forza and Turn 10.

 

[Faultier]

Here is a shot of Forza 7 and a shot of Driveclub, which, without context, look completely unrelated.

However they have something in common. Both cars were modelled by GlassEgg, a popular outsourcing studio for 3D vehicle assets. Both games (besides Forza's lingering 6th-gen models) are known for their model accuracy. I haven't seen a single instance of someone singling out Forza's 919 or Driveclub's CX-75 as bad quality - do you see what I'm getting at here?

Additionally, I sincerely doubt anybody would've noticed any difference in quality between GTS' 993 Carrera and TRD Tundra and PD's in-house models. The point I'm trying to make here is that we need to end the automatic judgement of "outsourcing = bad". The contracting devs still have control over the final product and the outsourcing studio will without a doubt always be given a spec that they must fit (poly budgets for each LOD level, key areas most likely to be seen by players, and even potential corrections from the manufacturers). Any discrepancies between games isn't automatically down to outsourcing vs in-house but rather the differences in tolerances between development studios and their licencing agreements.

great

 

[ImaRobot]

Only PD know what their intentions are and hopefully we will have more understanding of the offering tonight.

I guess the world will never know .

 

[ShiftingGears]

Today I learnt that if GT7 was called GT Sport 2, then it would be a spin off.

 

[Rangeraus]

personally I think this is bad, outsourcing you lose quality, I hope PD are doing some finishing touches to the models.

In my experience, if outsourcing is done correctly, then there should not be any loss of quality.

A lot of that responsibility falls on the outsourcing company (i.e. PD) to establish the requirements/training/procedures for the work to be completed. Which can be difficult.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I'm gonna just put it out there here for all to see and say GT7 will have 2000 cars at launch.

Kaz has said a few times, in relation to GT7, that he sees no reason to discard the standard cars as so many cars have their own unique fans and would like to hold on to the archive of cars they have built.

"I doubt that we'll be throwing away the standard cars," said Yamauchi. "Each car has its own fans. So I think we'll hang on to the archive. In the meanwhile, some of those cars we may be able to make into Premium cars as they become available - but basically we're more focussed on increasing the number of premium cars."

 

[Tornado]

Because its a spin off 💡.

It was a spin off. If it wasnt a spin off it would have been called Gran Turismo 7. It wasn't,

But it's not. It wasn't released as such. It wasn't advertised as such. It was the entirety of PD's output for seven years, plus however long they had been working on it while also rushing to crap out GT6 before Christmas 2013. It wasn't supported after launch as such, not did the pie in the sky promises PD. made about post-launch support suggest it was. It certainly wasn't rabidly defended as such on this forum prior to this year.




Plus, since we're quote mining things Kaz said half a decade ago to once again entertain the notion that assets that looked awful and were torn to pieces ten years ago would be reused over a decade later, no less than Kaz himself said that Gran Turismo Sport was the next full game in the series and specifically defended not calling it GT7:

"The reason we called it Gran Turismo Sport was that we really wanted to incorporate the FIA events," explained Gran Turismo creator Kazunori Yamauchi.

"Thinking about it now, yeah, we could have called it Gran Turismo 7. But it's got so many features, we wanted it to be different.

Twice:

“GT SPORT is a regular title of the GT Series. The gaming contents is so ample that you can consider it as ”Gran Turismo 7“. It is titled ” GT Sport“ because the “Sport Mode” of the game is important. If I have to change a statement，maybe “Gran Turismo 7 Sport” is more correct name.”

Thrice:

“For me, Gran Turismo Sport is Gran Turismo 7. Gran Turismo Sport is something that marks the beginning of a new generation or era. When you consider Gran Turismo 1-6 as the first era, GT Sport marks a new generation moving forward.”

 

[05XR8]

Which would make Gran Turismo 7 a continuation of Gran Turismo Sport. Instead of a second disc, it's more more like a second hard drive.